Balance Changes 28. July
Playing necromancer on Skyrim. Never felt better! They can’t nerf me there! xD
Next thing they’re gonna say is Soul Marks isn’t supposed to make marks completely unblockable, and remove the text, and have everybody pretend it’s not a nerf or a bad/lazy change.
I honestly give up. Axe is crap and everything else is nerfed to stupidity. Its not even that fun in PVE anymore. Its only good for the wells. I’ve been maining a Necro since I started the game but I’m done. I’ll try it again when Reaper comes out.
You should give other professions some playtime until more changes come about.
Thats exactly what I’ll be doing. I have 4 level 80 characters. I’ll leave my Necro on the back burner until reaper. Necro is too boring now. I keep hoping for some new change, new axe skills, a buff to staff damage, anything.. but every update is nothing but nerfs and nothing new.
This update gave ranger and engineer better range.. a few updates ago warrior got a buff in range for bow.. I liked minion master builds in pvp, but every class except necro now has great aoe damage at range, MM is rather pointless now. That and the minions go AFK way to often.. and in death shroud I have no idea if a minion is actually dead or afk since I can’t see the utilities.. all that is left is a standard power build with wells. I’m finally facing the facts that this profession design is flawed.
I did a full map completion with my necro.. I’m starting to do the same with my warrior and mesmer, and the pure dps and functionality of these classes outshines the necro in every way. I do dungeons, fractals, world boss trains, pvp.. every part of this game is more enjoyable and faster paced, with higher dps, with any of the other professions I’ve used compared to necro.
More nerfs even though we are already bottom tier… I really just don’t know what to say anymore…
Nerfed my self applied conditions, nerfed spinal shivers, nerfed signet of vampirism, nerfed holy martyr… I guess we were just too awesome to be viable.
Things that aren’t working as intended get nerfed (or buffed) regardless of what tier the profession is that has them. MMO balance 101.
You guys seriously need to stop crying. These nerfs aren’t a huge deal at all. No one seriously uses the focus in pvp, so spinal shivers is irrelevant. Unholy Martyr was similarly bad for the RNG factor. You could get sustain if you pulled weak condis to you, but you could get kittened over if you pulled 12 stacks of burning or immobilize. The change to chilling darkness makes it salvageable again with skulls like nightfall in the future.
And corruptions , we’re you really going to send that self blind from MoC CC to you opener when the blind stops staff/dagger 4 from working?
Maybe if you guys stopped crying on the forums all the time you’d see that necromancers aren’t all that bad. I’ve been seeing cele necros in tournaments at many different levels all the time these days, and those teams tend to be very succesful. They’re much more common than rangers and engineers in tournaments right now.
And the pve complaints are so hollow considering that most of you will never attempt to do a speedrun.
Anyway I’m sorry for being harsh, but these nerfs are irrelevant overall and nothing to be sad over.
just for clarification as far as i know staff 4 and dagger 4 will both transfer the blind… thought it had been like this for a very long time as well.
S P E E D Starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD awful d/D ele NA
For the heck of Necromancers please upvote this post relating our latest bugs:
Thank you
Necromancer dedication – Youtube
You guys seriously need to stop crying. These nerfs aren’t a huge deal at all. No one seriously uses the focus in pvp, so spinal shivers is irrelevant. Unholy Martyr was similarly bad for the RNG factor. You could get sustain if you pulled weak condis to you, but you could get kittened over if you pulled 12 stacks of burning or immobilize. The change to chilling darkness makes it salvageable again with skulls like nightfall in the future.
And corruptions , we’re you really going to send that self blind from MoC CC to you opener when the blind stops staff/dagger 4 from working?
Maybe if you guys stopped crying on the forums all the time you’d see that necromancers aren’t all that bad. I’ve been seeing cele necros in tournaments at many different levels all the time these days, and those teams tend to be very succesful. They’re much more common than rangers and engineers in tournaments right now.
And the pve complaints are so hollow considering that most of you will never attempt to do a speedrun.
Anyway I’m sorry for being harsh, but these nerfs are irrelevant overall and nothing to be sad over.
just for clarification as far as i know staff 4 and dagger 4 will both transfer the blind… thought it had been like this for a very long time as well.
Oh okay then, my friend who told me this was misinformed then, and the wiki agrees with you. I don’t play with MoC ever, nor do I prioritize transferring blinds over other condis, but thanks for the clarification man!
Although if the blind isn’t transferred due to RNG when having to many condis, those two will both miss and nothing will be transferred it seems, so its risky when you get condi bombed.
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..
(edited by nearlight.3064)
Your argument is a slippery slope, which by definition is a logical fallacy.
dial back the forum debate olympics and i’ll take you seriously
we know that spinal shivers was never unblockable. the tooltip was changed in the specialization update to say that it was blockable. a bug report was filed noting that it was not actually unblockable. arenanet’s decision, rather than to fix the reported bug that prevented spinal shivers from being unblockable was to decide retroactively that the tooltip and patch note was incorrect, not the functionality
but seriously dude, why don’t you chill out and go take your necro to the spvp esports scene or whatever where you claim it’s viable if it’s so kitten good
show me all those top tier pve necromancers that dnt is using
obviously it’s a victim complex and necros need to get good despite the best players in the world saying it’s trash, right?
in before “you used top level play as a metering statistic therefore you’re doing THE AUTHORITY FALLACY” or whatever because arguing semantics is easier than arguing facts
(edited by Golby.5348)
just for clarification as far as i know staff 4 and dagger 4 will both transfer the blind… thought it had been like this for a very long time as well.
