Guild Wars 2

I’m about to make a suggestion spreadsheet thread for necromancers to deal with balance inconsistencies (see links in signature for examples)

Before I do so, I’d like to collect information from other players:

What are the current balance problems of necromancer/reaper?
What is too strong and overbearing in build diversity?
What is too weak and overshadowed by stronger options?
How is your experience in PvE / PvP / and WvW?

I look forward to reading everyone’s response.

You seem passionate about the game. Don’t be. You will only be left with frustration and anger. ANet doesn’t care (they don’t even have a CM to monitor these forums, so nothing we can say here will ever reach them, ever) and they won’t do anything but spouting big lies (they seem to do OK in that department: I believe they failed in politics before ending at ANet).

Ara.4569:

You seem passionate about the game. Don’t be. You will only be left with frustration and anger. ANet doesn’t care (they don’t even have a CM to monitor these forums, so nothing we can say here will ever reach them, ever) and they won’t do anything but spouting big lies (they seem to do OK in that department: I believe they failed in politics before ending at ANet).

The funny thing is, I recently did quit the game. I’m making these because I’ve had fun in the past and want to revert the mistakes made with the recent “balance” patches. If the game achieves reasonable balance, then I will return to playing the game.

Disclaimer : this is only personal point of view.

What are the current balance problems of necromancer/reaper?

The main issue of the necromancer/reaper lie in it’s inability to support it’s teammates. That said, it’s obvious that Anet push this class into a form of indirect “support” which is know as “debuff” or soft condition. These conditions does not provide any “support” even if useful in PvP area, they are mostly useless in PvE. Additionally, the necromancer have always had unsatisfiying primary weapon which have led us to recent change.

So in these recent change Anet pushed us up with a boon corruption effect on the scepter AA. I think we were supposed to see that as the pinacle of what a necromancer may provide as support. While this stupid change have made the weapon useful (read it as totally toxic and broken) in PvP, it also didn’t change the fact that there is no support provided in PvE group content where this weapon need a trait that make it or break it in this specific content.

What is too strong and overbearing in build diversity?

As of today we may considere 3 things as to overbearing on the necromancer :
1- it’s corrupting abilities tend to lock again necromancers into condi-builds.
2- the Soul reaper traitline seem to be one of the 2 traitlines that feel necessary for most of the in game situation.
3- the reaper elite traitline provide a shroud that is a lot more enjoyable, usefull and practical than the deathshroud. Utilities also tend to outshine core abilities.

What is too weak and overshadowed by stronger options?

Here, we fall in very specific area, again that will only reflect my opinions :
Weapon
- the Focus is plagued by long cast times.
- The axe lack a little push to finally blossom

Skills
- Well of darkness have a way to long cool down for a shallow effect
- Well of power need to lose it’s stability effect and simply become an instant skill.
- Spectral grasp is still way to slow.
- Shadow fiend is almost irrelevant.

Traits
Spite : Spitefull spirit simply can’t compet with it’s 2 contender.
Curse : MoC and Parasitic contagion need changes.
Blood Magic : Unholy martyr also need some changes.
Reaper : Soul Eater is still far from being kittenefull trait.

Shroud
Life blast need to be faster
Dark path already have a cast time, there is no need for the additionnal slow projectile that cripple this skill.

Combo
What the necromancer lack the most are reliable combo.

How is your experience in PvE / PvP / and WvW?

In PvP/WvW the necromancer feel almost to strong at the moment
In open PvE, the necromancer is as rubbish as ever, nothing really changed here
In PvE group content the necromancer still lack any synergy with other professions to become a though choice.

What I wouldn’t want to see anymore in the next balance update :

I don’t want to see any more toxicity in the necromancer. The necromancer need to be able to blend into a group without being absolutely needed for a specificity. Corruption is a fine mechanism but it’s just a specificity, to much corruption is toxic for the game as a whole.
Every profession need to be able to fullfill any role In game (that is how the game have been advertised). At the moment the necromancer still can’t fullfill the “support” area and agin, no, boon corruption and conditions are not a form of god **** support. The boon removal abilities are to much of a niche for few professions to become a mechanism that become needed.

