Guild Wars 2

Hey arena net. All of the Axe skills are bad. Not just the Ghastly Claws. The Auto attack is especially bad. And seriously, FIX that animation. I feel extremely uncomfortable paddling my enemies to death…

they solved it indirectly

they buffed thieves and mesmers so you are dead before you realise it still sucks

Do we really want a 900 range hitscan weapon to be an extremely strong contender for raw damage? There is a reason it’s tuned as low as it is.

Sarrs.4831:

Do we really want a 900 range hitscan weapon to be an extremely strong contender for raw damage? There is a reason it’s tuned as low as it is.

Scepter is hitscan, too.

And, being honest, hitscan is a poor identity of the weapon. I’d much rather have another projectile weapon that can provide good ranged power damage and steady Life Force generation. Power Necromancer needs an alternative for Staff.

Rym.1469:

Sarrs.4831:

Do we really want a 900 range hitscan weapon to be an extremely strong contender for raw damage? There is a reason it’s tuned as low as it is.

Scepter is hitscan, too.

And, being honest, hitscan is a poor identity of the weapon. I’d much rather have another projectile weapon that can provide good ranged power damage and steady Life Force generation. Power Necromancer needs an alternative for Staff.

Why? What’s wrong with using staff? longer range, piercing, and lots of AoEs. I don’t see the problem…

bearshaman.3421:

Rym.1469:

Sarrs.4831:

Do we really want a 900 range hitscan weapon to be an extremely strong contender for raw damage? There is a reason it’s tuned as low as it is.

Scepter is hitscan, too.

And, being honest, hitscan is a poor identity of the weapon. I’d much rather have another projectile weapon that can provide good ranged power damage and steady Life Force generation. Power Necromancer needs an alternative for Staff.

Why? What’s wrong with using staff? longer range, piercing, and lots of AoEs. I don’t see the problem…

Because staf is boring and has the strangest damage distribution.

Tim.6450:

bearshaman.3421:

Rym.1469:

Sarrs.4831:

Do we really want a 900 range hitscan weapon to be an extremely strong contender for raw damage? There is a reason it’s tuned as low as it is.

Scepter is hitscan, too.

And, being honest, hitscan is a poor identity of the weapon. I’d much rather have another projectile weapon that can provide good ranged power damage and steady Life Force generation. Power Necromancer needs an alternative for Staff.

Why? What’s wrong with using staff? longer range, piercing, and lots of AoEs. I don’t see the problem…

Because staf is boring and has the strangest damage distribution.

could you or Rym elaborate? So far, your points are vague, and I need something more concrete to understand the issue.

Axe is part of those ‘midrange’ group of weapons in the game that isn’t particularly good or bad that seems to be intended to fill a gap between melee and ranged damage … that never existed. It’s not just the Axe on necro that suffers this.

I’m still pleased they still put some attention to improving the axe, despite this conceptual faux pas that midrange weapons are in this game. I do agree that it would be nice for Axe to be converts to long or melee with some appropriate changes, but I would be concerned making it melee would crowd that space too much.

What would a melee axe do that Dagger and GS doesn’t already?

bearshaman.3421:

Rym.1469:

Sarrs.4831:

Do we really want a 900 range hitscan weapon to be an extremely strong contender for raw damage? There is a reason it’s tuned as low as it is.

Scepter is hitscan, too.

And, being honest, hitscan is a poor identity of the weapon. I’d much rather have another projectile weapon that can provide good ranged power damage and steady Life Force generation. Power Necromancer needs an alternative for Staff.

Why? What’s wrong with using staff? longer range, piercing, and lots of AoEs. I don’t see the problem…

Keep in mind that everything I say applies to PvP.

It doesn’t provide much Power damage at range. Staff is a utility weapon and is fine as that. But Power Necromancer needs ranged damage once he swaps from Dagger/X. The way PvP combat works in this game, if you’re a damage dealer you need either a good ranged weapon option or reliable way to gapclose to targets.

You just can’t keep up the pressure with Staff. It has utility, but no damage you could use to burst down the target.

Not having an alternative to Staff locks you in Staff+Soul Marks combo. Both other SR Adepts would hold a great value to Power Necro – Vulnerability on Shroud 1 or shorter cooldown on Shroud+movement speed. But you need the mentioned set, because that’s your only choice of getting some Life Force at safe distance which is extremaly important at the start of fights/disengages.