I’m not sure they do anymore: I think their changing it to a random priority broke it somehow. I need to test to confirm (if someone wants to jump into an empty custom arena and cast signet of spite at me a few times let me know), but I’ve had a lot of transfers simply not work without getting a “blocked”, “obstructed”, or “evaded” message. They just simply don’t work. This happens more often with Plague Sig than with deathly swarm and putrid mark, but it has happened with those too. The only explanation I can think of is that the transfer is prioritising conditions other than the blind, and the blind is causing it to miss.
Your argument is a slippery slope, which by definition is a logical fallacy.
dial back the forum debate olympics and i’ll take you seriously
we know that spinal shivers was never unblockable. the tooltip was changed in the specialization update to say that it was blockable. a bug report was filed noting that it was not actually unblockable. arenanet’s decision, rather than to fix the reported bug that prevented spinal shivers from being unblockable was to decide retroactively that the tooltip and patch note was incorrect, not the functionality
but seriously dude, why don’t you chill out and go take your necro to the spvp esports scene or whatever where you claim it’s viable if it’s so kitten good
show me all those top tier pve necromancers that dnt is using
obviously it’s a victim complex and necros need to get good despite the best players in the world saying it’s trash, right?
in before “you used top level play as a metering statistic therefore you’re doing THE AUTHORITY FALLACY” or whatever because arguing semantics is easier than arguing facts
The argument from authority is also flawed as well unless you have one omnipotent authority that cannot lie, so you’re right, lets not even talk about that.
I must say though, I have little interest in PvE due to the reptition involved, but even I can name a PvE necro that knows whats up.
And like I said, most of us won’t do speedclears, so is it really a big deal to play necromancer, even though its not considered optimal? If you do a speedclear then its fine to not have to use a necro, but so few of you will actually do this, that whining about necro do its lack of speedclear potential is pointless.
Moving on, PvP is what I do. Now I’m not the best player in the world, but I do know a lot about the game and follow a lot of top players. And there are quite a few running necro in tourneys right now. Noscoc is obviously the main and most successful one, but others exist such as Sunfish, OP Necro, Pheownix, and many others in other tourneys besides the weekly ESLs. While you can’t consider Necro the be as META as thief, ele, guard, mesmer, and warrior right now, its readily apparent that Necro is just under meta-status comapred to them. In fact with the rampage nerf today, and the likely switch of mantra mes to PU zerk (non-interrupt based), I think we’ll see even more necros. If that happens, I don’t think it’d be impossible for cele necro to take over zerker warrior’s spot in the meta, but thats just a prediction. Time will tell if I’m right or not though.
And I’m just stating what I’ve seen from casual observation, I’m not telling you what top players say about necro in pvp, because that would be the authority argument that we already decided is illogical.
So what do we do? Do we just sit here and whine about things like spinal shivers? Or do we play the game and show everyone what the necromancer can really do?
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..
Mostly just bug fixes this month with minor tweaks to most things except for Rampager.
All they appear to have done is make things work as they intended so this does not appear to be a balance patch.
Clean up the bugs, first, then worry about balance after everything works like they wanted.
(edited by Anchoku.8142)
just for clarification as far as i know staff 4 and dagger 4 will both transfer the blind… thought it had been like this for a very long time as well.
I’m not sure they do anymore: I think their changing it to a random priority broke it somehow. I need to test to confirm (if someone wants to jump into an empty custom arena and cast signet of spite at me a few times let me know), but I’ve had a lot of transfers simply not work without getting a “blocked”, “obstructed”, or “evaded” message. They just simply don’t work. This happens more often with Plague Sig than with deathly swarm and putrid mark, but it has happened with those too. The only explanation I can think of is that the transfer is prioritising conditions other than the blind, and the blind is causing it to miss.
Not sure about what happens with more condis than the transfer sends but with blind and the right amount of transfers or lower it still works.
S P E E D Starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD awful d/D ele NA
Your argument is a slippery slope, which by definition is a logical fallacy.
dial back the forum debate olympics and i’ll take you seriously
we know that spinal shivers was never unblockable. the tooltip was changed in the specialization update to say that it was blockable. a bug report was filed noting that it was not actually unblockable. arenanet’s decision, rather than to fix the reported bug that prevented spinal shivers from being unblockable was to decide retroactively that the tooltip and patch note was incorrect, not the functionality
but seriously dude, why don’t you chill out and go take your necro to the spvp esports scene or whatever where you claim it’s viable if it’s so kitten good
show me all those top tier pve necromancers that dnt is using
obviously it’s a victim complex and necros need to get good despite the best players in the world saying it’s trash, right?
in before “you used top level play as a metering statistic therefore you’re doing THE AUTHORITY FALLACY” or whatever because arguing semantics is easier than arguing facts
The argument from authority is also flawed as well unless you have one omnipotent authority that cannot lie, so you’re right, lets not even talk about that.
