Guild Wars 2

I really don’t understand how they can allow this weapon to have so many issues for 2 years.

The only power based ranged weapon for a necromancer, with a 600 pitiful range. Useless retaliation on its third skill is apparently fine, but god forbid they give us a reliable source of vigor for PvE.

Ghastly claws, playing my ranger (which is another lacking class in this kick-happy community), is just a crappy rapid fire that doesn’t even stack vulnerability.

Then you have an autoattack that hits like a wet noodle.

Why does every necromancer skill have such a ridiculous cast time? The #3 skill, the dagger #5, everything seems to have some ridiculous delay, even wells. All while playing on my other classes I get skills that fire off pretty much immediately.

Then we have an entire collection of utilities centered on condition manipulation or minions, in a PvE game where people just cleanse conditions and mobs rarely use them or boons. Minions would seem like the one utility centered for power necromancers, but forget about that in any PvE content they’ll die to aoe immediately and they mess up speed runs.

Then we have a dagger autoattack that is no better than my ele’s lightning whip, which not only attacks from farther, but our autoattack only hits 2 targets for some reason while I on my ele can autoattack 3+ targets and burning speed an even greater amount of targets for 5-7k damage. In case you haven’t realized, burning speed is a 5-7k skill that is instant, has a built in evade, creates a fire field for blast finishers, and burns targets that remain there for even more damage.

And meanwhile my death shroud life transfer hits for the same damage, but has to be channeled for a longer time and bears no special effects.

I really don’t get the huge dearth of utility and blast finishers, having no reliable access to vigor.

I mean look at melee lupi, we can’t even have reliable amount of dodges due to no vigor or extra endurance regen (gotta have food for 40% extra, 60% less than vigor), and death shroud ever since the nerf disallowing it from absorbing a final hit without transferring over to your healthpool, can’t be even used to absorb kicks when you’re out of endurance. Death shroud also does not protect against cc.

Death Shroud should give 3 seconds of stability baseline when entering it.

The axe’s main selling point (less so now due to DS CD nerf) was/is getting in and out of DS quickly via quick easily connected LF gain (Ghastly Claws). It really needed to be 900 range weapon with either its AA or Ghastly Claws doing small AoE/cleave damage.

Necromancer cast times in general really needed to be more in line with GW1 Necros. Basically very quick counter/hex spells rather than the 1-2 seconds it take to cast many of our counter skills.

Condition and boon manipulation really needs to be addressed in pve by actually implementing it on mobs/bosses for almost every encounter. Without that most of our kitten nal will always be marginal. I’m hoping we see this in the new expansion and if that doesn’t happen, hopefully Anet will eventually see the error of their ways when the meta doesn’t change, again despite there efforts.

I always felt dagger’s problem was not that it didn’t cleave. I believe its problem is that it should have been a more powerful life stealing and we needed another weapon (like Axe, but we now get Gsword) for cleaving. Dagger should have been “the” life steal sustain weapon for surviving outside DS in melee as an attrition power necro.

Life Transfer actually hits for less when you take into account its channel time as you mention. The main role of life transfer is LF regain while in DS though. It’s secondary role is modest area damage and third traited role of course is area healing. Life blast is the true DPS skill of DS and does it very well when traited for piercing.

Vigor access is something that should be looked into especially on Axe, being our skirmish weapon designed for kiting enemies and all.

Death Shroud in my opinion should have had a mechanic that capped damage per second in DS to a % of your total life force bar (like 10-15%). That would have solved the spike and attrition issues with it.

We will see how stability works post expansion change. I’m thinking it will be easier to beat in many cases, making it less of an advantage to other classes and therefore a gain for us. Depends on how they balance duration/stacks.

What if the axe auto did both Vulnerability stacks on the first hit, then stole endurance on the second? As in, target loses some, you gain some.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

What if the axe auto did both Vulnerability stacks on the first hit, then stole endurance on the second? As in, target loses some, you gain some.

That would be an interesting mechanic and would actually fit the axe design/feel in a weird executioner way.

