Guild Wars 2

Hey, guys. It’s Leman.

So, lately I’ve been testing some specs in a rather competitive environment because I was bored of Terror and Power specs.

First thing that came to my mind was making a celestial utility spec with axe+focus. As anyone can imagine, it was an absolute disaster. I headed to Blowout Central also known as Unranked Arena and tried the build. Still won the matches, but using mostly staff and death shroud.

1. Axe auto is really bad because of different reasons while facing different professions. Against warriors and eles, the damage is really low. Agains thieves, you can’t hit them porting and dodging around. Same vs mesmers. An off-guard is going to burst you down before you swing it 5 times. Generally a very underwhelming experience.
2. Axe#2 is good for life force generation, but I’m yet to see someone eat the whole channel. The attack breaks often due to people porting around and LoSing.
3. Axe#3 is potentially good, but I don’t think it has a high impact on the teamfight.
4. Focus#4 Absolutely horrid. I have no idea how a skill like that – full of randomness, clunky mechanics and a mediocre effect – can remain not reworked. Hitting it with blind mitigates it completely. Opponent strafing slightly or dodging mitigates it completely. Similarly to Axe#2, I have no idea what circumstances would have to occur for it to be fully utilized in combat (which is hitting 5 times between the necro and one opponent).
5. Focus#5 I remember talking to Powerr, who at the time worked on balance, and him saying that this skill is amazing against warriors. Well, not really. Actually it doesn’t seem to accomplish anything substantial against anything in the current meta.
6. The traits – they improve numbers and that means nothing from the practical standpoint. Why would I need Reaper’s Touch on 1200? For stealing Svanir? Sure lower cooldowns and slightly increased damage are nice, but the problem is not being able to hit these skills at all, not hitting with them for too little damage.

If axe+focus were supposed to be our offensive support skirmishing weapons, then they fail severely at fullfilling that design. In fact, I can’t imagine a thing which they don’t fail at.

I would love to hear what others think about the combo. Did anyone manage to make them work in any kind of spec in competitive PvP? What you guys think needs to happen to change them from being a hit-or-miss necro version of Rapid Fire with at least twice shorter range, less damage and much less utility, without actually making them as dumb as Rapid Fire.

Opinion of someone who mostly roamed in WvW (I get that you mentioned “competitive PvP”, but that’s such a niche style of GW2 PvP that other perspectives on the weapons might give you ideas. Or maybe those weapons fulfill other niches that other players enjoy and (I’m going to get castrated for saying this), don’t need to be balanced for “competitive PvP”. Then again, it could be a fun thought exercise to try balancing them for both, but niche weapons aren’t usually flexible):

Axe+Focus as a weapon set simply lacks synergy, in my opinion. I don’t see that as a bad thing, just a thing.

Axe #1 is the worst auto-attack I’ve ever used, and I absolutely do not use it in any circumstance unless I’m not paying attention and accidentally press my auto-button out of reflex. It’s vaguely useful as a blind clear, if you don’t need to clear blinds immediately and you don’t just get blinded again after the moderate cast time. The damage might as well not exist, and the vuln stacks don’t make it worth using.

Now that that’s out of the way, I like every other ability of the two weapons, just not as a weapon set. Axe #2 is great for LF gen, does solid damage, and can force dodges to combo into other abilities. Sure, if someone dodges then you’re out a thousand or two damage probably. But if that sets up into another chain of abilities, it’s a reliable way to get someone to use a dodge. And if they don’t, then you get more LF and a free thousand or two damage. Axe #3 I use against stealthers for a degree of detection, and the cripple is also nice for mid-range kiting of many classes. It could probably use a bit more utility or something, but I don’t mind it.

Focus was one of my favorite weapons. Focus #5 has a long cast time, but that isn’t always a bad thing. At the beginning of Warrior duels, I’d often use it the second I saw their Signet of Rage animation. That means that a split second after their signet goes off, all of the boons it just provided (if they don’t use Lyssa runes) are removed, and now they’re chilled. Traited, it’s a 1200 range long-duration chill that also gets rid of things like Swiftness, Protection, and the other boons you don’t like. And it’s on a 15 second cooldown. If you see someone dodge mid-cast, just cancel it and then re-use after 3 seconds. It’s very cancel-able because of the long cast time, and that gives you flexibility. I love it, and miss it when I’m playing Condi.