Slightly OP:
Reaper’s Shroud 5 / Executioner’s Scythe – it’s a an ice field, giving frost aura w/ leap & blast finishers when normally necro doesn’t have it
Soul Spiral – the sheer amount of poison stacks on top of damage scaling & 300 AoE
Scepter auto’s putrid curse – was buffed a bit too heavily IMO
Path of Corruption (trait) – only when used with reaper
Lingering curse (trait) – duration and/or condi damage could use a cut
Augury of Death (trait) – could use a cut to recharge reduction per foe hit (as far as WvW)
Shivers of Dread trait – could use a cut in chill duration
Deathly chill – could lower base damage and move it to the scaling
Gravedigger – health threshhold

Underpowered:
Death shroud 4 / Life Transfer
Putrid Defense
Vampiric Presence – scaling wise
Spiteful spirit

Usability:
Death shroud 2 /Dark Path
Death shroud 5 / Tainted shackles
Dagger mainhand – should cleave (hit 3 targets) as it is melee
Plague signet – implode when passive effect is used in WvW.
Unholy martyr – no way to condi clear in shroud
Lich – show all utility cooldowns
Plague – show all utility cooldowns
Master of Corruption trait – Plague’s self Poison

1. Necromancer condition dps is not as spiky as other professions. More Terror would be great as long as either bleeds or chills cannot be used at the same time. A new weapon could separate condition types.

2. Minions may be too tough now that they do not die to untargeted AoE. Clones, spirits, turrets, and whatever could be revisited, too. Everything was toughened for PvE before the AoE change.

It’s like 2015 turret engineer… Low skill, high reward. Yes it can be beaten, but it takes more effort than it should. Boons are just gasoline and necros are the fuse, and in some cases it’s better to not use boons at all, which is how it shouldn’t be.
Just take off the unnecessary auto attack scepter buff, increase cool down on CB a bit and change chill to scale more like burning.

Henrik.7560:

It’s like 2015 turret engineer… Low skill, high reward. Yes it can be beaten, but it takes more effort than it should. Boons are just gasoline and necros are the fuse, and in some cases it’s better to not use boons at all, which is how it shouldn’t be.
Just take off the unnecessary auto attack scepter buff, increase cool down on CB a bit and change chill to scale more like burning.

In essence your post reads " Its hard to beat when it should be easy to beat, so please nerf accordingly ".

Same old bullkitten in every game, PvP breaking everything else

Yes, the new corruptions on scepter and dagger look like they are intended to punish players running too many passive or automatic boon generation.

Many condition and boon sources require no skill at all. I think Arenanet is trying to promote more strategy, tactics, and active play by penalizing boon spamming.

TheBravery.9615:

I’m about to make a suggestion spreadsheet thread for necromancers to deal with balance inconsistencies (see links in signature for examples)

Before I do so, I’d like to collect information from other players:

What are the current balance problems of necromancer/reaper?
What is too strong and overbearing in build diversity?
What is too weak and overshadowed by stronger options?
How is your experience in PvE / PvP / and WvW?

I look forward to reading everyone’s response.

ignoring the questions for the main reason that this has been discussed more than once for years now.
here’s a reply to the title of your post:
the necromancer is one of those classes that is either a god, or count chocula. pre reaper, it was count chocula. now it is, in even barely competent hands, Hades.
for long time Necro forum posters and readers such as myself, have nothing left but cynicism. this class is both pushed forward and held back by its shroud.

Anchoku.8142:

Yes, the new corruptions on scepter and dagger look like they are intended to punish players running too many passive or automatic boon generation.

Many condition and boon sources require no skill at all. I think Arenanet is trying to promote more strategy, tactics, and active play by penalizing boon spamming.

Actually scepter encourages MORE boon spamming because then you get cover boons. If your only boon is stability/protection then it is more likely that scepter auto will get it off.

Forcing players to run cover boons, then corrupting them, is also beneficial to Necromancer.

For example, consider a build for a constant 2 might is costly, one of which is always corrupted into vulnerability for a roughly even dps trade with the second might.

Now, I realize there are assumptions in this logic. Other professions could be balanced to give them even more ridiculous boon generation negating Necromancer’s boon corruption.

The runaway arms race for boons, conditions, and cleansing is something I have complained about before. To me, it is bordering on ludicrous the sheer number of performance modifiers on players and NPCs at any time. A boon or condition should mean something significant and require attention. Most professions and skills for players and NPCs auto generate buffs and debuffs.

You can’t balance necromancer without nerfing other profesions, you just can’t.

Henrik.7560:

It’s like 2015 turret engineer… Low skill, high reward. Yes it can be beaten, but it takes more effort than it should. Boons are just gasoline and necros are the fuse, and in some cases it’s better to not use boons at all, which is how it shouldn’t be.
Just take off the unnecessary auto attack scepter buff, increase cool down on CB a bit and change chill to scale more like burning.