As a way of avoiding the “problem” of Necros having too much boon access, I’m a proponent for Necros having access to abilities that accomplish similar things as boons, but less effective to make up for not being as easily countered.

Like I always thought Mark of Blood should apply a non-boon area heal that stacks with regeneration, just less powerful. Or instead of retaliation for Necros, we got some defensive life stealing effect instead (like pre patch/nerf SoV passive for x seconds).

I would be pretty happy if they just made axe 900 range and buffed 2 a little more. Making axe auto splash aoe would also be nice. Basically what Balekai said in first paragraph^^ Overall it does feel pretty underpowered :/

I’m with omnibus. A 900 range and a tweak elsewhere would be enough for me. I’m honestly ok with the damage #2 does. It’s no rapid fire, but meh. I’d much prefer just giving the class a blast finisher on #3 and perhaps give us the boon it took instead of retaliation.

Dude, axe is awesome. Vuln stacks for the win. ghastly hits real hard, gives serious lf. Ranger is OP, for real. Every jobs 5 skill had long cd, deal with it

macaulay.6925:

Dude, axe is awesome. Vuln stacks for the win. ghastly hits real hard, gives serious lf. Ranger is OP, for real. Every jobs 5 skill had long cd, deal with it

You cant be serious with this comment can you? Have you played necro in pvp? Or are you a champ train farmer? Either way, you’re wrong.

I think axe would be better if they increased the range to 900, or turned it into a melee weapon that has the same dagger #1 cleave.

Ah. You talk about PvE.

Guess it’s not as useful there.

If I learn it the hard way, it will get only better once they buff it. My logic for bringing this into tPvP.

Zenith.7301:

I really don’t understand how they can allow this weapon to have so many issues for 2 years.

Because axe isn’t going to solve any of our issues on its own regardless. It will never be good enough in PvE to make up for our problems, and it won’t suddenly enable our power builds in PvP to be relevant.

Zenith.7301:

Why does every necromancer skill have such a ridiculous cast time? The #3 skill, the dagger #5, everything seems to have some ridiculous delay, even wells. All while playing on my other classes I get skills that fire off pretty much immediately.

It is 1s for a skill that strips a boon, cripples for 5s, and can permanently stack retaliation. The skill is by no means bad, and the cast time is completely reasonable.

Zenith.7301:

Then we have an entire collection of utilities centered on condition manipulation or minions, in a PvE game where people just cleanse conditions and mobs rarely use them or boons. Minions would seem like the one utility centered for power necromancers, but forget about that in any PvE content they’ll die to aoe immediately and they mess up speed runs.

Yeah… except for Signets, Wells, and Spectrals, all of which also work well on Power builds.

Zenith.7301:

Death Shroud should give 3 seconds of stability baseline when entering it.

No it shouldn’t.

Zenith.7301:

Necromancer cast times in general really needed to be more in line with GW1 Necros. Basically very quick counter/hex spells rather than the 1-2 seconds it take to cast many of our counter skills.

I’m not saying that we don’t have quite a few skills that need changes, but our entire profession is very different to GW1. Also, the vast majority of Necromancer skills in GW1 are 1s cast, almost all of the rest are 2s. We had comparably few skills that were sub 1s.

Zenith.7301:

Death Shroud in my opinion should have had a mechanic that capped damage per second in DS to a % of your total life force bar (like 10-15%). That would have solved the spike and attrition issues with it.

This could be done very easily with all kinds of stuff, but it is worth mentioning that you already take half direct damage in DS, which is really strong on its own. SA is enough to nearly nullify damage done to you from one person while it is active (you only take 33% damage while having protection and in DS, plus gain LF when hit).

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

What if the axe auto did both Vulnerability stacks on the first hit, then stole endurance on the second? As in, target loses some, you gain some.

I think endurance drain on an auto attack is a bit too much. Not that endurance drain wouldn’t be good in some places, but Axe is a pretty fast auto attack, and endurance drain is pretty strong. As an example, just 5 energy drained basically cancels out endurance regen, and effectively gives us permanent vigor (while attacking). Less than that is too small for people to really feel like it is doing something for them, even if it is.