Focus #4 was my burst jam. You land it by using it in conjunction with Dagger #3. Oh, but that’s another long cast time you say? Yes, it is. In fact, it’s so long that someone with fast reflexes will see the animation, dodge, and then still get hit by it. Or, you can wait for it to almost be done, then cancel it. Or, you can simply bait a dodge or see a dodge, then use it while they’re dodging. Most people don’t watch for reasons to double dodge, so it often lands.

Now that they’re immobilized, and you’re running towards them, Focus #4 is almost guaranteed to ping between you and them. The closer you are, the faster it happens. Bonus: if you’re in DS, it gets a 50% bonus to crit chance. Do you know what it’s like for every Focus #4 hit to crit, while the enemy is immobilized and you pump a LB into their back, then chain a fear into it and pump another one? I’ll tell you what it’s like: if they aren’t really tanky, they straight-up die. I took some Thief in WvW from 100 – 0 in a few seconds with this combo. No wells required, just weapon skills on fairly low cooldowns.

And the 12 stacks of Vulnerability just enhance that burst combo, to boot.

So there you go. I ran around solo in WvW with both an Axe and Focus on different weapon sets (Axe+Dagger and Dagger+Focus), and I found quite a bit of success with them. Plus, Axe #2 channels on someone after they go Stealth, just like Dagger #2. It’s also good for clearing a blind while still doing damage. Overall I really, really liked it.

^^

Yep yep yep, I really love axe 2# on stealthing thiefs, if they don’t dodge, it will straight up 100-0 most of them. Plus the Axe training traits 10% damage boost will apply to DS and Lich form since it is 10% while wielding an axe rather than 10% to all axe skills.

I’m using axe for so long now…
Also, I can guaranty you that hybrid and power necro using Axe + Focus maybe really strong. However, I won’t recommend such a setup for sPvP.

Anyway, I may point you to this channel where you may find power and hybrid spec using the Axe + Focus switch with a rather smooth synergy.

I think that most importantly, you may find a variety of A/F combo in there such as fear to connect F#4 => DS#5 ends => A#2

PS:

it is 10% while wielding an axe rather than 10% to all axe skills.

It’s 10% more dmg to any skill from #1 to #3 will wielding the axe. That’s about the difference of DPS between axe and staff. Consequently, staff is equal to axe+mastery, but on #1 to #5

you can actually increse dps from axe auto attack by over 50% by properly stowing (after ~0.24 seconds), it’s still bad for pvp though cause the range is kitten

The dps increse is about 33% rather than 50%, but yes that’s a bug known by few.

Btw, I hope those two post won’t bring macro users to roll axe as it happened for elem S/X such as drazeh who like to use them in hot join.

The dps increse is about 33% rather than 50%, but yes that’s a bug known by few.

you get 3 hits into teh time of 1 auto attack instead of 2 (50% more) and also stack up more vulnerability so you actually get over 50% dmg increase. But even if you are doing that axe is still a bad weapon for anything remotely organized in pvp

Some words about focus:
I actually realy like my focus and mostly use it as a offhand nowadays but i have to agree it has quite alot of…weird properties. Like Leman mentioned it has a rather small coen area in front of you that it can actually hit, making it realy hard to use in close combat situations against eles or engies, it is however somewhat reliable on higher range. The #4 skill in itself is not too bad, nice lifeforce generation, decent dmg even in condi builds, provides a covering condtition that also helps your team dps a bit ad teh regen doesnt hurt either. What realy is bad about this skill though is that it does not behave like a normal projectile but instead “hugs the ground” and cant realy go uphill. so it wont fly in a line from you to teh target but instead stick as clsoe to teh ground as it can, making it sometimes get obstructed or out of raneg when it realy shouldnt. Focus #5 is a realy neat skill i personaly like alot, the boon removal is seemingly random, but it gives you amazing chase potential and makes disengaging from you realy realy hard and if traited nearly impossible. Also it is one of our few tools to get rid of mightstacks on enemies as our corrupts have them on rather low priority. So yea, focus could need some love from teh developers but it isn’t as bad as leman seems to think.

btw.: if anyone is wondering my current build that features focus: http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=;04dZ;1kHFC0x3sJkJ0;9;4JT;0J19-58C;419-3x07U;1jzyvjzyv2o

I probably would take something besides axe… but dagger forces me to get too close …and scepter is even more watered down than axe (for power user).

