Guild Wars 2

I would seriously like to know who made the necromancer power build with Dhuumfire in it, that has no condition duration… and utilizes berserker gear.

This is the exact reason why i still published those two videos… even though it was far later then i originally wanted and brought me no profit what so ever.
Here we go again, exactly like last time… people who have no idea about real DPS numbers, the difference between DS 1 and RS 1 based on AS, and so on… continue teaching the community.

When people told me just now there’s a PvE berserker reaper power build with dhuumfire in it on metabattle we all laughed, and i thought they were just trolling me…

I just saw it… i’m speechless…

Well… what can i say… it will just make the builds that i will publish that much more awesome, so at least there’s that.

Pretty simple: Foot in the Grave is for stability, so there’s no dps increase to be found, it’s more something for skipping, wvw and pvp.
Death Perception is nice, but with Decimate Defenses, Berserker Gear and and party buffs you’re looking at pretty much 100% critchance anyway, so it’s completely overkill and wasted.
What does that leave for us? Dhuumfire.
Besides, you don’t run SR all the time, in high level fractals you tend to prefer Blood Magic because of all leech (and because you can blow up the clown car at underground facility lmao) and in solo play (or sometimes in group play) you can run Death Magic and go with a bunch of minions. Curses is personally a line I rarely use in power specs, only when I badly need cd reduction on CPC for some reason.

Isnt it obvious. Its exactly as Novaan explained. Or are you going to call people idiots for making rational decisions when building for dps?

In reality all 3 traits are rather pointless on a full glass spec. But dhuumfire is probably the best choice if you dont need stab/stunbreaks. Because as far as i can tell RS auto is not good enough to justify using in a standard rotation. Hence why ive been using blood magic instead which also provides well cooldowns.

Nemesis.8593:

on metabattle

While I can’t speak to this specific build, I have no clue if it is better or what, using metabattle as a source for good builds is a bad idea. It is stuff people copy from big names, and is really just there to serve as a really basic starting point for people who want to copypasta without thinking. It is also community moderated primarily, so if you don’t like it go argue with them directly and change it.

yeah i use blood magic most of the time. not only reduces it my wells cd (= more dps) but also siphons and gives prot (= more dps, sustain)
also it makes minion siphon (= more dps + sustain)
also in solo, minions get vamp aura (=more dps)
also you get vamp aura and the minor personal lifesteal (=more dps, sustain)
sustain = scholar bonus = more dps
in general i think BM is superior to 5% modifier from SR, especially in group

and for RS auto, i don’t really enjoy it, feels underpowered. my usual rotation is focus 4>wells>gs skills for burst, rs 5, stay in rs and do sth or go back to gs, auto a little until u can weapon swap, auto with dagger until 50% hp, then spam gravedigger. (no swapping back to dagger if fight is short). overall i dont see gs auto much worse (although it is), so if im stuck in gs for some reason, i dont feel bad when autoattacking – sometimes its not worth swapping to dagger when boss is going to be 50% soon

Bhawb.7408:

Nemesis.8593:

on metabattle

While I can’t speak to this specific build, I have no clue if it is better or what, using metabattle as a source for good builds is a bad idea. It is stuff people copy from big names, and is really just there to serve as a really basic starting point for people who want to copypasta without thinking. It is also community moderated primarily, so if you don’t like it go argue with them directly and change it.

^ Pretty much this.

If you need to pick up a quick build for something go to metabattle and such. If you actually wanna learn the class and master it then metabattle becomes less so a bible and more so just another guide since at that point players should know the best tool to bring to the content they’re up against.

im pure zerk with dhuumfire. when I get quickness ive had up to 3k burning damage. its def worth it

Actually… i think i’ll keep some information to myself for a while…

Azure.8670:

im pure zerk with dhuumfire. when I get quickness ive had up to 3k burning damage. its def worth it

Especially with Reaper’s Onslaught, you can stack it even faster.

Depending on the situation, really. Decimate defenses and zerker gear give you basicly 100% crit. The ramp up time on reaper for vulnerability is really fast and steady, by just autoattacking in RS you can maintain 25 might and 25 vuln permanently. Picking Death Perception here is overkill. The Burning ticks for 1700 by the time your might stacks are up, some more enemies have been added with high toughness, which make those burn stacks so much more valuable.

I dont know if you can max out DPS more with Sinister or Vipers gear but for me its much better in the long term fights. Also because unlike DP its not limited to DS / RS.

Nemesis.8593:

Actually… i think i’ll keep some information to myself for a while…

Why not make it a permanent thing?

silvermember.8941:

Nemesis.8593:

Actually… i think i’ll keep some information to myself for a while…

Why not make it a permanent thing?

Who said the necro community was better ? Bury the hatchet guys.
If you want to pick a fight, go for anet imbalance team.

silvermember.8941:

Nemesis.8593:

Actually… i think i’ll keep some information to myself for a while…

Why not make it a permanent thing?

Well… a lot of people are waiting for builds from me, and you can always not read my posts.
Btw… i like your signature

Ara.4569:

Who said the necro community was better ? Bury the hatchet guys.
If you want to pick a fight, go for anet imbalance team.

He literally made a thread for the purpose of making fun of people’s builds. I don’t know how everyone is supposed to respond nicely to that?

yeah especially when his builds aren’t good at all ;P

Nemesis, you’re a smart cookie and all. But this is getting out of hand.

Nemesis.8593:

Actually… i think i’ll keep some information to myself for a while…

Please do this forever.

Nemesis.8593:

I would seriously like to know who made the necromancer power build with Dhuumfire in it, that has no condition duration… and utilizes berserker gear.

This is the exact reason why i still published those two videos… even though it was far later then i originally wanted and brought me no profit what so ever.
Here we go again, exactly like last time… people who have no idea about real DPS numbers, the difference between DS 1 and RS 1 based on AS, and so on… continue teaching the community.

When people told me just now there’s a PvE berserker reaper power build with dhuumfire in it on metabattle we all laughed, and i thought they were just trolling me…

I just saw it… i’m speechless…

Well… what can i say… it will just make the builds that i will publish that much more awesome, so at least there’s that.

I have only 2 ways of understanding this:

1. you think the build is fine but that they would do better damage with hybrid gear (sinister)
2. you think if he wants to be geared as a berserker, he should switch from dhuumfire to death perception

If it is 1, then I don’t know I haven’t try to estimate the DPS. Maybe sinister reaper does more damage than berserker reaper. I feel like it doesn’t, but I honestly don’t know. In PvP for sure, sinister reaper is very strong.

