Guild Wars 2

mordran.4750:

Bhawb.7408:

Death’s Charge – Needs to function like a targeted leap

Very bad idea. Coming from a WvW perspective i used that skill numerous times to escape or for general mobility, very useful, please not more targeted stuff.

I think you misunderstand, what bhawb means. It would be more like the guardian GS leap or the warrior sword leap. They dont need a target to work but if they have a target they stop at the target.

Arche.7326:

spoj.9672:

Scary how similar some of the suggestions are to the pastebin i wrote. I was probably a bit more generous with buffing stuff but then i was primarily looking at PvE balance and closely commenting on damage numbers.

I really like your second suggestion for greatsword auto-attack. Didnt consider that for the chill duration problem.

Could we get a link to that? I’m curious to see what numbers you came up with.

It was just feedback based on the numbers already posted.

I disagree with your suggested change to Chilling Nova. The usefulness of Chilling Nova + Chilling Victory + Blighter’s Boon is only fully prevalent when it can be used both inside and outside RS. Limiting it to just RS means that we’d have to invest elsewhere to get boon application outside of RS, limiting the potential self-sufficiency we could get from using RS.

Bhawb.7408:

“Chilled to the bone!”_ – Great shout if it lands, however with a 2 second cast time good luck landing it. I’d like to see the cast time lowered to 1 seconds, like Supply Crate, and at least look at its CD. I’m not sure if 120s is warranted, but it is hard to know while it is still so difficult to use because of the 2s cast.

Tempest’s shout Flash-Freeze(AoE chill) has 0.25 sec cast time

Very good read.

My opinion on some topics:

Reaper Shroud

• Not much to add.
• I loved playing it.

Greatsword

• I’d rather see more Chill added in other places than on an AA.
• I feel that some damage coefficients could be increased.
• GS#2 and 3 could really need a slightly larger range.

Shouts
While I like your suggestions I’d like to see a slightly different approach for some shouts.

“Your soul is mine!”

• Not too exciting but fine.
• Could use a slightly higher baseline heal.
• Should indeed at some LF baseline.

“You are all weaklings!”

• Does too much at once.
• Remove stunbreak
• Slightly increase Might stacks
• Add Fury
• Slightly decrease cooldown
• Make Boon duration stack based on enemies hit (see “Nothing can save you!”)
• Normalizes it’s effectiveness with certain traits (Blighters Boon)

“Suffer!”

• Make it transfer 2 Conditions
• Casts a 1s ice field
• Ice field lasts one additional second per hit foe (e.g. at least 2s duration)
• More ways to combo (Reaper Shroud, GS)

“Rise!”

• Stunbreak
• Heals up to 5 downed nearby allies by x%
• Reduce cooldown to at least 30s.
• Jagged Horrors serve as body blockers no matter what build you’re using.

Traits

“Chilling Nova*

• Don’t see why one wouldn’t like it.
• Easiest way to maintain Chills while in Reapers Shroud.
• No reason to make it on-entry/exit.

“Shivers of Dread”

• Indeed not enough sources of Fear to make it worthwhile.
• Add: 2s of chill in 180-240 radius when entering Reapers Shroud.

punahou.3986:

CHILL
the reapers…… forte?
Give Shroud Knight immuntiy to the current chill nerf. This skill should be unique for the reaper as it as advertised, and as such, current chill mechanics should be negated for the class.

I just wanted to point this out. Its a cool idea, but the problem is having players adapt how they use something basic like leaps against a single opponent. I think that is too much for the kind of game GW2 is aiming for, it is similar to why Hexes weren’t bueno to bring over as a full system.

spoj.9672:

Scary how similar some of the suggestions are to the pastebin i wrote. I was probably a bit more generous with buffing stuff but then i was primarily looking at PvE balance and closely commenting on damage numbers.

Yeah, I think there is definitely room to say damage needs to be increased, but I didn’t have the actual coefficients or anything like that which makes it hard to say for sure. One thing I’m noticing is RS auto might need some bumps, while it does nice damage for me I was using a build built around RS completely. And then general coefficient changes across the other greatsword/shout/shroud skills in order to bump up our DPS without overloading it all onto the Auto, especially for PvE.

Rym.1469:

1. Reaper Onslaught instead of resetting the cooldown of #2 RS on kill (which is imo…intriguing. Shouldn’t the #5 RS get reduced cooldown instead? I mean…it’s executioner…uh) could make RS #2 apply Chill to foes it passes through or something. Make it a skillshot if it has to go in straight line.

2. Shivers of the Dread…Uh, the second minor. Instead of proccing only on Fear, it could proc on all hard CCs Or on fears and Interruptions.

Yeah, Drarnor had mentioned some interesting ideas about having it reset all the skills by a certain amount, something like Katarina’s passive. Basically when you kill a target, have it reduce the CDs of all the Reaper Shroud skills by 5+ seconds (so it always resets 2). I think full resets on a lot of them would be too much, but smaller refunds would be a cool addition, and have synergy with things like Transfusion.

Yeah, having it proc on other hard CCs is nice, the only problem is most of those would already have chill, so it wouldn’t be very noticeable, just additional chill.

Sigmoid.7082:

@Bhawb
What shape would the auto field be? Circular or rectangular?
Though I believe the field should last 2s and provide 3/4-1s of chill per second. Would allow permanent chill with enough duration. I also say the coeff should be around 0.6 or 0.7 per hit. In total the ability #1.3 would do a total of 2.3-2.5 or around a full dagger chain relatively. Same as guard hammer does. Also a 5 target cap on the field.

The field would be the same size as the Guard symbol, so a circle around the impact. I do think there is room to change numbers on the AA as well, I didn’t have coefficients to work with, but I think it should definitely have comparable damage to Guard Hammer.

