Guild Wars 2

give the trait an ICD

No. If Anet truly believes Deathly Chill is too powerful, they should tone down the amount of bleeds. An ICD would destroy the skill utterly.

man if it wasnt op you wouldnt see like every necro running it, I fail to see how one person stacking like 25+ bleeds alone isnt op

An ICD would kill it. But that’s what we expect from Anet balance. Overbuff then nerf until it’s worse than if they had left it alone.

I prefer one of these scenarios:

Reduce bleed stacks to 2. That might still prove to be OP, but perhaps not.

Revert back to one stack, but iremove the ICD of Chilling Darkness

The only way your complaint is even remotely legitimate would be if you’re talking about WvW. So I’m guessing that’s what you’re refering to by saying they’re “out of control”?

Remember how the patch notes back then said: Increased bleed stacks to 3 for 5 seconds in PvE only.

We don’t know if having 3 stacks in WvW was actually intended, but basically in your opinion they overbuffed the bleed stack amount, right?
Now, why would you suggest an icd to counteract this? Could you really not think of a more obvious solution? Not to mention that icds are lame and would defeat the purpose of this trait completely.

I can verify this in SPVP and WvW.

This can be done at range and the exact culprit of this is deathly chill with earth/ice sigils in combination with a high precision build, bleed on crit traits, and Necromancer axe 2.

Right now there isn’t too much of a defense on this outside of berserker stance resistance on warrior or diamond skin/immortal WET tempest. Due to how rapidly the bleeds stack, you can easily one shot someone who doesn’t have a full clear.

While I see this as less problematic in WvW (necros can’t really escape and are committed to fights), in SPVP is a massive issue due to having to fight them on point.

Necromancer is very powerful in SPVP right now running the Procmancer Axe build because they can instant kill you with three skills: Axe 2, Scythe 5, and Scythe 2. If you get hit by any of these during a CC or without a clear your dead beyond dead.

I would rate this worst than warrior arc divider spam. Warriors are at least more predicatable, because when they rage you know you need to pop CDs or die (this is also problematic because warrior rage mode is pretty much a free capture point steal due to how much of the circle arc divide covers). With Axe 2, its so hard to see coming.

I agree that Chilling Death is really bad right now, but only in this combination. I mean Scythe 2 and 5 can also stack 25 bleeds but at least you can predict them and a good mesmer/engineer should moa shrouded reapers in a team fight.

It’s really frustrating to be fighting a necromancer then have him do some ranged sign language with his axe that has no projectile animation to stack 25 bleed you and instantly end the fight.

lordhelmos.7623:

snip

Considering the Chilling Death change did not apply to sPvP, I’m not really sure why you’re having issues there. I would say your mistake is eating a full DS5 and DS4 and thinking you should be fine afterwards. Your comment that axe 2 by itself can stack 25 stacks of bleed is downright laughable though. Necros suffer in sPvP due to how easy it is to train them down if they get isolated.

Deathly chill in WvW deserves another look though. The trait is a bit overtuned currently, especially since it doesn’t require a lot of active play on the necros part to get full benefit from it. I don’t believe that adding an icd to the trait is the answer though.

The only problem with it is that the trait is not yet split between PvE and WvW. Split it, end of the problem.

Helly.2597:

Your comment that axe 2 by itself can stack 25 stacks of bleed is downright laughable though.

Especially since it’s impossible. At the absolute most, with absurd luck beyond belief, you would get 12 bleeds off of Axe 2. That is assuming every one of the 8 strikes crits and triggers Barbed Precision (only a .014% chance to begin with, assuming 100% crit chance) and triggers Earth sigil once (ICD prevents more than one application) and triggers Ice sigil once (again, ICD) and triggers Chilling Nova and Chilling Nova procs Barbed Precision (down to a .0046% chance now). Ice Sigil and Chilling Nova are not guaranteed to be off cooldown. The two chill applications only apply 1 stack.

That is literally every bleed you can get off of Axe 2 in PvP. PvE gets up to 10 more in chilli pepper poppers and increased stacks of bleed on Deathly Chill, but even then, that’s only with absurd luck and still shy of the supposed 25. Absolute max is 22 with all relevant cooldowns being available, it being nighttime, and with a 100% crit chance, it’s still only a .00074% chance to do so.

lordhelmos.7623:

This can be done at range and the exact culprit of this is deathly chill with earth/ice sigils in combination with a high precision build, bleed on crit traits, and Necromancer axe 2.