If it is 2… then I’m worried about your theory crafting abilities. There is such thing as overkill when it comes to crit chance (100%), and thus dhuumfire is straight out better. This is obvious since the reaper is already beyond 100%, but in particular since burning has a pretty high base damage.

note: this is one case where maths cannot lie. There is no unrealistic assumptions, this is really first grade maths (additions).

Deathly Chill is also the best grandmaster DPS trait for berserker reaper.

How do you guys think Runes of the Flame Legion would be instead of Runes of the Scholar? Possibly permanent 7% boost to damage versus an easy loss of the 10% and trade the Ferocity for Burning duration.

I can see why they would take Dhuumfire for a bit more damage (around 1.8k with 25 stacks of might maintianing 6 stacks + 25 stacks of Vuln)
but that is... just reaper 1 spam for the whole fight to maintain this. which isnt really great dps
Now if the build has some burning/condi duration then I can see a bigger benefit of running dhuumfire.

Brando.1374:

I can see why they would take Dhuumfire for a bit more damage (around 1.8k with 25 stacks of might maintianing 6 stacks + 25 stacks of Vuln)
but that is… just reaper 1 spam for the whole fight to maintain this. which isnt really great dps
Now if the build has some burning/condi duration then I can see a bigger benefit of running dhuumfire.

It’s more taken because you are in soul reaping already and the other talents offer nothing to a zerker unless you didn’t take decimate defenses.

Really comes down to Decimate Defenses vs Chilling Victory or ditching Soul reaping entirely which for a general purpose build is a bad idea not to mention it murders your ability to maintain 25 vuln stacks.

This should be a time of open exploration and testing of all kinds of different builds and possibilities. To stifle this early expac renaissance out of some sense of pride is a disservice to the growth of the class.

And it sounds like Dhuumfire with Zerker might not be so bad with even rudimentary analysis, if you go soul reaping.

silvermember.8941:

Nemesis.8593:

Actually… i think i’ll keep some information to myself for a while…

Why not make it a permanent thing?

^

It adds more damage than Death Perception.

Either way, the answer is to share your builds and explain how they work. Maybe your builds are better than the zerker builds.

Khristophoros.7194:

It adds more damage than Death Perception.

Either way, the answer is to share your builds and explain how they work. Maybe your builds are better than the zerker builds.

RS 1 is a melee AoE spell and even with higher AS it still has lower overall DPS then DS 1 which is ranged.
Someone decided to add dhuumfire to an AoE spell and use it for single target… as a meleer… instead of having higher DPS at the safety of range.

Someone else said “it’s definitely worth it… with quickness i saw burns tick up to 3K”. That means people are going to waste the quickness buff on RS 1 burns, in a zerker build… instead of using it to buff their Lich Form, which can hit 17K each hit… and has lower AS then 1 sec.

In conclusion… people do less damage, and are in more danger which translates in lower DPS uptime… and they are already thinking that in fact they do more, which is the reason why they are defending the build.

Metabattle… right… by all means… the people that keep trolling me for trying to help them can go ahead and play ineffectively if that is their wish.

Well, I know for sure that definitely not everyone wants to play the most efficient way always and I’m an example of that. Of course, sometimes I prefer the efficient way but the most part of the time I just want to try different things which I consider cool. RS1 with Dhuumfire on berserker gear is way funnier to use than spam Lich 1 (yes, I’m running this currently on PvE and I’m having a total blast with it).

My point is you should stop trying to make everyone play your builds, which btw you don’t stop mention and don’t publish. That, my friend, has a name and is generating hype for self-promotion to get more views on your channel…. just the same thing you blame others for doing.

Metabattle, on the other hand, is a total mess, I agree with you on that.

As for the one who came up with the build, hard to say. I played a part, spoj played a part, I think Bawb played a part, too.

It was part of the theory crafting that we were going through. On a shroud focused reaper (spite/soul reaping/reaper), the reaper is capable of stacking 25 vulnerability and 25 might by himself. This leads to a bit of an issue regarding the grandmaster trait in soul reaping. Decimate Defenses makes Deathly Perception obsolete. Foot in the grave, while being a very nice utility on its own, isn’t always necessary. The end choice was Dhuumfire.

At maximum might, a zerker reaper hits for about 248 per tick. Last time I did any calculations, a reaper’s onslaught boosted auto attack had about the same DPS as the greatsword auto attack… before factoring in Burning. I’ll do a quick check…

I just did a quick check. With onsalught, I’m getting a total attack chain time of 2.075. Round up or down as you see fit. With no gear equipped, this comes to a raw tooltip DPS of (235 + 235 + 469) about 438. The sword auto attack does 469 raw tooltip DPS (391 + 469 + 547 over 3 seconds), and the dagger does 473 raw tooltip DPS.

I call it “raw” because it doesn’t include anything else. No might/vuln/chill/life force generation. Just the basic numbers. From this, you can see that sword auto attack is roughly the same as the dagger auto attack, while also being about 7% higher than the Reaper Shroud auto attack. Now, we can acquire a few things from this. In particular, how much effective power you’ll need for Sword Auto to do more damage than Shroud Auto:

Each Shroud Auto chain stacks 3 × 3 / 2 stack of burning, coming to about 4.5 stacks sustained. This is 1,115 additional DPS. We can find the point where the 7.077% ,difference in direct damage between sword auto and shroud auto is equivalent to 1,115 DPS. First, we take the tooltip difference between greatsword auto and dagger auto (31), then divide 1,115 by it (to get 36). This is the scalar multiple that needs to be applied to direct damage. Direct damage scales linearly with power, so at 2000 power you’ll be doing twice the tooltip damage (in our case, 62 extra damage). So, since 1,115 is 36 times larger than 31, we will need 36,000 effective power.

Effective power here is your power after taking into account all multipliers. Sigils, rune bonuses, might, crit damage, vulnerability, group buffs, etc. To put it into scale, I’m not sure the necromancer can get higher than 20k effective power. Heck, I just did a quick calculation on my zerker necro, and without group buffs I’m maxing out at 14,178 effective power. Special note here, vulnerability affects the burn damage as well, so you can disregard it in the “how much power will I need” calculation for this particular case.

This means that, with reapers onslaught and dhuumfire, Shroud Auto Attack has higher DPS than the Greatsword and Dagger Auto Attacks. Now, is this the best DPS rotation? Good question. I never compared anything other than auto attacks. If there is a rotation that I don’t know about that does more damage, but neither involves nor can’t be improved upon by Reaper Dhuumfire, let me know. If I’ve made a mistake in my calculations, let me know.

