Guild Wars 2

There is no other weapon in the game with a more horrible #1,than the Necromancer Axe.

Sure the vulnerability adds to the theme of damage support & de-buffing which is what the necromancer is supposed to be about, but the way rending claws performs right now is absolutely terrible and it is the only weapon #1 skill ever to have a 1, 2 effect (no 3rd chain attack). I applaud you Anet for making it a unique skill, but it just isn’t doing it.

Really for the supposed main power weapon does not justify the distance at what damage it can do. 600 range? I may as well get my dagger out. Yet anything other profession can sit comfortably at 900+ range with their ranged weapons.

Moving the Axe trait around isn’t going to solve the problem either.

Either increase the range or change the #1.

/rant over.

/agree.

Plus, my 1 cent: please, don’t change axe #1 to be like attack-with-low-dmg → attack-with-a-bit-more → attack-harder-&-vuln

While I agree the 600 range is a bit short, the axe is a ranged weapon. So the lack of an attack chain is not unusual at all. Ranged attack chains are the exception, not the norm (only example I know of is mesmer scepter).

It is indeed a bit underwhelming though, but buffing it would probably hurt the usefulness of the dagger (which still lacks a cleave).

If they just increased the rate of attack it would be a MUCH more useful weapon.

NeryK.5301:

While I agree the 600 range is a bit short, the axe is a ranged weapon. So the lack of an attack chain is not unusual at all. Ranged attack chains are the exception, not the norm (only example I know of is mesmer scepter).

It is indeed a bit underwhelming though, but buffing it would probably hurt the usefulness of the dagger (which still lacks a cleave).

Necro scepter has a chain.

Rennoko.5731:

NeryK.5301:

While I agree the 600 range is a bit short, the axe is a ranged weapon. So the lack of an attack chain is not unusual at all. Ranged attack chains are the exception, not the norm (only example I know of is mesmer scepter).

It is indeed a bit underwhelming though, but buffing it would probably hurt the usefulness of the dagger (which still lacks a cleave).

Necro scepter has a chain.

Indeed it does ! So that’s two.
I’ve been playing with power builds for so long it slipped my mind.

Either a tine bit faster and a bit of aoe . But it should never be stronger than dagger 1 on vs a single target.

Axe 1 is fine. It gives me some free stacks of Vuln on stuff while I’m waiting for Axe 2 to come off cooldown or for DS to come off cooldown. And it hits so fast it’s the only weapon I’d ever think of putting a Sigil of Frailty on (I know, L2P).

PinCushion.7390:

<shrug>

And it hits so fast

…Seriously? 2 hits every 3/4 of a second…that is slug speed compared to daggers 4 hits in roughly 1/2 second…

IMO, if is going to be considered a ranged weapon, it needs to have more range; 900 would suffice. If ANet wants it to be used more as a close range “deterrent” weapon, it needs to at very least cleave in a cone.

PinCushion.7390:

<shrug>

Axe 1 is fine. It gives me some free stacks of Vuln on stuff while I’m waiting for Axe 2 to come off cooldown or for DS to come off cooldown. And it hits so fast it’s the only weapon I’d ever think of putting a Sigil of Frailty on (I know, L2P).

Actually it’s not even good for that.It has neither good dmg nor good vuln stacking.
Everything else in our arsenal is better than axe1 while waiting for axe2.
Even staff1 is a better auto which is slow as hell, at least it has aoe capabilities.

The only time I use axe 1 is when I’m solo farming and I’m too lazy to swap to dagger if Axe 2 doesn’t kill the target… Other than that, never. Ever.

Axe Necro range is fine …. Ranger axe is also 600. Use a scepter if you want more range.

Except Axe on the ranger works because #1 bounces, and the others cleave & chill. The AOE makes it work well as a mid-range weapon.

What do we get? One AOE on a 15 sec cd (12 sec at best with the trait), don’t get me wrong unholy feast is one of my favourite weapon skills but just that by itself is not enough.

The Axe auto should cleave. That would pretty neatly fix it.

Farming Flats.5370:

Axe Necro range is fine …. Ranger axe is also 600. Use a scepter if you want more range.

Ranger axe is 900 actually.

I’m afraid the Necro Axe autoattack issue is a bit more complicated than it being 600 range.

If it was a normal projectile weapon, 600 range would be somewhat fine. Why? Let me explain.

Most projectile weapons travel far beyond their autoattack range, Necro staff for example has 1200 autoattack range, but can easily hit targets at 1500+ range, if you keep hitting your auto button. This is effectively a hidden range increase for projectile weapons.