1. meh, dont autoattack except when nothing else better
2. As mentioned good against thieves. The damage can get substantial with enough power and crit damage. However the main benefit to me is that its great for generating lifeforce, use it on a downed to get half a tank when needed.
3. Applies cripple, removes a boon and grants retaliation while doing ok aoe damage, whats not to like. Very easy to use. Useful against thieves also.
4. Yea I wonder how much this actually does for me, but again it generates life force.
5. Spinal shivers on a guardian or warrior under pressure will end them. Dont expect it to seal the kill by itself but good timing will cause buff heavy classes to melt.

So its a decent weapon set but its main strength is for debuffing and generating lifeforce imo.

Blackmoa.3186:

you can actually increse dps from axe auto attack by over 50% by properly stowing (after ~0.24 seconds), it’s still bad for pvp though cause the range is kitten

I tested this on training golems. I tried some macros of “1” and “stow weapon” with 0.22-0.24 sec delays. Keep in mind, it’s actually not allowed to use macros like this but you know… for science!
The bottom line is: if you don’t use a macro it is impossible to get anywhere near the regular auto attack damage. The time it takes to press and release one key and then press the other adds a significant delay, not to mention that you will never ever consistently hit .24 sec several times in a row. There’s even a noticable difference between programming one repetition and queing more, so even having to klick your macro key adds some delay to this “cheated” auto attack chain.

As to the actual damage increase, it’s not really accurate to calculate just the time it takes to execute the full chain and compare. The faster attack ramps up vulnerability more quickly, add different amounts of condition duration and you’ll max out 25 stacks quicker or slower, or not at all.
But just to give you some numbers: with a zerker amulet a heavy golem would take about 20 sec without, and 15 sec with stowing. A low power amulet or a target with more hp would actually make stowing better, something like ~35 vs 20 sec.

In conclusion, should you be an axe user, don’t bother trying this trick. You won’t be able to increase your damage against a training golem while standing still and concentrating on nothing but that timing, so no chance at making it work in actual game content.
Besides, how often do you really use the auto attack of any weapon in PvP?

Kilger.5490:

So its a decent weapon set but its main strength is for debuffing and generating lifeforce imo.

^ This.

Also, to be even more accurate about the Focus implementation (see @Blackmoa.3186). Focus #4 can be cast and connect at 900range, but it will only bounce within 600range to its connection point.

Here we go even more laughable:
Traited you can cast it at 1200range. Guess what, it’ll only bounce within 600range to its connection point…

flow.6043:

Besides, how often do you really use the auto attack of any weapon in PvP?

Dagger Necro, Thief, elem; Staff guard; LB ranger, war may have to disagree about that

Anyway, thank you very much for supporting my point here

flow.6043:

take about 20 sec without, and 15 sec with stowing.

flow.6043:

But just to give you some numbers: with a zerker amulet a heavy golem would take about 20 sec without, and 15 sec with stowing. A low power amulet or a target with more hp would actually make stowing better, something like ~35 vs 20 sec.

You have to do a significant amount of trials to get any meaningful numbers as crit chance is a thing also to note is that you obviously wont increase dmg from on crit sigils liek air and fire(you just increase the chance of them proccing close to their cooldown), but as far as auto attack dmg goes it is a more than 50% increase as both hits of axe use the same multipliers and you hit 50% more often, and yes its not practical to use in the heat of battle, but you can do it by hand and get results that get close to a macro for limited amounts of time by chosing apropiate keybindings(any 2 standard keys next to each other, i find the stow weapon on the left easier to do) and for pve it actualy is doable, making axe a “viable” single target dps choice(0.24 sec stow on assassin/zerker gear fully buffed gives you ~18k dps on 2.6k armor targets, which isnt too bad).

