Guild Wars 2

For a power build scepter does more damage then axe.

Not that scepter does good damage in a power build but axe damage is that bad.

If you have 200 or so splash condition damage scepter really pulls ahead over the axe in damage.

With very high crit rate 55% of so axe does start to pull ahead of scepter in a power build.

Why is axe so terrible?

Another comparison is that axe 1 do about as much damage as staff 1, but with half the range and no pierce.

Facepalm so hard. Scepter is based off precision and condition damage, axe is based off power.

Axe is not terrible just the idiots that can’t build right.

TanMan.1374:

Axe is not terrible just the idiots that can’t build right.

….and Hitler wasn’t evil, he was just misunderstood.

was gonna say. the heck? both scepter and axe suck for power builds, axe is only viable for good range and grandmaster spite trait… even the alternative gm spite trait makes that obsolete too..

Yeah it’s true lol.

Just swapped my axe for sceptre for my well rounded stats.

The direct dmg on sceptre isn’t too far off compared to Axe, but with the extra bleeds on top.

But who am I kidding? I stay in staff about 99% of the time anyway.

Staff/Death Shroud is my real weapon set. lol

TanMan.1374:

Facepalm so hard. Scepter is based off precision and condition damage, axe is based off power.

Axe is not terrible just the idiots that can’t build right.

Is this true? Scepter also gain from power right since scepter 1 do both direct dmg and D.O.T dmg.

@ Tanman,

Faceplam right back at you go the the mists stack power and test the damage of scepter vs axe, use the three attacks for each weapon as you see fit watch what weapons dropped the targets faster. Scepter is higher so whatever you ‘think’ scepter is ‘based on’ the truth is axe is so bad as a power weapon it gets outdone but the ‘condition weapon’.

I like many necros thought axe was fine because i did fine with my power well build… Nope scepter is better it turns out. I wish I did more testing before i got my exotic axe…

Axe is great if you superglue your 1 key so you can’t accidentally press it.

wel.. The axe 1 x does (2x) x 170 and sectper 1 first attack do 85 and 170 bleed dmg.

wel.. The axe 1 x does (2x) x 170 and sectper 1 first attack do 85 and 170 bleed dmg.This info did i find on the gw2skills builder, so even with no gear the scepter do more dmg only on the first attack.

Yes and the scepters 3rd attack in the number 1 chain also hits harder.

Can’t figure out why A-net made axe so bad. Really cant figure out why some necros think the axe is anything other then terrible…. do people actually test things vs other options?

Scepter 1 does do direct damage, but it’s a pretty pathetic amount and you won’t get very good returns from a power build. A crit/condition build will do very nicely though, since crits proc conditions and benefit directs damage skills (like dagger or DS) at the same time.

Xom.9264:

Can’t figure out why A-net made axe so bad. Really cant figure out why some necros think the axe is anything other then terrible…. do people actually test things vs other options?

The problem was vulnerability got changed just before release, so huge stacks (like in dynamic event bosses) weren’t overpowered. Axe was never adjusted to make up for it.

Rhyse, have you tested that? if we are talking only about the #1 attack, axe is complete garbage, and scepter, with its ability to put bleeds and poison on a target does way more damage in the short and long term than axe. Granted axe 2 with the 3 retaliation is not bad, but the axe 1 damage is just complete crap. And vulner compared to condition damage is piss.

hehe been saying this for weeks that sceptre > axe for power builds its not only the damage wich is higher its also the range 900 vs 600.. axe damage is just sad..

@Gryph: the only reason someone could use Axe is for 3 skill. 1 and 2 is just trash, the damage is awful and they have no effect it is worth using other than damage.
Since Necros have awful traitlines, Axe needs a huge buff damage wise, almost double the damage to the autoattack and half the damage to Ghastly Claws to be viable.

TanMan.1374:

Facepalm so hard. Scepter is based off precision and condition damage, axe is based off power.