Necro Axe and Scepter behave differently, they are “hitscan”. They check if the target is in range or not, and then deal their damage – or don’t.
In case of the Scepter the difference is negligible. Ranger bow has 900 range and has projectiles that travel a bit past that range. While Necro Scepter has a static 900 range, but lacks a travel time. This gives Rangers a bit more range and Necros a more reliable autoattack with immunity to projectile reflection.

So, if a Ranger shoots an Arrow at 900 range, but the target moves backward, it will still hit at 1000 travel range, he might even hit a different target if the original target moves way out of range.

But Necro Axe basically lacks both advantages. At 600 range the instant travel time is meaningless since projectiles hardly ever miss at that range, and it obviously lacks the bonus range projectiles have.

And on top of all those issues, all other ranged weapons outclass Necro Axe range. Even most enhanced-range melee attacks (gapclosers etc.) have 600 or more range, a few have 450.

Farming Flats.5370:

Axe Necro range is fine …. Ranger axe is also 600. Use a scepter if you want more range.

Apples and oranges bro. Axe on a necro is a power weapon…scepter is a condition weapon. I believe the prevailing sentiment on axe is that it should be a melee weapon…not a ranged one. The reason there is even any discussion about its range is thakittens not doing a good enough job at either. Range so short that you may as well be in melee and complete lack of melee cleave…which is essential to efficient melee combat in this game.

No. Make axe 900 range. Increase the auto damage.

Move the life force generation to the axe to the auto. Life force generation on every necro weapon should be on their auto. Same for scepter.

Scepter and axe have horrible life force generation because all their life force can be negated by avoiding a single attack.

Necro power weapons in general need help. More tankiness/utility, and dagger needs to cleave. Dagger is the melee weapon, axe should be the ranged weapon.

Axe makes no sense to be at 900 range. It needs work, but that isn’t increasing the range.

Of course it makes sense, as much sense as a mesmer flinging beams through his greatsword.

The power necro needs a ranged weapon so something like an engineer parking beyond 600 range or a thief with shortbow just doesn’t demolish you from beyond 600 range and there’s nothing you can do about it.

All you need to do to kill a power necro if you aren’t a D/P thief is to just sit beyond 600 range, dodge dark path, dodge dark pact, and you’re set.

Kitedyou.1720:

PinCushion.7390:

<shrug>

And it hits so fast

…Seriously? 2 hits every 3/4 of a second…that is slug speed compared to daggers 4 hits in roughly 1/2 second…

You can’t seriously believe that the dagger 1 chain completes in 1/2 a second.

Alright, as for the actual thread: Axe currently makes more sense at 600 range: it’s a ‘near-melee’ option, so you’re close, but you don’t have to literally stick to your target like with dagger.

I honestly think they could afford to up the damage. IIRC, the direct-damage of the scepter 1 chain matches (exceeds?) the damage of axe 1, while having 300 more range and applying some fundamental conditions.

Edit: Axe isn’t a keep-away weapon, like Ranger longbow or Mesmer greatsword. It’s a chasing weapon.

Edit2: Nevermind, Axe still does more direct damage if you ignore the conditions inflicted by both weapons. Not so sure now if they should up it’s damage. I think so, but I need to do a more stringent examination.

I’ve been asking this for the longest time. The reason why it feels wonky compared to other weapons is because they actually added the channeling to it if I remember, it was either that or . In the early stages of the game it was just pretty sick, just endless hacking away back and forth. Then suddenly in BWE3.. BAM gets hit hard and becomes kinda cruddy.

here we go, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ2RNw_1Xr8

From 600 to 900 is little gain for me, however, what I would like to see is a cleave on Axe, dagger is supposed to be single target weapon, so it is fine, however the animation on Axe makes it easy to make it cleave. A huge slash going across the screen, how can that not cleave? As for damage, if they increase the axe autoattack damage by like 10%, you will do a maximum of 1500, which is fine considering the highest autoattack I’ve seen was around 1200.

Zenith.7301:

Of course it makes sense, as much sense as a mesmer flinging beams through his greatsword.

The power necro needs a ranged weapon so something like an engineer parking beyond 600 range or a thief with shortbow just doesn’t demolish you from beyond 600 range and there’s nothing you can do about it.

All you need to do to kill a power necro if you aren’t a D/P thief is to just sit beyond 600 range, dodge dark path, dodge dark pact, and you’re set.

No, it doesn’t make sense with the kit. If they increase the range, it stays as a crappy auto attack, and frankly is a pitiful “buff” to the builds that get the most use out of it; tanky builds and minions builds. If power necros need longer range, give it to them some other way.