I’d love to see it, don’t get me wrong, just not sure that the AA is the spot for it. It could be incorporated into the 2 skill, which would also make it much easier for that skill to make itself more relevant because it would make it harder for it to be dodged.

What I would suggest to fix Axe is increase the AA and 2 skill’s range to 900 like others have said. It isn’t nor will it ever be a PvE weapon (just like Ranger LB isn’t), so splash isn’t that important. I’d also add a blast finisher to Unholy Feast.

One important thing to mention is that while Rapid Fire deals a bit more damage, it has a slightly higher CD as well. So if we want the damage to be equaled out, it should also have its CD raised to 10s just like Rapid Fire, have its damage (both base and power scaling) changed to be the same, and have its LF generation slightly increased to compensate the CD increase.

Also, I think we should get a trait that gives Vigor on channeling skills. It could give us say 1s of Vigor for every 1s we channel. That would give us 1 source of vigor on every build (DS 4), and up to two more in specific builds, but cost a trait, force you to use certain skills, and have counterplay to it. You could also change it to be some amount of energy drain on channeled skills, although you would probably put in some kind of ICD type effect so that DS 4 didn’t end up refilling your bar (maybe that isn’t bad though idk).

He’s talking from a pvp perspective while my post mostly focused on a PvE perspective.

Good luck eating lupicus kicks to the face (and being launched out of position, screwing up the melee stack for the group) in death shroud because you don’t have enough endurance unless you use energy sigils or non-dps food while the rest of the classes have easy access to vigor or endurance refunds. I don’t think this guy understands how much damage PvE mobs do you can’t eat mechanics in PvE or you die regardless of what class you are without dodges.

Don’t answer my points with pvp concerns they need to split skills, I won’t tolerate 2 years of misery for the sake of pvp people.

Signets and spectrals are virtually useless in PvE.

Its simple don’t use axe in PvE. There are a lot of weapons that are awful in PvE, and axe will probably always be one of them. They also will not split skills, it is very much against what they want to do and they’ve already said they will not split unless absolutely necessary (and no matter what you feel they won’t feel this is absolutely necessary).

And Lupi can be solo’d by Necro, so… what’s your point.

“Fixing” Axe in PvE won’t do a single thing for our PvE viability. It will just give us another weapon to sulk in the corner with.

make ghastly claw ground target AoE lol.

Zenith.7301:

He’s talking from a pvp perspective while my post mostly focused on a PvE perspective.

Good luck eating lupicus kicks to the face (and being launched out of position, screwing up the melee stack for the group) in death shroud because you don’t have enough endurance unless you use energy sigils or non-dps food while the rest of the classes have easy access to vigor or endurance refunds. I don’t think this guy understands how much damage PvE mobs do you can’t eat mechanics in PvE or you die regardless of what class you are without dodges.

Don’t answer my points with pvp concerns they need to split skills, I won’t tolerate 2 years of misery for the sake of pvp people.

Signets and spectrals are virtually useless in PvE.

They balance the game around pvp…… sorry bro…. it is what it is though! the ENTIRE game can function with balancing around pvp. If they balanced on pve the other two game modes would be utterly broken.

Bhawb.7408:

Its simple don’t use axe in PvE. There are a lot of weapons that are awful in PvE, and axe will probably always be one of them. They also will not split skills, it is very much against what they want to do and they’ve already said they will not split unless absolutely necessary (and no matter what you feel they won’t feel this is absolutely necessary).

And Lupi can be solo’d by Necro, so… what’s your point.

“Fixing” Axe in PvE won’t do a single thing for our PvE viability. It will just give us another weapon to sulk in the corner with.

It’s like talking to a wall…..lupi can be soloed with energy sigils or food….

It’s not just axe all necro weapons suck in PvE.

In a group you dont need energy sigils for lupi unless you expect your group to wipe and make you solo. Although i admit its not recommend to go without unless you are experienced and running with experienced players.

spoj.9672:

In a group you dont need energy sigils for lupi unless you expect your group to wipe and make you solo. Although i admit its not recommend to go without unless you are experienced and running with experienced players.

