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Before profession balance: Necro Signets
I play signet mod, but i think signet of undeath is useless, is anyone using it? And why ?
Only for dungeons…
80 Necro (5), 80 Guard (4), 80 Mesmer (3)
80 Ranger (3), 80 Warrior (3), 80 Thief (3)
80 Ele (2), 80 Engi (3), 80 Rev (2)
80 Ranger (3), 80 Warrior (3), 80 Thief (3)
80 Ele (2), 80 Engi (3), 80 Rev (2)
I hope this thread turns out to be similar like Traitworks, just with utility skills.
Vampirism
The passive part feels weak, even in the current state it can heal better. Removing the ICD alone could make it wonderful and if it still lacks sustain, the numbers can go up.
Can you be specific about the active? No duration? Why? And the numbers seems to be way too much. Its around 1-2k / hit, right? Thats a bit wow. That could answer why you want a 40s CD on it, but that wouldnt it be too risky? 40 second downtime is hell of a lot.
Spite
Passive is cool as always.
Love the change in the condi application, chill is always welcomed (its a bit overwhelming that way) and the torment with one stack bleed is good also. The cooldown refresh on kill is brilliant, IF in pvp it triggers only on player kill.
Plague
Unblockable? Okaaay … No, please no. I would like it, but no.
I tought about to get reduced damage from conditions, but this idea is better, however the aoe pull part is too unreliable. What if its only affects the necro? And i assume it would have an aoe cap, if not.
Aoe spread … nasty but it feels really really really op in a bigger fight, especially if its followed by Epidemic. Im not sure about this, really not. It would make the necro literally into a condi bomb. Either the passiver or active should be 1 target only and the unblockable should be removed.
Locust
Great! The stunbreaker makes sense here.
Undeath
Passive is good, however i would like to see something more … cool. Something supportive. Soothing mist like heal aura maybe?
The active is overly complicated. And OP. It could be a spammable ress in ideal circumstances (i know that didnt exist but you know balance and stuff ..). The radius increase for a mass ress is a must have. What would be the range btw? The CD is fine, since its a utility, not an elite like Battle standard and not as versatile as Glyph of renewal. Of course a reduced cast time is a must have, 3 seconds is just too much if you need to ress from a distance anywhere. Even in pvp 1 second can be (can be?) acceptable, since we are the master of life and death or what. But the passive needs an overhaul to be more appealing compared to other options.
I hope this thread turns out to be similar like Traitworks, just with utility skills.
Vampirism
The passive part feels weak, even in the current state it can heal better. Removing the ICD alone could make it wonderful and if it still lacks sustain, the numbers can go up.
Can you be specific about the active? No duration? Why? And the numbers seems to be way too much. Its around 1-2k / hit, right? Thats a bit wow. That could answer why you want a 40s CD on it, but that wouldnt it be too risky? 40 second downtime is hell of a lot.Spite
Passive is cool as always.
Love the change in the condi application, chill is always welcomed (its a bit overwhelming that way) and the torment with one stack bleed is good also. The cooldown refresh on kill is brilliant, IF in pvp it triggers only on player kill.Plague
Unblockable? Okaaay … No, please no. I would like it, but no.
I tought about to get reduced damage from conditions, but this idea is better, however the aoe pull part is too unreliable. What if its only affects the necro? And i assume it would have an aoe cap, if not.
Aoe spread … nasty but it feels really really really op in a bigger fight, especially if its followed by Epidemic. Im not sure about this, really not. It would make the necro literally into a condi bomb. Either the passiver or active should be 1 target only and the unblockable should be removed.Locust
Great! The stunbreaker makes sense here.Undeath
Passive is good, however i would like to see something more … cool. Something supportive. Soothing mist like heal aura maybe?
The active is overly complicated. And OP. It could be a spammable ress in ideal circumstances (i know that didnt exist but you know balance and stuff ..). The radius increase for a mass ress is a must have. What would be the range btw? The CD is fine, since its a utility, not an elite like Battle standard and not as versatile as Glyph of renewal. Of course a reduced cast time is a must have, 3 seconds is just too much if you need to ress from a distance anywhere. Even in pvp 1 second can be (can be?) acceptable, since we are the master of life and death or what. But the passive needs an overhaul to be more appealing compared to other options.
Vamp – its actually just current scaling beefed up, damage on passive and icd removed from active… otherwise its identical to the in game version which has its niche uses but is generally a no pick.
Spite – Yup, means guards, eles, mesmers and lyssa users get to remove more of your power, but it doesnt make it as overwhelming (weakness down to 5 and tormet is 75% of a bleed if you dont move, so a bit of a power cut, but a bigger reward for doing a proper combo).
Plague – so it would be a bit like current but function differently, more like the guardian consecrations instead of pullsing like wells, a permanent effect applied to all allies within 1200 range that changes target condition application from ally x to the owner of the buff, as for the aoe spead, im sorry, but after the “bug” on putrid mark, its very needed and its not like cond immunity, aoe cond removal or plain not being in melee (well 240 which is out of melee if we are gracious using necro dagger as standard) of the necro exists.