Axe damage would be quite high as a 900 range power weapon. 600 range is a problem because you need to get on point to hit their backline, effectively making you a melee guy with ranged damage.

Softspoken.2410:

Alright, as for the actual thread: Axe currently makes more sense at 600 range: it’s a ‘near-melee’ option, so you’re close, but you don’t have to literally stick to your target like with dagger.

I honestly think they could afford to up the damage. IIRC, the direct-damage of the scepter 1 chain matches (exceeds?) the damage of axe 1, while having 300 more range and applying some fundamental conditions.

Edit: Axe isn’t a keep-away weapon, like Ranger longbow or Mesmer greatsword. It’s a chasing weapon.

Edit2: Nevermind, Axe still does more direct damage if you ignore the conditions inflicted by both weapons. Not so sure now if they should up it’s damage. I think so, but I need to do a more stringent examination.

I believe someone did some fairly extensive testing on Axe vs Scepter in a power build quite some time ago (as in last year) and that showed the scepter doing more total damage then the axe even at 0 condition damage.

Just for the heck of if I went to the mist just and with no traits allocated but with zerker ammy and divinity runes it took ~34 seconds to kill the heavy golem using axe auto (no #2) and ~30 seconds just with scepter auto.

Clearly that could do with more extensive testing but still, axe is still under performing for a power weapon which is a shame because I really like axe. But as someone else said life force gain should really be moved to the auto. I personally don’t mind the 600 range either, would 900 be nice, well yes but I’d much rather see the power of it getting boosted and/or cleave being added.

Gutbuster.8745:

Softspoken.2410:

Alright, as for the actual thread: Axe currently makes more sense at 600 range: it’s a ‘near-melee’ option, so you’re close, but you don’t have to literally stick to your target like with dagger.

I honestly think they could afford to up the damage. IIRC, the direct-damage of the scepter 1 chain matches (exceeds?) the damage of axe 1, while having 300 more range and applying some fundamental conditions.

Edit: Axe isn’t a keep-away weapon, like Ranger longbow or Mesmer greatsword. It’s a chasing weapon.

Edit2: Nevermind, Axe still does more direct damage if you ignore the conditions inflicted by both weapons. Not so sure now if they should up it’s damage. I think so, but I need to do a more stringent examination.

I believe someone did some fairly extensive testing on Axe vs Scepter in a power build quite some time ago (as in last year) and that showed the scepter doing more total damage then the axe even at 0 condition damage.

Just for the heck of if I went to the mist just and with no traits allocated but with zerker ammy and divinity runes it took ~34 seconds to kill the heavy golem using axe auto (no #2) and ~30 seconds just with scepter auto.

Clearly that could do with more extensive testing but still, axe is still under performing for a power weapon which is a shame because I really like axe. But as someone else said life force gain should really be moved to the auto. I personally don’t mind the 600 range either, would 900 be nice, well yes but I’d much rather see the power of it getting boosted and/or cleave being added.

That’s a result of base condition damage being so high relative to scaling. Axe definitely does not underperform as a power weapon in terms of dps. Unless you’re comparing it to melee range options.

I see what you’re saying and I should’ve been a bit more clear in what part of my point was. Which is, in that case the axe’s role has to be better defined because right now it’s neither a proper range weapon, nor a proper power melee weapon.

Scepter in a power build actually offers 300 additional range and damage wise it’ll be similar.

As I said, I do like the axe but I’ve also had this feeling since release that something is missing so I’m all for improving it in any way.

I think I see what you mean now. The damage is too low for a 600 range weapon. I agree with that for sure. There are multiple ways to fix that, and your preference is a damage buff, which is obviously reasonable but I think still leaves it in an awkward spot for pvp. You can’t give a 600 range weapon melee damage, but a 600 range power weapon is always going to force you to position yourself on the front line.

If another chain was added to #1 and it was an frontal wave aoe attack with either chill/cripple, along with #2 cleaving it would be acceptable.

Yeah, it sucks big time.

Nothing like waiting for ghastly claws to come off timer, then the guy you are tracking dodges the chain, then it’s back to that horrid auto attack.

The thing I’m wondering about is why it is everyone is focused on the axes auto-attack when that is the least used weapon skill whenever I run a power necro.

Using Axe/Focus and Dagger/Warhorn, whenever I’m at range the only time I ever use Axe #1 is when everything else is on cooldown. That isn’t very often, since Ghastly Claws is on a 6.4 second cooldown with Axe Mastery. What I’ll do is use Focus #4, then focus #5, then ghastly claws, then I pop over to Dagger/Warhorn and use Dagger #3 then Dagger #2, then I’ll pop into vr for awhile, then swap back to use Ghastly Claws and focus skills again.