Nyth.3492:

My biggest issue with the AA is the speed. Maybe it’s just having to get used to it or something, but between dodging, using skills and people simply stepping out of range; I hardly feel like I ever get to the heavily backloaded part of the GS AA.

I think if it is sufficiently rewarding, as I believe an ice field would be, the attack speed wouldn’t be as big of an issue. I don’t think both could exist, if you lower the AS any, you can’t have it be such a strong effect at the end. I’m just trying to stick with their theme of being slow, but making sure that slow speed actually works by smashing people if they let it work.

mordran.4750:

A lot of Dmg ? Compared to Life Blasts the Dmg is really low, if you take into account that i have to be in melee range, balance between risk vs reward is not given.

It gives pretty high cleaving damage that stacks both might and vulnerability far better than Life Blast could ever hope to. However, as many others have mentioned I might have been biased because of my build being focused on RS, so if its damage does need a bit of buffing I’m on board.

punahou.3986:

CHILL
the reapers…… forte?
Give Shroud Knight immuntiy to the current chill nerf. This skill should be unique for the reaper as it as advertised, and as such, current chill mechanics should be negated for the class.

I just wanted to point this out. Its a cool idea, but the problem is having players adapt how they use something basic like leaps against a single opponent. I think that is too much for the kind of game GW2 is aiming for, it is similar to why Hexes weren’t bueno to bring over as a full system.

spoj.9672:

Scary how similar some of the suggestions are to the pastebin i wrote. I was probably a bit more generous with buffing stuff but then i was primarily looking at PvE balance and closely commenting on damage numbers.

Yeah, I think there is definitely room to say damage needs to be increased, but I didn’t have the actual coefficients or anything like that which makes it hard to say for sure. One thing I’m noticing is RS auto might need some bumps, while it does nice damage for me I was using a build built around RS completely. And then general coefficient changes across the other greatsword/shout/shroud skills in order to bump up our DPS without overloading it all onto the Auto, especially for PvE.

Rym.1469:

1. Reaper Onslaught instead of resetting the cooldown of #2 RS on kill (which is imo…intriguing. Shouldn’t the #5 RS get reduced cooldown instead? I mean…it’s executioner…uh) could make RS #2 apply Chill to foes it passes through or something. Make it a skillshot if it has to go in straight line.

2. Shivers of the Dread…Uh, the second minor. Instead of proccing only on Fear, it could proc on all hard CCs Or on fears and Interruptions.

Yeah, Drarnor had mentioned some interesting ideas about having it reset all the skills by a certain amount, something like Katarina’s passive. Basically when you kill a target, have it reduce the CDs of all the Reaper Shroud skills by 5+ seconds (so it always resets 2). I think full resets on a lot of them would be too much, but smaller refunds would be a cool addition, and have synergy with things like Transfusion.

Yeah, having it proc on other hard CCs is nice, the only problem is most of those would already have chill, so it wouldn’t be very noticeable, just additional chill.

Sigmoid.7082:

@Bhawb
What shape would the auto field be? Circular or rectangular?
Though I believe the field should last 2s and provide 3/4-1s of chill per second. Would allow permanent chill with enough duration. I also say the coeff should be around 0.6 or 0.7 per hit. In total the ability #1.3 would do a total of 2.3-2.5 or around a full dagger chain relatively. Same as guard hammer does. Also a 5 target cap on the field.

The field would be the same size as the Guard symbol, so a circle around the impact. I do think there is room to change numbers on the AA as well, I didn’t have coefficients to work with, but I think it should definitely have comparable damage to Guard Hammer.

Nyth.3492:

My biggest issue with the AA is the speed. Maybe it’s just having to get used to it or something, but between dodging, using skills and people simply stepping out of range; I hardly feel like I ever get to the heavily backloaded part of the GS AA.

I think if it is sufficiently rewarding, as I believe an ice field would be, the attack speed wouldn’t be as big of an issue. I don’t think both could exist, if you lower the AS any, you can’t have it be such a strong effect at the end. I’m just trying to stick with their theme of being slow, but making sure that slow speed actually works by smashing people if they let it work.

mordran.4750:

A lot of Dmg ? Compared to Life Blasts the Dmg is really low, if you take into account that i have to be in melee range, balance between risk vs reward is not given.

It gives pretty high cleaving damage that stacks both might and vulnerability far better than Life Blast could ever hope to. However, as many others have mentioned I might have been biased because of my build being focused on RS, so if its damage does need a bit of buffing I’m on board.

Cecilia.5179:

I disagree with your suggested change to Chilling Nova. The usefulness of Chilling Nova + Chilling Victory + Blighter’s Boon is only fully prevalent when it can be used both inside and outside RS. Limiting it to just RS means that we’d have to invest elsewhere to get boon application outside of RS, limiting the potential self-sufficiency we could get from using RS.

Its only one suggestion, the other is simply dropping the CD.

Dakunaito.9602:

Tempest’s shout Flash-Freeze(AoE chill) has 0.25 sec cast time

So? Chilled to the bone is a 2s stun, the chill is nice but more of an after-effect, the primary thing is that it causes a massive AoE stun that can lock down an entire team, while giving you tons of stability to follow up on that stun with damage that enemies can’t really stop you from doing because they are chilled and can’t CC you. Only problem with it now is cast time, anything lower than 1s doesn’t give appropriate counterplay, and then whether or not the CD is appropriate.

Xaylin.1860:

“Shivers of Dread”

• Indeed not enough sources of Fear to make it worthwhile.
• Add: 2s of chill in 180-240 radius when entering Reapers Shroud.

This is a cool idea, and covers the thing Chilling Nova would be if tied to shroud, so it could be left as is, with a lower CD.