If a necro put more than 8 stack of bleed while channeling axe 2, trust me, it have just transferred some condi with
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Plague_Signet ,
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Plague_Sending or
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Suffer!%22
or you are just steped in https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Putrid_Mark

lordhelmos.7623:

Right now there isn’t too much of a defense on this outside of berserker stance resistance on warrior or diamond skin/immortal WET tempest. Due to how rapidly the bleeds stack, you can easily one shot someone who doesn’t have a full clear.

As every damaging condition

lordhelmos.7623:

While I see this as less problematic in WvW (necros can’t really escape and are committed to fights), in SPVP is a massive issue due to having to fight them on point.

Just lol

lordhelmos.7623:

Necromancer is very powerful in SPVP right now running the Procmancer Axe build because they can instant kill you with three skills: Axe 2, Scythe 5, and Scythe 2. If you get hit by any of these during a CC or without a clear your dead beyond dead.

The power procmancer burst come from
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spiteful_Spirit +
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chilling_Nova +
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Air +
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Fire ,
Just entering in shroud (procmancer)

lordhelmos.7623:

I would rate this worst than warrior arc divider spam. Warriors are at least more predicatable, because when they rage you know you need to pop CDs or die (this is also problematic because warrior rage mode is pretty much a free capture point steal due to how much of the circle arc divide covers). With Axe 2, its so hard to see coming.

I’ll be very glad to see our Axe with reflectable projectile if the Warrior’s trait allow only the shield’s block to reflect projectiles + endure pain turned to a stunbreak + 4 seconds of block

It’s really frustrating to be fighting a necromancer then have him do some ranged sign language with his axe that has no projectile animation to stack 25 bleed you and instantly end the fight.

Isn’t necromancers always marked? You only have to kill it once, then always fcus the necro when i respawn with low life force.

Lahmia.2193:

No. If Anet truly believes Deathly Chill is too powerful, they should tone down the amount of bleeds. An ICD would destroy the skill utterly.

Ok then remove all other icd for traits then. Why dose blinding ash have an icd realty all ele traits have these icd that makes them much more weaker.

Chills are easy for reaper to out put and if its going to stay 3 stack per chill your going to need to put an icd for at least per player or chill/bleed is always going to be the best dmg tool necro has.

Jski.6180:

Lahmia.2193:

No. If Anet truly believes Deathly Chill is too powerful, they should tone down the amount of bleeds. An ICD would destroy the skill utterly.

Ok then remove all other icd for traits then. Why dose blinding ash have an icd realty all ele traits have these icd that makes them much more weaker.

Chills are easy for reaper to out put and if its going to stay 3 stack per chill your going to need to put an icd for at least per player or chill/bleed is always going to be the best dmg tool necro has.

The skill wasn’t overpowered at all before. Then Anet tripled the bleed stacks it inflicted (in pve/wvw only). Tell me where is the logic in giving it an ICD when the problem came about because Anet over-tuned it with the last buff?

On another note, the only game mode in which it is overpowered is in WvW. This was probably an oversight by anet considering it was meant to be a pve only buff (WvW sometimes counts as pve, for skill splits, and sometimes counts as pvp).

Lahmia.2193:

Jski.6180:

Lahmia.2193:

No. If Anet truly believes Deathly Chill is too powerful, they should tone down the amount of bleeds. An ICD would destroy the skill utterly.

Ok then remove all other icd for traits then. Why dose blinding ash have an icd realty all ele traits have these icd that makes them much more weaker.

Chills are easy for reaper to out put and if its going to stay 3 stack per chill your going to need to put an icd for at least per player or chill/bleed is always going to be the best dmg tool necro has.

The skill wasn’t overpowered at all before. Then Anet tripled the bleed stacks it inflicted (in pve/wvw only). Tell me where is the logic in giving it an ICD when the problem came about because Anet over-tuned it with the last buff?