Axe+X becoming an alternative to Staff for Power builds would be great, because you could fill a bit of missing Staff utility with Off-hands – Condition transfer of dagger, CC of Warhorn or Chill+Regeneration of Focus, have potentially better power damage and if Life Force generation was good enough, make other Soul Reaping Adepts an option.

bearshaman.3421:

Tim.6450:

bearshaman.3421:

Rym.1469:

Sarrs.4831:

Do we really want a 900 range hitscan weapon to be an extremely strong contender for raw damage? There is a reason it’s tuned as low as it is.

Scepter is hitscan, too.

And, being honest, hitscan is a poor identity of the weapon. I’d much rather have another projectile weapon that can provide good ranged power damage and steady Life Force generation. Power Necromancer needs an alternative for Staff.

Why? What’s wrong with using staff? longer range, piercing, and lots of AoEs. I don’t see the problem…

Because staf is boring and has the strangest damage distribution.

could you or Rym elaborate? So far, your points are vague, and I need something more concrete to understand the issue.

Ok damage distribution is quite obvious, it hangs between condition damage and power damage. It’s auto is (low) power, it’s spamable second move is condition , it’s third move is condition, it’s fourth move is power and it’s fifth does no damage at all. Honestly it is one of those bad at everything kind of deals. The old school deathly chill did wonders for this issue but now.
The reason “unfun to use” is because one all marks are all 1200 range AoE’s with long cooldowns. This makes them very non interactive: you just throw them and stuff happens. The skills you should pay atttention have a cooldown of 20 and 32. The third skill has a cooldown of 16 seconds. So basically your fast down to your# 2 and auto but your auto is low power damage and your #2 is condition damage so you don’t want to stay long there. So you create situation where you spam your #2,#3 and maybe #4 or #5 and gtfo because there is nothing meaningfull to do.

The other issue with Staff is in WvW…for some reason it doesn’t hit downed enemies (except skill 1, of course).

Axe should apply poison and weakness on its AA cycle.

Anchoku.8142:

Axe should apply poison and weakness on its AA cycle.

Ehrm… No.

This is just poor design; Permanently reducing your opponent’s healing and invalidating Power damage and dodge-rolling isn’t fun design space. Plus consider an identical case: Elixir Gun auto-attacks. E-Gun autos are slow moving projectiles that fire with a cast time of 0.83s, have identical range, and apply weakness and bleed. You’re suggesting the Necromancer Axe have auto attacks that hit twice every second, don’t use projectiles, deal greater damage, and punish our opponent even harder by getting hit by them.

Was not really serious but wanted to point out the lack of anything on axe AA to keep an opponent from kiting and resetting along with weaker power damage and a condition that no one gives high priority to clearing.

Ah I see. I don’t play pvp, and I haven’t played WvW yet, so the issues you’re having are ones I haven’t run into. Staff I’ve used as a ranged alternate weapon, when I need range or just AoEs. I haven’t used it as a main weapon really. Hybrid weapons I’m fine with (Viper, Carrion, and Rampager are hybrid stat sets after all), but I can see how this one might need some fine-tuning.

I’m one of those GS/A+F Reapers that aren’t really around much, and I’ll be honest. Axe and focus are basically just there in case I need to disengage for a minute and rebuild some quick lifeforce when fighting a big boss (the melee Jade constructs are one of those instances if I get caught in their spin)

Other than that, there’s not a whole lot to use my second weapon set. Though in PvP it does have slight use, last time I knew, in that focus five is pretty solid if you can get it to hit. Same with axe 3 (no use in pve though)

Sometimes you just gotta realise, not every weapon has to be a meta choice for pvp. It’s a casual pve weapon and will probably stay that way forever.

Lahmia.2193:

Sometimes you just gotta realise, not every weapon has to be a meta choice for pvp. It’s a casual pve weapon and will probably stay that way forever.

soo true XD

Improving weapon and giving it better identity/gameplay mechanics wouldn’t hurt casual pve at all. In fact, if weapon felt more focused, less all over the place and have different/better animated AA it would only help.

The ranged weapon problem of power necromancer can be solved with next Elite Specializations, but it limits the power necromancer to that exact choice only. It’s really better to solve the issue with core set and Axe could be the answer.

If they could change the animation, I could potentially be satisfied with Rending Claws (the auto).