Also, thanks for the feedback everyone. I’m reading through every post and making additions to the main topic when I see good ideas.

Great post summing up much of my thoughts for reaper.

On greatsword I think the AA needs an increase in the overall damage/DPS To match the other classes great swords. GS 3 could also do with a general Damage increase.

I really don’t get people asking for the GS to do slightly less damage than the Dagger .. because we complain that Dagger is behind other classes in DPS. We really should be shooting for the GS to be getting us more to the level of other classes not on a par with our already Lower than every one else DPS weapon. It’s not a Support weapon, defensive or condition based.. so that leaves DPS so lets get DPS with it closer to the other classes DPS. We also need more Life force generation on the weapon, but then that’s just common sense if Anet want us to use our ‘class’ mechanic.

RS I just love. Maybe the AA could do with a slight damage increase again just to bring our Base AA’s in line with other classes. RS 2 fully agree should work like warriors sword 2. Other attacks just work really nicely and I’m finding it hard to choose between Death perception and Dhuumfire. Getting stacks on 1k burning with Dhuum is great fun, and really makes me think about getting a couple of sinister items for my reaper.

I’d like to see Soul eater changed as the lifesteal seems really lacklustre even with multiple hits on the sword abilities. Either a damage boost or cool down reduction. Failing that have repear’s onslaught also affect the GS as currently even working it’s not a great use.

On Yaaw i’d definitely like to see the Might duration upped to match those of other classes. People won’t be happy if we wipe out longer lasting version of might, so this limits it’s use

Oh and fix utilities not being usable in shrouds… why oh why are we the only class that has a mechanic that brutally locks us out of 4 of our skills while being used?

Narenek.9085:

I really don’t get people asking for the GS to do slightly less damage than the Dagger .. because we complain that Dagger is behind other classes in DPS. We really should be shooting for the GS to be getting us more to the level of other classes not on a par with our already Lower than every one else DPS weapon. It’s not a Support weapon, defensive or condition based.. so that leaves DPS so lets get DPS with it closer to the other classes DPS. We also need more Life force generation on the weapon, but then that’s just common sense if Anet want us to use our ‘class’ mechanic.

While I understand the sentiment, Greatsword’s AA isn’t the place to bring us up DPS wise. The biggest way to do that is damage modifiers, which I’ve edited to mention, as well as things like Gravedigger having a much higher actual damage so that when spammed it exceeds dagger AA, and general increases on damage on GS 3/4, and other skills like that.

Also yeah, I’ve started mentioning general need for damage increases on some skills. Without coefficients its hard to name specifics, hopefully one of the PvE guys got those, I think spoj/Rising Dusk did, because I think it could be increased.

Narenek.9085:

RS I just love. Maybe the AA could do with a slight damage increase again just to bring our Base AA’s in line with other classes.

with valkyrie amulet you can hit for 5k last AA from RS I dont think its too low

I still don’t understand why Reaper shouts have any cast time whatsoever. Warrior shouts have zero cast time and Guardian shouts have zero cast time.

Even Tempest has 2 shouts with zero cast time(one of which is their stunbreak), 2 shouts with 1/4 second cast time, an elite shout with 3/4 second cast time(60 second CD), and an heal shout with 1.5 second cast time. Plus these shouts actually give some defenses when used with a frost aura(-10% damage) and Magnetic Aura(5 seconds). Most of these on shorter CD’s than Reaper shouts.

Then ya got the Reaper. Weaklings, Save you, and Your soul sitting at 3/4 second. Suffer and Rise sitting at 1 second. Chilled to the Bone, 2 seconds with 120 second CD. All of this with, in general, longer CD’s

Kaiser.9873:

I still don’t understand why Reaper shouts have any cast time whatsoever. Warrior shouts have zero cast time and Guardian shouts have zero cast time.

Even Tempest has 2 shouts with zero cast time(one of which is their stunbreak), 2 shouts with 1/4 second cast time, an elite shout with 3/4 second cast time(60 second CD), and an heal shout with 1.5 second cast time. Plus these shouts actually give some defenses when used with a frost aura(-10% damage) and Magnetic Aura(5 seconds).

Then ya got the Reaper. Weaklings, Save you, and Your soul sitting at 3/4 second. Suffer and Rise sitting at 1 second. Chilled to the Bone, 2 seconds with 120 second CD.

While I think they are excessive, our heal and elite definitely need cast times (1s elite, heal is fine at 3/4s). But yes, Suffer and Rise are definitely in need of heavy work, not just cast times, and the other 2 shouts should probably just be 1/2s casts. I don’t like having instant cast offensive skills, it breaks the whole point of the game for me where you are supposed to be able to counterplay things, but a lot of our shouts aren’t directly very offensive, but lend offensive buffs to the following skills, meaning those skills should contain the counterplay, not the shout itself.

Bhawb.7408:

Narenek.9085:

I really don’t get people asking for the GS to do slightly less damage than the Dagger .. because we complain that Dagger is behind other classes in DPS. We really should be shooting for the GS to be getting us more to the level of other classes not on a par with our already Lower than every one else DPS weapon. It’s not a Support weapon, defensive or condition based.. so that leaves DPS so lets get DPS with it closer to the other classes DPS. We also need more Life force generation on the weapon, but then that’s just common sense if Anet want us to use our ‘class’ mechanic.

While I understand the sentiment, Greatsword’s AA isn’t the place to bring us up DPS wise. The biggest way to do that is damage modifiers, which I’ve edited to mention, as well as things like Gravedigger having a much higher actual damage so that when spammed it exceeds dagger AA, and general increases on damage on GS 3/4, and other skills like that.

Also yeah, I’ve started mentioning general need for damage increases on some skills. Without coefficients its hard to name specifics, hopefully one of the PvE guys got those, I think spoj/Rising Dusk did, because I think it could be increased.