Yeah, if i trust my guardians or if the group i run with has enough burst to push his phase I can trust that, but inevitably there are time where I’m going to lack those and the fact stands that my necromancer is handicapped for no good reason other than the usual pvp whine.

They love to say our DS is the reason we can’t have escapes/vigor/stability yet DS has been shown time and again to only work (and sometimes too well) in duels and small scale spvp but it’s virtually worthless in pve and large scale pvp/wvw mechanisms.

And good god the minor traits for necro and mesmer, and ranger marksman/bm lines are awful. I play ele/warrior/guardian/thief and it’s disgusting how much better their minors are.

everytime i go back to trying the axe i am struck by the lack of utility on this weapon. I mean, invulnerability is great, but rarely useful, as in, by the time i stack a noticeable amount, the trash mob is dead, so who cares. In addition, other classes also stack it, so i find it underwealming at best during boss fights. #2 is a decent channel if you can stay within 600 range and a pebble is not in front of you that obstructs you and breaks the chain, or you have to dodge in the middle of the channel. that said, its hardly good for anything but single target burndown (trash mob) or hitting a stealthed thief, granted you started the channel before he went stealth. #3 is a nice cripple, and not terrible damage, but it should be a kitten blast finisher, and give us someway to blast fields to increase its utility.

In order to make axe worth it: (My opinion, not yours)
#1 should be a cone/cleave weapon (and i think a bleed would be more interesting than vulnerability, to give us a true hybrid weapon – ok maybe too strange, but it would be cool to be able to actually stack bleeds like warriors or other classes can.)
#2 should have an aoe centered on the target splash effect that does a % of the damage to the surrounding 4 targets; and the channel be sped up (again, i think the splash effect could also add poison which would increase its ultility; and
#3 should be a blast finisher, in order to give us the chance to blast fields.

Maybe that would make the axe op, and it could be tweaked, but as it is now, it is a trash weapon, and i rarely use it. sometimes i use it once, in pve, just to see big numbers when i have 25 might stacked on a slow moving dumb mob that can’t dodge my #2 channel. then i finish my channel and find myself pressing 1, 1, 1 until the swap cooldown goes away and i switch to a better weapon, or just go into DS and pound away until i can exit ds, switch weapons, and do some damage. then after that fight, i put my axe away again.

Gryph.8237:

everytime i go back to trying the axe i am struck by the lack of utility on this weapon. I mean, invulnerability is great, but rarely useful, as in, by the time i stack a noticeable amount, the trash mob is dead, so who cares. In addition, other classes also stack it, so i find it underwealming at best during boss fights. #2 is a decent channel if you can stay within 600 range and a pebble is not in front of you that obstructs you and breaks the chain, or you have to dodge in the middle of the channel. that said, its hardly good for anything but single target burndown (trash mob) or hitting a stealthed thief, granted you started the channel before he went stealth. #3 is a nice cripple, and not terrible damage, but it should be a kitten blast finisher, and give us someway to blast fields to increase its utility.

In order to make axe worth it: (My opinion, not yours)
#1 should be a cone/cleave weapon (and i think a bleed would be more interesting than vulnerability, to give us a true hybrid weapon – ok maybe too strange, but it would be cool to be able to actually stack bleeds like warriors or other classes can.)
#2 should have an aoe centered on the target splash effect that does a % of the damage to the surrounding 4 targets; and the channel be sped up (again, i think the splash effect could also add poison which would increase its ultility; and
#3 should be a blast finisher, in order to give us the chance to blast fields.

Maybe that would make the axe op, and it could be tweaked, but as it is now, it is a trash weapon, and i rarely use it. sometimes i use it once, in pve, just to see big numbers when i have 25 might stacked on a slow moving dumb mob that can’t dodge my #2 channel. then i finish my channel and find myself pressing 1, 1, 1 until the swap cooldown goes away and i switch to a better weapon, or just go into DS and pound away until i can exit ds, switch weapons, and do some damage. then after that fight, i put my axe away again.