On another note, the only game mode in which it is overpowered is in WvW. This was probably an oversight by anet considering it was meant to be a pve only buff (WvW sometimes counts as pve, for skill splits, and sometimes counts as pvp).

It is and its crazy that you do not see it. The old chilling death was too powerful most ppl saw it so it became bleeds now the bleeds stacking to 3 makes it just as powerful as the old chilling death in many ways stronger because it lets you do more then just 1 stack of condi dmg its 3 stacks per chill effect.

Jski.6180:

Lahmia.2193:

Jski.6180:

Lahmia.2193:

No. If Anet truly believes Deathly Chill is too powerful, they should tone down the amount of bleeds. An ICD would destroy the skill utterly.

Ok then remove all other icd for traits then. Why dose blinding ash have an icd realty all ele traits have these icd that makes them much more weaker.

Chills are easy for reaper to out put and if its going to stay 3 stack per chill your going to need to put an icd for at least per player or chill/bleed is always going to be the best dmg tool necro has.

The skill wasn’t overpowered at all before. Then Anet tripled the bleed stacks it inflicted (in pve/wvw only). Tell me where is the logic in giving it an ICD when the problem came about because Anet over-tuned it with the last buff?

On another note, the only game mode in which it is overpowered is in WvW. This was probably an oversight by anet considering it was meant to be a pve only buff (WvW sometimes counts as pve, for skill splits, and sometimes counts as pvp).

It is and its crazy that you do not see it. The old chilling death was too powerful most ppl saw it so it became bleeds now the bleeds stacking to 3 makes it just as powerful as the old chilling death in many ways stronger because it lets you do more then just 1 stack of condi dmg its 3 stacks per chill effect.

You don’t need to be a genius to work out that I was referring to the previous 1 bleed stack per chill, as not being overpowered. And as you conveniently ignored, I did highlight the fact that the only mode it is OP in is WvW. They could easily fix this without any ICD or changes to the trait itself, but rather revert it back to the old 1 stack of bleed in WvW (as it is in PvP).

Alveen.7239:

give the trait an ICD

I’d love to know which forum you came from. What class do you main, friend?

Jski.6180:

It is and its crazy that you do not see it. The old chilling death was too powerful most ppl saw it so it became bleeds now the bleeds stacking to 3 makes it just as powerful as the old chilling death in many ways stronger because it lets you do more then just 1 stack of condi dmg its 3 stacks per chill effect.

The old Deathly chill was changed to bleeds because the trait didn’t stack with multiple reapers because chill don’t stack meaning only the one reaper whose chill was currently active was getting anything out of the trait. They changed it so reapers don’t have to compete with eachother to get something out of the trait. If they only wanted to nerf it they would just reduce numbers like they did before the change.
The reason it’s bleeds specifically is because Anet thought it was the most fitting condition as the other conditions did more than just damage and burn was to powerful.

Alveen.7239:

man if it wasnt op you wouldnt see like every necro running it, I fail to see how one person stacking like 25+ bleeds alone isnt op

IIRC, I can do that with a pure Necro build … and for a matter of fact, get MANY more bleed stacked from a condi Ranger. I don’t know of other classes, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a few others that have massive condi damage potential I’m not familiar with.

So flip that question … if it IS considered OP, why is that amount a standard, not an exception for classes with focused condition builds? You fail to see how it’s possible, simply because you DON’T want to see it happen.

Now, if you were to provide actual reasoning why people shouldn’t be able to stack lots of bleed stacks, … let us know it.

Obtena.7952:

Alveen.7239:

man if it wasnt op you wouldnt see like every necro running it, I fail to see how one person stacking like 25+ bleeds alone isnt op

IIRC, I can do that with a pure Necro build … and for a matter of fact, get MANY more bleed stacked from a condi Ranger. I don’t know of other classes, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a few others that have massive condi damage potential I’m not familiar with.

So flip that question … if it IS considered OP, why is that amount a standard, not an exception for classes with focused condition builds? You fail to see how it’s possible, simply because you DON’T want to see it happen.

Now, if you were to provide actual reasoning why people shouldn’t be able to stack lots of bleed stacks, … let us know it.

I think I managed ~50 stacks purely with a ranger/shortbow. PLS NERF ANET 2 STRONK!!!!1!!!1

Zero Solstice.9754:

Alveen.7239:

give the trait an ICD

I’d love to know which forum you came from. What class do you main, friend?