EDIT: Side Note: gravedigger might need a buff. I just timed it, and I am getting 2.5 second total activation times. This puts it at exactly as much damage as auto attacking. This was only a quick check, though.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

As for the one who came up with the build, hard to say. I played a part, spoj played a part, I think Bawb played a part, too.

It was part of the theory crafting that we were going through. On a shroud focused reaper (spite/soul reaping/reaper), the reaper is capable of stacking 25 vulnerability and 25 might by himself. This leads to a bit of an issue regarding the grandmaster trait in soul reaping. Decimate Defenses makes Deathly Perception obsolete. Foot in the grave, while being a very nice utility on its own, isn’t always necessary. The end choice was Dhuumfire.

At maximum might, a zerker reaper hits for about 248 per tick. Last time I did any calculations, a reaper’s onslaught boosted auto attack had about the same DPS as the greatsword auto attack… before factoring in Burning. I’ll do a quick check…

I just did a quick check. With onsalught, I’m getting a total attack chain time of 2.075. Round up or down as you see fit. With no gear equipped, this comes to a raw tooltip DPS of (235 + 235 + 469) about 438. The sword auto attack does 469 raw tooltip DPS (391 + 469 + 547 over 3 seconds), and the dagger does 473 raw tooltip DPS.

I call it “raw” because it doesn’t include anything else. No might/vuln/chill/life force generation. Just the basic numbers. From this, you can see that sword auto attack is roughly the same as the dagger auto attack, while also being about 7% higher than the Reaper Shroud auto attack. Now, we can acquire a few things from this. In particular, how much effective power you’ll need for Sword Auto to do more damage than Shroud Auto:

Each Shroud Auto chain stacks 3 × 3 / 2 stack of burning, coming to about 4.5 stacks sustained. This is 1,115 additional DPS. We can find the point where the 7.077% ,difference in direct damage between sword auto and shroud auto is equivalent to 1,115 DPS. First, we take the tooltip difference between greatsword auto and dagger auto (31), then divide 1,115 by it (to get 36). This is the scalar multiple that needs to be applied to direct damage. Direct damage scales linearly with power, so at 2000 power you’ll be doing twice the tooltip damage (in our case, 62 extra damage). So, since 1,115 is 36 times larger than 31, we will need 36,000 effective power.

Effective power here is your power after taking into account all multipliers. Sigils, rune bonuses, might, crit damage, vulnerability, group buffs, etc. To put it into scale, I’m not sure the necromancer can get higher than 20k effective power. Heck, I just did a quick calculation on my zerker necro, and without group buffs I’m maxing out at 14,178 effective power. Special note here, vulnerability affects the burn damage as well, so you can disregard it in the “how much power will I need” calculation for this particular case.

This means that, with reapers onslaught and dhuumfire, Shroud Auto Attack has higher DPS than the Greatsword and Dagger Auto Attacks. Now, is this the best DPS rotation? Good question. I never compared anything other than auto attacks. If there is a rotation that I don’t know about that does more damage, but neither involves nor can’t be improved upon by Reaper Dhuumfire, let me know. If I’ve made a mistake in my calculations, let me know.

EDIT: Side Note: gravedigger might need a buff. I just timed it, and I am getting 2.5 second total activation times. This puts it at exactly as much damage as auto attacking. This was only a quick check, though.

That is in theory my friend…

Using theory Spoj claimed 13.4K DPS on his dagger 1 build, without timewarp or minions… yet when i calculated his real DPS at the Arah Wraithlord fight (which is really really easy fight btw) he was around 7K.

Math… does not match… reality.

Anyway… i didn’t have high hopes for the expansion, but they actually manage to create something amazing… and now they are systematically destroying it with all these nerfs.

They just nerfed the entire Verdant Brink map… if they continue at this rate, the entire content will be finished in a month even by casual players… then the same players who cried “too hard OMG” will cry “OMG no end game, you suk ArenaNet” and then move on… just like last time.

I think this is it… if history repeats its self, there is no way ArenaNet can come back a second time from it.

It has been my general experience that math does match reality. Bad math and improperly applied math doesn’t. If the numbers are off, then there’s a factor that wasn’t taken into consideration. I found that dhuumfire onslaught does more DPS than the other auto attacks, and I didn’t go beyond finding this fact. Adding in more factors just ends up with special cases and nitpicking.

There is one variable in all this that can change things: might stacks. My current calculation assumes 25 might, which a reaper can, indeed, build themselves up to quite easily. But, this isn’t an immediate bonus. So there is a buff ramp_up time, depending how how well your team stacks up might.

Thankfully this can be factored, too. At no might, the burn does 131.5 damage per tick, and adds 592 DPS. Doing the same operation, we get 19,096 effective power to make Shroud Auto Attack equal to Greatsword Auto Attack. While it seems lower, this has the caveat that you must reach this effective power without might stacking or vulnerability, which again probably isn’t possible.

Nemesis.8593:

Khristophoros.7194:

It adds more damage than Death Perception.

Either way, the answer is to share your builds and explain how they work. Maybe your builds are better than the zerker builds.

RS 1 is a melee AoE spell and even with higher AS it still has lower overall DPS then DS 1 which is ranged.
Someone decided to add dhuumfire to an AoE spell and use it for single target… as a meleer… instead of having higher DPS at the safety of range.

Someone else said “it’s definitely worth it… with quickness i saw burns tick up to 3K”. That means people are going to waste the quickness buff on RS 1 burns, in a zerker build… instead of using it to buff their Lich Form, which can hit 17K each hit… and has lower AS then 1 sec.

In conclusion… people do less damage, and are in more danger which translates in lower DPS uptime… and they are already thinking that in fact they do more, which is the reason why they are defending the build.

Metabattle… right… by all means… the people that keep trolling me for trying to help them can go ahead and play ineffectively if that is their wish.

I think Dhuumfire adds more damage than Death Perception even for regular DS though.

But ok, if you’re saying glass cannon reaper isn’t good because it’s too squishy for melee, that’s a different discussion. Regarding that, there’s no reason to go full zerk reaper when you could go full valk.

Khristophoros.7194:

Nemesis.8593:

Khristophoros.7194:

It adds more damage than Death Perception.

Either way, the answer is to share your builds and explain how they work. Maybe your builds are better than the zerker builds.