Only when I have to keep at range does the axe ever have to use the auto attack, and that is mostly in PVE. The vulnerability stacking and damage are alright, but in the end my main source of damage comes from DS and firing off Ghastly Claws every 6 seconds. My rotation commonly involves Ghastly Claws – DS – Ghastly Claws – Other things – repeat.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

The thing I’m wondering about is why it is everyone is focused on the axes auto-attack when that is the least used weapon skill whenever I run a power necro.

Using Axe/Focus and Dagger/Warhorn, whenever I’m at range the only time I ever use Axe #1 is when everything else is on cooldown. That isn’t very often, since Ghastly Claws is on a 6.4 second cooldown with Axe Mastery. What I’ll do is use Focus #4, then focus #5, then ghastly claws, then I pop over to Dagger/Warhorn and use Dagger #3 then Dagger #2, then I’ll pop into vr for awhile, then swap back to use Ghastly Claws and focus skills again.

Only when I have to keep at range does the axe ever have to use the auto attack, and that is mostly in PVE. The vulnerability stacking and damage are alright, but in the end my main source of damage comes from DS and firing off Ghastly Claws every 6 seconds. My rotation commonly involves Ghastly Claws – DS – Ghastly Claws – Other things – repeat.

That’s the spirit! If your whole weapon’s great except for the autoattack, don’t autoattack. The necro has very good options for the downtime on the axe (swap to dagger or death shroud). Or, from a pve perspective, just take well of suffering and /laugh while everything melts before your eyes.
Power necros are great now. Don’t overbuff things that are in a good spot.

Bean Muncher.5197:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

The thing I’m wondering about is why it is everyone is focused on the axes auto-attack when that is the least used weapon skill whenever I run a power necro.

Using Axe/Focus and Dagger/Warhorn, whenever I’m at range the only time I ever use Axe #1 is when everything else is on cooldown. That isn’t very often, since Ghastly Claws is on a 6.4 second cooldown with Axe Mastery. What I’ll do is use Focus #4, then focus #5, then ghastly claws, then I pop over to Dagger/Warhorn and use Dagger #3 then Dagger #2, then I’ll pop into vr for awhile, then swap back to use Ghastly Claws and focus skills again.

Only when I have to keep at range does the axe ever have to use the auto attack, and that is mostly in PVE. The vulnerability stacking and damage are alright, but in the end my main source of damage comes from DS and firing off Ghastly Claws every 6 seconds. My rotation commonly involves Ghastly Claws – DS – Ghastly Claws – Other things – repeat.

That’s the spirit! If your whole weapon’s great except for the autoattack, don’t autoattack. The necro has very good options for the downtime on the axe (swap to dagger or death shroud). Or, from a pve perspective, just take well of suffering and /laugh while everything melts before your eyes.
Power necros are great now. Don’t overbuff things that are in a good spot.

Hmm interesting. Then by your.knowledge remove axe auto attack since its useless.

I use to think range was a problem but 600 makes sinces.
Give axe #1 cripple or chill also and that eill fix you problem. As some one said axe is a chasing weapon right now dagger does a better chance of catching some one. with chill orcriple ur target will move slow increasing your damage before they r upon you ( with will happen)
Thats an easy and simple fix

I agree with Arachnid for the most part that, while the AA is fairly poor, the Axe as a whole is in a good place, but, thats not to say it can’t still be improved to make the AA useful as well as the other abilities.

My personal request would be to turn it into a cleave, not nessecarily because thats the best change, but just because I miss having a cleave after playing my other characters and, of the weapons we have, Axe seems to make more sense than any others to be cleaving :P

Though the cripple/chill is nice to, to fufill its role as a ‘chasing’ weapon, especially the Chill as that would also have PvE utility to slow down the mobs somewhat in their attacks.

I don’t think conditions need to be added to it. If you remove vulnerability (I highly doubt they will allow it to stack two conditions at once) then it really hurts its viability as an MM weapon, which is one of its best uses right now. They could put LF gain on it, increase the damage, plenty of things that don’t involve hurting its viability (it could really use LF gain, imo).

I think that it just needs 1% or 2% Life Force generation and some extra damage.

As for cleave I don’t think we need that so badly that we can’t wait until Anet starts adding Weapons to Professions some day.
Necro already has so much AoE anyway.

Bhawb.7408:

Zenith.7301:

Of course it makes sense, as much sense as a mesmer flinging beams through his greatsword.