Ghastly Claws, perhaps if they made it apply Cripple on each hit? Axe would become the sustained ranged damage kiting weapon. And if they try to run, the Cripple helps there too.

I dunno, just spitballing here.

I was using axe before the patch for wvw and it worked fine, but the change certainly made it better. It would still be nice if Axe #3 was a blast finisher, but baby steps in the right direction are nice.

That said, axe works fine in wvw, I would never dream of using it in spvp since I can’t get the same stat distribution as in wvw.

As someone said above, It’s one of those you use when you need to make some space to cool off after taking a load of damage to increase your life-force and then go back in, or when there’s a load of boons to take of something.

Don’t worry guys, by the time of the next expansion they’ll finally get time to give a meaninglessly small buff to Axe again. Maybe we’ll even get a few CD reductions randomly spattered on our skills again.

Bhawb.7408:

Don’t worry guys, by the time of the next expansion they’ll finally get time to give a meaninglessly small buff to Axe again. Maybe we’ll even get a few CD reductions randomly spattered on our skills again.

Don’t forget the nerfing of something due to some other class’ strengths or something that hasn’t even come out yet.

I thought about digging through all of the patch notes for the last four years and making a list of all the times axe has been buffed but then decided to leave off.

As Lahmia referred, axe’s primary use is in PvE for small groups and solo MM where vulnerability stacking significantly improves dps… and range is needed… and staff is not better because it is 1v1.

I do use axe for the above reasons.

Tim.6450:

Because staf is boring and has the strangest damage distribution.

So true… I hate the long cooldowns and it’s not optimal for power Necros (too many conditions).

Axe is one of the perfect example of the necromancer’s design :

a) Good and even borderline overpowered in theory :

- AA and burst skill pass through all projectile hate.
- Utility unholy feast is an aoe cripple, damage, retaliation provider and boon corruptor skill which is totally awesome on the paper

b) Perform poorly in reality :

- The consecutive low damage on AA, with a probably terribly bad coefficient make it unimpressive and boring. With what i’ve seen oover these 4 and half year I don’t think the axe AA even come close to, say, even the ranger’s lonbow AA which is imped by the fact that they have a pet as damage support.
- No combo projectile. Yes, it’s an important loss in DPS as well as utility. The axe trade damage and combo for being able to pass through projectile hate. (I feel it’s a big high of cost)
- Unholy feast is not worse the theoretical value. The main reason being that retaliation underperform in everypart of the game. Well… that is a bit of an overstatement, I agree that retaliation on the karka defender perform well, but it does twice the damage of what a player can do.

As for the staff… :
- AA : slow projectile, pitiable damages
- mark are only good to tag pack of monsters or to generate some LF thanks to a trait. Reaper’s mark is somewhat usefull when used properly.

Let’s not forget that Unholy fervor is terribly designed. A weapon trait should offer utility not straight up dmg. While reduced CD on weapon traits can be a boost in dmg you might not always need it if that weapon is used as a secondary you don’t use too long before swapping back. Not taking Unholy fervor just shoots you in the foot if you use axe as the vuln will 99% of the cases be there anyway. The focus trait is better. It rewards you for actively keeping boons off foes. The fact that it’s a adept trait so the difference is really minor doesn’t change the fact it’s better designed.

Provide one single justification for necro staff auto not doing as much damage as ele fire staff auto

Tobias.8632:

Provide one single justification for necro staff auto not doing as much damage as ele fire staff auto

Uh… Uh…. Lifeforce! It contributes to shroud! Yeah, that!

Vydahr.4285:

Tobias.8632:

Provide one single justification for necro staff auto not doing as much damage as ele fire staff auto

Uh… Uh…. Lifeforce! It contributes to shroud! Yeah, that!

Pierce, 5 targets instead of 3, projectile finisher

Axe is for shroud-focused builds. The weapon all but screams at you “I’m not for auto-attacking.” Using it that way, it’s beyond terrible- because that’s not what it’s for. If you want to deal high, consistent damage out of shroud you can grab dagger or GS.

It is Known. The point of Axe is burst LF generation. A/F will generate a third or more of a bar of LF in a few seconds with Touch, Shivers (if you’ve got Chilling Victory), then Claws. (That’s roughly double what Soul Marks will give in that time, even blowing all 4 mark cooldowns.) By the time you’ve got that done, you’ve got a couple more seconds to drop a shout or a well or something, then get back in shroud until your LF drops to about 60% and you do it again.