RS 1 is a melee AoE spell and even with higher AS it still has lower overall DPS then DS 1 which is ranged.
Someone decided to add dhuumfire to an AoE spell and use it for single target… as a meleer… instead of having higher DPS at the safety of range.

Someone else said “it’s definitely worth it… with quickness i saw burns tick up to 3K”. That means people are going to waste the quickness buff on RS 1 burns, in a zerker build… instead of using it to buff their Lich Form, which can hit 17K each hit… and has lower AS then 1 sec.

In conclusion… people do less damage, and are in more danger which translates in lower DPS uptime… and they are already thinking that in fact they do more, which is the reason why they are defending the build.

Metabattle… right… by all means… the people that keep trolling me for trying to help them can go ahead and play ineffectively if that is their wish.

I think Dhuumfire adds more damage than Death Perception even for regular DS though.

But ok, if you’re saying glass cannon reaper isn’t good because it’s too squishy for melee, that’s a different discussion. Regarding that, there’s no reason to go full zerk reaper when you could go full valk.

Burning doesn’t scale with the stats obtained from the items… but DS1 does…
Compare +2K burns on RS1 with 16K hitting Lichform… there is no contest…

Nemesis.8593:

Khristophoros.7194:

Nemesis.8593:

Khristophoros.7194:

It adds more damage than Death Perception.

Either way, the answer is to share your builds and explain how they work. Maybe your builds are better than the zerker builds.

RS 1 is a melee AoE spell and even with higher AS it still has lower overall DPS then DS 1 which is ranged.
Someone decided to add dhuumfire to an AoE spell and use it for single target… as a meleer… instead of having higher DPS at the safety of range.

Someone else said “it’s definitely worth it… with quickness i saw burns tick up to 3K”. That means people are going to waste the quickness buff on RS 1 burns, in a zerker build… instead of using it to buff their Lich Form, which can hit 17K each hit… and has lower AS then 1 sec.

In conclusion… people do less damage, and are in more danger which translates in lower DPS uptime… and they are already thinking that in fact they do more, which is the reason why they are defending the build.

Metabattle… right… by all means… the people that keep trolling me for trying to help them can go ahead and play ineffectively if that is their wish.

I think Dhuumfire adds more damage than Death Perception even for regular DS though.

But ok, if you’re saying glass cannon reaper isn’t good because it’s too squishy for melee, that’s a different discussion. Regarding that, there’s no reason to go full zerk reaper when you could go full valk.

Burning doesn’t scale with the stats obtained from the items… but DS1 does…
Compare +2K burns on RS1 with 16K hitting Lichform… there is no contest…

There is also the fact that Lich Form will be on cd after 15/22.5s, earlier if you transform back and that other Elites may perform better in certain situations so that slotting those over Lich is preferred. On the other hand, Shroud is built in, doesn’t take up one of your skill slots and allows you to swap back and forth on a low cooldown, giving you some really nice utility too depending on if you run DS or RS and it protects your health so that Scholar has longer uptime.

Wow…. this guy is so annoying.

Nemesis.8593:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

As for the one who came up with the build, hard to say. I played a part, spoj played a part, I think Bawb played a part, too.

It was part of the theory crafting that we were going through. On a shroud focused reaper (spite/soul reaping/reaper), the reaper is capable of stacking 25 vulnerability and 25 might by himself. This leads to a bit of an issue regarding the grandmaster trait in soul reaping. Decimate Defenses makes Deathly Perception obsolete. Foot in the grave, while being a very nice utility on its own, isn’t always necessary. The end choice was Dhuumfire.

At maximum might, a zerker reaper hits for about 248 per tick. Last time I did any calculations, a reaper’s onslaught boosted auto attack had about the same DPS as the greatsword auto attack… before factoring in Burning. I’ll do a quick check…

I just did a quick check. With onsalught, I’m getting a total attack chain time of 2.075. Round up or down as you see fit. With no gear equipped, this comes to a raw tooltip DPS of (235 + 235 + 469) about 438. The sword auto attack does 469 raw tooltip DPS (391 + 469 + 547 over 3 seconds), and the dagger does 473 raw tooltip DPS.

I call it “raw” because it doesn’t include anything else. No might/vuln/chill/life force generation. Just the basic numbers. From this, you can see that sword auto attack is roughly the same as the dagger auto attack, while also being about 7% higher than the Reaper Shroud auto attack. Now, we can acquire a few things from this. In particular, how much effective power you’ll need for Sword Auto to do more damage than Shroud Auto:

Each Shroud Auto chain stacks 3 × 3 / 2 stack of burning, coming to about 4.5 stacks sustained. This is 1,115 additional DPS. We can find the point where the 7.077% ,difference in direct damage between sword auto and shroud auto is equivalent to 1,115 DPS. First, we take the tooltip difference between greatsword auto and dagger auto (31), then divide 1,115 by it (to get 36). This is the scalar multiple that needs to be applied to direct damage. Direct damage scales linearly with power, so at 2000 power you’ll be doing twice the tooltip damage (in our case, 62 extra damage). So, since 1,115 is 36 times larger than 31, we will need 36,000 effective power.

Effective power here is your power after taking into account all multipliers. Sigils, rune bonuses, might, crit damage, vulnerability, group buffs, etc. To put it into scale, I’m not sure the necromancer can get higher than 20k effective power. Heck, I just did a quick calculation on my zerker necro, and without group buffs I’m maxing out at 14,178 effective power. Special note here, vulnerability affects the burn damage as well, so you can disregard it in the “how much power will I need” calculation for this particular case.

This means that, with reapers onslaught and dhuumfire, Shroud Auto Attack has higher DPS than the Greatsword and Dagger Auto Attacks. Now, is this the best DPS rotation? Good question. I never compared anything other than auto attacks. If there is a rotation that I don’t know about that does more damage, but neither involves nor can’t be improved upon by Reaper Dhuumfire, let me know. If I’ve made a mistake in my calculations, let me know.

EDIT: Side Note: gravedigger might need a buff. I just timed it, and I am getting 2.5 second total activation times. This puts it at exactly as much damage as auto attacking. This was only a quick check, though.

That is in theory my friend…

Using theory Spoj claimed 13.4K DPS on his dagger 1 build, without timewarp or minions… yet when i calculated his real DPS at the Arah Wraithlord fight (which is really really easy fight btw) he was around 7K.

Math… does not match… reality.

Anyway… i didn’t have high hopes for the expansion, but they actually manage to create something amazing… and now they are systematically destroying it with all these nerfs.