Axe is not terrible just the idiots that can’t build right.

calling people an idiot then not realizing scepter is a condition dmg spec item and then saying its based on “prec”…when conditions can not crit…facepalm scepter is a power/condition item AXE is a power/prec item because its base atks CAN crit and infact is not a condition spec item…now u know and knowing is half the battle-

Gryph.8237:

Rhyse, have you tested that? if we are talking only about the #1 attack, axe is complete garbage, and scepter, with its ability to put bleeds and poison on a target does way more damage in the short and long term than axe. Granted axe 2 with the 3 retaliation is not bad, but the axe 1 damage is just complete crap. And vulner compared to condition damage is piss.

That’s pretty much what I said. Axe was balanced around the vuln on 1 being useful; vuln got nerf, and axe with it.

You cant exactly compare Scepter to Axe and say its better because of the 1 skill. Anyone just spamming 1 should be playing a Thief not Necromancer.

Axe isn’t what it use to be in beta, but it can still put out alot of damage. With the current rendering issue and stealth abuse in this game non-targeting AoE’s (Unholy Feast, Life Transfer) are very strong and Ghastly Claws is the fastest channeling multi-hitting skill we have.

As someone pointed out scepter isn’t a precision scaling weapon, its power like every other weapon in-game however scepters damage would benefit from points in the precision tree (aka condition damage) which i think what was implied by TanMan.1374.

I did not say its better because of the 1 skill. I said make a power build use axe and scepter 1-3 skills as you see fit. Scepter does more damage.

Yes thats including Ghastly Claws.

Yes at around 50-55% crit axe starts to pull ahead. However 50-55% crit is not viable for a necro in spvp or tpvp. Also scepter pulls ahead of axe again with high crit if you have around 200-300 condition damage splash.

30/25/x/x/x power build scepter out shines axe in a major way.

Min/maxer will test it or already have with control steady pvp weapons and with normal weapons.

What are you talking about scepter does not scale with precision it scales the same as the axe… have you even tested it? There is a small window with high crit and gastly claws that axe passes scepter however add some condition damage like 200-300 and scepter is back on top. Go with a 30/25/x/x/x build its it wayyyy on top.

Now in response to your jab at me saying I should play a thief if I want to spam. You are a wvw hero that is mistaking in thinking he is good at pvp, with full exotic gear any idiot can rule in wvw. I run full knights exotic and faceroll over the undergeared people in wvw 2 v 1 3 v 1 even a 6 v 1 against a melee guild that stood in my wells, give people even gear and basic skill levels like you see in spvp and tpvp and you wont be doing that.

i dont realy care if i do xx% more dmg with scepter, i like the axe more. It gives good anout of retaliation and vurnability what i can spread with my epidemic

It’s my understanding axe is for use with minions do to vulnerability, and for deathshroud builds due to having highest raw DS/second generation off using 2 on cooldown (uninterrputed). It still blows dick, that said.

Axe was over-nerfed from beta so it now pulls behind the scepter. Scepter is a mixed damage weapon so it works well with conditions or power builds. In a power build you have the advantage of spamming poison to mess up heals to make up for your lack swing speed vs the axe.

If axe 1 was brought up so it scaled better off of power it would work fine.

Ahhh Xom so you know about me then and have watched my videos, how kind of you

Well seen as you’ve provided no evidence as such ive taken the time to just for you!

This is the time from first damage to death for Axe (7.24 seconds)
This is the time from first damage to death for Scepter (10.09 seconds)

Stats for Axe
Stats for Scepter
Traits

Axe 1 vs Scepter 2
Now comparing the utility of both or even direct vs condition damage. Conditions are too easily removed in this game, almost every class has multiple ways of removing or even transferring conditions to boons which is a vital blow if the bleed stack from scepter is removed as that’s 47% of the damage per scepter hit.

Axe 3 vs Scepter 2 (Cripples)
Scepters cripple effect is a placeable AoE, this means quite simply, it can miss. Its affect area of 240 with range of 900 is trumped by Axes cripple AoE of 1200. Axes cripple is a cripple full stop, unless they dodge roll out of range or block its going to hit. It hits people in stealth and ive killed a fair few people that way and grants retaliation which reflects (at least for me in WvW) 300 – 400 per hit.