Tobias.8632:

Provide one single justification for necro staff auto not doing as much damage as ele fire staff auto

You should compare it to revenant hammer auto. They are more similiar but the hammer auto is a 100% projectile finisher does more damage (hammer coefficient:0.95 and staff:0.666) and has defacto faster attackspeed (1.25 is hammer and our staff is 1.4) and i think the projectile speed is also higher but i could be wrong on this one.

Necro staff = Thief shortbow. Boring, flawed in design but you still need to use it for the utility it brings. Thieves nowadays got rid of the shortbow, and can play another weapon set. Necro needs that too.

Necro Staff fix – I personally don’t care about the axe at all – Loopgru (loup garou?) got everything you need to know about axe out of the way already.

The coefficients are way too low. They should be on par with the elementalist fire attunement staff coefficients.

1) Necrotic Grasp – increase the coefficient to 1.0 from it’s current 0.6, and buff it’s base damage from 260 to 350. (Brings it near Fireball, without the AoE, but with the 4% LF generation.)

2) Mark of Blood – Compared to Lava Font, this is ridiculously underpowered (isn’t everything though, when compared to lava font?) In addition to 2 stacks for 8s of bleed, add 4s cripple, and increase the base damage from 129 (lols) to 300.

3) Chillblains – The only boost to this I can see asking for is boon removal.

4) Putrid Mark – needs a minor boost to it’s base damage – from 500 to maybe 650, but it actually has a decent coefficient, and good utility.

5) Reaper’s Mark – increase it’s base damage from 92 (lols) to ~ 500, and boost that coefficient to .8 from it’s silly low .25

All of these together would still make staff necro markedly (ha) inferior to fire attuned ele, but would finally make ranged direct damage something more than a pipe dream.

(EDIT to change Mark of Blood, due to tooltip anomaly for Lava Font.)

stale.9785:

2) Mark of Blood – Compared to Lava Font, this is ridiculously underpowered (isn’t everything though, when compared to lava font?) In addition to 2 stacks for 8s of bleed, add 4s cripple, and increase the base damage from 129 (lols) to 1200, to match LF.

Are you high? Lava Font lists all its damage rather than each hit. You want an instant 5 man spamable skill to do 1200 base damage? Lava Font is easy to dodge out of and doesn’t do damage upon cast. Sure Mark of Blood could use a bit of a boost, but your “balancing” is just crazy overpowered.

Lahmia.2193:

stale.9785:

2) Mark of Blood – Compared to Lava Font, this is ridiculously underpowered (isn’t everything though, when compared to lava font?) In addition to 2 stacks for 8s of bleed, add 4s cripple, and increase the base damage from 129 (lols) to 1200, to match LF.

Are you high? Lava Font lists all its damage rather than each hit. You want an instant 5 man spamable skill to do 1200 base damage? Lava Font is easy to dodge out of and doesn’t do damage upon cast. Sure Mark of Blood could use a bit of a boost, but your “balancing” is just crazy overpowered.

I hadn’t realised the Lava Font tooltip was the exception to how tooltips work in-game. (Seriously, Hundred Blades, Whirling Wrath, Rapid Fire, Splitblade, etc, all list the damage from their individual hits, not the total.)
Fine, boost the base damage of Mark of Blood from 129 to 300, to put it at 1/4 the damage of Lava Font.
:-)

stale.9785:

Lahmia.2193:

stale.9785:

2) Mark of Blood – Compared to Lava Font, this is ridiculously underpowered (isn’t everything though, when compared to lava font?) In addition to 2 stacks for 8s of bleed, add 4s cripple, and increase the base damage from 129 (lols) to 1200, to match LF.

Are you high? Lava Font lists all its damage rather than each hit. You want an instant 5 man spamable skill to do 1200 base damage? Lava Font is easy to dodge out of and doesn’t do damage upon cast. Sure Mark of Blood could use a bit of a boost, but your “balancing” is just crazy overpowered.

I hadn’t realised the Lava Font tooltip was the exception to how tooltips work in-game. (Seriously, Hundred Blades, Whirling Wrath, Rapid Fire, Splitblade, etc, all list the damage from their individual hits, not the total.)
Fine, boost the base damage of Mark of Blood from 129 to 300, to put it at 1/4 the damage of Lava Font.
:-)

I’m… fairly certain all skills show number of hits, and how much damage happens over the course of those hits….

