Guild Wars 2

Everytime I give the Axe a go, I always feel like it’s terrible.

It doesn’t cleave, AA damage is pretty lackluster and effect (vulnerability) is not that special.
Axe#2 is so slow to cast yet is not that much damage, it doesn’t feel rewarding to channel a skill so long for so little.
The animation and delay of the AA feels really annoying, it doesn’t have any impact and the animation is a lot worse since they remade them. The delay before hit further makes it frustrating to use.

The only good thing about the axe is the #3, though even that skill could be improved upon.

Do you think we will see any changes to the axe in the future? What would you want to see?

When questioned whether-or-not axe would receive substantial buffs, Robert Gee (I think) claimed that due to it’s nature as a ranged weapon w/o a projectile, it can’t be buffed. Ergo it’s impossible to balance and probably deserves a partial rework.

In my opinion, you’re super right in that the problem with axe isn’t so much that it’s undertuned, but that it just plain feels bad to use. For lack of a better word, it feels flaccid. I think this is due to a number or reasons, but I subscribe to the belief that it’s due to the 1/2 essentially being the same skill (single target skill that hits a dude), with the 2 just being a superior version.

Additionally, the 3 has zero synergy with any part of the kit! Sure, it’s a good ability for a multitude of reasons, but that doesn’t excuse it for being out-of-place and unsatisying to use.

I mean, just compare it to it’s condition counterpart, the scepter – that weapon has been iterated to the point of being pretty dang well designed. The auto and 2 serve different purposes and are functionally super different, and the 3 ties the whole weapon together through natural synergy – the weapon feels good to use due to good design.

In conclusion, axe is bad. Dagger is, too – but that’s another show.

Focus 4, Axe 2 – problem solved. Cripple is a nice addition to most ranged weapons, but in the case of necromancer, I’m using axe to pull or simply tag mobs. Cripple is counter productive to my close combat comfort zone. Retaliation might be useful if I remembered to use it.

If I want to kite, scepter is more useful with its perma-cripple.

Steelstickfig.9146:

For lack of a better word, it feels flaccid.

Very accurate, and the word choice paints a lovely mental picture. Axe just feels bland and empty. Many weapons (depending on profession) are fun, practical, and visually pleasing. The axe is just practical for niche ranged damage situations…that is it. As far as I’m concerned the only real use for axe is the Underground Facility fractal to infinitely walk backwards and awkwardly slash the air.

Steelstickfig.9146:

When questioned whether-or-not axe would receive substantial buffs, Robert Gee (I think) claimed that due to it’s nature as a ranged weapon w/o a projectile, it can’t be buffed. Ergo it’s impossible to balance and probably deserves a partial rework.

Here’s what he said:

Robert Gee.9246:

One of the reasons we are more conservative about axe when it comes to balance is because axe uses a unique attack action in our game that cannot be avoided using positioning. Normal melee attacks have an attack arc and normal ranged attacks use projectiles. Enemy players can use positioning and movement to avoid these attacks. Axe 1 and 2 by contrast just hit you when you are in range regardless of your positioning. While some utility skills (like Corrupt Boon) also use this targeting method, it’s rare on weapon skills and thus we are wary of buffing it too much.

Of course this explanation doesn’t make sense.

Axe 1 and 2 don’t ignore line of sight so they can definitely be avoided using positioning.

The only advantage of a non-projectile ranged attack is that it can’t be reflected.
But this is neither a “unique attack action” nor is it “rare on weapon skills”.
The first example that comes to mind: our own scepter’s auto attack chain:
Not only does it have the same attack mechanic as Rending Claws, but it was continuously buffed during the past half year:

- poison stacks in intensity
- Putrid Curse inflicts bleeding in addition to poison
- Putrid Curse corrupts 1 boon

To put this into perspective, even before those buffs the auto attack of the scepter (a condition weapon) did more damage in a power build than the axe’s Rending Claws. Naturally, gear optimization made this discrepancy even more ridiculous.
However, all Rending Claws got during that time was +10% damage and +300 range.
So basically, the axe was buffed to have the same range the scepter had had for years and it got a damage buff you wouldn’t even notice if it didn’t say so in the patch notes.

Anet’s reasoning: the axe can’t get buffs as significant as the scepter because of its “unique” attack mechanic, which is the exact same as the scepter’s.
What?? Yeah…

In conclusion: yes, the axe deserves (more) buffs. Will it actually get some? Who knows.

I refuse to use it. I stopped even considering it as a weapon-type I have available to use when they reworked the animation. I didn’t like it before then but at least every now and again I might equip it for the rare situation it might be beneficial. Now? No. It feels awful to use and the new animations for it just sealed the deal on not wanting to touch it ever again.

AA animation needs to be reverted. AA itself needs to be faster. 2 needs a reduced cast time and additional effect or increased damage, one or the other. And 3 should be reworked completely and added as an additional effect for dagger #3 (imo).

Axe falls into the same catagory as Warrior Rifle and Thief Pistol/Pistol, though both of those got buffs recently. They’re all inferior to another weapon due to the fact they are mostly single target weapons.