Undeath – Well we kinda miss complicated skills in GW2 in general… more hold/channel longer for better things like the norn charge or the crap toss run.
Thus why not you do the channel, aoe around you effect like the engie rez field that actually works on the dead (and optiona but if failed dead allies get to be your minions), also its a channel so any cc would stop it and if you do a full rez you would get a massive cooldown balancing it for pvp and wvwvw.
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
Vamp – Agree, the ICD is need to be removed and the damage portion on the active would be nice, especially in WvW and in PvE for trash mobs. The active should be balanced with the cooldown. If the CD is high (even 30s is high imo) the active siphon needs to be stupidly effective.
I hate to bring it up, but the passive should be on pair with Healing signet. Why? Well we cant escape. Secondly the only downtime you dont get hit is when you can fear and / or kite, which is not that simple in WvW and in sPvP you already fight on a point most of the time, so the enemy is close to you. Thirdly it wont work in DS while you absorb damage. The problem is Dire gear … even without 0 healing power, you have so much passive defense that can make it totally OP and slap Weakness into the picture and … you get it. I hope it wont appear in sPvP.
Spite – Exactly, great idea. The 5s weakness hurts a bit, but it looks like balanced, it needs some shaving after adding extra conditions to it and the refreshing ability.
Plague – Agree, but if a 20 second full cleanse (with traits ofc) from allies was OP, than it would be beyond OP. Its condi immunity for allies around you (capped at 5) until you die or blow the active.
A few question. Other condi duration reduction would effect it too, right? So it can negate every kind of condition really heavily. With Melandru runes it would be 58% and in WvW with Lemongrass its 98% … On everything, including damaging conditions. I assume your possible +condi duration would affect the spread, but thats another story.
SO … how would you make the Passive part to work? 1 pulse / second on 5 nearest ally and it would pull everything on them with reduced duration applied, right?
Undeath – After rereading, i completely missunderstood your idea. Why would you increase the cooldown, if you can manage to cast a 5 second channel? Decrease wouldnt be better? Especially since it would be melee range. Or it should have some interaction with Life force (that should have another topic btw).
Just for this tiny little aspect of it i would treat is as a high risk ability, not just a banner which can be thrown into the battlefield from a mile away.
Sooo …
a. It would work on dead players too (party members>downed players>dead players prioritized).
b. Pulse heals a LOT (that need to be looked at in the dead players case).
c. Maybe a higher cap of 3 target, but since its just a util …
d. Bigger range! 600 looks good.
e. Rebalancing CD.
f. Meaningful, but not OP effect if it fails.
edit: I totally forgot the fact that we should take into consideration that these skills would work in the future while in DS.
(edited by Dalanor.5387)
If you go to the official Wiki, you will see that Signets is not listed under Special skill types.
There is only one Adept trait skill improvement for signets reducing ICD by a flat rate and adding a stack of three Might. Signets, as they are, can only be used ad hoc. There is no signet centered build because they have no synergistic effect.
Necromancer needs at least a Master trait skill that reduces CD an additional amount based upon the number of signets slotted, or some other progressive bonus to provide some sort of synergy.
A Grandmaster trait to improve signets, in addition to Master and Adept, would also do a lot for making a signet build. The Grandmaster trait skill placement could be in Death Magic to prevent boosts to both minions and signets and the staff is too much of a generalized AoE support weapon to be a threat in wvw or pvp in a signet build.
Signet of Spite is alreaey pretty execute button for Terrormancer. Refreshing it’s cooldown on kill would make it probably best condition utility across the game
Imagine it on WvWvW
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Anchoku, thanks for bringing that up!
How would you guys change the Signet mastery trait? 3 stack of might for 10 seconds is a bit lackluster.
Signet are almost perfect as they are, locust may need a smaller Cd (But not much), Plague is awesome and the passif seem to work properly now. Vamp signet with the trait the CD feel right and the passif is enough combine with good life force regen and “vital persistence” to keep you alive.
I don’t use spite signet because i rather put spectral grasp for my chill mod. And finally the signet of undeath need either a lower CD or a rework of the passif…
(And im mainly talking about spvp)Edit: maybe give 4-5stack since the CD on signet aren’t small.
Locust needs to work as a actual utility skill not a second heal only if surrounded/right now has no use outside of movementspeed, which while is nice defeats the whole point of being a signet, same with plague (also the fact that plague signet can be blinded is funny, thus making it plain a pbaoe transfer makes way more sense), spite is kinda still bad in pve (thus more condis for better scepter 3 and target the weak, since you get a bigger benefit from the 180 power in almost every case except against the husks on wurm) and Undeath needs a plain rework after the chain of nerfs it got over time, thus having a full team rez for 5 min would be very cool/like a last stand option in keeps (and yes on the usual 5 target aoe limit), also it wouldnt exactly heal alive allies, just downed and defeated… healing alive allies would be op (full reasoning here for cd, downed targets are on 50% hp, by the time you would finish the base channel which wouldnt increase the cd if they got 1 tick of their bandage off, they would be on the feet if not damaged hard, it would be pretty much a aoe version of going up to your allies and pressing f from a safeish enough distance.