Vydahr.4285:

stale.9785:

Lahmia.2193:

stale.9785:

2) Mark of Blood – Compared to Lava Font, this is ridiculously underpowered (isn’t everything though, when compared to lava font?) In addition to 2 stacks for 8s of bleed, add 4s cripple, and increase the base damage from 129 (lols) to 1200, to match LF.

Are you high? Lava Font lists all its damage rather than each hit. You want an instant 5 man spamable skill to do 1200 base damage? Lava Font is easy to dodge out of and doesn’t do damage upon cast. Sure Mark of Blood could use a bit of a boost, but your “balancing” is just crazy overpowered.

I hadn’t realised the Lava Font tooltip was the exception to how tooltips work in-game. (Seriously, Hundred Blades, Whirling Wrath, Rapid Fire, Splitblade, etc, all list the damage from their individual hits, not the total.)
Fine, boost the base damage of Mark of Blood from 129 to 300, to put it at 1/4 the damage of Lava Font.
:-)

I’m… fairly certain all skills show number of hits, and how much damage happens over the course of those hits….

Gronk – the wiki says you’re absolutely correct – https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage

I’ve somehow been reading the tooltips wrong for four bloody years, despite playing daily. Hell, I’ve used the damage calculation thousands of times (damage done = [weapon strength] * Power * [skill-specific coefficient] / [target’s Armor]).

Well now.

@stale
Just so you know for power there is no such thing as base damage because of how the formula works. There is no base + scaling coefficient there is ONLY the coefficient.

The reason the wiki shoes those numbers is since that’s the tooltip with the lowest your power can go ( 1000 )

Example:5) Reaper’s Mark – increase it’s base damage from 92 (lols) to ~ 500, and boost that coefficient to .8 from it’s silly low .25

This would be impossible since with a scaling of 0.8 the “base damage” would be about 322. To have a “base damage” of 500ish you would need a scaling of around 1.2. You cannot untie the two because of how the formula,which you correctly stated,works.

Sigmoid.7082:

@stale
Just so you know for power there is no such thing as base damage because of how the formula works. There is no base + scaling coefficient there is ONLY the coefficient.

The reason the wiki shoes those numbers is since that’s the tooltip with the lowest your power can go ( 1000 )

Example:5) Reaper’s Mark – increase it’s base damage from 92 (lols) to ~ 500, and boost that coefficient to .8 from it’s silly low .25

This would be impossible since with a scaling of 0.8 the “base damage” would be about 322. To have a “base damage” of 500ish you would need a scaling of around 1.2. You cannot untie the two because of how the formula,which you correctly stated,works.

Yeah, as soon as I looked at the actual damage page, I realized this. Math is my friend, even if, apparently, attention to detail isn’t.

Loopgru.1026:

Axe is for shroud-focused builds. The weapon all but screams at you “I’m not for auto-attacking.” Using it that way, it’s beyond terrible- because that’s not what it’s for. If you want to deal high, consistent damage out of shroud you can grab dagger or GS.

It is Known. The point of Axe is burst LF generation. A/F will generate a third or more of a bar of LF in a few seconds with Touch, Shivers (if you’ve got Chilling Victory), then Claws. (That’s roughly double what Soul Marks will give in that time, even blowing all 4 mark cooldowns.) By the time you’ve got that done, you’ve got a couple more seconds to drop a shout or a well or something, then get back in shroud until your LF drops to about 60% and you do it again.

That’s exactly the problem. Reaper traits are very important to Power DPS. And that means that you end up with a ranged weapon and melee shroud. Doesn’t sound good.

Axe is good for applying Vulnerability and will proc a few more stacks of Siphoned Power.

Some fast tests on Kitty golems with full buffs and with only self-buffs only:
GS/Axe ratio is 1.32 with full buffs and all the way down to 1.07 with self-buffs only. So I wouldn’t say Axe is bad, it just doesn’t work well with group buffs.

AndyS.5630:

Loopgru.1026:

Axe is for shroud-focused builds. The weapon all but screams at you “I’m not for auto-attacking.” Using it that way, it’s beyond terrible- because that’s not what it’s for. If you want to deal high, consistent damage out of shroud you can grab dagger or GS.