The power necro needs a ranged weapon so something like an engineer parking beyond 600 range or a thief with shortbow just doesn’t demolish you from beyond 600 range and there’s nothing you can do about it.

All you need to do to kill a power necro if you aren’t a D/P thief is to just sit beyond 600 range, dodge dark path, dodge dark pact, and you’re set.

No, it doesn’t make sense with the kit. If they increase the range, it stays as a crappy auto attack, and frankly is a pitiful “buff” to the builds that get the most use out of it; tanky builds and minions builds. If power necros need longer range, give it to them some other way.

Axe is not a tank weapon. If you call having retal a tank weapon then I don’t know what to tell you. In berserker my axe auto crits for 1.3k a pop, or about 2.6k an auto. It’s not that terrible.

Most importantly, I get 900 range ghastly claws that people can’t simply run out of.

I run axe in wvw and it sure as hell does not involve minions as they are garbage outside spvp.

I didn’t call it a tank weapon, I said its best place right now is tanky builds, completely different things. You can use axe wherever you want, but Axe’s most common and useful uses are tanky builds, minion builds, and in PvE berzerker builds. Scepter can be used in a power build, that doesn’t make it a power build weapon or make its best use as a power weapon.

Bhawb.7408:

I didn’t call it a tank weapon, I said its best place right now is tanky builds, completely different things. You can use axe wherever you want, but Axe’s most common and useful uses are tanky builds, minion builds, and in PvE berzerker builds. Scepter can be used in a power build, that doesn’t make it a power build weapon or make its best use as a power weapon.

That makes no sense. Axe is your power ranged weapon. You have no other options. Its current weakness is range. You can buff the auto however much you want and it won’t change the fact that anyone with a ranged weapon who dodges your 25 sec cd dark pact will demolish you.

Axe functions perfectly fine in a wvw skirmish berserker power build. I don’t get how you can say it belongs to tanky builds when the staff is useless on a power build, and so is the scepter.

Zenith.7301:

That makes no sense. Axe is your power ranged weapon. You have no other options.

Dagger? DS#1?

The weapon its a kittening axe! It must bleed the target at least.
Put a chain skill or something.

Its the most useless aa of all necro’s weapons, for sure somethin must be done

The range is fine. All it needs is a cleave.

… Well, that and some better looking skins. Meat cleaver anybody?

First the “staff is useless on a power build”.
AA go’s thru a line, doing around the same dam as axe AA, but to all the targets. Marks are always useful. But, most importantly, swapping from Axe or Dagger for DeathShroud is going to get you ~100 more dam per hit.

Ok, the Axe issue’s…
Think the idea is:
Necro’s use blunt weapons. That’s why we don’t cleave.
Necro’s like to be up close and personal. Oh also blar blar about attrition & master of poisons.

So, why is our scepter making blood come out from range, and not our close range scratchy axe? Visually the effects look more like bleed inducing attacks.

How come we can make the axe float & spin, and the legendary dagger get’s ‘force throw starwars effects’ but the dagger is only poke range?

Axe #1 is crap, so just don’t use it. Isn’t really a ‘fix’.
Axe #2 needing to hit to gen the lifefoce is a bit lame, not just from dodge/roll but also even in a lag spike it likes to DPS the air giving no benefit and going on CD.

There’s little fix’s like, make it have more range/do more damage/attack faster.
The LifeForce should either be moved onto #1 or always give it on #2 hit or fail.

I’d personally love to see, a combo finisher!
Why not have the different attacks have diff range? Dagger can still do all but it’s auto-attacks from range.

Vex.7486:

There is no other weapon in the game with a more horrible #1,than the Necromancer Axe.

Ranger Longbow #1

Antisceptic.9174:

Vex.7486:

There is no other weapon in the game with a more horrible #1,than the Necromancer Axe.

Ranger Longbow #1

Except according to this http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Long_Range_Shot you have ridiculously long range on that to justify it. I don’t play a ranger but just looking at that, along with Projectile finisher and a damage modifier i think Ranger Longbow is in a better position than the Necro Axe.

If they would make Axe #2 an aoe skill I wouldn’t mind the horrid #1.

Why not something that gives a lot of fun options for build synergy…

10 or 20% combo finisher? Projectile already attached to staff. How about whirl.

20% Whirl Finisher

Lots of possibilities: Wells (dark/light), Spectral Wall (ethereal), Poison Cloud (poison).

I think the key is to propose changes that aren’t too drastic – is this a good fit?

Edit: Just checked and Bweaty also posted this. I am not alone!

Vex.7486:

There is no other weapon in the game with a more horrible #1,than the Necromancer Axe.

flamestrike disagrees