Yeah I could have written that a bit more clearly. I meant GS as a whole should be higher than Dagger so it’s how we get our damage on par with other classes. I’d be happy with the AA being in the same region as Guardian overall…. just don’t want it being the B’stard grand child of the Greatswords.

My Comments

Greatsword – The Greatsword just seems to slow to be useful. Also, running full berserker and strength runes, the damage doesn’t seem all that great either. I seem to get higher DPS on my Guardian Greatsword and Hammer and they are functionally much better weapons.

I ran some PvP with the GS and had an incredibly difficult time. It seems objectively worse in every way than Guardian hammer – it may have the same attack speed, but at least with Guardian I have Judges Intervention so I can pre-cast my hammer attacks and leap into the fray.

I switched to my standard Necro power build and proceeded to dominate the next round.

I can’t see myself using this weapon unless there are some real improvements to usability.

Death’s Charge – pretty horrible in its current iteration – I’m constantly overshooting my targets.

The heal shout – it’s just bad.

Shouts in general – None of the shouts are decent enough to win a spot on my utility bar.

Reaper Shroud – just seems buggy… Lifeforce seems to deplete at an alarming rate even when out of combat.

There are a heap of improvements to be made here.

I can’t see a Reaper standing toe to toe with Guardians and Warriors in frontline WvW – the survivability is just not there and that leaves them in an awkward spot.

Amityel.5324:

Narenek.9085:

RS I just love. Maybe the AA could do with a slight damage increase again just to bring our Base AA’s in line with other classes.

with valkyrie amulet you can hit for 5k last AA from RS I dont think its too low

5k is low as hell. Dagger auto 3rd chain does 9-10k while being faster as well.

Bhawb.7408:

Kaiser.9873:

I still don’t understand why Reaper shouts have any cast time whatsoever. Warrior shouts have zero cast time and Guardian shouts have zero cast time.

Even Tempest has 2 shouts with zero cast time(one of which is their stunbreak), 2 shouts with 1/4 second cast time, an elite shout with 3/4 second cast time(60 second CD), and an heal shout with 1.5 second cast time. Plus these shouts actually give some defenses when used with a frost aura(-10% damage) and Magnetic Aura(5 seconds).

Then ya got the Reaper. Weaklings, Save you, and Your soul sitting at 3/4 second. Suffer and Rise sitting at 1 second. Chilled to the Bone, 2 seconds with 120 second CD.

While I think they are excessive, our heal and elite definitely need cast times (1s elite, heal is fine at 3/4s). But yes, Suffer and Rise are definitely in need of heavy work, not just cast times, and the other 2 shouts should probably just be 1/2s casts. I don’t like having instant cast offensive skills, it breaks the whole point of the game for me where you are supposed to be able to counterplay things, but a lot of our shouts aren’t directly very offensive, but lend offensive buffs to the following skills, meaning those skills should contain the counterplay, not the shout itself.

I’ve been thinking…What if our shouts were split in 2 parts?

First could be instant and apply first effect, second would be not and apply second effect.

i.e. CHttB instant Chill and Stability, but 1s cast on stun.

It’s tricky, but possible I believe. This way individual parts could’ve been a little stronger or have different Cooldowns, similar to Turret Overcharge i.e. again ChttB, Chill part with 60s CD, but stun part with 90s CD.

Just a random thought. It could’ve been interesting spin on whole Shout mechanic for the Reaper.

I think that “Rise!” should stay as jagged minions, but have a death nova effect and the first thing the horrors do is place a 2s taunt on whomever was affected.

My take on all of this:
Overall I mostly agree with all your suggestions. However, I would increase damage in RS1 and 2. I also think it would be nice to have RS2 work more like War’s GS3 than a targeted leap.

About GS, I absolutely love your idea of adding an ice field to the end of AA. THIS MUST HAPPEN!!! However, despite that, both GS1 and 2 should hit much harder. Anyway, GS still has a mediocre LF generation. One possible solution would be to make AA give LF (1% per target hit with third attack of auto?). It would still be worse than dagger since the attacks are so slow, but i think it would work. Another issue is the absence of reliable gap closers (it is very different -and better- to close a gap by rushing to a target than pulling that target to you), so I think that at least GS5 should be able to be ground-targeted and aimed like war GS3.

About the shouts I fully agree with you. Cast times should be lower and CD on CttB should be 80-100s imo. YSiM should have a base healing at least the size of WoB, I believe. And just a note about the VO. It doesn’t seem very frightful. Should be a darker, more reapish, tone.

About the traits, I would buff Augury of Death a bit more than you (making it baseline 20% with +3% per target). Chilling Victory I would buff it a little, either by increasing the might duration for, say, 10s or decreasing the CD per target too 0,5s.

I had the feeling that RS was consuming more LF per sec than DS (even with VP) and/or not mitigating damage as DS does. Did you find this too?
Finally, would you find it too op if we got both DS and RS? Or if we got a breakbar on the shrouds and resistance instead of stability in RS3?

Aktium.9506:

5k is low as hell. Dagger auto 3rd chain does 9-10k while being faster as well.

5k last hit from AA is too low? I didnt see 9k last hit from dagger AA even when using everything for zerker in pvp tbh

Rym.1469:

First could be instant and apply first effect, second would be not and apply second effect.

Not disagreeing that it could be a cool idea, but it is worth noting that depending on how it works, if they have any instant effect and then an interruptable cast time, they would go on full CD whenever they are interrupted. So it would have to be two skills, like you mention with engi.

I think it could be interesting though, only issue would be making sure Soldier/Trooper runes weren’t insane with double proccing if they were two skills, but it is still a fun idea they could explore.

