Guild Wars 2

They gonna be new top condition builds. Phantasm hybrid op.

WTB condition transfers.

Am I the only one who sees condition as boons on my necromancer? I can transfer them, it gives me bigger heal, and I can convert them. If mesmer new FOTM build is going to be condition, I say hell yes, more power to me!

I’ve only been having an issue with the condition mesmers that cloak every 3 seconds via deceptive evasion and constant vigor. that just overwhelm me with staff clones. They don’t kill me, but I can’t kill them either.

Yeah, that’s my only problem with them either, having to constantly re-target them It’s not that I have trouble finding the real one but those tiny 1-2 seconds of delay between them cloaking and me retargeting just about give them the edge. Also, it really annoys me when I cast my Deathly Swarm and they disappear midway through my cast so it hits nothing! :p

Deceptive evasion doesn’t cloak a mesmer, and they can’t cloak every 3 seconds.

I can… (thief)

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I’ve only been having an issue with the condition mesmers that cloak every 3 seconds via deceptive evasion and constant vigor. that just overwhelm me with staff clones. They don’t kill me, but I can’t kill them either.

Broad statements like this is why Mesmers are misunderstood.
Deceptive evasion only creates a clone on dodge. Is does NOT stealth you. You even see the real Mesmer roll away! We have a maximum of 4 stealths available to us: torch 4, Mass Invisibility, Veil, and Decoy. Decoy is by far the strongest of these, because it allows us to stealth while we have the “revealed” debuff (still waiting for that to get fixed).

The BlackWater Builds Focus on throwing as many clones out as possible for you to kill them, getting harmful conditions when they die. Stealth compliments this because unskilled players will kill the clones, which makes the build even stronger.

From what I can tell (I haven’t played it), this new roaming stealth phantasm build simply has the Mesmer staying stealthed as long as possible to let phantasms (not clones) do their damage.

Deleted the part about vigor! I was thinking of the major trait that gives vigor on shatters. My bad!

Everything the last guy said is correct. Except, mesmers DO have perma vigor. The line wherein deceptive evasion is in grants vigor for 5 secs with a 5 sec icd. It’s the minor trait 5 in duelist libe.

Dietzen.6127:

Everything the last guy said is correct. Except, mesmers DO have perma vigor. The line wherein deceptive evasion is in grants vigor for 5 secs with a 5 sec icd. It’s the minor trait 5 in duelist libe.

Yeah I was thinking this as well… how can you forget one of the best minors in the game….

You are correct, I should not have said “cloaking”. However, Deceptive Evasion DOES cause you to lose target on the dodging Mesmer, which means significant loss of attacking uptime outside of AoE’s. It takes valuable time to re-target the Mesmer, and tab-targeting doesn’t help (not that I would want it to, I do have a Mesmer myself, albeit only level 29).

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

You are correct, I should not have said “cloaking”. However, Deceptive Evasion DOES cause you to lose target on the dodging Mesmer, which means significant loss of attacking uptime outside of AoE’s. It takes valuable time to re-target the Mesmer, and tab-targeting doesn’t help (not that I would want it to, I do have a Mesmer myself, albeit only level 29).

No it doesn’t. It does not detarget, not for me anyways.

Dietzen.6127:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

You are correct, I should not have said “cloaking”. However, Deceptive Evasion DOES cause you to lose target on the dodging Mesmer, which means significant loss of attacking uptime outside of AoE’s. It takes valuable time to re-target the Mesmer, and tab-targeting doesn’t help (not that I would want it to, I do have a Mesmer myself, albeit only level 29).

No it doesn’t. It does not detarget, not for me anyways.

Are you the Mesmer? I always lose my target on the mesmer whenever Deceptive Evasion triggers.

I always have problems with PU mesmers conditions or power it always doesnt end well for me especially if they use staff

you will see more mesmers in wvw now since they hard counter the army of warriors

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Dietzen.6127:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

You are correct, I should not have said “cloaking”. However, Deceptive Evasion DOES cause you to lose target on the dodging Mesmer, which means significant loss of attacking uptime outside of AoE’s. It takes valuable time to re-target the Mesmer, and tab-targeting doesn’t help (not that I would want it to, I do have a Mesmer myself, albeit only level 29).

No it doesn’t. It does not detarget, not for me anyways.

Are you the Mesmer? I always lose my target on the mesmer whenever Deceptive Evasion triggers.

Fighting as and against, I don’t loose target on deceptive evasion. Not as far as I can remember.
And regarding fighting the hybrid mesmer, there’s one simple thing to do, if you do it the mesmer will die. Fast. Pump him full of condis. Easy and simple. As long as your cast has begun, their stealth won’t save em. They will have ONE condi clear max. I also play a very deadly hybrid mesmer and it really is deadly. But the thing I fear most, is a necro due to the amount of condis they can pump out and fear.