I think you have some good ideas, but I’d like to make some tweaks. The aoe should be based on the animation. It makes a big tear where the enemy is. That area should deal up to 5 enemies. It is a fairly small region and is based on the enemy u are aiming, so it wouldn’t be too overpowered. Same shoukd go for the ace 2.

Axe has been held back because it stacks vulnerability too well. Even 5 more vulnerability on a PvE boss is like giving an extra superior sigil of force to yourself and every other ally attacking a boss and I can easily maintain a constant stack of 10 all by myself. The way damage scales is nearly ridiculous.

I use this quick and dirty rule: If a target comes up short of the vulnerability cap by about 5 on average, axe wins for dps, hands down. It is not me doing the massive dps because axe is handicapped. It is everyone else seeing the equivalent of 5 continuous extra might stacks.

This is why axe seems so lame from a user point of view. If I just AA to push a PUG’s vulnerability from ~15 might to its cap at 25, my axe is responsible, though not credited for, the sum of 4 other players extra 10% damage. However, if the group was already capping the vulnerability stack, suddenly axe loses on dps to dagger by a large margin, kind of like pulling out scepter when bleeds are capped.

Axe only looks weak to you while the developers and balance teams see it as potentially very powerful in perfect situations.

What if vulnerability was more rare, trimmed back, in other professions so it was not so heavily spammed? It would make Necromancer running axe a lot more popular in groups because hitting that vulnerability cap would depend upon Necromancer as much as groups depend upon fire fields for might.

p.s.
I am not trying to defend axe, it needs help, but believe vulnerability on auto-attack is its main problem. Vulnerability is almost useless in PvP and WvW and is either capped in PvE, or insanely powerful. There is just too much vulnerability available in-game. With might, players generally have to do something to get it. Stacking vulnerability on AA, or all the other easy ways other professions can apply it is too much.

If you are with a huge blob attacking some risen high priest and, for some bizarre reason, vulnerability never got above 24, just adding a single stack more using axe’s boring AA increases damage by 1% for the entire dps of everyone in the blob; e.g., 50 players averaging 2k dps multiplied by 1% is a 1k health/s increase your axe is responsible for.

Developers look at this and probably think that is over-powered. Imagine what could be done with a vulnerability cap raised to 100. That equates to a 100% increase in everyone’s dps – seriously game-breaking. Necromancers with axes would go from unwanted to in very high demand overnight.

Warrior and engi can stack vulnerability far more efficiently than an axe necro. On my mark is an INSTANT 10, warrior already got traits to apply vulnerability via attacking, and an ele applies vulnerability on crits or an engineer.

And the difference is all those other classes are not doing terrible damage while stacking vulnerability/applying boons.

I ran a fractal 50 yesterday and I felt it. Necro cleave is awful, and the dagger autoattack isn’t even something to write home about. Moreover people can get really kittened at your well because they’d rather have fire/water fields under them to blast on.

Then there’s also the fact that you’re doing something like the colossus, and grabbing the hammer as a necro is a liability on the third floor because you get knocked back and have no source stability to not get gibbed by all the cultists around the seal. Your death shroud makes you drop the hammer.

There’s so many disadvantages to death shroud. Can’t use important objects, can’t use conjures, can’t heal inside it. You as a necromancer bring no blast finishers or fields taht people want. Your wells are on ridiculously large cooldowns for the effect they have. Why even have a well of darkness when a thief can have black powder far more often if needed?

I have really tried to find something redeemable about the class in PvE but all I ended doing was dumping 300g worth of crafting down the drain for him on top of a bunch transmutation charges only to shelf him and send all the stuff to my ele (who I am sick of using).

If the three classes I enjoy playing (ranger, necro, mesmer), only my ranger somewhat functions. Mesmer damage is outright horrendous and you’re just there for the iwardens and feedback/pulls, which a guardian does better anyways.

I jump on my thief/warrior/ele and it’s night and day.