It is Known. The point of Axe is burst LF generation. A/F will generate a third or more of a bar of LF in a few seconds with Touch, Shivers (if you’ve got Chilling Victory), then Claws. (That’s roughly double what Soul Marks will give in that time, even blowing all 4 mark cooldowns.) By the time you’ve got that done, you’ve got a couple more seconds to drop a shout or a well or something, then get back in shroud until your LF drops to about 60% and you do it again.

That’s exactly the problem. Reaper traits are very important to Power DPS. And that means that you end up with a ranged weapon and melee shroud. Doesn’t sound good.

Axe is good for applying Vulnerability and will proc a few more stacks of Siphoned Power.

Some fast tests on Kitty golems with full buffs and with only self-buffs only:
GS/Axe ratio is 1.32 with full buffs and all the way down to 1.07 with self-buffs only. So I wouldn’t say Axe is bad, it just doesn’t work well with group buffs.

You also have to take into account what you’re fighting. If you’re fighting something that hops around a lot, the time spent chasing the target eats into the ideal DPS. Many HoT bosses (or mobs, really), enemies in spvp/wvw, etc. aren’t going to stay in that 130 range the entire time.

a lot of people take staff over axe for the reason that staff has utility and axe doesnt
i think if they changed the axe like this it would be taken a lot more
1) rending claws remove vuln, add 2% lifeforce gain per hit
2)change unholy feast to spectral grasp, remove chill decrease range, decrease lifeforce gain to 10% change cooldown to 20
3)unholy fervor chalnnge remove damge bonus vs vu targets, rending claws now applies vulnerability, all other axe skills apply chill per hit 2 seconds

now your axe has reliable lifeforce generation with the possiblitity of generation a lot of lifeforce, it can help you chase people and single people out.

Hesacon.8735:

You also have to take into account what you’re fighting. If you’re fighting something that hops around a lot, the time spent chasing the target eats into the ideal DPS. Many HoT bosses (or mobs, really), enemies in spvp/wvw, etc. aren’t going to stay in that 130 range the entire time.

And that’s one more reason for Tempest shining in raid DPS. Not only can they deal the highest damage, but also they have higher range.

It’s okay that Axe damage is lower than GS or Dagger/X because range is useful. It’s not okay that with full raid buffs difference is that big.

Might be about that time to give up on power necro. Its been 4 years. Unlike other classes’ power spec that has seen the limelight at some point, necro’s power build has always been horrible, easy to outplay, vunerable to almost everything.

Its pretty clear there is no intention of making necro’s power spec sensible, so unless the devs for necro are finally changed, threads like this are just falling on blind eyes.

Nice there are newer players to keep the dream alive though

Ragion.2831:

Might be about that time to give up on power necro. Its been 4 years. Unlike other classes’ power spec that has seen the limelight at some point, necro’s power build has always been horrible, easy to outplay, vunerable to almost everything.

Its pretty clear there is no intention of making necro’s power spec sensible, so unless the devs for necro are finally changed, threads like this are just falling on blind eyes.

Nice there are newer players to keep the dream alive though

No, Reaper was in the limelight for a few, brief, glorious months after HoT came out. I remember wrecking in team fights in PvP with my shout build and it was wonderful. Now, though, there’s condi creep. And what hope does power have against that?

for pve axe is great using a mm build axe/focus gs , and a staff in my bag because staff can Always come in handy saved my life few times

Vydahr.4285:

Ragion.2831:

Might be about that time to give up on power necro. Its been 4 years. Unlike other classes’ power spec that has seen the limelight at some point, necro’s power build has always been horrible, easy to outplay, vunerable to almost everything.

Its pretty clear there is no intention of making necro’s power spec sensible, so unless the devs for necro are finally changed, threads like this are just falling on blind eyes.

Nice there are newer players to keep the dream alive though

No, Reaper was in the limelight for a few, brief, glorious months after HoT came out. I remember wrecking in team fights in PvP with my shout build and it was wonderful. Now, though, there’s condi creep. And what hope does power have against that?

condi creep happened when the forumlae was changed mid last year not with HoT. Also reaper isnt power, reaper is reaper. Condi builds use reaper. Condi builds were considered better than power builds during the early days of HoT because of chill damage not because of a slow motion stun skill.

Ragion.2831:

Also reaper isnt power, reaper is reaper.

Excuse me, but as it comes to damage Reaper is clearly a power-oriented line. If that still keeps condi superior then we clearly have some problems elsewhere.