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
(edited by Andele.1306)
Anchoku, thanks for bringing that up!
How would you guys change the Signet mastery trait? 3 stack of might for 10 seconds is a bit lackluster.
its your normal 20% CDR trait with an ok bonus as adept trait. how much more do you want? if you make the side effect any stronger, it would be moved to a master then probably.
the only thing i could imagine is to let it give a different boon depending on which signet you use.
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Gunnar’s Hold
Anchoku, thanks for bringing that up!
How would you guys change the Signet mastery trait? 3 stack of might for 10 seconds is a bit lackluster.its your normal 20% CDR trait with an ok bonus as adept trait. how much more do you want? if you make the side effect any stronger, it would be moved to a master then probably.
the only thing i could imagine is to let it give a different boon depending on which signet you use.
Thats a good idea actually, that would make more sense.
You know how good 25% speed on a necro dagger is good right? Combine with my chill i can easily stay near my target and auto attack him.
When your using signet, sometime you will take it for the passif way more than the active and that the case with locust.
Now i dont see it as a “second heal” at all since it heal almost nothing. It good if you need to win 2-3sec to enter your DS and/or gain a roll.
Its a 5-6k heal if you hit 5 targets… thats more than most heals in game… and it has better scaling… but does no damage since its power scaling is bugged and stays pretty much the same across all levels,100-400 damage. And yes thats the point, you shouldnt bring signets just for the passive… thats kinda the entire problem with healing signet on warriors, there is/was no reason to pop the active.
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
Signet of mercy gives 180 healing power. Fail.
edit: On topic with less trolling. If you use locust for whatever reason, im not sure its a good idea. Popping it in combat for some extra heal serves its purpose, go in and stay there until the fight ends, since necro cant really escape.
Signet of mercy gives 180 healing power. Fail.
edit: On topic with less trolling. If you use locust for whatever reason, im not sure its a good idea. Popping it in combat for some extra heal serves its purpose, go in and stay there until the fight ends, since necro cant really escape.
Yup, but seriously if you want a heal, get a power build with 20+ in spite and pop it in the middle of the golem horde (as in you stand in the middle) in pvp, trait in vampric and bloodlust for a bit more kittened up scaling and heal for a ton, works in pve, but was kinda heavily nerfed a few patches ago.
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
I think the issue we currently have with Signets is how utterly disjointed their effects are. Compare them to, say, Elementalist signets, on a conceptual level, and you’ll see what I mean. And that’s without traits for them.
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Dalanor, Signet Mastery, I feel, is pretty powerful for an Adept trait. The problem with signets is that there is nothing beyond Signet Mastery or incentive to run more than you need for any particular activity. Signets for the Necromancer remain only half done.
They were buffed last year to try and compensate for their unpopularity. Locust was given a boost in speed for its passive that relieved players of having to trait and run both war horn and Spectral Mastery to get any sort of decent traveling boost.
Spite’s passive Power boost was also significantly increased because, as it was before, the cool down for activating it is substantial and, if the passive was some tiny, worthless power boost, then few would ever run it except in pvp before the minions were fixed.
The signets were reworked but still there is no reason to design a build around them. They are utilities you can pick from if there is a specific reason they are needed.
Signet of Vampirism is an obvious, and ineffective, ploy to make signets more popular but it is only useful when serious heals are not needed (Twisted lane battles) so some of the heal can be converted to dps. Overall, it is only good for champs that will not attack you because someone else in your group can hold hate, or because the champs are passive.
Edit: One more point about signets to consider is that they are primarily support skills. Not one significantly adds to dps directly. SoS is a power boost, not a direct attack like WoS, and that is only its passive. Its active is mostly CC. Consider what the other signets actually do compared to other skills. Effects are muted like all signets in the game. The passives can be usually tolerable for the slot they take in specific situations but trait skills like Axe Training are arguably as good as, or better than, any signet’s passive.
So if you think of signets as a trait skill that is sub-par unless you trait for it and still sub-par for many situations, where does that leave signets?
(edited by Anchoku.8142)
I know, they serve a purpose on their own, not a complete skillset for a viable build like how warriors get their signets. Actually they arent bad if you use only signets.
However both signets need tweaks to be actually good. Maybe except Spite, thats fine currently.
But the trait for them while easily accesable and gives another bonus upon usage beside the cd reduction is a bit weird. 3 might for 10 seconds? Okaaay, it amplifies Spite and more or less Plague too, but the others cant really benefit from it. Thats my only problem whit Signet mastery. Good, but could be better as the signets themselves.
The passive for plague signet needs to tic every second.
As it is, it doesn’t tic enough.
You are trying to help out your team by clearing some of their conditions, but it doesn’t work enough to help your teammates build without their own massive condition clears.
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Also its unreliable. When it pulls a cripple instead of the 20 stack bleed is … stupid.