Axe 2 vs Scepter 3
Firstly Ghastly claws vastly out damages Feast of Corruption, infact Ghastly Claws is the fastest multiple striking skill we have. Ghastly Claws grants 8% life force on a full channel, Feast of Corruption grants 2% per condition (so at least 4 conditions to match Ghastly Claws LF)

I hope you enjoyed this tutorial on the Necromancer class, and hope you carry on watching my videos!

Good Job Ascii!

But evenw ith those test, I skill think Axe would deserve a little buff.

It’s not bad, but Dagger just seems to do better!

Sure, once you use all 3 of the weapon skills, axe can drop someone faster than scepter.

But comparing only auto to auto, the axe is the slowest and shortest ranged of the two. Never mind that with the 600 range (was 1200 at launch, had some unfortunate ecounters with svanir’s thanks to that) of axe 3 you’re liable to attract more trouble than it is worth.

I guess that is one issue I have with the axe, it is the only MH weapon where the auto-attack is not the primary damage skill. Dagger, staff, scepter, all use 2&3 to augment the output of 1, but axe use 1 to augment the output of 2 by stacking vulnerability on the target.

Heck it may well be the only weapon skill set that works that way in the whole game.

And there is nothing wrong about that. I love having a different weapon

But buffing it would help a lot :P stack more vulnerability or Add something more to number 2.

Number 1-2 of Axe just lack anything appealing.

1. Damage + Vul, no combo.

1. Damage and lifeforce.

As was pointed here or elsewhere, vulnerability got a change right before release.

Best i can tell, it used to reduce armor. Now it increases damage done. What i wonder is if increase damage before armor is accounted for or after. In either case, the change is only 1% pr stack unit, maxing out at 25%. Axe 1 alone can reach 9-10% meaning 10 for each 100 damage done (or adding the damage of 1 extra attack every 10 attacks, meaning that a fast weapon will get more out it than a slow one).

Funny thing is that the power from might do not do much better. But might also adds directly to condition damage, potentially increasing each tick there by 100+.

I did exactly the same thing ascii did with sceptre vs axe and my findings are a lot different then his..

my youtube video :

granted i tested with both pvp mistitems since i dont have any exotics i only pvp.. dont pve..

both items had :

5% crit
5% damage runes

Axe time with start 3 build up 1 then 2 then 1 to finish it off :

16.15

Sceptre time with start 2 then spam 1 then eventually 3 and spam 1 to death

13.24 (notice the 1072 and 1121 auto atk crit compared to the axe 875 crit)

sceptre wins in my case

and this is exactly how it feels to me in game too in spvp and tpvp the sceptre jsut pulls ahead + it has the benefit of the poison + bleed and the 300 increase in range makes it a much safer alternative to the axe and its 600 range.

i personally never saw any reason for the axe its a horrible weapon in spvp and tpvp i cant comment on wvwww tho.. staff is great for defense sceptre good for stacking dots on condition build and if you hate staff for power pretty decent for power builds too, dagger great for power builds.. and axe.. axe is just lagging behind it all and is by some overrated imo but ah well what can you say..?!

They prmised us Cleave with axe. Why is Axe so terribad?
If they did nothing else but add a cleave to Axe1, that would already buff it considerably.
Every other Axe has cleave.
hell, with my Spite/Curses tree I do around 1k Damage with Scepter3 without going full power.
What is wrong with that? Everything!

Ascii.9726:

Ahhh Xom so you know about me then and have watched my videos, how kind of you

Well seen as you’ve provided no evidence as such ive taken the time to just for you!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g8nELNhlNQ

This is the time from first damage to death for Axe (7.24 seconds)
This is the time from first damage to death for Scepter (10.09 seconds)

Stats for Axe
Stats for Scepter
Traits

Axe 1 vs Scepter 2
Now comparing the utility of both or even direct vs condition damage. Conditions are too easily removed in this game, almost every class has multiple ways of removing or even transferring conditions to boons which is a vital blow if the bleed stack from scepter is removed as that’s 47% of the damage per scepter hit.