They just nerfed the entire Verdant Brink map… if they continue at this rate, the entire content will be finished in a month even by casual players… then the same players who cried “too hard OMG” will cry “OMG no end game, you suk ArenaNet” and then move on… just like last time.

I think this is it… if history repeats its self, there is no way ArenaNet can come back a second time from it.

How did you calculate his DPS? With math, or using a reliable meter? How reliable has the meterms proven to be, and what tests wereally performed to ensure accuracy?

Nemesis.8593:

Khristophoros.7194:

Nemesis.8593:

Khristophoros.7194:

It adds more damage than Death Perception.

Either way, the answer is to share your builds and explain how they work. Maybe your builds are better than the zerker builds.

RS 1 is a melee AoE spell and even with higher AS it still has lower overall DPS then DS 1 which is ranged.
Someone decided to add dhuumfire to an AoE spell and use it for single target… as a meleer… instead of having higher DPS at the safety of range.

Someone else said “it’s definitely worth it… with quickness i saw burns tick up to 3K”. That means people are going to waste the quickness buff on RS 1 burns, in a zerker build… instead of using it to buff their Lich Form, which can hit 17K each hit… and has lower AS then 1 sec.

In conclusion… people do less damage, and are in more danger which translates in lower DPS uptime… and they are already thinking that in fact they do more, which is the reason why they are defending the build.

Metabattle… right… by all means… the people that keep trolling me for trying to help them can go ahead and play ineffectively if that is their wish.

I think Dhuumfire adds more damage than Death Perception even for regular DS though.

But ok, if you’re saying glass cannon reaper isn’t good because it’s too squishy for melee, that’s a different discussion. Regarding that, there’s no reason to go full zerk reaper when you could go full valk.

Burning doesn’t scale with the stats obtained from the items… but DS1 does…
Compare +2K burns on RS1 with 16K hitting Lichform… there is no contest…

The two things can’t be compared. I actually don’t understand your point because you keep changing argument or comparing things you can’t. Lich form also isn’t a trait or auto its a cooldown.

From my understanding people are comparing the DPS increase from death perception to that from dhuumfire and have indeed correctly stated that as long as you take reaper and soul reaping it is the best DPS trait to take in that line because of decimate defences resulting in 100% crit chance in or our of shroud.

Also as long as you are outside of 600 range DS auto is worse than axe. You really have to be within 600units for it for do any damage at all.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Nemesis.8593:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

As for the one who came up with the build, hard to say. I played a part, spoj played a part, I think Bawb played a part, too.

It was part of the theory crafting that we were going through. On a shroud focused reaper (spite/soul reaping/reaper), the reaper is capable of stacking 25 vulnerability and 25 might by himself. This leads to a bit of an issue regarding the grandmaster trait in soul reaping. Decimate Defenses makes Deathly Perception obsolete. Foot in the grave, while being a very nice utility on its own, isn’t always necessary. The end choice was Dhuumfire.

At maximum might, a zerker reaper hits for about 248 per tick. Last time I did any calculations, a reaper’s onslaught boosted auto attack had about the same DPS as the greatsword auto attack… before factoring in Burning. I’ll do a quick check…

I just did a quick check. With onsalught, I’m getting a total attack chain time of 2.075. Round up or down as you see fit. With no gear equipped, this comes to a raw tooltip DPS of (235 + 235 + 469) about 438. The sword auto attack does 469 raw tooltip DPS (391 + 469 + 547 over 3 seconds), and the dagger does 473 raw tooltip DPS.

I call it “raw” because it doesn’t include anything else. No might/vuln/chill/life force generation. Just the basic numbers. From this, you can see that sword auto attack is roughly the same as the dagger auto attack, while also being about 7% higher than the Reaper Shroud auto attack. Now, we can acquire a few things from this. In particular, how much effective power you’ll need for Sword Auto to do more damage than Shroud Auto:

Each Shroud Auto chain stacks 3 × 3 / 2 stack of burning, coming to about 4.5 stacks sustained. This is 1,115 additional DPS. We can find the point where the 7.077% ,difference in direct damage between sword auto and shroud auto is equivalent to 1,115 DPS. First, we take the tooltip difference between greatsword auto and dagger auto (31), then divide 1,115 by it (to get 36). This is the scalar multiple that needs to be applied to direct damage. Direct damage scales linearly with power, so at 2000 power you’ll be doing twice the tooltip damage (in our case, 62 extra damage). So, since 1,115 is 36 times larger than 31, we will need 36,000 effective power.

Effective power here is your power after taking into account all multipliers. Sigils, rune bonuses, might, crit damage, vulnerability, group buffs, etc. To put it into scale, I’m not sure the necromancer can get higher than 20k effective power. Heck, I just did a quick calculation on my zerker necro, and without group buffs I’m maxing out at 14,178 effective power. Special note here, vulnerability affects the burn damage as well, so you can disregard it in the “how much power will I need” calculation for this particular case.

This means that, with reapers onslaught and dhuumfire, Shroud Auto Attack has higher DPS than the Greatsword and Dagger Auto Attacks. Now, is this the best DPS rotation? Good question. I never compared anything other than auto attacks. If there is a rotation that I don’t know about that does more damage, but neither involves nor can’t be improved upon by Reaper Dhuumfire, let me know. If I’ve made a mistake in my calculations, let me know.

EDIT: Side Note: gravedigger might need a buff. I just timed it, and I am getting 2.5 second total activation times. This puts it at exactly as much damage as auto attacking. This was only a quick check, though.

That is in theory my friend…

Using theory Spoj claimed 13.4K DPS on his dagger 1 build, without timewarp or minions… yet when i calculated his real DPS at the Arah Wraithlord fight (which is really really easy fight btw) he was around 7K.

Math… does not match… reality.

Anyway… i didn’t have high hopes for the expansion, but they actually manage to create something amazing… and now they are systematically destroying it with all these nerfs.

They just nerfed the entire Verdant Brink map… if they continue at this rate, the entire content will be finished in a month even by casual players… then the same players who cried “too hard OMG” will cry “OMG no end game, you suk ArenaNet” and then move on… just like last time.

I think this is it… if history repeats its self, there is no way ArenaNet can come back a second time from it.

How did you calculate his DPS? With math, or using a reliable meter? How reliable has the meterms proven to be, and what tests wereally performed to ensure accuracy?