I main power mesmer

Obtena.7952:

Alveen.7239:

man if it wasnt op you wouldnt see like every necro running it, I fail to see how one person stacking like 25+ bleeds alone isnt op

IIRC, I can do that with a pure Necro build … and for a matter of fact, get MANY more bleed stacked from a condi Ranger. I don’t know of other classes, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a few others that have massive condi damage potential I’m not familiar with.

So flip that question … if it IS considered OP, why is that amount a standard, not an exception for classes with focused condition builds? You fail to see how it’s possible, simply because you DON’T want to see it happen.

Now, if you were to provide actual reasoning why people shouldn’t be able to stack lots of bleed stacks, … let us know it.

necros can stack heaps of bleeds with high toughness and vit(and an extra hp bar), if they were squishy I wouldnt have a problem with it.

Also to be clear, I couldn’t care less about PvE I just want this change for PvP and WvW

Alveen.7239:

Zero Solstice.9754:

Alveen.7239:

give the trait an ICD

I’d love to know which forum you came from. What class do you main, friend?

I main power mesmer

Oh, perfect, so now I understand you’re coming cross-forum to complain because you main a class/build that is countered harder by condi than probably any other individual build in the game, being rivaled only by Engineer.

Perspective can be a kitten.

Alveen.7239:

Obtena.7952:

Alveen.7239:

man if it wasnt op you wouldnt see like every necro running it, I fail to see how one person stacking like 25+ bleeds alone isnt op

IIRC, I can do that with a pure Necro build … and for a matter of fact, get MANY more bleed stacked from a condi Ranger. I don’t know of other classes, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a few others that have massive condi damage potential I’m not familiar with.

So flip that question … if it IS considered OP, why is that amount a standard, not an exception for classes with focused condition builds? You fail to see how it’s possible, simply because you DON’T want to see it happen.

Now, if you were to provide actual reasoning why people shouldn’t be able to stack lots of bleed stacks, … let us know it.

necros can stack heaps of bleeds with high toughness and vit(and an extra hp bar), if they were squishy I wouldnt have a problem with it.

Let’s be clear here because if Necros could actually burst bleed you for 25 stacks, then maybe you have a point, but building 25 bleed stacks, with a Necro in PVP … that suggests more of a fail on the opponents part than anything. You point makes even LESS sense in non-PVE game elements because if you can’t react and deal with 25 stacks of bleed on you, you’re doing something massively wrong, tactically or strategically.

Alveen.7239:

necros can stack heaps of bleeds with high toughness and vit(and an extra hp bar), if they were squishy I wouldnt have a problem with it.

toughness + vitality combo is the culprit, i wonder why such amulet’s stat aren’t allowed in pvp.
Vitality+Toughness+Condition make WvW the “3.5 version” of pvp.

Stop addressing blame to the infamous “second health bar”, if necromancers could use their life force to evade attack you’ll see people start blaming evades..
Shroud can shield you from damage but if you don’t try to avoid damage while in shroud you’ll often find yourself stomped.

Zero Solstice.9754:

Alveen.7239:

Zero Solstice.9754:

Alveen.7239:

give the trait an ICD

I’d love to know which forum you came from. What class do you main, friend?

I main power mesmer

Oh, perfect, so now I understand you’re coming cross-forum to complain because you main a class/build that is countered harder by condi than probably any other individual build in the game, being rivaled only by Engineer.

Perspective can be a kitten.

I probably have the most condi clear as a power mes you can get without compromising dps, 10 in total. I don’t know why its so hard for you to see why its op but I guess you’ll always be biased when it comes to your own class lol

If you get 25 bleed stacks applied to you in competitive environments, and you have 10 ways to clear them … and this is still a problem for you … it’s certainly NOT the mechanics of the game at fault here.

Obtena.7952:

Alveen.7239:

Obtena.7952:

Alveen.7239:

man if it wasnt op you wouldnt see like every necro running it, I fail to see how one person stacking like 25+ bleeds alone isnt op

IIRC, I can do that with a pure Necro build … and for a matter of fact, get MANY more bleed stacked from a condi Ranger. I don’t know of other classes, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a few others that have massive condi damage potential I’m not familiar with.