I don’t actually think axe/focus is that bad right now. People just expect axe to be a high damage weapon when it just isn’t designed to do that, and focus’ only issues are weird animations/cast times.

If Spinal Shivers had its cast time reduced to 3/4 seconds, I think it would be pretty good.

If Reaper’s Touch had its cast reduced to 1/2 second (like the traited version was for a while) as well, Focus would be great.

magicsparadise.4871:

flow.6043:

Besides, how often do you really use the auto attack of any weapon in PvP?

Dagger Necro, Thief, elem; Staff guard; LB ranger, war may have to disagree about that

I actually meant just as a necro. And even with a power build you don’t get to dagger or DS auto that often, same for scepter condi builds.

Blackmoa.3186:

flow.6043:

But just to give you some numbers: with a zerker amulet a heavy golem would take about 20 sec without, and 15 sec with stowing. A low power amulet or a target with more hp would actually make stowing better, something like ~35 vs 20 sec.

You have to do a significant amount of trials to get any meaningful numbers as crit chance is a thing

Considering it takes 143287 hits to kill a golem with axe auto and I did it several times, I believe I gave a pretty representable average. And I didn’t use any crit sigils, just had Barbed Precision traited but that should’ve actually worked in favour of stowing weapon.

Blackmoa.3186:

but you can do it by hand and get results that get close to a macro for limited amounts of time by chosing apropiate keybindings(any 2 standard keys next to each other, i find the stow weapon on the left easier to do) and for pve it actualy is doable, making axe a “viable” single target dps choice(0.24 sec stow on assassin/zerker gear fully buffed gives you ~18k dps on 2.6k armor targets, which isnt too bad).

18k dps?
And I really doubt anyone could do it without a macro. My keyboard is good, I have both keys bound next to each other and I tried my best to lighting-reflex-hit them in perfect timing… I just couldn’t do better than a regular auto attack (always stacked less vuln).
You have to keep in mind, pressing and releasing one key takes ~0.05 sec, so this alone will add some time to your manual stow rotation. Also, if you hit stow before 0.19 sec it will cancel the hit entirely. And if you let the second auto attack hit after 0.25 you can’t use stow weapon until after the cast animation. So the window of opportunity is extremely short here.

I need to try this stowing business out. I actually use side mouse buttons for #1/Stow, so I could potentially roll my thumb to hit both if I was practiced enough to feel the rhythm.

And I’m assuming the 18k DPS is full might, full vulnerability, full food buffs, full PvE gear/runes/etc., fury, and all the other fixin’s that aren’t realistically achieved in most of the game.

Question: In a typical 62006 power build using the Focus, would you give up Reaper’s Might, or Chill of Death, to trait the Focus (I forget the trait name for this)?

flow.6043:

magicsparadise.4871:

flow.6043:

Besides, how often do you really use the auto attack of any weapon in PvP?

Dagger Necro, Thief, elem; Staff guard; LB ranger, war may have to disagree about that

I actually meant just as a necro. And even with a power build you don’t get to dagger or DS auto that often, same for scepter condi builds.

Blackmoa.3186:

flow.6043:

But just to give you some numbers: with a zerker amulet a heavy golem would take about 20 sec without, and 15 sec with stowing. A low power amulet or a target with more hp would actually make stowing better, something like ~35 vs 20 sec.

You have to do a significant amount of trials to get any meaningful numbers as crit chance is a thing

Considering it takes 143287 hits to kill a golem with axe auto and I did it several times, I believe I gave a pretty representable average. And I didn’t use any crit sigils, just had Barbed Precision traited but that should’ve actually worked in favour of stowing weapon.

Blackmoa.3186:

but you can do it by hand and get results that get close to a macro for limited amounts of time by chosing apropiate keybindings(any 2 standard keys next to each other, i find the stow weapon on the left easier to do) and for pve it actualy is doable, making axe a “viable” single target dps choice(0.24 sec stow on assassin/zerker gear fully buffed gives you ~18k dps on 2.6k armor targets, which isnt too bad).