I must say though, I have little interest in PvE due to the reptition involved, but even I can name a PvE necro that knows whats up.
And like I said, most of us won’t do speedclears, so is it really a big deal to play necromancer, even though its not considered optimal? If you do a speedclear then its fine to not have to use a necro, but so few of you will actually do this, that whining about necro do its lack of speedclear potential is pointless.
Moving on, PvP is what I do. Now I’m not the best player in the world, but I do know a lot about the game and follow a lot of top players. And there are quite a few running necro in tourneys right now. Noscoc is obviously the main and most successful one, but others exist such as Sunfish, OP Necro, Pheownix, and many others in other tourneys besides the weekly ESLs. While you can’t consider Necro the be as META as thief, ele, guard, mesmer, and warrior right now, its readily apparent that Necro is just under meta-status comapred to them. In fact with the rampage nerf today, and the likely switch of mantra mes to PU zerk (non-interrupt based), I think we’ll see even more necros. If that happens, I don’t think it’d be impossible for cele necro to take over zerker warrior’s spot in the meta, but thats just a prediction. Time will tell if I’m right or not though.
And I’m just stating what I’ve seen from casual observation, I’m not telling you what top players say about necro in pvp, because that would be the authority argument that we already decided is illogical.
So what do we do? Do we just sit here and whine about things like spinal shivers? Or do we play the game and show everyone what the necromancer can really do?
So your argument is that even though every other class is better than necro (your own words not mine) we should just suck it up and play with a sub-par class and not try to get the class fixed?
“Necro the be as META as thief, ele, guard, mesmer, and warrior right now, its readily apparent that Necro is just under meta-status comapred to them.”
Additionally HoT has been repeatedly totted as bringing challenging group content. We should be striving for a class that has a place in this content, not one that is left out of the content for 6 months until it is maybe possibly balanced at some point in the future.
Honestly I think with a few more nerfs to other classes, necro could find a place in higher level PvP. However PvE we are soooo far behind, with fundamental flaws that we will need some major reworks before HoT to be viable.
For PvP, I think necro is not too far indeed and is quite present in NA tournaments (not as much in EU, maybe the “Nos effect”).
For PvE, despite Brazil’s efforts, necro is still not very welcome. To be honest, this is based on misplaced elitism because necro is a very good addition to any PUG thanks to its self-reliance. Let’s be honest, many of those asking for “meta” in lfg are not speed-clearing level! Only really optimized group would loose (a bit) with a necro.
When HoT comes, developers probably think that thanks to its high survivability, necro could have its place in “challenging group content”… except for one detail that devs still didn’t understand: damage negation > damage reduction. Maybe thanks to an improved AI, boss won’t wipe people in 1-shot but instead attack regularly and deal moderate damage each time, but currently, without reflects or evades/blocks, necro are in a bad spot even in terms of survivability.
And in any case, I think devs have no excuse whatsoever for the situation in which condition necros are. When you see that a weapon (scepter although axe could also be cited) is absent of nearly all high-level builds, you should maybe think that they need some attention…
Axe is only worse compared to scepter due to scepter being the only real condi option.
S P E E D Starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD awful d/D ele NA
To be entirely fair to Unholy Martyr, it did need maybe a 10% decrease in LF gen.
In the extremely rare case of a condi-based world boss(E.G. SW Mid) by running an MM build with UM and staying in DS you could consistently survive ~30 stacks of poison until the boss died.
But to give necro absolutely nothing in return for it is a joke when necro is the absolute garbage tier in every game mode.
cele signets is a good build I think it will become meta
S P E E D Starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD awful d/D ele NA
For PvP, I think necro is not too far indeed and is quite present in NA tournaments (not as much in EU, maybe the “Nos effect”).
For PvE, despite Brazil’s efforts, necro is still not very welcome. To be honest, this is based on misplaced elitism because necro is a very good addition to any PUG thanks to its self-reliance. Let’s be honest, many of those asking for “meta” in lfg are not speed-clearing level! Only really optimized group would loose (a bit) with a necro.
When HoT comes, developers probably think that thanks to its high survivability, necro could have its place in “challenging group content”… except for one detail that devs still didn’t understand: damage negation > damage reduction. Maybe thanks to an improved AI, boss won’t wipe people in 1-shot but instead attack regularly and deal moderate damage each time, but currently, without reflects or evades/blocks, necro are in a bad spot even in terms of survivability.And in any case, I think devs have no excuse whatsoever for the situation in which condition necros are. When you see that a weapon (scepter although axe could also be cited) is absent of nearly all high-level builds, you should maybe think that they need some attention…
Indeed. Sorry I’m going to sorta use your post to try and make my point for necromancer PvE and PvP currently.
I love necromancer, it’s my main, and I’ve seen the way other classes are played. but take it into a solo fight with lupi. The problems quickly begin to show themselves. Reaper I Do think will help a lot of the problems, but like Bwawb, Dranor, and Sagat, along with numerous others have said, the elite shouldn’t replace the core, it should offer another option or way to play the profession.