Axe 3 vs Scepter 2 (Cripples)
Scepters cripple effect is a placeable AoE, this means quite simply, it can miss. Its affect area of 240 with range of 900 is trumped by Axes cripple AoE of 1200. Axes cripple is a cripple full stop, unless they dodge roll out of range or block its going to hit. It hits people in stealth and ive killed a fair few people that way and grants retaliation which reflects (at least for me in WvW) 300 – 400 per hit.

Axe 2 vs Scepter 3
Firstly Ghastly claws vastly out damages Feast of Corruption, infact Ghastly Claws is the fastest multiple striking skill we have. Ghastly Claws grants 8% life force on a full channel, Feast of Corruption grants 2% per condition (so at least 4 conditions to match Ghastly Claws LF)

I hope you enjoyed this tutorial on the Necromancer class, and hope you carry on watching my videos!

Ascii I appreciate the breakdown and I agree with what you have said. Conversely, I think one of the things you have forgotten is the dmg from bleeds/poison that adds to the damage. Diminishing power just a bit, to add condition damage, can match and in my opinion surpass damage from axe (from a greater distance).

barti.7685:

I did exactly the same thing ascii did with sceptre vs axe and my findings are a lot different then his..

my youtube video :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P2haD_2URs

granted i tested with both pvp mistitems since i dont have any exotics i only pvp.. dont pve..

both items had :

5% crit
5% damage runes

Axe time with start 3 build up 1 then 2 then 1 to finish it off :

16.15

Sceptre time with start 2 then spam 1 then eventually 3 and spam 1 to death

13.24 (notice the 1072 and 1121 auto atk crit compared to the axe 875 crit)

sceptre wins in my case

and this is exactly how it feels to me in game too in spvp and tpvp the sceptre jsut pulls ahead + it has the benefit of the poison + bleed and the 300 increase in range makes it a much safer alternative to the axe and its 600 range.

i personally never saw any reason for the axe its a horrible weapon in spvp and tpvp i cant comment on wvwww tho.. staff is great for defense sceptre good for stacking dots on condition build and if you hate staff for power pretty decent for power builds too, dagger great for power builds.. and axe.. axe is just lagging behind it all and is by some overrated imo but ah well what can you say..?!

I would like to see your build, traits and runes for that so i can see why it took you 3 times longer to kill the golem with Axe then i did, also double ghastly claws would of been doable and greater then one ghastly claws with 8% more damage.

Gryph.8237:

Ascii I appreciate the breakdown and I agree with what you have said. Conversely, I think one of the things you have forgotten is the dmg from bleeds/poison that adds to the damage. Diminishing power just a bit, to add condition damage, can match and in my opinion surpass damage from axe (from a greater distance).

The damage in the tests was including the bleeds and poisons :O, also remember that the full damage of Scepter can only be counted if the bleed & poison stays on the target for the full duration which was the point i was trying to make.

Axe damage is pure, guaranteed damage and Scepter is damage over time that can be removed and with the state of the game in terms of boons and conditions at the moment, conditions are too easily removed to rely on them in large scale PvP.

Just also note im only comparing the use of Axe over Scepter in WvW / main map, not SPvP. I do spend the majority of my time in WvW and i find Axe just out preforms in there then Scepter in power builds. In SPvP you cant reach the critical damage % you can in WvW.

Not sure if it has a massive impact, but i counted 11 axe crits in Ascii’s video, vs 8 in Barti’s.

the build i run is just the run of a mill 30-0-10-0-30 power focused with berserker amulet build the runes in the weapons are 5% crit 5% force on both to make the comparison more fair the runes in my armor are also the same there the runes of the centaur wich doesnt favor any of those 2 weapons and none of the 2 comparison had the lightning strike trigger.

its just a basic fair comparison with a very popular power focused build for necromancers. i think if you get the crit higher the axe might get on ahead.. but i like my stability it helps with stomping wich is very vital for a glass cannon power necromancer.