18k dps?
And I really doubt anyone could do it without a macro. My keyboard is good, I have both keys bound next to each other and I tried my best to lighting-reflex-hit them in perfect timing… I just couldn’t do better than a regular auto attack (always stacked less vuln).
You have to keep in mind, pressing and releasing one key takes ~0.05 sec, so this alone will add some time to your manual stow rotation. Also, if you hit stow before 0.19 sec it will cancel the hit entirely. And if you let the second auto attack hit after 0.25 you can’t use stow weapon until after the cast animation. So the window of opportunity is extremely short here.

I was testing the axe stow thing a while ago, it’s considerably harder than ele and mesmer but Blackmoa is right about the stow I can do it just fine with a mechanical keyboard it took me like 3 hours of switching between hitting the golem and hotjoins bit eventually I was able to do it effectively in combat… I did have to put my stow weapon right next to my autoattack button.

It’s still not as good as dagger dps but if you are set on using axe =( you could boost your dps slightly and and apply a little extra vuln.

Warshade.2984:

Question: In a typical 62006 power build using the Focus, would you give up Reaper’s Might, or Chill of Death, to trait the Focus (I forget the trait name for this)?

In PvP, I’d personally give up Reaper’s Might. But that’s probably going to depend on whether you’re in sPvP or WvW, and whether you’re running might-stacking runes/sigils or not. Chill of Death is free burst that has the extra 50% chance to crit with Death Perception, so I wouldn’t give that one up personally.

Focus is just mechanically flawed. The #4 could deal a million dmg but for pvp (and for my taste even flat wvw) it just misses to often.
Shame to have skills with added cosmetics but fail at main funcionality.
I also dont trust them as it would be too much work. 3-6 months and u maybe get a numberic dmg or LF increase, a cast reduction at best – but not mechanicaly changing the projectile.

Leman. you said you were trying a celestial necro.
Cele is a long fight amulet meaning you need the condi clears. So staff and/or dagger offhand. Then warhorn beats it since covers mobilty so u dont need traveler + it gives better life force, especialy traited.

Xerrexes staff+ axe/focus zerker is really the only build where works a bit if you have enemys who let themselves get kited.

flow.6043:

Blackmoa.3186:

you can actually increse dps from axe auto attack by over 50% by properly stowing (after ~0.24 seconds), it’s still bad for pvp though cause the range is kitten

I tested this on training golems. I tried some macros of “1” and “stow weapon” with 0.22-0.24 sec delays. Keep in mind, it’s actually not allowed to use macros like this but you know… for science!
The bottom line is: if you don’t use a macro it is impossible to get anywhere near the regular auto attack damage. The time it takes to press and release one key and then press the other adds a significant delay, not to mention that you will never ever consistently hit .24 sec several times in a row. There’s even a noticable difference between programming one repetition and queing more, so even having to klick your macro key adds some delay to this “cheated” auto attack chain.

As to the actual damage increase, it’s not really accurate to calculate just the time it takes to execute the full chain and compare. The faster attack ramps up vulnerability more quickly, add different amounts of condition duration and you’ll max out 25 stacks quicker or slower, or not at all.
But just to give you some numbers: with a zerker amulet a heavy golem would take about 20 sec without, and 15 sec with stowing. A low power amulet or a target with more hp would actually make stowing better, something like ~35 vs 20 sec.

In conclusion, should you be an axe user, don’t bother trying this trick. You won’t be able to increase your damage against a training golem while standing still and concentrating on nothing but that timing, so no chance at making it work in actual game content.
Besides, how often do you really use the auto attack of any weapon in PvP?