Dietzen.6127:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Dietzen.6127:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

You are correct, I should not have said “cloaking”. However, Deceptive Evasion DOES cause you to lose target on the dodging Mesmer, which means significant loss of attacking uptime outside of AoE’s. It takes valuable time to re-target the Mesmer, and tab-targeting doesn’t help (not that I would want it to, I do have a Mesmer myself, albeit only level 29).

No it doesn’t. It does not detarget, not for me anyways.

Are you the Mesmer? I always lose my target on the mesmer whenever Deceptive Evasion triggers.

Fighting as and against, I don’t loose target on deceptive evasion. Not as far as I can remember.
And regarding fighting the hybrid mesmer, there’s one simple thing to do, if you do it the mesmer will die. Fast. Pump him full of condis. Easy and simple. As long as your cast has begun, their stealth won’t save em. They will have ONE condi clear max. I also play a very deadly hybrid mesmer and it really is deadly. But the thing I fear most, is a necro due to the amount of condis they can pump out and fear.

Clone on dodge doesn’t cause a target drop.

Smart mesmers know exactly what you have said, and as a result will burst, stealth, burst, stealth, etc. As a necro, the advice to just pump them full of conditions presumes you can even find them to do that.

More likely, your best bet is to find some way to survive long enough for their stealth options to all go on cooldown, THEN you can easily dispatch them. Of course a really great mesmer is going to beat the snot out of you in the 20-30 seconds including burst time it takes for them to run out of misdirection and immunities and stealth.

Counter mobility is an excellent counter to mesmer, and we completely lack that. However conditions are a nearly impossible thing for them to deal with (even with null field) so it sort of balances out.

As to the OP… I don’t find hybrid mesmer difficult to deal with at all…. worst case scenario we can transfer conditions to a clone or phant, and their burst damage is too low after that to be a threat. Full zerker shatter and phant mesmers are far harder to deal with as we cannot avoid, but must mitigate the burst.

They can’t keep avoiding condis I’ve got no problem locking down mesmers. Then again, having played one extensively, I know exactly what to look for, when they are vulnerable etc. I know all their tricks

na, once you know how to track em it’s no biggy just drop signet of spite on em and try to catch em in a few fears ontop of everything else you can throw at em and it’s usually GG

iDuelist was fixed. Condi mesmer is still decent, but isn’t OP.

Marks Marks Marks. I play a Blackwater Mesmer variant and a Necro; the Mesmer will not have good up time on condi clearing usually, so your best best is to spread out marks or any other AE condition abilities constantly if you suck at retargetting and try to only eat a shatter while in DS.

Save your roots and snares for when you know their purge is on cool down.

I have a hybrid condition Mesmer but when it comes to Necro’s, I don’t even really try to stack the conditions because of all your anti-condi tricks. For the most part, I just try to drop my iZerker + illusions and then keep at max distance. I made the mistake once of underestimating your class and that resulted in a very quick defeat.

They do more damage and attack more conditions than a necro can

FrownyClown.8402:

They do more damage and attack more conditions than a necro can

No condition build out conditions a Necro when they are fighting against us.

I play with an xbox controller and thus have to use tab or auto target, its a kitten to target a mesmer so normally I just throw down as many AOEs as possible.

i’m just having a hard time putting conditions on the mesmer/warrior as a necro before they start stealthspamming/disablespamming while condition cleansing or giving it back to me; i’ve also only recently realized how IMMENSELY powerful a mesmer’s arcane thievery really is against a condi necro. ur 10 stacks of bleed/torment/whatever else just got put back on you and i stole whatever boons you managed to grant urself! (also really useful for taking stability off ur elites if ur not using flesh golem, or hell, take the uber long stability ur golem gets after u use his elite)

i started playing as a necro, and quickly switched to mes because of the usability and how fun the various builds are. imo, the lack of mobility/stealth/clones/reflects/stunbreakers a usual necro has compared to a typical mesmer is why i think a condition mesmer can really stick it to ya, or anybody for that matter with relative ease:
1. stealth
2. summon phantasm
3. come out of stealth iLeaping and frenzying or using sceptre conditions
4. dodge
5. switch weapons and repeat

@Spanny, the problem with any Mesmer vs any condition build, but especially Necros, is that conditions tend to stick to Mesmers way better.

You need to effectively land 2-3 nice loads of conditions onto us, then dodge the two transfers we have (which if they land are almost a guaranteed win for us, because your own conditions just popped the only 1-2 removals you have), and make sure you never get feared once your stun breaks are down.