but lets say for argument sake they are equal wich i think they arent but ok for arguments sake..for power builds..

they shouldn’t be equal in dps because one has a 600 and one has a 900 range one is a dot stacking weapon while the other should be a power weapon. it’s jut not fair for the power build necro out there the axe should do more damage then what it does right now. even the grandmaster trait wich increases its damage by what.. 10% doesnt justify going full out axe if you compare it with the dagger.

the 600 range to me and probably to a lot of people is just as good as 150 range.. 600 makes kiting just incredible hard.. there so many gap closers in that 600 range

leaps
whirls
rushes

at 900 range you can see those at least comming the 600 range makes it just a lot harder to react in time their so fast in your face..

and yes axe got retaliation and cripple but honestly retaliation in a glass cannon world where thiefs backstab you for 10k+cnd 5k steal mug 4k+ whirlwind hits you for 3 times for 8k+heartseeker hits for 4k+ and a lot higher that 340 damage you reflect back isnt gonna scare many of them .. and every class got some ranged potential retaliation still doesnt justify the axe as a great power weapon. i think retaliation is nice for a toughness build /vit build a build that can take some hits but not in a glass cannon world..

in a glass cannon world you don’t want people to hit you at all because with sub 2k armor their burst is gonna hurt a lot.

I think the axe shouldnt even be close to the sceptre as it stands now. axe range should be increased to 900 or the damage needs to be 20% higher as it is right now for the risk vs reward rule.. 600 range is good but at least makes it have more reward on a power spec then the 900 sceptre espcially since its a power weapon..

Axe does much more damage for me using 30-0-10-0-30 power crit build. The sceptre bleed do 200 damage every 5 seconds. The axe attacks hit harder and dish out the damage up front especially when you have might or use the 20% more damage when enemy is less than 50%.

If you’re going to be testing, you start with a 0 traits test to use as a baseline, and only add in the various traits after that. Otherwise, you’ll be testing builds, and not weapons.

I am happy to see people trying it out however thats not how you test something….

I use steady and normal weapons for each sample size is at least 50 times for each weapon.

Very key here the baseline test was at 1800 power No crit No traits with steady weapons. Then at 2200 power No crit No traits (results axe gained a little ground but was still behind)

Then i did No crit No Traits with 1800 power and normal weapons. Then at 2200 hundred power No crit No traits. These is the better test with normal weapons I did it 50 times with each weapon at both power levels.

Now when I added traits it was for a real pvp setting test for the build I wanted to test including my offhand. So target the weak focus offhand I did have chill, vuln, bleed, crip and poison on the target when I did scepters Feast.

Back on topic do a larger sample size use soldiers amulet to remove the high crit… you will get the same findings I did specter kills the target faster.

Take crit out of the picture to start if you test with crit you must do hundreds of tests then average out the results…

P.S. I know you are a wvw only player but power builds for necros in spvp/tpvp use soldiers amulet crit rate is not that high…. Also you are wrong back down your statements are going to get stomped if you continue.

Rhyse.8176:

If you’re going to be testing, you start with a 0 traits test to use as a baseline, and only add in the various traits after that. Otherwise, you’ll be testing builds, and not weapons.

But the comparison here is Axe vs. Scepter in Power builds, not Axe vs. Scepter as weapons.

The problem is there is no real ‘Power’ build that doesn’t use high critical chance. Testing Axe vs. Scepter damage in a full power build with no crit Scepter will come out on top because of its DoT damage combined with normal hits. Add in a average 50% critical chance and Axe will out preform because its base damage plus critical will out damage Scepter on average.

I wont lie though, in the multiple tests i did (afew with 16% crit 0% damage and a few with identical boosted power and condition damage 30,30,0,0,10, Divinity runes) the results were different. A few scepters out-preformed axe and most other times it was +/- 1 second from axe.

But then that brings me onto the issue of what everyone defines as a ‘Power’ build, and when does it stop becoming power and start becoming a hybrid build. For me, a Power build is;

30/20, 25 (If using multiple conditions i.e Blind, Chill, Bleed, Immobilize & Vulnerability from my Chill build) or 30 (If using Withering Precision)/0/0/10, 15, 20 (depending on remaining)
At least 50% critical hit chance including Sigil.