PvP wise, I don’t think we’re far off from finally being on the other classes level, but what we need is a touch of mobility, enough to force an engage or get out of a sticky situation, but not both. We also need reliable access to stability, not just stun breakers.
And finally, my two cents on why we’re so scrutized by the devs when it comes to nerfs and buffs….we’re the unfun class. You see all the time other classes complaining about how they can’t deal with conditions, and how much they rely on boons like might, stability, protection, aegis, soon to be resistance. And what is one thing we do best? We turn those boons, those strengths and what so many classes rely on, and turn them into their undoing. And sure they can just clear them using a condition clear but that puts us up, what? 2 skills? A buff skill followed by a condition clear? And then as far as conditions though, we can put out a fair amount of conditions, not anything super concentrated, but we can fill up that bar pretty quickly if specced right…..annnnd that’s my two cents, maybe three.
Your argument is a slippery slope, which by definition is a logical fallacy.
dial back the forum debate olympics and i’ll take you seriously
we know that spinal shivers was never unblockable. the tooltip was changed in the specialization update to say that it was blockable. a bug report was filed noting that it was not actually unblockable. arenanet’s decision, rather than to fix the reported bug that prevented spinal shivers from being unblockable was to decide retroactively that the tooltip and patch note was incorrect, not the functionality
but seriously dude, why don’t you chill out and go take your necro to the spvp esports scene or whatever where you claim it’s viable if it’s so kitten good
show me all those top tier pve necromancers that dnt is using
obviously it’s a victim complex and necros need to get good despite the best players in the world saying it’s trash, right?
in before “you used top level play as a metering statistic therefore you’re doing THE AUTHORITY FALLACY” or whatever because arguing semantics is easier than arguing facts
The argument from authority is also flawed as well unless you have one omnipotent authority that cannot lie, so you’re right, lets not even talk about that.
I must say though, I have little interest in PvE due to the reptition involved, but even I can name a PvE necro that knows whats up.
And like I said, most of us won’t do speedclears, so is it really a big deal to play necromancer, even though its not considered optimal? If you do a speedclear then its fine to not have to use a necro, but so few of you will actually do this, that whining about necro do its lack of speedclear potential is pointless.
Moving on, PvP is what I do. Now I’m not the best player in the world, but I do know a lot about the game and follow a lot of top players. And there are quite a few running necro in tourneys right now. Noscoc is obviously the main and most successful one, but others exist such as Sunfish, OP Necro, Pheownix, and many others in other tourneys besides the weekly ESLs. While you can’t consider Necro the be as META as thief, ele, guard, mesmer, and warrior right now, its readily apparent that Necro is just under meta-status comapred to them. In fact with the rampage nerf today, and the likely switch of mantra mes to PU zerk (non-interrupt based), I think we’ll see even more necros. If that happens, I don’t think it’d be impossible for cele necro to take over zerker warrior’s spot in the meta, but thats just a prediction. Time will tell if I’m right or not though.
And I’m just stating what I’ve seen from casual observation, I’m not telling you what top players say about necro in pvp, because that would be the authority argument that we already decided is illogical.
So what do we do? Do we just sit here and whine about things like spinal shivers? Or do we play the game and show everyone what the necromancer can really do?
forums jacked up the formatting of my original post so w/e I’ll do a summarized version:
-i like how you linked the kill video and not any of brazil’s other dozens of videos about why necro isn’t pve viable
-pvp groups running necro is cool. when one actually wins something (wins something, not places second or third against a meta team) i’ll buy it
-‘not everyone speedruns’, except the vast majority of lfg listings expecting you to be able to speedrun, i guess
-argument from fallacy fallacy (lol)
anyway sorry, ill pull on my magic bootstraps harder and rocket necro into pve dungeon acceptance and dozens of pvp tournament wins, the community impression (both inside and outside of the prof’s players) that it’s utter garbage is obviously imagined and doesn’t cause any harm to the community as a whole ¯\(?)/¯
(edited by Golby.5348)
it’s been two weeks, in esl NA finals, there are two necros..
it’s like you guys are talking about PvP without giving a kitten to it…
Cele signets Is good.
S P E E D Starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD awful d/D ele NA
Fine changes.
Chilling Darkness isn’t as good as before but if you used plague and maximized your chill duration with no icd… you could cap the chill duration on someone 100x over. With this change you’ll still be able to chill nicely in AoE with Plague.
Not as good as before.. but not completely terrible either, imo.
and Necros kick butt in sPvP. The only issue I’ve come across are mantra cleanse mesmers (but then found out the mantras had no cooldown so they could have perma cleanse with insane burst too) and Fire-specced eles. All other stuff (warriors, engis, rangers, guardians) dont have an easy time vs. A Necro.
YouTube Channel
we know that spinal shivers was never unblockable. the tooltip was changed in the specialization update to say that it was blockable. a bug report was filed noting that it was not actually unblockable. arenanet’s decision, rather than to fix the reported bug that prevented spinal shivers from being unblockable was to decide retroactively that the tooltip and patch note was incorrect, not the functionality
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-June-23-2015/first#post5217689
There was never a patch note saying Spinal Shivers was made unblockable. The tooltip changed without any note made of it. Today’s patch only fixed that tooltip. Note that they did say it would still strip Aegis before determining if it was blocked.