So flip that question … if it IS considered OP, why is that amount a standard, not an exception for classes with focused condition builds? You fail to see how it’s possible, simply because you DON’T want to see it happen.

Now, if you were to provide actual reasoning why people shouldn’t be able to stack lots of bleed stacks, … let us know it.

necros can stack heaps of bleeds with high toughness and vit(and an extra hp bar), if they were squishy I wouldnt have a problem with it.

Let’s be clear here because if Necros could actually burst bleed you for 25 stacks, then maybe you have a point, but building 25 bleed stacks, with a Necro in PVP … that suggests more of a fail on the opponents part than anything. You point makes even LESS sense in non-PVE game elements because if you can’t react and deal with 25 stacks of bleed on you, you’re doing something massively wrong, tactically or strategically.

Well I mean as well as bleeds you get blinds, poison, weakness, confusion, chill, cripple etc etc. So no, I cant just clear the bleeds.

Obtena.7952:

If you get 25 bleed stacks applied to you in competitive environments, and you have 10 ways to clear them … and this is still a problem for you … it’s certainly NOT the mechanics of the game at fault here.

you seem to think once I clear a stack of bleeds that im immune to them or something lol

maybe they should change the skill for wvw but if they touch it in pve necro is obliterated completely

Alveen.7239:

Obtena.7952:

If you get 25 bleed stacks applied to you in competitive environments, and you have 10 ways to clear them … and this is still a problem for you … it’s certainly NOT the mechanics of the game at fault here.

you seem to think once I clear a stack of bleeds that im immune to them or something lol

You seem to think we don’t understand how the game works. If that’s what you gather from what I’m saying, then why would anyone think you are here in good faith to discuss reasonable changes? Obviously you’re going to get the hostile witness approach … and gain nothing from it. If you have something of value to say, maybe do so in a more sensible way … otherwise, you could care less about anyone taking you seriously and you make your thread a joke purely by your own bad approach. /shrug. GL

OK, let’s say bleed is out of control … I don’t actually see how your suggestion would solve that; I think in fact, it makes it worse, because that forced restriction opens up the build capabilities; currently, bursting chill to apply that many bleeds takes all the skill bar slots to do so. Then what? What kind of necro build is that in those competitive environments? Sounds absolute crap IMO. I mean, don’t make it sound like I can Chill, apply 25 bleeds and ALL those other conditions at the same time … rendering your 10 cleanses completely useless! That’s silly.

Frankly, if you are serious, then show us this build that’s OP’ed so we can talk about it, instead of just being ridiculous with 3 word sentences you know no one will take seriously.

Alveen, others have already told you, no icd is needed. The only issue is in WvW, where Deathly Chills applies 3 stacks of bleeding. In sPvP, Deathly Chills still only applies 1 stack of bleeding and it isn’t an issue. All that needs to happen is for Anet to split the skill between PvE and WvW (alread split from sPvP), reducing the stacks applied to 1 stack in WvW, and then problem solved. No sense in breaking stuff simply because you don’t understand it.

Alveen.7239:

Zero Solstice.9754:

Alveen.7239:

Zero Solstice.9754:

Alveen.7239:

give the trait an ICD

I’d love to know which forum you came from. What class do you main, friend?

I main power mesmer

Oh, perfect, so now I understand you’re coming cross-forum to complain because you main a class/build that is countered harder by condi than probably any other individual build in the game, being rivaled only by Engineer.

Perspective can be a kitten.

I probably have the most condi clear as a power mes you can get without compromising dps, 10 in total. I don’t know why its so hard for you to see why its op but I guess you’ll always be biased when it comes to your own class lol

I play every class, which is why I have an opinion. Necromancer is just the most fun to me.

Right, you have as much cleanse as you can possibly muster as a Power Mesmer, and it still isn’t enough. That’s my point. I’m not biased towards my own class, to be fair to you I found the Deathly Chill change to be overtuned the instant I read the patchnotes, I just don’t consider your opinion fully valid because it comes from the perspective of quite possibly the single weakest spec in the game against high Condition uptime, especially Weakness uptime. The same way you’re claiming a bias on me, I can claim one on you.