I still dont get why our elite shout has such a long cd and 2s cast time it should be on 60s cd baseline with 1/2 second cast time…..or 3/4s cast time look at rangers elite root and look at guardian elite shout 24s cd 5s quickness something smells here

Amityel.5324:

Aktium.9506:

5k is low as hell. Dagger auto 3rd chain does 9-10k while being faster as well.

5k last hit from AA is too low? I didnt see 9k last hit from dagger AA even when using everything for zerker in pvp tbh

You never did specify which mode. 5k is pretty decent in PvP, about the same as Life Blast on another zerker assuming PvP stats.

Aktium.9506:

Amityel.5324:

Aktium.9506:

5k is low as hell. Dagger auto 3rd chain does 9-10k while being faster as well.

5k last hit from AA is too low? I didnt see 9k last hit from dagger AA even when using everything for zerker in pvp tbh

You never did specify which mode. 5k is pretty decent in PvP, about the same as Life Blast on another zerker assuming PvP stats.

yup sorry I play only spvp so I meant in spvp last hit from AA was for 5500 and number 5 from RS was hitting for 9k

Amityel.5324:

Aktium.9506:

You never did specify which mode. 5k is pretty decent in PvP, about the same as Life Blast on another zerker assuming PvP stats.

yup sorry I play only spvp so I meant in spvp last hit from AA was for 5500 and number 5 from RS was hitting for 9k

There is no need to argue, dagger is stronger in any game mode because

• higher damage coefficient
• faster so less easy to avoid.

5k is a very decent amount, but not if you take 3s to give it and that at the end it is avoided 90% of the time. It is a fact, GS is too slow for the damage it gives or does not hit hard enough for its speed. At least one has to be fixed, else dagger will be always better.

RS 5 is different because it is also a strong chill + stun.

flow.6043:

Bhawb.7408:

Reaper Shroud is proccing weapon swap, which is GREAT, please apply this to normal Death Shroud.

Do you really think this is great?

You would create conflicting icds if you are running 2 of the same swap sigils on each weapon set, which is actually quite common for a lot of necro builds, including the current “meta” cele signets with 2x Geomancy.

It is absolitely fantastic.

1 line of sigil change on metabattle.com and 1 week of l2p issues and problems would be gone.

Its a flat buff with more flexibility, there is no math way its worse. You do need to count it a bit better but it opens up a lot more new combos than it closes old ones.
Only thing is the healing sigils dont work in entry of DS, but that should be a fix not obstacle for a feature.

Zefrost.3425:

I personally hate the weapon swap proc for RS. I’ve developed this technique when under focus fire from 2 or more players where, depending on circumstances, I leave shroud, weapon swap to staff (I frequently enter shroud not wielding staff; I know, strange considering the power buff) to trigger hydromancy to remove any blinds and then fear instantly so that I have a hope of using my heal skill at like 1k HP to survive for even longer on node.

It works very often.
It wouldn’t work if my hydromancy was on cooldown and I couldn’t get my fear off, though.

To sweet talk a bit, i think a decent player as you would get the new combo in pretty fast in fact, your use would stay same

A) only 1 hydromancy on staff set – it would proc normaly and be the blind clear
B) hydromancy on both sets – youd need to trigger the hydro proc with the exit of DS.

Considering you have weapon swap available, 10s must have passed, so the hydro proc that you used when swapping into dagger will surely be available

Silverkey.2078:

5k is a very decent amount, but not if you take 3s to give it and that at the end it is avoided 90% of the time. It is a fact, GS is too slow for the damage it gives or does not hit hard enough for its speed. At least one has to be fixed, else dagger will be always better.

RS 5 is different because it is also a strong chill + stun.

both have to be tweaked, not just 1. dmg is weak and attack speed is slow. 1.25sec cast time on Gravedigger? is this a joke? and dmg has to be increased too

who the hell is gonna get hit by RS 5? with 2sec cast time it’s easily countered or simply evaded(leap or dodge)

So thinking about it, chillblains on GS 1 as 8s may be a bit much, maybe a lesser version of it but still considered a mark.

Love your suggestions Bhawb. Really hope reaper gets some coefficient damage love with some of this stuff too. Seems kinda wrong that I get less utility (losing Blood Magic) and am forced into Melee, and I don’t get much if any damage to compensate (pretty sure when someone runs the numbers it’ll be less than the curses Dagger build).

Especially like the GS auto suggestion with field damage. I like guardian’s hammer auto, I like your suggestion and spin on it. And you’re spot on with gravedigger comments. More damage/faster animation, longer cooldown to compensate and with the artificially lower cooldown you could match the timer of an auto rotation preventing that superior spam from being too much burst potential, but still having good output and less clunky.

One thing on Nightfall, am I the only one that felt it was a bit odd there didn’t seem to be any initial effect? Or am I wrong on that?

Death Spiral (RS2) leap mechanics would work, I still wish it was just a copy of warrior’s whirlwind attack or FGS’s version with the evade + manual targeting.

Dakunaito.9602:

both have to be tweaked, not just 1. dmg is weak and attack speed is slow. 1.25sec cast time on Gravedigger? is this a joke? and dmg has to be increased too

1.25s cast time is absolutely fine, see RS 5

Dakunaito.9602:

who the hell is gonna get hit by RS 5? with 2sec cast time it’s easily countered or simply evaded(leap or dodge)

I killed a lot of people with it, people who were watching my stream can attest to this. Its only a 1.25s cast, the only issue now is you can get the full cast off on someone really close, yet have it miss due to a tiny sidestep they did on accident. My suggestion fixes this without getting rid of its counterplay, but as long as it isn’t ridiculous to hit it is an amazing skill and needs that cast time.