Your argument is a slippery slope, which by definition is a logical fallacy.
dial back the forum debate olympics and i’ll take you seriously
we know that spinal shivers was never unblockable. the tooltip was changed in the specialization update to say that it was blockable. a bug report was filed noting that it was not actually unblockable. arenanet’s decision, rather than to fix the reported bug that prevented spinal shivers from being unblockable was to decide retroactively that the tooltip and patch note was incorrect, not the functionality
but seriously dude, why don’t you chill out and go take your necro to the spvp esports scene or whatever where you claim it’s viable if it’s so kitten good
show me all those top tier pve necromancers that dnt is using
obviously it’s a victim complex and necros need to get good despite the best players in the world saying it’s trash, right?
in before “you used top level play as a metering statistic therefore you’re doing THE AUTHORITY FALLACY” or whatever because arguing semantics is easier than arguing facts
The argument from authority is also flawed as well unless you have one omnipotent authority that cannot lie, so you’re right, lets not even talk about that.
I must say though, I have little interest in PvE due to the reptition involved, but even I can name a PvE necro that knows whats up.
And like I said, most of us won’t do speedclears, so is it really a big deal to play necromancer, even though its not considered optimal? If you do a speedclear then its fine to not have to use a necro, but so few of you will actually do this, that whining about necro do its lack of speedclear potential is pointless.
Moving on, PvP is what I do. Now I’m not the best player in the world, but I do know a lot about the game and follow a lot of top players. And there are quite a few running necro in tourneys right now. Noscoc is obviously the main and most successful one, but others exist such as Sunfish, OP Necro, Pheownix, and many others in other tourneys besides the weekly ESLs. While you can’t consider Necro the be as META as thief, ele, guard, mesmer, and warrior right now, its readily apparent that Necro is just under meta-status comapred to them. In fact with the rampage nerf today, and the likely switch of mantra mes to PU zerk (non-interrupt based), I think we’ll see even more necros. If that happens, I don’t think it’d be impossible for cele necro to take over zerker warrior’s spot in the meta, but thats just a prediction. Time will tell if I’m right or not though.
And I’m just stating what I’ve seen from casual observation, I’m not telling you what top players say about necro in pvp, because that would be the authority argument that we already decided is illogical.
So what do we do? Do we just sit here and whine about things like spinal shivers? Or do we play the game and show everyone what the necromancer can really do?
-pvp groups running necro is cool. when one actually wins something (wins something, not places second or third against a meta team) i’ll buy it
The Abjured. They’ve won pretty much every tournament that wasn’t against EU, and they beat “meta” teams all the time, using a necromancer every single time. People argue that they’d be better off if Nos ran something else, but that argument is simply a what if, since they’ve shown everyone that it can work in high tier pvp and excel.
And when I say speedclear, I mean speedclears that people time and record to break records, not pug runs asking for speedclears… thats just people asking for players with a modicum of pve sense and experience. Come on man, you can do better than that.
And @ZudetGambious you’re putting words in my mouth. I’m implying that the difference between cele signet necromancer and the meta classes for pvp isn’t as big of a difference as everyone thinks, and I truly beleive that after the rampage nerf necromancer is overally better than warrior in pvp.
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..
And next will be Corrupt Boon that gets blocked by anything short of Aegis. It seems that Anet has introduced two different checks for blocks. I’m noticing that traited marks will not remove the Aegis boon now. Will confirm this with further testing tomorrow.
GTX 980M – SSD 512GB R/W:550/520MB/s
17.3" 1080p – 32GB 2400MHz DDR4
And next will be Corrupt Boon that gets blocked by anything short of Aegis. It seems that Anet has introduced two different checks for blocks. I’m noticing that traited marks will not remove the Aegis boon now. Will confirm this with further testing tomorrow.
…why are you saying this?
Spinal Shivers was never unblockable It got an incorrect skill fact added. It is only unblockable by the Aegis boon; anything else will still block.
Corrupt Boon is truly unblockable.
Unblockable marks don’t remove Aegis because they don’t get blocked. Aegis doesn’t get removed by attacks unless it actually blocks one.
Anet seems to be balancing classes based on what they do best… RNG. How it actually affects anything is secondary.
Chilling darkness did not need a nerf even if reaper could put out enough blinds cds are too big.
The argument from authority is also flawed as well unless you have one omnipotent authority that cannot lie, so you’re right, lets not even talk about that.
And I’m just stating what I’ve seen from casual observation, I’m not telling you what top players say about necro in pvp, because that would be the authority argument that we already decided is illogical.
You kinda need to go back and relearn the subtlties of logical reasoning. Quoting an expert in a field, when discussing that particular field isn’t necessarily an appeal to authority fallacy. Nobody can be a fully researched, authority on every single field so so defaulting to an authroity in that field is perfectly reasonable. It becomes fallacious when you use their authority as either absolute proof or as proof for a different subject matter.