You have no breathing room, really. One mistake and the fight is completely over.

What Bhawb said, (insofar as I am reading it correctly:) ) mesmers are very much vulnerable to conditions. Having played one extensively, there are so few options for a mesmer to cleanse conditions. Few as in, they can only clear a few condis at a time, and they can’t fully rid themselves of condis.

- Null field (40 sec CD)
- Mantra of resolve (2×2 condis cleared, 20 sec CD)
- Arcane thievery (transfer 3 condis, steal 3 boons, 45 sec CD)
- Phantasmal disenchanter (20 sec CD, unreliable though as you need to be hit by it’s bolt to have it clear condis from you)
and that’s it, unless I’m missing one.

But mesmers only carry one of em, due to needing both Decoy and blink (usually).
I carry mantra of resolve due to having 2x insta cast condi clears, which take off 2 condis each.
And as Bhawb said, mesmers can stack up some nice condis on you, but to have em all transfered back just means death for em, combine that with fear and it just becomes too much and they go down quickly

Oh and here’s a nice tip for ya’ll, well of power is awesome! “Yeah we know!!!”, but did you know you don’t have to stand in the well for it to tick off condis from you? :P Ally’s probably need to stand in the well for it to work, but you don’t!

deathly swarm, putrid mark, nuff said.

i dont really have a problem with condition mesmer because mostly they died from their own confusion
as for clones, ds4 always do the job and leaving a mesmer with 4 stacks of bleed is kinda hilarious you get to watch them crawl and die

the key on fighting such mesmer is don’t play their game. make them summon all their clones an wipe them with ds4 then throw the conditions at them. it should finish the job.

necro is still the king of condition class because no matter what mesmer and engineer can offer we still have more condition transfer than them

very helpful responses, i will definitely be using these strategies the next time i fight another condi class

I’m not saying a mesmer will fair well against necros its just that they have superior damage to them. I feel bad for rangers and elementalists

OP is trolling.

Troll.4237:

I play with an xbox controller and thus have to use tab or auto target, its a kitten to target a mesmer so normally I just throw down as many AOEs as possible.

Against a Condition Mesmer you are killing yourself for them. Many of their condition stacks come from killing their clones dieing. They want you to kill their clones while they hide in stealth.

Arcane thievery is powerful but not against necro…. If you’re a necro and you can’t manipulate condition properly then there’s something wrong…. very wrong.

Orikx.9671:

OP is trolling.

Troll.4237:

I play with an xbox controller and thus have to use tab or auto target, its a kitten to target a mesmer so normally I just throw down as many AOEs as possible.

Against a Condition Mesmer you are killing yourself for them. Many of their condition stacks come from killing their clones dieing. They want you to kill their clones while they hide in stealth.

pretty much this you can’t get away from them as well on a necro but my other classes i just walk away from them and their is nothing they can do about it as they chase you firing off slow staff auto attacks rofl. on my necro I have never had a problem with them. Epi the mesmer after a fear and spread to clones as they die. transfer back with staff when needed or heck just give all the condis to the clone if you can’t find the real mesmer.

I have ran that build on my mesmer before it can 1vX well as long as the people you are fighting don’t totally ignore you(which most people dont in wvw) and there isnt a tanky guardian there that wipes all the time and will take you 15 minutes to kill,

The only problem I ever have with mesmers, especially this type, is they can:

• endlessly spew out clones and phantasms, their cd’s might as well not even exist
• can get at an advantage point out of range of my attacks, and still able to cast clones/phantasms on me (yes they still have to move out enough to get los, but in places like the bloodlust areas there’s too many spots they can get up on and not be hit) and the second I move to get them down off of it they can just stealth and reset the fight no problem.
• Yes while i can flip their conditions and gain benefits, the actual process for us anyway, is so slow, that by the time we flip them or heal off of them/cleanse, they’ve already reapplied several stacks and are still vomiting out phantasms.

Clones i can understand them having on short cd’s, they are meant to be spewed endlessly for the purpose of misdirection, but the phantasms are the hard hitters and honestly, for pvp anyway, need to be on longer cd’s and now with them throwing the condis on top of it all, it becomes a little op. Can they still be dealt with? Absolutely. I kill them as much as they kill me. But their skill vs effort required is closely creeping into heal signet warrior realm. Best way i’ve found to deal with them is pretty much what oZii said, just walk away from them. If they’re capping something, just wait till they leave and re-cap it. I find it’s much easier to deal with them when they are forced to open a fight rather when they are already there waiting for you with a gameplan in mind.

They don’t like Signet of Spite at all. On top of your normal output, plus transfers its just massive condi overload.