Use axe focus instead of staff and either dagger horn or greatsword for dps. It works differently but it works. LF generation is stronger and axe cannot be dodged as welll.

Since the 300 range increase, I use axe more, not as a dagger or GS replacement, but as staff replacement.

I absolutely love using axe + dagger; I pretty much exclusively use them. To me it’s the staff attack animation that is completely lackluster and doesn’t feel good.

Which just goes to show that what doesn’t work for your play style can work for someone else’s.

~EW

I think Axe could be reworked to be medium-ranged AoE Power weapon. While Dagger is single target, this would be AoE and neither would step on toes.

Honestly, they might as well think the Earth is flat if they are too conservative to buff Axe. It is easily in the top 3 worst weapons.

Axe should be changed like this:

• Make axe a melee weapon that cleaves, just like dagger, but can switch to ranged DPS. Details below.
• Axe #2 should not be a channel. It should be a cast DoT just like Ranger’s bird-swarm from warhorn #4.
• Attacking the marked target gives the Necro an attack speed boost.
• When a target is marked with the axe #2 DoT, autoattacks from axe can hit from long range on the marked target (think Urgot’s seeker missiles in League).
• Deselecting the marked target and autoattacking will result in melee cleave attacks.

If they just made these few changes, axe would a viable ranged power weapon for Necros.

auto attack really ugly too

Axe 1 applies vulnerability at range: before all the HoT power creep this was a strong vulnerability stack with a moderate auto attack damage. It could use a life force generation of 1-2%, or slightly faster attack speed, but it’s a decent auto if you aren’t in need of AoE (i.e. PvP). The scaling is similar to the first 2 hits of guardian/Warrior GS, rev sword auto or thief auto , and higher than that of mesmer sword. Keep in mind Unholy Fervor gives a damage boost.

Basically any major buff to Axe 1(Rending Claws) would require it to be a auto chain.

Axe#2 (Ghastly claws) is for life force generation. The damage isn’t as atrocious as you make it out to be , it has a 2.88 multiplier . I mean the channel is a bit long (but still shorter than Life Siphon on dagger) and could be reduced a bit. But do you really want it to have AoE? How big of an AoE? 130 range? 900 range pierce in a line?

Axe 3 (Unholy feast) is a short recharge AoE boon corrupt & cripple. The only problem with it is PBAOE , but you should be able to put up with this given that it is a fast cast.

Scepter was buffed over the top IMO… the sheer amount of condi spam is over the top , the boon corrupt pushed it further.

Why are we buffing everything ranged with AoE / pierce? We should be nerfing all the 1200 ranged AoE/pierce skills with 2.5+ multipliers less than 1 second cast time and short recharges, IMO (CoR/Gun flame/ True shot for starters). If all the ranged skills are buffed , then there is zero reason to melee.

Infusion.7149:

Axe 1 applies vulnerability at range: before all the HoT power creep this was a strong vulnerability stack with a moderate auto attack damage. It could use a life force generation of 1-2%, or slightly faster attack speed, but it’s a decent auto if you aren’t in need of AoE (i.e. PvP). The scaling is similar to the first 2 hits of guardian/Warrior GS, rev sword auto or thief auto , and higher than that of mesmer sword. Keep in mind Unholy Fervor gives a damage boost.

Basically any major buff to Axe 1(Rending Claws) would require it to be a auto chain.

Axe#2 (Ghastly claws) is for life force generation. The damage isn’t as atrocious as you make it out to be , it has a 2.88 multiplier . I mean the channel is a bit long (but still shorter than Life Siphon on dagger) and could be reduced a bit. But do you really want it to have AoE? How big of an AoE? 130 range? 900 range pierce in a line?

Axe 3 (Unholy feast) is a short recharge AoE boon corrupt & cripple. The only problem with it is PBAOE , but you should be able to put up with this given that it is a fast cast.

Scepter was buffed over the top IMO… the sheer amount of condi spam is over the top , the boon corrupt pushed it further.

Why are we buffing everything ranged with AoE / pierce? We should be nerfing all the 1200 ranged AoE/pierce skills with 2.5+ multipliers less than 1 second cast time and short recharges, IMO (CoR/Gun flame/ True shot for starters). If all the ranged skills are buffed , then there is zero reason to melee.

I agree, axe is not as kittenome people trying to make it. I use it, but I also think it need more effects added to it.
skill 1 could either give .5 or1% lf.
skill 2 as I suggested before should either destroy projectiles(the spinning axe animation is already there and its perfect for that purpose) OR every foe in the range of the spinning animation in melee cone range should take damage. To clarify, the axe 2 is still single target range skill, but it also deal damage(lower then the targeted) to up to 5 foes in small 220 range cone in front. That way skill 2 will be both range single target with kind if a good damage and melee with a bit lower damage at the same time. Or if this is to hard to implement just give retaliation or protection for 3 sec.
skill 3 convert 1 additional boon per foe.