Samhayn.2385:

So thinking about it, chillblains on GS 1 as 8s may be a bit much, maybe a lesser version of it but still considered a mark.

Don’t see a reason to make it a mark honestly, I’d much rather see it function similar to the guardian symbol but without any skill-type attachment that would force it to have a weak base. Just an ice field with small pulsing damage and chill is good enough.

Jerus.4350:

Love your suggestions Bhawb. Really hope reaper gets some coefficient damage love with some of this stuff too.

Yeah I ended up mentioning coefficients because a lot of people brought up that its too low, and after looking over other people’s DPS comparisons we definitely need some coefficient increases.

Jerus.4350:

One thing on Nightfall, am I the only one that felt it was a bit odd there didn’t seem to be any initial effect? Or am I wrong on that?

Honestly don’t remember, usually pulsing effects pulse once immediately and then every interval, but it might not.

Jerus.4350:

Death Spiral (RS2) leap mechanics would work, I still wish it was just a copy of warrior’s whirlwind attack or FGS’s version with the evade + manual targeting.

The difference to me is intent in using the skill. FGS/whirlwind aren’t used primarily as gap closers, they are used as general mobility, damage, and defense. The skill sets they come with don’t need a reliable gap closer on those skills because they have another one (warrior GS) or are ranged (FGS). However, RS2 is needed for gap closing, it is less like Warrior GS whirlwind and more like Warrior sword leap.

Thanks Bhawb for your excellent work on reaper.
Like everyone I agree on pretty much everything you wrote. As a mostly PvE player I think I can easely find why I do not see everything the same way as you do, but it is quite interesting to see that no matter the Game mode all of us (necro lover) have the same feeling about the reaper.

Bhawb.7408:

Death’s Charge – Needs to function like a targeted leap so that it can stop early and more properly chase people. As it is now you will almost always miss with it, and I have kited myself even more than enemies have due to how impossible it is to aim. The only skills that function like it does currently have evades tied to them, but this needs to function like a normal leap for sticking to targets better.

As few others I do not agree we you on this point. I really enjoy this spell as it is for several reasons. 1) It allow me to jump like a rabbit. Honnestly with the right trait you perma jump in PvE wich give you a lot of mobility and allow you to leave ennemies AoE easely. But if it stop at the first target it touch it lose what make it so interesting to me. 2) It brings “positionning” in the game, at least in PvE (hard to PvP without basic knowledge of positionning i agree). I must confess I may have jump over a cliff several times but this spell remember me of Engi jump wich I enjoy (and may have get me jump over a cliff either…).
But I have to admit in it current state this spell must be a pain in the … in sPvP. On an other hand, it give a good mobility. As someone said I think the make it a skillshot like warrior GS 3 is a good way to change it. This way it become more easy to handle in PvP and don’t lose the “evade” part that is really enjoyable in PvE and WvW.

Bhawb.7408:

Gravedigger – A strong damage skill in theory, the windup is equivalent to Executioner’s Strike, but the reward for hitting the skill is severely lacking comparatively. Also, the reset brings it to 1s CD, a really awkward timing. Essentially, even if you get the reset you can’t just cast it again, yet casting just about anything else also takes too long, so it doesn’t flow well. Just a full reset would work much nicer, allowing for “spam” in the rare situation it would be usable, and at least in PvE allowing for high DPS under 50%. This might require a longer base CD which I’d rather have, as it is extremely unlikely you’ll want to use it every 5s anyway.

Also, while it lists similar damage to ES (RS5) in theory, one major problem is ES can be combined with Death Perception for nearly guaranteed crits against vulnerable targets, while Gravedigger can’t. This effectively gimps Gravedigger’s use as an execute quite heavily except in sets that invest heavily into crit chance, aka builds that will get sneezed on and die.

I have seen on this forum several time that players are suggesting to get a longer range on that spell. I think like GS3 it would be a good thing, not too many range for obvious reasons.

For the everything else I totally agree except maybe, nah I love the ice area on AA suggestion.

Btw I saw someone saying he had a hard time getting aura with RS2 it is easy to get with RS5. I often started my fight with RS5 on the first mob i saw then RS2. This way I got my aura and walk through the mob pack wich allow me to pack them a bit more. Not necessery usefull but fun. Like I said, I use RS2 to much just to jump and jump again. Man it feel good as a necro to finally be able to move “quicly” almost every 5s in event. Not the most efficient way to use it but so good.

xadine.7069:

As few others I do not agree we you on this point. I really enjoy this spell as it is for several reasons. 1) It allow me to jump like a rabbit. Honnestly with the right trait you perma jump in PvE wich give you a lot of mobility and allow you to leave ennemies AoE easely. But if it stop at the first target it touch it lose what make it so interesting to me. 2) It brings “positionning” in the game, at least in PvE (hard to PvP without basic knowledge of positionning i agree). I must confess I may have jump over a cliff several times but this spell remember me of Engi jump wich I enjoy (and may have get me jump over a cliff either…).
But I have to admit in it current state this spell must be a pain in the … in sPvP. On an other hand, it give a good mobility. As someone said I think the make it a skillshot like warrior GS 3 is a good way to change it. This way it become more easy to handle in PvP and don’t lose the “evade” part that is really enjoyable in PvE and WvW.

With the proposed change it wouldn’t lose any of its current functionality at all. If you simply de-targeted anything (no target at all), it would function exactly the same as now, so you wouldn’t lose anything in PvE. If you target something, it functions like most leaps.