He took an ancient video of mine where I had no ascended, suboptimal sigils/consumables and was only a quick recording of a casual run to demonstrate some big crits on dagger. It was also before ferocity nerf btw. So I’m not really sure how that counts as a credible counter arguement to a calculation I made a long time ago with maxed out buff assumptions and no dodging….

spoj.9672:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Nemesis.8593:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

As for the one who came up with the build, hard to say. I played a part, spoj played a part, I think Bawb played a part, too.

It was part of the theory crafting that we were going through. On a shroud focused reaper (spite/soul reaping/reaper), the reaper is capable of stacking 25 vulnerability and 25 might by himself. This leads to a bit of an issue regarding the grandmaster trait in soul reaping. Decimate Defenses makes Deathly Perception obsolete. Foot in the grave, while being a very nice utility on its own, isn’t always necessary. The end choice was Dhuumfire.

At maximum might, a zerker reaper hits for about 248 per tick. Last time I did any calculations, a reaper’s onslaught boosted auto attack had about the same DPS as the greatsword auto attack… before factoring in Burning. I’ll do a quick check…

I just did a quick check. With onsalught, I’m getting a total attack chain time of 2.075. Round up or down as you see fit. With no gear equipped, this comes to a raw tooltip DPS of (235 + 235 + 469) about 438. The sword auto attack does 469 raw tooltip DPS (391 + 469 + 547 over 3 seconds), and the dagger does 473 raw tooltip DPS.

I call it “raw” because it doesn’t include anything else. No might/vuln/chill/life force generation. Just the basic numbers. From this, you can see that sword auto attack is roughly the same as the dagger auto attack, while also being about 7% higher than the Reaper Shroud auto attack. Now, we can acquire a few things from this. In particular, how much effective power you’ll need for Sword Auto to do more damage than Shroud Auto:

Each Shroud Auto chain stacks 3 × 3 / 2 stack of burning, coming to about 4.5 stacks sustained. This is 1,115 additional DPS. We can find the point where the 7.077% ,difference in direct damage between sword auto and shroud auto is equivalent to 1,115 DPS. First, we take the tooltip difference between greatsword auto and dagger auto (31), then divide 1,115 by it (to get 36). This is the scalar multiple that needs to be applied to direct damage. Direct damage scales linearly with power, so at 2000 power you’ll be doing twice the tooltip damage (in our case, 62 extra damage). So, since 1,115 is 36 times larger than 31, we will need 36,000 effective power.

Effective power here is your power after taking into account all multipliers. Sigils, rune bonuses, might, crit damage, vulnerability, group buffs, etc. To put it into scale, I’m not sure the necromancer can get higher than 20k effective power. Heck, I just did a quick calculation on my zerker necro, and without group buffs I’m maxing out at 14,178 effective power. Special note here, vulnerability affects the burn damage as well, so you can disregard it in the “how much power will I need” calculation for this particular case.

This means that, with reapers onslaught and dhuumfire, Shroud Auto Attack has higher DPS than the Greatsword and Dagger Auto Attacks. Now, is this the best DPS rotation? Good question. I never compared anything other than auto attacks. If there is a rotation that I don’t know about that does more damage, but neither involves nor can’t be improved upon by Reaper Dhuumfire, let me know. If I’ve made a mistake in my calculations, let me know.

EDIT: Side Note: gravedigger might need a buff. I just timed it, and I am getting 2.5 second total activation times. This puts it at exactly as much damage as auto attacking. This was only a quick check, though.

That is in theory my friend…

Using theory Spoj claimed 13.4K DPS on his dagger 1 build, without timewarp or minions… yet when i calculated his real DPS at the Arah Wraithlord fight (which is really really easy fight btw) he was around 7K.

Math… does not match… reality.

Anyway… i didn’t have high hopes for the expansion, but they actually manage to create something amazing… and now they are systematically destroying it with all these nerfs.

They just nerfed the entire Verdant Brink map… if they continue at this rate, the entire content will be finished in a month even by casual players… then the same players who cried “too hard OMG” will cry “OMG no end game, you suk ArenaNet” and then move on… just like last time.

I think this is it… if history repeats its self, there is no way ArenaNet can come back a second time from it.

How did you calculate his DPS? With math, or using a reliable meter? How reliable has the meterms proven to be, and what tests wereally performed to ensure accuracy?

He took an ancient video of mine where I had no ascended, suboptimal sigils/consumables and was only a quick recording of a casual run to demonstrate some big crits on dagger. It was also before ferocity nerf btw. So I’m not really sure how that counts as a credible counter arguement to a calculation I made a long time ago with maxed out buff assumptions and no dodging….

I just wanted to confirm he used mathink after lambasting math. Calculating off of a video also sounds incredibly iffy, like eyeballing an amount of water poured by someone else into a barely marked glass and stating your eyeball is 100% accurate.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Nemesis.8593:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

As for the one who came up with the build, hard to say. I played a part, spoj played a part, I think Bawb played a part, too.

It was part of the theory crafting that we were going through. On a shroud focused reaper (spite/soul reaping/reaper), the reaper is capable of stacking 25 vulnerability and 25 might by himself. This leads to a bit of an issue regarding the grandmaster trait in soul reaping. Decimate Defenses makes Deathly Perception obsolete. Foot in the grave, while being a very nice utility on its own, isn’t always necessary. The end choice was Dhuumfire.

At maximum might, a zerker reaper hits for about 248 per tick. Last time I did any calculations, a reaper’s onslaught boosted auto attack had about the same DPS as the greatsword auto attack… before factoring in Burning. I’ll do a quick check…

I just did a quick check. With onsalught, I’m getting a total attack chain time of 2.075. Round up or down as you see fit. With no gear equipped, this comes to a raw tooltip DPS of (235 + 235 + 469) about 438. The sword auto attack does 469 raw tooltip DPS (391 + 469 + 547 over 3 seconds), and the dagger does 473 raw tooltip DPS.

I call it “raw” because it doesn’t include anything else. No might/vuln/chill/life force generation. Just the basic numbers. From this, you can see that sword auto attack is roughly the same as the dagger auto attack, while also being about 7% higher than the Reaper Shroud auto attack. Now, we can acquire a few things from this. In particular, how much effective power you’ll need for Sword Auto to do more damage than Shroud Auto:

Each Shroud Auto chain stacks 3 × 3 / 2 stack of burning, coming to about 4.5 stacks sustained. This is 1,115 additional DPS. We can find the point where the 7.077% ,difference in direct damage between sword auto and shroud auto is equivalent to 1,115 DPS. First, we take the tooltip difference between greatsword auto and dagger auto (31), then divide 1,115 by it (to get 36). This is the scalar multiple that needs to be applied to direct damage. Direct damage scales linearly with power, so at 2000 power you’ll be doing twice the tooltip damage (in our case, 62 extra damage). So, since 1,115 is 36 times larger than 31, we will need 36,000 effective power.