In my opinion, you’re super right in that the problem with axe isn’t so much that it’s undertuned, but that it just plain feels bad to use. For lack of a better word, it feels flaccid.

Yes I completely agree, it’s just not the power of the weapon but the feel of it that is lacking aswell. Some weapons are fun to use even if they are not very powerful, but axe just has a terrible feeling to it, at least Axe1 and Axe2.

Additionally, the 3 has zero synergy with any part of the kit! Sure, it’s a good ability for a multitude of reasons, but that doesn’t excuse it for being out-of-place and unsatisying to use.

I actually think the only satisfying skill on the Axe currently is the Axe3, though it would be better if it packed more of a punch though. Synergy etc. is different however..

I mean, just compare it to it’s condition counterpart, the scepter – that weapon has been iterated to the point of being pretty dang well designed. The auto and 2 serve different purposes and are functionally super different, and the 3 ties the whole weapon together through natural synergy – the weapon feels good to use due to good design.

Yes I also think the Scepter finally has become a well designed and useful weapon.

Very accurate, and the word choice paints a lovely mental picture. Axe just feels bland and empty. Many weapons (depending on profession) are fun, practical, and visually pleasing. The axe is just practical for niche ranged damage situations…that is it.

I agree, for a weapon that is supposed to be “furious rending with claws” it sure feels really lame.

Flow: …

I agree with what you say. I also think their reason for holding back non projectile based weapons (like Axe, and Scepter) is not a good reason; sure these attacks can’t be reflected which is a plus, but they also have minuses aswell.

Projectiles can be:
- Reflected
- Destroyed
but can also:
+ Penetrate several opponents (not uncommon)
+ Make use of Combo Finishers

Non projectile attacks cannot be reflected or destroyed, but they can’t penetrate nor use Combo Fields either, and both can be line-of-sight:ed.

No. It feels awful to use and the new animations for it just sealed the deal on not wanting to touch it ever again.

AA animation needs to be reverted. AA itself needs to be faster.

Yes something has to be done about the animation.

So here’s a fun thought:

Way back before the Pre-HoT trait rework, the Unholy Fervor trait was proposed to offer a… 2% (?) reduction in cooldown on axe skills every time an axe skill lands. This was widely criticized for obvious reasons – namely that it was undertuned.

But what if it made a return in some fashion? To give axe a unique identity not only amongst other necromancer weapons, but amongst other classes as well. What if the primary damage component of axe was frontloaded onto the 2 skill, which had a cooldown reduction mechanic based on successful axe auto hits (or even better, hitting a target that is inflicted w/ cripple – thus bringing axe 3 into the equation).

Cooldown reduction mechanics already exist outside of traits in the form of Gravedigger, and this could really tie axe together as a unique power weapon that wholly relies on “chunking” rather than steady dps.

This would of course warrant numerical rebalances.

No. It feels awful to use and the new animations for it just sealed the deal on not wanting to touch it ever again.

AA animation needs to be reverted. AA itself needs to be faster.

Also this. Rip kawaii spinning asura.

Steelstickfig.9146:

Also this. Rip kawaii spinning asura.

Let’s be clear, this is the biggest issue with axe.

But those of you saying it’s “not undertuned” or “it does enough damage”, have you actually compared the amount of damage a necro wielding an axe does compared to equivalent weapons of other classes? Or even to the scepter?

As for scepter being overtuned, same question – have you compared the damage a necro can do while wielding a scepter to that of other classes wielding their ranged weapons? It may seem overtuned in comparison to axe, but that says more about the axe right now than it does the scepter.

Dead.5829:

But those of you saying it’s “not undertuned” or “it does enough damage”, have you actually compared the amount of damage a necro wielding an axe does compared to equivalent weapons of other classes? Or even to the scepter?

As for scepter being overtuned, same question – have you compared the damage a necro can do while wielding a scepter to that of other classes wielding their ranged weapons? It may seem overtuned in comparison to axe, but that says more about the axe right now than it does the scepter.

This is definitely the most destructive thing about axe – it’s very easy to be… misled by its design. Due to it always hitting reliably and the 2 skill showing a big number after the cast, it is easy to feel as if it’s perfectly fine.

Especially since it’s our only option for ranged power damage – it doesn’t really have anything in the necro kit to be properly compared too – aside from base Death Shroud, which is also lacking in many respects.

While i would love to see axe buffed, there are advantages to axe.

• axe 1 auto is two hits in quick succession. Meaning u can remove blind or aegis and still land a quick hit. I think it is good enough with its vulnerability on hit. Mayb it could use a longer vulnerability duration to encourage more use.
• axe 2 tracks through invis. and that is great. But it breaks if the opponent kites behind u. The skill itself isnt that fantastic to warrant the stopping of the skill if the opponent moves behind u. Perhaps it could see a buff by changing it to something like dagger 2 where once it locks on the target, it is not broken by enemy’s positioning.
• axe 3 hits invis and remove a boon which is great. But the base dmg isnt that great to warrant such a long cast time. Changing this to instant cast would be nice. And possibly adding a lifeforce gain on hit to encourage more use.