To follow up i did my own messurements and i got the following numbers: 16.9 seconds without macro and 8.5 with makro 8.9 with stowing manualy so i could have gotten a bit mroe critluck on teh no macro trie but its not too far off the “perfect” stow

Reporting in from the field: trying to cast/stow using side mouse-buttons with your thumb is actually awful and I don’t recommend it, unless you have Strongman thumbs. I’ll just go back to never using the Axe #1 again and call it a day.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Reporting in from the field: trying to cast/stow using side mouse-buttons with your thumb is actually awful and I don’t recommend it, unless you have Strongman thumbs. I’ll just go back to never using the Axe #1 again and call it a day.

Yeah I already use my thumb for all my utilities anyway, don’t think I could push fast enough with it to do it with necro axe… I could see mesmer gs being a possibility.

I also only use axe in a couple of general situations like WvW roaming and PvE events where there is too much powerful AoE (or it is too hard to see because of overlapping lighting effects so I need a little space to get out of the frenzy.)

Axe can be very good when there are enough allies to take advantage of the vulnerability stacking but not so many that the stack is capped already, like in PvE events. The added dps for vulnerability (1% each) does not make up for axe’s lower damage unless the bonus is multiplied by many other hands. That is, maintaining, say, 10 stacks on a target through boring and awful auto attack only gets a 10% dps increase if I am the only one attacking and the opponent just lets me continue like that. Add an ally, though, and 10 stacks gets an extra 20% total on target and two allies gets 30% total extra dps and the allies could be set up to hit way harder so their dps increase is more significant than mine. How often in PvP does that really happen to make up for the lower damage compared to dagger?

Axe has been buffed a few times since release so it is no longer completely horrible but I still feel the vulnerability and the way its dps bonus scales with the number of players taking advantage of the condition holds axe back from being improved even more.

While Dhuumfire on axe was the wrong condition, at least it was a damaging condition that added a lot to personal dps rather than counting, for the most part, on allies helping, even if the allies are minions.

I hope a developer reads this next suggestion: Please trade one vulnerability on one AA stroke for one bleed. Necromancer does not need as much vulnerability stacking as axe provides and punishing the weapon because of its power in an ideal condition (multiple allies that do not already apply plenty of vulnerability) decreases its usefulness in most ordinary play.

Why would you put a bleed on a weapon set that has absolutely no innate condition damage. Axe stacking vuln on AA is absolutely fine.

Honestly, they keep buffing axe, but in the wrong skills. The only buff Axe 1 has gotten since launch has been an aftercast reduction. While that’s nice, it still doesn’t help the real problem which is that its damage is so low as to not be worth doing.

The reduced damage would be easier to swallow if the range was 900. As it stands, the range is simply too close to dagger and the damage so significantly inferior to it that the weapon feels redundant.

Another major issue is with the limited utility. While vulnerability is great, it’s also a very common condition throughout the whole game and hardly worth trying to style a weapon after. The set as a whole needs more utility. The easiest thing to do is either reduce the cooldown on unholy feast or to make unholy feast a blast finisher.

At least with these 2 changes you’d feel like the weapon has a unique niche to actually fill. Right now the weapon feels so similar to dagger that it’s just not worth using.

A blast on UF would be nice, but any more buffs to that skill would be insane, it is already really strong. At this point we just need buffs to the 1 skill. Damage, speed, vuln duration, something.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

If Spinal Shivers had its cast time reduced to 3/4 seconds, I think it would be pretty good.

If Reaper’s Touch had its cast reduced to 1/2 second (like the traited version was for a while) as well, Focus would be great.

I agree with that. Casttime is actually the reason why focus is rather lackluster.

What if axe auto had a siphon attached to it? Dagger can gain lf on auto and siphon on #2.

Homogenization isn’t good. Axe doesn’t need a siphon attached, it needs more damage on auto.

A siphon is more damage. I think axe could use a melee single target “cleave” too, for those pesky thieves that like to shadow refuge as they go down. When you use axe+focus with staff, you probably used all your nontarget abilities to down them. Then all you can do is wait for them to Bandage themselves back to life even if you know where they are.

Axe 3 ds 5 4 staff 1,2,3,4,5. U used all of them?

Plexxing.2978:

A siphon is more damage. I think axe could use a melee single target “cleave” too, for those pesky thieves that like to shadow refuge as they go down. When you use axe+focus with staff, you probably used all your nontarget abilities to down them. Then all you can do is wait for them to Bandage themselves back to life even if you know where they are.