Besides, you can’t really come onto the Necromancer forum and not expect people to argue against your viewpoint of wanting to nerf our class.

Zero Solstice.9754:

Alveen.7239:

Zero Solstice.9754:

Alveen.7239:

give the trait an ICD

I’d love to know which forum you came from. What class do you main, friend?

I main power mesmer

Oh, perfect, so now I understand you’re coming cross-forum to complain because you main a class/build that is countered harder by condi than probably any other individual build in the game, being rivaled only by Engineer.

Perspective can be a kitten.

Power Mesmer should hardcounter a necro easily just from the ease of range dictation combined with necromancer’s inability to deal with large amounts of spike damage.

The thing is that he is coming from WvW where the trait uses the PvE version, and necros can use dire gear to fix their sustain problems.

In sPvP where there isn’t PvE bullcrap, a power Mesmer can easily murder a necromancer with minimal effort.

ITT: typical WvW problems that wouldn’t be problems if WvW uses sPvP restrictions, but that community refuses to see that and instead demands to have classes completely gutted just to band aid fix their broken game mode.

Honestly, the trait is fine as it is since the “op-ness” lies on landing all your chills which requires a bit of setup. More so when trying to land all the whirls in a chill field. On the flipside you have something like a condi mesmer who can type /sit and peak between 60-70 bleeds while the necro has yet again lost out on their damage from accidentally whirling a water field instead of their chill field for the third time. Unless you’re running the “Frost gun” the chill/bleed stacks are anything but free.

Ultimately, what I’m getting at is insane bleeds stack from a single player isn’t anything new, and other classes have been doing that ever since condition stacks have been reworked.

Edit: If you have 10 condi clears and are still complaining against the rework on the trait? Then the trait rework is clearly not the issue…..especially since the trait didn’t even touch PvP, and I’m trying to see how Necro’s can consistently maximize the rework of the trait in WvW with all the field overlaps and “chickens with their heads cut off” to the point that you’re 10 condi clears have become compromised.

Edit 2: The Frost gun was disabled 7 days ago so that’s not even exploitable anymore

I didn’t read all of the posts above, after saying I don’t think it’s close to as powerful in PvP than WvW, but my suggestion with the skill and has been since they nuked it the first time was to make Chill damage work. Something unique to one Profession needs to happen. Why not bring that back, figure an acceptable damage coefficient, preferably weaker than Burn, but have stacking ability like Poison? Maybe even have the damage on the level of Poison or a little higher. It’s already a great soft CC, and can be stacked well with the right build. Like Poison, the -33% to Healing is great on it’s own, but has low damage unless stacked quite high. I think Chill damage should be on the same level. Necro doesn’t have much, making this skill work, and not be OP is something the Profession needs. And I rarely play mine anymore. I just know it needs help in some way.

Necro has been the redheaded stepchild of GW2 pvp for yrs now. Competitive builds don’t last very long for Necro. Though with the way the skill is now, it’s harder to counter than the last iteration of Chill damage before it was totally changed. Instead of 1 condition to clear, you have 2 to mitigate along with the other cover conditions flying around. I think a rework to Chill damage will be good for both the Necro and their opponent if done correctly. Just my opinion. Nothing will work if they don’t do real testing before full implementation. That’s for sure.

JDjitsu.7895:

Though with the way the skill is now, it’s harder to counter than the last iteration of Chill damage before it was totally changed. Instead of 1 condition to clear, you have 2 to mitigate along with the other cover conditions flying around. That’s for sure.

The rework to the trait was over a year ago so if players are caught of guard by this then it’s more on then for not keeping up with the class. Plus, even before the trait change it was extremely common (if not unavoidable) to have both bleed and chill on you when encountering a necro, so there’s no surprise there. The only difference nowadays being that you only have one damaging condition to worry about rather than two now (since chill no longer does damage over time). On top of that Necro’s have always been known to overwhelm you with conditions so there’s always been the challenge of praying to the Six that your condi cleanse is timed to cleared the right. conditions.

What it comes down to is the chill on bleed become a build in counter to clears both for trying to remove the bleeds and the cd+ added to the skills that would clear such effect. It becomes both the best soft cc in the game and nearly the best high stacking condi dmg effect. That why more effects are condi dmg that gives a soft cc not soft cc giving a condi dmg.