For example in an argument about astronomy, if someone said, “ah but you can’t be sure that the gravity of Earth affects the path of comets”, invoking newtonian law woudn’t be fallacious. It’s not fallacious because it’s Newton demonstrated through evidenced research and peer review, that we can indeed be sure that Earth’s gravity affects comets, we can even use his model of physics to predict trajectory, path and when a comet may return. Halley famously used Newton’s calculation.
However if that person were to argue that Newton believed in god therfor god must exist, that would be fallacious since Newton was not an expert on proving the existence of gods. Nor did he ever demonstrate that gods exist, or provide any peer-reviewed research that provides any model with which to investigate and examine for ourselves.
Invoking the views of top level players regarding the state of Necros, isn’t necessarily a fallacy. It depends on if those players have extensivley tested the latest version of Necros to the same degrees as other classes. If the the players you are quoting are top level Necro mains, who have a tested, demonstrated concensus on where the Necro does well and where it fails, then taking their position as authority isn’t fallacious.
If you were to quote someone like VeeWee (whom I adore as a forum character ) who doesn’t extensively play necros, but arguably plays higher-tier, then that may be fallacious.
Ultimately in debates like this, the burden of proof lays with the person making the positive claim, this is necesssary because generally you can’t prove a negative. If you claim that Necros are in a good place, you should be able to demonstrate that by providing videos and information which showsthat necros are coming out on top in equal measure to other classes. If you can’t, then there could be something wrong with your claim.
Oh and an ultimate authority that cannot lie, could also be an appeal to authority fallacy, that authority could be wrong, afterall, by what means would you measure it’s absolute authority? Against what would you compare it? In order to say that this “ultimate authority” is the ultimate authority, you would need some way to test it or have another authority who is the ultimate authority on ultimate authorities. Then another one for that authority and so-on and so-on, endlessly into infinity.
The only way to ensure authority on a subject is to have that authority demonstrate their position through evidence presented in away that we can test and review for ourselves.
(edited by wolfyrik.2017)
And next will be Corrupt Boon that gets blocked by anything short of Aegis. It seems that Anet has introduced two different checks for blocks. I’m noticing that traited marks will not remove the Aegis boon now. Will confirm this with further testing tomorrow.
…why are you saying this?
Spinal Shivers was never unblockable It got an incorrect skill fact added. It is only unblockable by the Aegis boon; anything else will still block.
Corrupt Boon is truly unblockable.
Unblockable marks don’t remove Aegis because they don’t get blocked. Aegis doesn’t get removed by attacks unless it actually blocks one.
I’m saying it because both Corrupt Boon and Spinal Shivers would fail whenever they tried to remove Aegis. Now it seems, that at the time, the simplest way to fix this was to make them unlockable, probably (and this is only my opinion) because there was no way to distinguish between Aegis and an active blocking skill. Unholy Feast was, and probably still is, the only boon removing skill that could be blocked, even by Aegis.
GTX 980M – SSD 512GB R/W:550/520MB/s
17.3" 1080p – 32GB 2400MHz DDR4
Fine changes.
Chilling Darkness isn’t as good as before but if you used plague and maximized your chill duration with no icd… you could cap the chill duration on someone 100x over.
This was fixed when they made chill duration stacking capped at 5. But in the same patch they nerfed chilling darkness. They only needed to fix chill to prevent the plague thing. So yes its a stupid nerf. And the devs lacked the foresight to implement them seperately to see if chilling darkness really warranted a nerf after chill was fixed. Still dont believe it does.
The argument from authority is also flawed as well unless you have one omnipotent authority that cannot lie, so you’re right, lets not even talk about that.
And I’m just stating what I’ve seen from casual observation, I’m not telling you what top players say about necro in pvp, because that would be the authority argument that we already decided is illogical.
You kinda need to go back and relearn the subtlties of logical reasoning. Quoting an expert in a field, when discussing that particular field isn’t necessarily an appeal to authority fallacy. Nobody can be a fully researched, authority on every single field so so defaulting to an authroity in that field is perfectly reasonable. It becomes fallacious when you use their authority as either absolute proof or as proof for a different subject matter.
For example in an argument about astronomy, if someone said, “ah but you can’t be sure that the gravity of Earth affects the path of comets”, invoking newtonian law woudn’t be fallacious. It’s not fallacious because it’s Newton demonstrated through evidenced research and peer review, that we can indeed be sure that Earth’s gravity affects comets, we can even use his model of physics to predict trajectory, path and when a comet may return. Halley famously used Newton’s calculation.
However if that person were to argue that Newton believed in god therfor god must exist, that would be fallacious since Newton was not an expert on proving the existence of gods. Nor did he ever demonstrate that gods exist, or provide any peer-reviewed research that provides any model with which to investigate and examine for ourselves.
Invoking the views of top level players regarding the state of Necros, isn’t necessarily a fallacy. It depends on if those players have extensivley tested the latest version of Necros to the same degrees as other classes. If the the players you are quoting are top level Necro mains, who have a tested, demonstrated concensus on where the Necro does well and where it fails, then taking their position as authority isn’t fallacious.