Effective power here is your power after taking into account all multipliers. Sigils, rune bonuses, might, crit damage, vulnerability, group buffs, etc. To put it into scale, I’m not sure the necromancer can get higher than 20k effective power. Heck, I just did a quick calculation on my zerker necro, and without group buffs I’m maxing out at 14,178 effective power. Special note here, vulnerability affects the burn damage as well, so you can disregard it in the “how much power will I need” calculation for this particular case.

This means that, with reapers onslaught and dhuumfire, Shroud Auto Attack has higher DPS than the Greatsword and Dagger Auto Attacks. Now, is this the best DPS rotation? Good question. I never compared anything other than auto attacks. If there is a rotation that I don’t know about that does more damage, but neither involves nor can’t be improved upon by Reaper Dhuumfire, let me know. If I’ve made a mistake in my calculations, let me know.

EDIT: Side Note: gravedigger might need a buff. I just timed it, and I am getting 2.5 second total activation times. This puts it at exactly as much damage as auto attacking. This was only a quick check, though.

That is in theory my friend…

Using theory Spoj claimed 13.4K DPS on his dagger 1 build, without timewarp or minions… yet when i calculated his real DPS at the Arah Wraithlord fight (which is really really easy fight btw) he was around 7K.

Math… does not match… reality.

Anyway… i didn’t have high hopes for the expansion, but they actually manage to create something amazing… and now they are systematically destroying it with all these nerfs.

They just nerfed the entire Verdant Brink map… if they continue at this rate, the entire content will be finished in a month even by casual players… then the same players who cried “too hard OMG” will cry “OMG no end game, you suk ArenaNet” and then move on… just like last time.

I think this is it… if history repeats its self, there is no way ArenaNet can come back a second time from it.

How did you calculate his DPS? With math, or using a reliable meter? How reliable has the meterms proven to be, and what tests wereally performed to ensure accuracy?

I manually added all the damage, divided by the duration of the fight starting from the first hit… ending with the last…

Yes… i’m just that crazy…

spoj.9672:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Nemesis.8593:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

As for the one who came up with the build, hard to say. I played a part, spoj played a part, I think Bawb played a part, too.

It was part of the theory crafting that we were going through. On a shroud focused reaper (spite/soul reaping/reaper), the reaper is capable of stacking 25 vulnerability and 25 might by himself. This leads to a bit of an issue regarding the grandmaster trait in soul reaping. Decimate Defenses makes Deathly Perception obsolete. Foot in the grave, while being a very nice utility on its own, isn’t always necessary. The end choice was Dhuumfire.

At maximum might, a zerker reaper hits for about 248 per tick. Last time I did any calculations, a reaper’s onslaught boosted auto attack had about the same DPS as the greatsword auto attack… before factoring in Burning. I’ll do a quick check…

I just did a quick check. With onsalught, I’m getting a total attack chain time of 2.075. Round up or down as you see fit. With no gear equipped, this comes to a raw tooltip DPS of (235 + 235 + 469) about 438. The sword auto attack does 469 raw tooltip DPS (391 + 469 + 547 over 3 seconds), and the dagger does 473 raw tooltip DPS.

I call it “raw” because it doesn’t include anything else. No might/vuln/chill/life force generation. Just the basic numbers. From this, you can see that sword auto attack is roughly the same as the dagger auto attack, while also being about 7% higher than the Reaper Shroud auto attack. Now, we can acquire a few things from this. In particular, how much effective power you’ll need for Sword Auto to do more damage than Shroud Auto:

Each Shroud Auto chain stacks 3 × 3 / 2 stack of burning, coming to about 4.5 stacks sustained. This is 1,115 additional DPS. We can find the point where the 7.077% ,difference in direct damage between sword auto and shroud auto is equivalent to 1,115 DPS. First, we take the tooltip difference between greatsword auto and dagger auto (31), then divide 1,115 by it (to get 36). This is the scalar multiple that needs to be applied to direct damage. Direct damage scales linearly with power, so at 2000 power you’ll be doing twice the tooltip damage (in our case, 62 extra damage). So, since 1,115 is 36 times larger than 31, we will need 36,000 effective power.

Effective power here is your power after taking into account all multipliers. Sigils, rune bonuses, might, crit damage, vulnerability, group buffs, etc. To put it into scale, I’m not sure the necromancer can get higher than 20k effective power. Heck, I just did a quick calculation on my zerker necro, and without group buffs I’m maxing out at 14,178 effective power. Special note here, vulnerability affects the burn damage as well, so you can disregard it in the “how much power will I need” calculation for this particular case.

This means that, with reapers onslaught and dhuumfire, Shroud Auto Attack has higher DPS than the Greatsword and Dagger Auto Attacks. Now, is this the best DPS rotation? Good question. I never compared anything other than auto attacks. If there is a rotation that I don’t know about that does more damage, but neither involves nor can’t be improved upon by Reaper Dhuumfire, let me know. If I’ve made a mistake in my calculations, let me know.

EDIT: Side Note: gravedigger might need a buff. I just timed it, and I am getting 2.5 second total activation times. This puts it at exactly as much damage as auto attacking. This was only a quick check, though.

That is in theory my friend…

Using theory Spoj claimed 13.4K DPS on his dagger 1 build, without timewarp or minions… yet when i calculated his real DPS at the Arah Wraithlord fight (which is really really easy fight btw) he was around 7K.

Math… does not match… reality.

Anyway… i didn’t have high hopes for the expansion, but they actually manage to create something amazing… and now they are systematically destroying it with all these nerfs.

They just nerfed the entire Verdant Brink map… if they continue at this rate, the entire content will be finished in a month even by casual players… then the same players who cried “too hard OMG” will cry “OMG no end game, you suk ArenaNet” and then move on… just like last time.

I think this is it… if history repeats its self, there is no way ArenaNet can come back a second time from it.

How did you calculate his DPS? With math, or using a reliable meter? How reliable has the meterms proven to be, and what tests wereally performed to ensure accuracy?