All in all im not trying to say Scepter is weak, or non usable in power builds quite the opposite actually im just saying Axe isn’t as terrible as everyone is making it out to be. Granted it wasn’t what it was in the betas with the damage and vulnerability nurf.

Note: i will be buying a Scepter to use in WvW this week to give it a good try with my build, ill get back to you on that on Friday!

i have only just started necro and just messing with builds so my opinion is really just an opinion, no test no nothing but the thread title lured me here with the word “build”. and after reading all the posts with builds and numbers and stuff i found myself needing to ask a simple question, why are you guys including scepter in a power build discussion? from all i can tell the scepter skills and trait kinda make it obvious that its a condition rounded weapon right?
Also i noticed many of you guys are simply comparing axe vs scepter with only a few including the 2nd part (power build) in your discussion. i mean i am playing a scepter/focus + dagger conditiomancer so my word has little weight on this issue but i see power builds as focusing around a few weapon sets.
1) staff with all the marks along with traits to up their dmg and range and staff recharge. maybe to go along with placeable wells or something?
2) axe+focus for those who want to kite stuff axe is low-mid ranged and focus stacks vul and gives chill to enhance kiting. builds for this can go many ways from might/chill stacking to well maximisation, i dunno i have seen a few axe users and none of them play the same.
3) dagger/warhorn for those who want to get up close and personal with the mob, dagger offers fast attacks with life steal and disable while warhorn gives another disable and dmg enhancer( + gap closer-like swiftness?) i seen necros with this going in and throwing out wells and stuff with their disables ensuring the enemy stays in there and i really respect the good ones who pull out ds at opportune/ critical moments where they can do the most dmg or save themselves, personally i do not have the instinct for that thats why i play condition
And all of these build revolve around DS and the good use of it

So now we come to scepter….. i dunno…. i play conditiomancer + chills ( inspired by Ascii’s mr freeze build) and have used it all the way from 1-19 now and i have not seen it as a weapon, all it is to me is a disease throwing stick, the damage it does is not the main thing you know? i mean sure i use focus off hand and kite like how an axe user might play but i simply do not care about my damage. what i’m watching is the conditions on my target and when is the best time to toss out epidemic and i dont even use the scepter 3 skills unless after i DS during a champ battle, and finally DS, lets just say its my OH KITTEN button, if something big hit me and i’m dying i turn it on, throw out skill 4 and gtfo so i dunno if its the wrong way to play for conditiomancer but thats how i play it so yeah, pardon me wall of text, flame me, call a newb/noob i dun mind cuz i am a newb, i admit it and this is just my 2 cents

P/S if someone can tell me what “master the death shroud” as mr peters said means, i would really appreciate it

Did you actually just say there is no power build that does not use high crit?

Stop making sweeping statements when you only play WvW that’s just one form of ‘pvp’. WvW is not a true test of a class or skills there are way to many factors level gear numbers more open space plenty of mobs to kill and always be 100% lifeforce etc.. The ability to run at a whim.

Spvp and tpvp players hold everthing to a standard that is based around everyone having the same quality gear and being the same actual level all skills.

People that necro as power in spvp and tpvp (rare but some do) tend to use soldiers because if you dont stack defense and have decent health you will get insta killed by classes better at burst.

Ill go right back to my original statement Scepter is better then axe in a power build its stays better up to 50% crit but the margin is very close in the 40% crit range.

I have not even gotten deep into the topic of some condition splash… a little condition damage really goes a long way you dont need to stack it and a few hundred condition damage really helps marks and puts scepter wayyyyy ahread in damage then axe in a power build. I consider a power build around 2k power.

Also your scepter in pve is going to have good condition splash and if you spec deep into spite you are a picking up 50-100…. add in rune of undeath and you are at 300+ condition damage .

On a side not im not making these claims because I like scepter… I dont like the weapon at all I like the looks and concept of axe… its just not as good as scepter in a power build.