If you were to quote someone like VeeWee (whom I adore as a forum character ) who doesn’t extensively play necros, but arguably plays higher-tier, then that may be fallacious.
Ultimately in debates like this, the burden of proof lays with the person making the positive claim, this is necesssary because generally you can’t prove a negative. If you claim that Necros are in a good place, you should be able to demonstrate that by providing videos and information which showsthat necros are coming out on top in equal measure to other classes. If you can’t, then there could be something wrong with your claim.
Oh and an ultimate authority that cannot lie, could also be an appeal to authority fallacy, that authority could be wrong, afterall, by what means would you measure it’s absolute authority? Against what would you compare it? In order to say that this “ultimate authority” is the ultimate authority, you would need some way to test it or have another authority who is the ultimate authority on ultimate authorities. Then another one for that authority and so-on and so-on, endlessly into infinity.
The only way to ensure authority on a subject is to have that authority demonstrate their position through evidence presented in away that we can test and review for ourselves.
Okay fair enough, and yeah I’ve never taken a full logic class before, it was just touched upon in other areas of my studies, but I just like to debate, thats really my personality. I’d say that the ESL matches from recent weeks would be good evidence of a positive claim or even this other linked tourney below in which quite a few necros do well.
And time will tell, but once again I predict that mesmer and warrior nerfs will only make cele necro more popular and competitive in higher tier in the coming weeks.
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..
Why does chilling darkness have a cd? When did this happen?
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
Why does chilling darkness have a cd? When did this happen?
anet thought it’s too OP with well of darkness, plague, bitter chill and all the chill-related stuff that comes at some day with the reaper. so they made sure noone ever uses it again
Gunnar’s Hold
Why does chilling darkness have a cd? When did this happen?
anet thought it’s too OP with well of darkness, plague, bitter chill and all the chill-related stuff that comes at some day with the reaper. so they made sure noone ever uses it again
Yeah the ICD basically kills its usage with plague and well of darkness. At least it will still function nominally with nightfall and deathly swarm on condi reaper builds… although you probably don’t want to use GS at all on condi reaper.. and plague sending is probably overall a better trait for those builds anyway, so yeah, but I guess it could be okay with OH dagger if the damage from bitter chill is decent.
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..
I still think that the best way for them to control chilling darkness would have been to just revert the the chill duration to 1 second with no ICD. In this form It wasn’t an issue for the past 3 years, it was even looked down. Why make it even worse than it was before?
not pug runs asking for speedclears… thats just people asking for players with a modicum of pve sense and experience. Come on man, you can do better than that.
given that you (self-admitted) don’t play pve I’m going to give you a pass on the fact that you those pug runs often boot necromancers (and other sub-meta profs, like rangers,) without warning. ‘players with a modicum of pve sense and experience’ have apparently decided that necromancer (and, other profs, usually ranger) are not worth the additional time and energy to take. yes, some players are more tolerant, but even the less tolerant players will take several other not-necessarily-meta profs before they take necro
other profs that are not from the ‘competitive timed run meta’ are frequently welcome in rando groups, necromancer, however, is widely accepted as not.
i will write it in bold font so that you understand the point i am trying to convey,
pug groups
kick
necromancers
as a commonly enforced community standard
that is a result of the profession’s valuelessness in PvE runs determined by players with experience and sense
kitten dude, this was funny at first but you are seriously so obtuse this has become exhausting. i’m out
(edited by Golby.5348)
I’ve never been kicked by a pug group for being a necro, I haven’t pved in a year but it didn’t happen then.
S P E E D Starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD awful d/D ele NA
not pug runs asking for speedclears… thats just people asking for players with a modicum of pve sense and experience. Come on man, you can do better than that.
given that you (self-admitted) don’t play pve I’m going to give you a pass on the fact that you those pug runs often boot necromancers (and other sub-meta profs, like rangers,) without warning. ‘players with a modicum of pve sense and experience’ have apparently decided that necromancer (and, other profs, usually ranger) are not worth the additional time and energy to take. yes, some players are more tolerant, but even the less tolerant players will take several other not-necessarily-meta profs before they take necro
other profs that are not from the ‘competitive timed run meta’ are frequently welcome in rando groups, necromancer, however, is widely accepted as not.
i will write it in bold font so that you understand the point i am trying to convey,
pug groups
kick
necromancers
as a commonly enforced community standard
that is a result of the profession’s valuelessness in PvE runs determined by players with experience and sense
kitten dude, this was funny at first but you are seriously so obtuse this has become exhausting. i’m out
I said I don’t care about PvE that much, I didn’t say I didn’t do it all. I do pve (on necromancer) once in a blue moon. I ran level29 FotM 5 times over the past month on necromancer (to finish the backpiece up) and no gave a kitten that I wasn’t an icebow machine or any other meta pve class. One group asked me if I had a PS warrior, but then I just linked blood is power in chat and they said I’d be fine then. I supported them through vampiric and transfusion rezzes. So yeah thats about all the PvE I done recently, and I was fine.