He took an ancient video of mine where I had no ascended, suboptimal sigils/consumables and was only a quick recording of a casual run to demonstrate some big crits on dagger. It was also before ferocity nerf btw. So I’m not really sure how that counts as a credible counter arguement to a calculation I made a long time ago with maxed out buff assumptions and no dodging….

At the time you claimed 13.4K DPS… you were hitting 6Ks, ascended or not… you claimed that, but did half in reality… and you blame it on “casual play” even though as you said, it was before the ferocity nerf, and as i saw it you only dodged once or twice in the entire fight, not to mention you recently said… and i quote “his DPS uptime and math is contagious… avoid watching his videos if you want to keep your mental health”… for no reason, you didn’t knew i would go after you for getting paid for my work and for lieing about your DPS, you just like to trash me in general… like you did for the last 2 years.

Just how casual do you have to be in a premade to have HALF the advertised damage… i did a fractal pug run and i was pushing 12-14K DPS at Bloomhunger…

Also the part with “suboptimal sigils/consumables”… as if i will believe that… you said multiple times the only build needed is the dagger 1 build in any and all encounters, which is far superior then anything i have.
So… you make your one build to rule them all… calculate it’s DPS at 13.4K… then for some reason drop that gear, take on bad gear… and make a “casual” run, which is so “casual” that you end up having half the advertised DPS… and upload it to YouTube, because… of course you would do that.

Right then… no problem… give me some recent footage of your plays… i will do the work and calculate your DPS, for free…

What do you say… are you going to prove your claimed DPS, or do you already know it was a lie all along, just so you get to say “my builds are superior to Nemesis” another 200 more times ?

Guys, come on. this is a thread about Dhummfire on a zerk build not a thread to call out dagger 1 spam dps vids.

Do you not see the hilarity of using a vagure reference of a quote and a completely unrelated video (they were at different times, the video was from over 2 years ago which was before i was doing calculations for dps) as evidence to discredit me as completely ridiculous?

You are one funny guy Nemesis.

By the way that video was partially just to show some big hits. But the main reason i even recorded and uploaded was just to test my recording and upload speed. And like i said before. You cant quote a number which i stated was calculated under optimal circumstances and compare it to a real fight with suboptimal circumstances.

If they were both optimal circumtances you might have a small point. But then id just say the calculation was done as a comparison against a dummy it has never been to declare actual real dps in a fight. I have never claimed vacuum dps values occur in real fights. Ive never seen anyone else claim that either. Some may have worded things poorly. But its on you for misunderstanding. And shame on you for nitpicking just to make a very weak point and stir up drama.

Nemesis.8593:

RS 1 is a melee AoE spell and even with higher AS it still has lower overall DPS then DS 1 which is ranged.
Someone decided to add dhuumfire to an AoE spell and use it for single target… as a meleer… instead of having higher DPS at the safety of range.

Can you show how did you come to that conclusion. Even just looking at pure coefficients, DS 1 has a c/s of at most 1.0, which is about the same as RS 1 even without Reaper’s Onslaught.

Then if you add in factors such as (as far as I know) DS still uses the weapon strength of your equipped weapon and RS’s faster attack rate procing more traits, RS blows it out of the water.

The only argument you can make is that DS is ranged, but that’s like saying thieves have higher DPS with a pistol because daggers are melee.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I just did a quick check. With onsalught, I’m getting a total attack chain time of 2.075. Round up or down as you see fit. With no gear equipped, this comes to a raw tooltip DPS of (235 + 235 + 469) about 438. The sword auto attack does 469 raw tooltip DPS (391 + 469 + 547 over 3 seconds), and the dagger does 473 raw tooltip DPS.

Did you pull the cast times from the wiki? Because the 2.5s stated is out of date on there. BWE 3 reduced the aftercast by 0.2s and the wiki hasn’t updated yet.

In other words, dagger/GS/RS w/ RO all have the same DPS.

spoj.9672:

Do you not see the hilarity of using a vagure reference of a quote and a completely unrelated video (they were at different times) as evidence to discredit me as completely ridiculous?

You are one funny guy Nemesis.

By the way that video was partially just to show some big hits. But the main reason i even recorded and uploaded was just to test my recording and upload speed. And like i said before. You cant quote a number which i stated was calculated under optimal circumstances and compare it to a real fight with suboptimal circumstances.

If they were both optimal circumtances you might have a small point. But then id just say the calculation was done as a comparison against a dummy it has never been to declare actual real dps in a fight. I have never claimed vacuum dps values occur in real fights. Ive never seen anyone else claim that either. Some may have worded things poorly. But its on you for misunderstanding. And shame on you for nitpicking just to make a very weak point and stir up drama.

Let’s forget the countless times you insulted me without provocation, with things like “no one should take him seriously”, “avoid watching his videos if you want to keep your mental health”, or the fact you got paid for my work…

I’ll keep this simple.

1. Did you… or did you not claim your builds are superior to mine ? Backing up your claims with math you showed the community ?

2. Give me your recent plays so i can add all the real DPS values, to see if it matches your advertised numbers… or did you already agreed to the fact that your advertised numbers do not reflect reality ? One must be sure… especially since Bawb said “no one was kicking necromancers”.
I have people emailing me saying they quit the game because of how much they got kicked as a necromancer, and seeing my recent videos brought “a tear to my eyes”.

So yeah… one must be 100% sure since people tend to change their opinion about what really happened more often then they change their socks.

I would also like to see how he came to that conclusion. Clearly our math is suffering.

I dont advertise calculated dps numbers as practical in real fights. How many times do I have to point that out? Ive been saying calculations dont match reality for over 2 years. So i dont know what you are trying to accuse me of. You are taking quotes out of context, making wild assumptions and putting words in my mouth.

And as i pointed out in the other thread. Even if dps values dont match reality. Then can still be used to compare dps differences. That was the basis for me saying dagger was better than DS. Dagger 1 provides significanlty better coefficient per second than DS 1. There are many variables which effect damage uptime. But its not hard to maintain good enough uptime to beat DS in a decent group. And DS doesnt even have that great uptime due to lifeforce management and certain encounters.

spoj.9672:

Clearly our math is suffering.

A lot more than just math is suffering in this exchange.

Adding up all the damage ticks in a video is a really awkward way to try to calculate, and I’m not even sure it would accurately identify condition damage. Without meters, it is an extraordinarily muddy science. Not nearly enough to try to pick fights on a forum.

And Dhuumfire on a zerker build is very justifiable.

Dont know what im doing. Stressed from hectic day at work. Come home. Frustrated at Nemesis. Good use of my time and a great day.