What a run most the time in WvW because that seems to be your focus… http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNBmWDbESrSPTTcjhPRI94ZXDaTK+24gU8edB;TsAA1Cooay0koJbTumkNtKYUw+DA

If not that I run 30/0/20/20/0 or 20/10/20/20 all the same concept powered up wells and marks with a good off weapons scepter fills the role better then axe and dagger, another snare more damage and bleeds and poison on top of it. Axe is useless after the 2 and 3 skills are used and Im waiting for staff to comeback up. (dagger I use at times due to its decent damage for a necro)

And that basically sums up the issue with these debates, what works in sPVP may not work in WvW or PVE because how factors like gear and opposition smarts gets involved. So far the best test seems to be going naked and going all out on one of the mist golems, that is the most level test we can perform at present.

digiowl.9620:

And that basically sums up the issue with these debates, what works in sPVP may not work in WvW or PVE because how factors like gear and opposition smarts gets involved. So far the best test seems to be going naked and going all out on one of the mist golems, that is the most level test we can perform at present.

And also what one defines a ‘Power’ build, for example Xom’s linked build of 20/0/30/20/0 with Undead runes i would consider a tank or hybrid build instead of a power mainly because it doesn’t capitalize on the Power as much as one with higher critical chance could, but again that’s my opinion not me stating what a power build ‘must’ be, which just cant be done.

Or to state it more simply, in his Power build his scepter does more damage because hes traited and speced more for additional condition at the cost of crit, and in my build axe does more then scepter because i capitalize on critical chance and damage making the base damage of axe (170) hit more then the scepters (85)

Is that more fair to say? And also please stop making the assumption i only WvW, i do SPvP too just not as much as WvW

The build I listed was my WvW build, regardless anything with 2200 + power is a power build I would say. All my builds have Toughness of at least 1500 and thats what i consider my glass cannon build. Im normally at 1700 to 2000 toughness.

In Spvp I do rune of ogre so am at 2300+ power at about 1800 toughness 8% crit. Scepter does more damage then Axe and thats with ZERO condition damage.

I honestly dont know if you are trolling at this point. I did not want to confuse the topic so never talked about my testing with condition damage added in. My tests were done with zero condition damage scepter won in a pure power build.

Now regarding crit rate and why scepter scales just as well depending on what the target is and timefram of damage I wont even get into it.

Just know im right if you do more testing at even 40% crit rate 2200 power you will see scepter does more damage. If we get into real pvp action scepter major league pulls ahead due to range and targets not dying as fast.

The problem lies in the fact vulnerability by itself does NO damage. And the problem with vulnerability itself is the fact it lasts really really short for what it needs to do with a necro.

Necro as the devs want it to be are an attrition class whose damage ramps up over time and makes it advantageous in the long fights.

The problem is the Axe damage DOESNT ramp up as well as a scepter does with the bleeds in a power build. This is evident in the duration of vulnerability. It only lasts 5 seconds with the auto. Now if this was a faster weapon itd make sense but the rate it attacks is horrendous and the lack of burst makes the vulnerability pretty subpar, where vulnerability usually would be much much scarier because burst + additonal straight % damage is dangerous.

So you look at the scepter. Each hit is a power hit, and then you have the additional splash of condition damage which at base of 0 i think still gives like 43 damage per tick. So its a bonus 213 damage over 5 seconds per hit. Compared to a Zero from vulnerability and a ‘potential’ increase in damage which isn’t really there from a necro.

Agree 100% Berullos the other issue with axe is the number 2 skills recharge rate… Its too long leaving towards massive ‘down time’ in pvp while you just hit with number one attack (its terrible) and are waiting for the weapon swap back to staff or number two to pop back up.

I think if people are just emotional attached to Axe and are not focused on the numbers and testing. I dont know what it was in beta I know what it is now… perhaps the worst weapon out of anyclass any spec in the game. Even our condition weapon does better then the axe in it role as a power weapon lol.

sorry, posted in the wrong forum post.