The problem with making it work like warrior GS3 is they are skills with fundamentally different use-cases. War GS3 isn’t a gap closer, it is mobility, damage, and evade, you don’t need it to be a reliable gap closer because you have GS5 for that, plus warrior is pretty difficult to kite in general. RS2 however needs to be able to function as a reliable gap closer, as it is now RS2 is literally unusable in combat in PvP, especially if you have slow and end up not just missing your enemy, but moving so far away from them you’ll never get back. Propose change would make it work like Warrior sword 2, GS 5, Ranger GS3, Guardian GS3, and I’m sure a few others, which all still work nicely as mobility but are also good gap closers.

xadine.7069:

I have seen on this forum several time that players are suggesting to get a longer range on that spell. I think like GS3 it would be a good thing, not too many range for obvious reasons.

Could be a good idea, I didn’t personally have much of an issue landing it, I think the first thing to do would be make it worth using. As an example it lists longer range than 100b, however maybe making it 220 range like Maul would be appropriate.

xadine.7069:

Btw I saw someone saying he had a hard time getting aura with RS2 it is easy to get with RS5. I often started my fight with RS5 on the first mob i saw then RS2.

Yeah, I used it like this a bit too, also with RS4 you can immediately start a fight with 25 stacks of vuln on a chilled enemy with spite traiting, which paired with either Chilling Victory or Decimate Defenses has a lot of really nice synergy. You can also get the aura that way. Out of combat though RS2 is so much fun to use, its nice finally being able to get somewhere.

I hear ya Bhawb, but for PVE necro an evade… my god an evade, it’d be ohh so nice and something I feel necro is sorely lacking.

Jerus.4350:

I hear ya Bhawb, but for PVE necro an evade… my god an evade, it’d be ohh so nice and something I feel necro is sorely lacking.

Absolutely, its why I put a damage negation effect on Suffer 8 )

We could totally use more though.

Muchacho.2390:

mordran.4750:

Bhawb.7408:

Death’s Charge – Needs to function like a targeted leap

Very bad idea. Coming from a WvW perspective i used that skill numerous times to escape or for general mobility, very useful, please not more targeted stuff.

I think you misunderstand, what bhawb means. It would be more like the guardian GS leap or the warrior sword leap. They dont need a target to work but if they have a target they stop at the target.

As long as i can have a decision and as long as it is not in a way that i stop to move if i hit something on the way, Ok it might be an improvement. But we need mobility so badly in WvW that they should never ever remove the untargeted part of that ability.

I am repeating myself a lot, but I think spectral skills would be a very thematic place to put an “evade”, as if you became “ghostly” for 1s or 2 and thus everything just went through your body without touching you. But yes, an evade on RS 2 would also make much sense instead of just projectile deflection.

mordran.4750:

As long as i can have a decision and as long as it is not in a way that i stop to move if i hit something on the way, Ok it might be an improvement. But we need mobility so badly in WvW that they should never ever remove the untargeted part of that ability.

Take how it works right now. With my change, all you would have to do is not have a target selected, and it functions exactly the same, no change at all in any way. If you do have a target, it behaves like a normal leap and you go directly to and stop at that target. It only adds functionality, everything you’ve been using for it can still do.

Bhawb.7408:

mordran.4750:

As long as i can have a decision and as long as it is not in a way that i stop to move if i hit something on the way, Ok it might be an improvement. But we need mobility so badly in WvW that they should never ever remove the untargeted part of that ability.

Take how it works right now. With my change, all you would have to do is not have a target selected, and it functions exactly the same, no change at all in any way. If you do have a target, it behaves like a normal leap and you go directly to and stop at that target. It only adds functionality, everything you’ve been using for it can still do.

having to deselect a target everytime i need an escape is just annoying.. in pvp i allways have someone targeted. and if it stop on someone targeted while he’s in a group of others all he has to do to negate the effect on his team mates is to step one step closer to me.

Bhawb.7408:

Take how it works right now. With my change, all you would have to do is not have a target selected, and it functions exactly the same, no change at all in any way. If you do have a target, it behaves like a normal leap and you go directly to and stop at that target. It only adds functionality, everything you’ve been using for it can still do.

I can support that. I don’t ever want them to make this target required. I’m using it to escape as much as I’m using it to leap at someone.

An alternative if they want to make this a bit more skill based, is to make it a 2 step skill. Pressing it once it choppers forward like it does right now. If you press it again while it’s flying, it drops and does an aoe stomp of some sort.

Kind of like how WoW monk’s flying serpent kick works. In fact I prefer this way over the target/non-target method proposed.

gavyne.6847:

Bhawb.7408:

Take how it works right now. With my change, all you would have to do is not have a target selected, and it functions exactly the same, no change at all in any way. If you do have a target, it behaves like a normal leap and you go directly to and stop at that target. It only adds functionality, everything you’ve been using for it can still do.

I can support that. I don’t ever want them to make this target required. I’m using it to escape as much as I’m using it to leap at someone.

An alternative if they want to make this a bit more skill based, is to make it a 2 step skill. Pressing it once it choppers forward like it does right now. If you press it again while it’s flying, it drops and does an aoe stomp of some sort.

Kind of like how WoW monk’s flying serpent kick works.

this is an acceptable change. RS3 is allready like that so i see no problem with RS2 being the same way

Bhawb.7408:

xadine.7069:

I have seen on this forum several time that players are suggesting to get a longer range on that spell. I think like GS3 it would be a good thing, not too many range for obvious reasons.

Could be a good idea, I didn’t personally have much of an issue landing it, I think the first thing to do would be make it worth using. As an example it lists longer range than 100b, however maybe making it 220 range like Maul would be appropriate.

Another idea would be to add a pull to Gravedigger. It would make sense: have you noticed how in the animation the Reaper spins 2 times? If done fast enough it could create some kind of vacuum that would pull enemies in.
So the skill would pull 5 enemies in let’s say 200 units and then hit for a huge amount of damage (as it should be). This would also help solving the issue of Gravedigger being too hard to land.