No, this is EXACTLY how it should be when fighting a necromancer. You have to change how you fight to take out this class. No more “this works on everything” builds is a GOOD thing. A class that punishes you ‘hard’ for using boon stacking is a good thing. Basically, get good so you don’t need the boons or simply be fodder for the necromancer…after all the necro is fodder for anyone that starves their life force/conditions.

AKA build for survival and stop building to maximize DPS.

Anchoku.8142:

Forcing players to run cover boons, then corrupting them, is also beneficial to Necromancer.

For example, consider a build for a constant 2 might is costly, one of which is always corrupted into vulnerability for a roughly even dps trade with the second might.

Now, I realize there are assumptions in this logic. Other professions could be balanced to give them even more ridiculous boon generation negating Necromancer’s boon corruption.

The runaway arms race for boons, conditions, and cleansing is something I have complained about before. To me, it is bordering on ludicrous the sheer number of performance modifiers on players and NPCs at any time. A boon or condition should mean something significant and require attention. Most professions and skills for players and NPCs auto generate buffs and debuffs.

I do agree with this arms race, most skills need their boon giving stripped from them. Boons should last long enough for a single attack, be it defensive or offensive in nature. It should take every person in your group, timing things amazingly well to get to 25 stacks of any boon. It is way too easy for some classes to sit at 15-20 stacks of might permanently.

If necromancers are to be the kings of condition and boon destruction, then it should be impossible to ever out buff the debuffing of a necromancer. The strategy for fighting a necro should be “don’t buff, ever” starve them of their fuel. Kind of like fighting a reaper is “stay out of melee at all costs”.

Infusion.7149:

Slightly OP:
Reaper’s Shroud 5 / Executioner’s Scythe – it’s a an ice field, giving frost aura w/ leap & blast finishers when normally necro doesn’t have it

Unholy martyr – no way to condi clear in shroud

Necromancers has 4 blast finishers, Staff 4, Bone minions, and Wurm. They are not easily accessible so removing the ice field is a straight out nerf and not a shave. The only 2 easy finishers that can feasibly be used while the Ice field is active are also in Reaper Shroud. The ice field is active long enough to use both.

You also seem to be forgetting Shrouded Removal, which clears a condi every 3 seconds while in shroud(It even clears one when entering it). The real problem with Unholy Marytr is that it is not an easy trait to use, if you use it then you need the condition management to handle it, most people don’t so they call it useless. It’s a niche trait.

Also Axe/focus are actually 2 very powerful weapons, only complaint being a long cast time on Focus 5. Did you guys know the damage modifiers from the traits carry over into Shroud? That is a 15% damage bonus if no boons and at least 1 stack of vulnerability. With the cooldown reduction the skills become kinda stupid as you get to use them over and over. Focus 4 + Axe 2 will do like 10k damage. Focus 4 crits for 2200 in Spvp and on average I am hitting 7000-ish damage on axe 2 and you can layer both of them. As you are walking up to someone cast focus 4 and lead into it with Axe 2, so 10k damage-ish over 3 seconds…. That kinda sounds like burst damage to me.

I want Terrormancer back, it was my favorite condi spec. Easiest way to do that would be to make the Fear duration on Fear of Death to 100% instead of 50%

Dhummfire needs to function better with Death Shroud or it needs to affect more then just the auto attack. 3 stacks of burning for 5 seconds on a 5 second CD works, it is sustainy and it works with regular life blasts.

The range on Transfusion needs to be increased, I’ve pulled people only to have them still stomped because it wasn’t far enough. Or stomp range reduced, probably a better choice.

The blast finisher on Flesh wurm needs to be removed, it’s a useless finisher for a GTFO skill that ONLY works with Death Nova. Unsure what I’d move it too, Axe 3, the end blast from Death Shroud 5?

Rending Shroud doesn’t compete well(get it cause necro wells) enough with the 2 other traits, I’d either lower the time between pulses or increase the stacks, or add bonus vuln duration on it.

Barbed precision sucks, 33% on crit isn’t anything, statisically you need 3 crits to get one bleed and with 50%-ish crit you need 6 hits for one 5 second bleed, and the duration doesn’t do enough to balance it out when necro’s can’t easily get above 20 stacks anyways. I’d add 100% chance to bleed on crit while in shroud at LEAST.

Remove the boon corruption on dagger 5 and give dagger offhand Life force generation. Most necros(myself included) are switching to other off hands for life force generation specifically.