Anecdotes aside, you mentioned earlier that Brazil had tons of videos about necro sucking, but those videos aren’t valid evidence because they concern the necromancer prepatch. In all of his post-patch content, Brazil asserts that necromancer is totally viable in pugs, even if its not an optimal choice. He also said that the blood magic traits make it really fun for him too. So don’t use outdated evidence against me, it’ll only make your claims weak by comparison.
Even if there is a stigma by elitist players, that doesn’t mean we should just sit by and do nothing about it. If Rosa Parks switched her necromancer to a staff ele, then the necromancer rights movement may not have had the success its seen. Thats just an analogy, but I think my point is clear.
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..
Why does chilling darkness have a cd? When did this happen?
Two patches back IIRC, just after the spec update. I wouldn’t listen to the conspiracy theorists, Peters mentioned it was “maybe too strong” for an adept ages ago and its not surprising to see it be nerfed despite literally only being good with WoD/Plague.
What confuses me is that they nerfed it at the same time as when they capped chill stacking. It was a double nerf. The chill stacking fix was enough to resolve the “too strong” issue. And if not then then reverting it back to 1 second chill would have been a better solution.
Why does chilling darkness have a cd? When did this happen?
anet thought it’s too OP with well of darkness, plague, bitter chill and all the chill-related stuff that comes at some day with the reaper. so they made sure noone ever uses it again
I always seem to come in here and find something else that’s unbelievably bad has happened. And that’s sort of why I haven’t touched necro much since the specialization patch.
But this is the trend for necro balance. X being op if A, B, C is taken so that’s taken for granted when nerfs happen to X, screwing over builds that do not use A, B, and C.
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
Why does chilling darkness have a cd? When did this happen?
anet thought it’s too OP with well of darkness, plague, bitter chill and all the chill-related stuff that comes at some day with the reaper. so they made sure noone ever uses it again
I always seem to come in here and find something else that’s unbelievably bad has happened. And that’s sort of why I haven’t touched necro much since the specialization patch.
But this is the trend for necro balance. X being op if A, B, C is taken so that’s taken for granted when nerfs happen to X, screwing over builds that do not use A, B, and C.
The best part is said A, B, and C don’t actually exist yet.
Restart WvW: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Clean-The-Slate/first#post6208959
#CleanTheSlate
I went in with no expectations as well, still dissapointed.
This was me yesterday. I literally said to myself "I want an excuse to pre-purchase HoT.
i am not going to buy HoT if they do not give Necro the attention is deserves. Anet have to give it the ability to be competitive in PvX for me to change my mind. if they do not, then i won’t buy the game and just wait for a better game to come along or just find a different form of recreation. i play other professions and they may be fun for a time, but the fact that my Necro main is NOWHERE near as effective or efficient as the other professions i play really irritates the kitten out of me. so if Anet wants to continue neglecting Necromancers and making dumb kittening decisions concerning them, they can keep their HoT, coz i’m not buying it.
Why does chilling darkness have a cd? When did this happen?
Two patches back IIRC, just after the spec update. I wouldn’t listen to the conspiracy theorists, Peters mentioned it was “maybe too strong” for an adept ages ago and its not surprising to see it be nerfed despite literally only being good with WoD/Plague.
how does this even make ANY kittening sense? let’s nerf a trait that is rarely used and only makes 2 skills decent which have long cool-downs with one being a placeable aoe that people can just walk out of and the other being an slow moving elite that does hardly any damage and locks you out of ALL your skills. great balancing logic there. /sigh this is why we can’t have nice things; people covering for Anet’s kittening asinine changes.
Chilling darkenss with a CD is literally the stupidest kittening thing i’ve ever seen.
Can we get a hotfix for the balance team or something.
Elementalist – Necromancer – Warrior
Chilling darkenss with a CD is literally the stupidest kittening thing i’ve ever seen.
Can we get a hotfix for the balance team or something.
more like a hotnerf next patch lol
I always seem to come in here and find something else that’s unbelievably bad has happened. And that’s sort of why I haven’t touched necro much since the specialization patch.
But this is the trend for necro balance. X being op if A, B, C is taken so that’s taken for granted when nerfs happen to X, screwing over builds that do not use A, B, and C.
‘unbelievably bad’ sums up the balancing process pretty well.
Chilling darkness nerf isnt as kittened as the whole Dumbfire disaster, but it comes close.
Gunnar’s Hold
(edited by RashanDale.3609)
Interestingly, necros aren’t the only class to be hit by a “double nerf” like this. The recent change to mantras on mesmers also fits the bill.
#1: Mantras were changed to now recharge upon last cast instead of upon charging.
#2: Harmonious Mantras was nerfed form 4% to 3% per stack.
By themselves, either one of these nerfs would’ve made sense. But together, they are excessive.
I have a theory about this: The various balance and bugfix teams don’t communicate with each other. The half of the mantra nerf is technically a bugfix, while the other half was made assuming that the new bugged version was standard. If the teams talked, then there would’ve been no 4% to 3% nerf.
Likewise, the team in charge of general overworld and condition balancing, and the team in charge of necro balance don’t speak to each other either. So, upon seeing the problem of chill being OP, both teams tried to solve it independently. Thus, global chill was nerfed and necro chill was nerfed. And now, neither oen of them want to budge, so the players get stuck with the problem.