2 stacks would probably be about right instead of 3. 1 was quite underwhelming tbh. The problem also is many players haven’t adapted to fighting reapers. So many players just eat S5-S4 combos like it’s no big deal… its easy to avoid therefore you won’t have 20+ bleeds on you. People just like to stick onto reapers and face tank them in WvW… you can but you need to time it after their shroud combo.

25 bleeds looks daunting but it is the weakest damaging condition and requires large stacks to even approach the damage of other conditions such as burning and torment.

Famine.7915:

25 bleeds looks daunting but it is the weakest damaging condition and requires large stacks to even approach the damage of other conditions such as burning and torment.

Depending on the class it’s roughly about 3 stacks of bleeding = 1 burn. So something like condi rangers/warriors/ele’s who peak their burn caps around 30 equate to that of a Necro pushing out just under 100 bleeds (very rough numbers since malice scaling on conditions goes from 0.05 – 0.155)

Gideon.6742:

2 stacks would probably be about right instead of 3.

Seems like the way to go for the WvW split. Right in the middle of 1 bleed (8s) in PvP and 3 bleeds (5s) in PvE. 2 bleeds (6.5s) would look all right in WvW.

Wondrouswall.7169:

Gideon.6742:

2 stacks would probably be about right instead of 3.

Seems like the way to go for the WvW split. Right in the middle of 1 bleed (8s) in PvP and 3 bleeds (5s) in PvE. 2 bleeds (6.5s) would look all right in WvW.

Every single WvW Reaper runs +100% bleeding duration.

Doesn’t matter if trailblazer, viper or a mix of both… it’s +100% duration.

So we are comparing

3 bleeds @ 10 seconds in WvW <> 1 bleed @ 8 seconds (carrion) or 1 bleed @ 11 seconds (wanderer) in sPvP

2 bleeds @ 13 seconds is still too strong. You are dead if you can’t cleanse the bleeds a full bunker condi reaper can apply and cover with 5 trash conditions within 2 seconds – and I am not talking about shroud 5+4 combo! This has to be fixed.

You want bleeds nerfed, then give us something in return. Only because of deathly chill can necro dps go to range of “acceptale” for raid comps and we can get into a raid or two..

ZeftheWicked.3076:

You want bleeds nerfed, then give us something in return. Only because of deathly chill can necro dps go to range of “acceptale” for raid comps and we can get into a raid or two..

And that’s only if we manage to combo off of our only ice field. Needs more personal combo field priority!

Rangers can do the same thing but with 33% higher bleeding dmg.

Kumouta.4985:

Rangers can do the same thing but with 33% higher bleeding dmg.

And burning.

Alveen.7239:

give the trait an ICD

You cannot be serious!
They already did that treatment with “Chilling darkness” and now it is near non-functional!

Maybe bleeds do not fit how about added 1 stack of torment or poison on chill. So it will still do ok condi dmg with out doing too high and at the same time give you an added effect of making it harder for someone to get away or harder to heal.

Torment on chill something i been asking for on ele for a long time because it fits the blizzard effect from fractals.

Jski.6180:

Maybe bleeds do not fit how about added 1 stack of torment or poison on chill. So it will still do ok condi dmg with out doing too high and at the same time give you an added effect of making it harder for someone to get away or harder to heal.

Torment on chill something i been asking for on ele for a long time because it fits the blizzard effect from fractals.

No need for these suggestions. It just needs a split for WvW.

Lahmia.2193:

Jski.6180:

Maybe bleeds do not fit how about added 1 stack of torment or poison on chill. So it will still do ok condi dmg with out doing too high and at the same time give you an added effect of making it harder for someone to get away or harder to heal.

Torment on chill something i been asking for on ele for a long time because it fits the blizzard effect from fractals.

No need for these suggestions. It just needs a split for WvW.

That would be nice but the trait is weak in spvp 1 stack of bleed is nothing if it was 1 stack of poison or torment it would be viable in spvp and still be usable in other parts of the game.

On the wvw pve split i do not think its going to happen raids have made a anet that is hellbent on making pve only content.