Make Parasitic contagion heal while in shroud, it is a “siphon” after all.

Spiteful Spirit needs more to be a grandmaster trait, Lingering Curse is a similar trait as it casts a weapon skill on entering Shroud and it also has Weakness on crit. Either Cripple on hit or Retaliation on hit would be pretty good. The Cripple on hit might be a bit OP though with Reaper and the amount of Chill that can be put on the table.

Blighters Boon needs a rework, it worked before because it wasn’t just your own boons, but that made it OP. Now it isn’t being taken because the boon generation on necromancers is very limited. Make it a passive? So long as you have a boon ON you you gain 1% life force per second or heal for regeneration level healing while in Shroud?

Signet of Undeath needs a shorter cast time, or the Life force generation needs to be buffed. Or the passive changed, other classes have way easier to use(sometimes more powerful) rez skills.

The boon range on Blood is power is too small.

Death Shroud 2 needs to be a ground targeted teleport. All the movement utilities on the necromancer are backwards in direction(Spectral walk and Flesh wurm). Making Death Shroud 2 ground targeted makes it way easier to use aggressively or defensively.

Allow Death Shroud 5 to stack on targets less then 5, that would mean on one target you’d get a 5 second immobilize and 15 stacks of torment. Or some mix based on who is closer when cast. (With the barbed precision change I mentioned earlier Death Shroud becomes actually useful for condition builds)

Make the blood magic siphons scale with Healing power a bit better. Necromancers can get north of 2200 healing power in open world and Vampiric Aura heals for 43 damage. Citation: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQJBIhowbAmCA-ThRDABZp8Lq9HA4BAonegLV/xQlgkC4b9WA-e

Remove the health threshold on Quickening Thirst and make the cooldown reduction a flat 20% like other traits.

Unyielding Blast needs a buff, you removed the main reason why anyone takes it. wasn’t the Vuln but the piercing/no target limit on Shroud 1 that make that trait worthwhile.

Well of Blood needs a buff, 280 per tick for 5 ticks over 5 seconds is ineffective. For a heal skill I’d buff it to 700 base at least. It is the only way for a Necromancer to project healing while not being there themselves. It doesn’t even scale very well with Healing Power

Well of Darkness is underwhelming, there are longer blind “fields” on shorter cooldowns, whilst having an unblockable blind field is nice, there are better choices. Shorter cooldown please.

Well of power is a weird skill, it is one of the few group support skills a Necromancer has but is also a stun break. The time to use well of power as a stun break vs when to use it for group support don’t mesh at all.

Opinion/

Unholy Fervor does not carry over into Shroud, sadly. The stronger Axe mastery trait did, but Unholy Fervor only affects Rending Claws, Ghastly Claws, and Unholy Feast. I’m betting it does not work on Spiteful Spirit anymore, either.

Also, Well of Blood “doesn’t even scale very well with Healing Power.” Are you kidding me? It scales just as well as Reaper Transfusion, and that’s not including the 1.0 scaling that you yourself get on it. It has the highest scaling of any AoE heal in the entire game (2.4), and yes, this is post-nerf. The next closest is Geyser at 2.25.

The problem there, being that Geyser’s cooldown is half that of Well of Blood.

@MasterElements.5023
Blighters Boon works with Spite’s minor trait that gives you might per hit , along with Infusing Terror.

It also synergizes with Sigil of Strength.

@Infusion Yeah I know, a friend made a build surrounding Blighter’s Boon, had like 1000 heals per Shroud auto attack because of the might. If you go all into it, and really work it it can work, much like Unholy Marytr. My suggestion was more to make it easier to use and more reliable. Biggest weakness for Blighter’s Boon is that if you are not in Spite and stacking Might, the Life Force and Healing you get out of it becomes super minimal. By simply having a single boon to get the effect you divorce it from the Spite tree.

@Drarnor Kunoram Do you got something official to back up Unholy Fervor not working on shroud? I’d like to confirm that if I can. Also the AoE ticks for Well of Blood have a 0.4 healing scale. With 2200 HP they were ticking for 1150, so 5500-ish over 5 seconds, which is a lot better then I had in my head. The problem that it is attached to a heal skill, using it to heal allies means the 7k self healing could very well be wasted.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Well_of_Blood

6 ticks total on all Necro wells. One immediately, then 1/ sec for 5 seconds.

As for Unholy Fervor, it’s right in the trait description: “axe skills deal…” Axe training was “while wielding an axe.”. It’s still a mystery as to why it got nerfed in the first place.