Bhawb, since you asked for coeff/s and I can inform you that they are about the same as the close range coeffs (a bit lower actualy) of life blast, which are 1 coeff/s (If you haven’t already checked it). The whole math can be found on the reddit reaper BW1 feedback thread, the post is linked on the top of the page.

Overall I agree with your feedback, but why you pretty much trashed my attempt to discuss an alternate change proposal for augury to then say the same things here?

Bhawb.7408:

I think at least one of the shouts has to be a defensive measure at this point; Reaper still gets it really bad for not having any active defense, and shouts are a way for us to get a scaling active defense.
[…]
Augury of Death – I think this either needs to be 10% base with 5% per person hit (still 35% with 5 people hit, but only need to hit 2 to go even 20%), and/or needs a slight secondary effect. I think its a solid idea, increases the strength of shouts, but it has to compete with a very strong trait in Relentless Pursuit, and just about every CDR trait in the game gives more than just CDR.

Arche.7326:

Bhawb, since you asked for coeff/s and I can inform you that they are about the same as the close range coeffs (a bit lower actualy) of life blast, which are 1 coeff/s (If you haven’t already checked it). The whole math can be found on the reddit reaper BW1 feedback thread, the post is linked on the top of the page.

Yes, but you hit much faster in Reaper’s Shroud. The per-hit coefficient can be lower, since you hit so much more often.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Arche.7326:

Bhawb, since you asked for coeff/s and I can inform you that they are about the same as the close range coeffs (a bit lower actualy) of life blast, which are 1 coeff/s (If you haven’t already checked it). The whole math can be found on the reddit reaper BW1 feedback thread, the post is linked on the top of the page.

Yes, but you hit much faster in Reaper’s Shroud. The per-hit coefficient can be lower, since you hit so much more often.

I was talking about just that, the coefficient per second. RS#1 are about the same as Life Blast coeff/s.

Hi, I unfortunately wasn’t able to play a lot during the weekend so it’s good to read these comments. With that in mind, I’ll pose my notes as questions and thoughts to you guys.

How does Unyielding Blast work in Reaper Shroud. What pierces?

Reaper’s Onslaught – Does attack speed only apply to RS skill 1?
I tested it with other skills and didn’t notice an increase on them. Does it only speed up the animation and not the induction? Bhawb in the OP mentioned it is bugged.

Chilling Nova – ICD of 15s. A low ICD on a faster attacking weapon might be problematic.
Though that circular synergy with – Chilling Nova (Critical hits against chilled foes chills others) → Bitter Chill (Chilling a foe inflicts vulnerability) → Decimate Defenses (Striking a foe with vulnerability increases your critical hit chance) – would be nice.
You would get stronger the more you attack, making foes not want to stand together.

Cold Shoulder – With chill usually having such short durations, does 10% on all applied chills seem unnoticeable? Would longer duration on some chills be better? say, x% chance that applied chills are y% longer. where y could be a much more satisfying number?

“Rise!” – My testing just highlighted similar problems that Mark of Horror had. When they spawn, they just run to my side instead of attacking the foe that caused them to spawn. I assume the passive nature of them is tied back when necros would spawn one after a death (now reapplied in Death Nova) and they would just run off and agro yet more mobs.
A few suggestions:
- Have them spawn more passive and tanky then a sequence skill used to make them attack more aggressively and less tanky until they’re dead.
- Have them attack a foe from further away from them. A sort of a leap onto the foe, on attack, as a gap closer. Their lives are too short the be constantly chasing after someone whose running in circles.
- Have them apply frost aura on themselves when they hit some percentage of heath.
- Have them spawn with Frost Aura for the first 25% of health, normal for the next 25% and more aggressive for the last 50%. Maybe something similar to Fire Shield in their dying moments.

I would love so see “Your soul is mine” to give more life force. The concept is really great and it can get even better!
It can be changed to scale LF generation depending on our current health. The lower on HP you are the more it will heal you, but will give less LF and the more hp you have it will give more LF. It can have restriction for instance if you are above 90% or even 75% hp you get nothing from the skill.
I really would love to have healing skill that I can use with high hp just to get LF. I will decide if I need the healing or if I need the LF.

@Bhawb the reason I would.like the third hit in the GS AA to be chillblains (damage+chill+posion) is all about synergy and opening build options, it being a mark goes with the trait to make marks give life force and unblock able so you get lf from AA if you trait for it, and you cold take putrid defense since you would have good access to posion.

Also think reaper minor three needs to just be a damage reduction when using a gs. No reason to have it tied to chill like it is. We need the damage reduction in melee anyways.

Well let’s just hope the devs are listening since the problems people point out are consistent across all forums and articles I have read, GS damage to low for the speed, RS seems to drain really fast, Shouts lack luster and not even on par with tempest.

Pulsicle.3192:

Reaper’s Onslaught – Does attack speed only apply to RS skill 1?
I tested it with other skills and didn’t notice an increase on them. Does it only speed up the animation and not the induction? Bhawb in the OP mentioned it is bugged.

I tried with and without that trait and RS1 wasn’t affect either. RS1 is just a pretty fast AA chain wich explain why it doesn’t hit harder than it does.

Bhawb.7408:

mordran.4750:

A lot of Dmg ? Compared to Life Blasts the Dmg is really low, if you take into account that i have to be in melee range, balance between risk vs reward is not given.

It gives pretty high cleaving damage that stacks both might and vulnerability far better than Life Blast could ever hope to. However, as many others have mentioned I might have been biased because of my build being focused on RS, so if its damage does need a bit of buffing I’m on board.

Problem is, you are not as tanky in RS as you are in DS, so to get something out of your might stacks you have to be in melee range for a time. And to compensate for the loss of tankyness i think a buff to dmg would be justified.