It’ll depend on your spec, but if you have Axe+Focus/Staff, you have two options on a downed opponent that you cannot target, especially if you know where they are:

1. Staff #1. You can aim it manually as a projectile based on your camera position. You’ll have to bring the camera more directly behind your character, but it’s possible.

2. DS #1. Same principle as Staff #1. You can hit people with it without having them targeted.

Also, marks don’t trigger on downed opponents, so those aren’t useful unless an ally shows up to help anyway. You still have options, though.

A siphon on AA is essentially the same as increasing raw damage, not that I mind the idea, but I wonder if axe is already as strong as it will be after all of its buffs.

That was why I suggested trading one vulnerability for a bleed. The trade may be more equal that way. The way I figure it, axe is held back because of its ability to maintain a high stack of vulnerability but most situations in PvP and PvE do not make that good a use of it, either because players in PvP will not let you maintain high stacks on them or because bosses in PvE are easily capped.

Trade one vulnerability on one stroke for one bleed. Then, the weapon has some small amount of condition damage while retaining half of its vulnerability stacking.

NeXeD, you must be fighting weak thieves if that’s all it takes for you to kill them. Staff and DS auto on a stealthed downed thief is only good until he moves and that tends to happen pretty fast when you’re hitting it.
Anchoku, I don’t like the idea of a damaging condition on a power weapon as additional damage. In pve that would just cap bleeds out faster on zerg fests.

Lol. I didn’t say that’s all I would do to a theif….. that’s what I would use when they are stealthed. I wouldn’t use axe anyway though. So I would have dagger auto and warhorn 5. But if your having problems with a theif using shadow refuge as they die l2p =)

I once used Dagger auto in a tight spiral out from the center of a Shadow Refuge and covered quite a bit of land until I decided it was a really stupid mechanic and just left. There’s really no reason why Stealth shouldn’t fall off when you go into downed state, just like Conditions and Boons (do Boons drop off?).

Then they show up, you go for the stomp, and they teleport away. Then you go for another stomp, and they go back into stealth. Overall there’s nothing redeeming about how that mechanic works, so regardless of all the playing you learned how to do to compensate, it’s really, really stupid to deal with.

Or you could just dagger auto and hit wh 5 until you see your lf increasing and stop moving until it isn’t increasing anymore then move again until it is. Seems like a l2p issue for some people. Go play a theif learn how to use their downstate effectively and you instantly know how to own it.

Plexxing, both bleeds and vulnerability will cap in PvE events, anyway.

By dividing axe’s conditions between vulnerability and bleed, I hope to spread them across 2 stacks to reduce capping speed.

Axe used to be really weak so it needed to stack a lot of vulnerability just for playing MM where you get multiple “allies” that do not stack vulnerability.

To be honest, I would rather axe apply weakness on one of the strokes but I can already hear cries of OP.

Two strokes of vulnerability per attack, even without double duration, is too much in group play and axe has no condition damage. Remember how popular it was with Dhuumfire? Axe needs something else to broaden its use and I am willing to trade half of its vulnerability stacking for it.

Broad uses was one of axe’s original issues. It did a lot of stuff and it did all of it really badly. Adding condition damage to a weapon with absolutely no condition damage synergy makes no sense.

Well, fine, Bhawb. How would you suggest axe be improved without making it stronger?

I didn’t say it didn’t have to be made stronger. The 3 skill shouldn’t be made stronger (except for a blast finisher at most), but the 1 skill definitely has to be made better and arguably even the 2 could use a little help. But do that within the power/vuln-stacking theme of the weapon.

It already has a good little kit going: the auto stacks vuln, setting you up for a strong 2 burst, and 3 debuffs the enemies, allowing you to kite/chase and punishes focus. Work on making that kit better, not adding more stuff for it to do.

Yep add some damage to #1, thats all thats needed. Make every 3rd attack a big hit. Make it into a real power weapon. Its really going to suck when you get one of those new taunts on you and you happen to have an axe (autoattack only) in hand.