Guild Wars 2

Blighter’s Boon: Gain lifeforce when you gain a boon. If you are in reaper’s shroud, gain health instead.
So, the way I see it, this can pair well with Reaper’s Might and Spiteful Spirit, as well a benefit from a garden variety of other skills that Necro has. However, a tiny heal on deathshroud autoattack seems like it could be very weak, especially when one enemy attack = ten autoattacks in healing. The only place this skill does anything is in an environment where boons are being aoe spammed constantly, and even then it seems mediocre.
I feel like this skill could use some number adjustments so that the necro can make use of it alone and allow it to shine in group fights. For example, The lifeforce gain could be taken from 1% to 3% since necros have very little boon application outside deathshroud, and the healing in deathshroud could be increased to healing signet numbers (300ish) since it cannot be paired with reaper’s onslaught. This might seem like a lot, but I feel like this trait needs to be very strong in order to justify the opportunity cost of not running the other two Reaper GM’s

dude, this grandmaster trait is insanely strong, attacking in shroud is already 266 hp/s without any healing power.. this is what ele gets from signet of renewal.

if you combine this with the trait that gives you might when you attack chilled targets it’s 4x 133 hp per second with auto attack..

You got reapers might thats cool but you missed siphoned power which looks to grant 2 stacks while having a 2s internal cooldown ( watch the video ). Also look at the trait chilling force….everytime you strike a chilled foe you gain might for 5s. With all the multi hit skills like RS #4 and GS #3.

Also in the video he chills two trolls and then whirls and maxes out at 25 stacks easily and it keeps refreshing. From some random math ive done it can actually mean you can gain around 2~10k hp from it and maybe around 15~60% life force.
Its actually perfectly fine as it is.

1. Might stacking, at least in short durations, is very, very easy for Reapers. Reaper’s Might stacks faster than with Death Shroud, but more importantly is Frozen Might, which, if left as-is, will give you Might stacks on every hit if you’re good with your chill application. Up to 55 procs on RS4.

2. RS3 gives 8 stacks of Stability overall, meaning 8 procs on an instant cast skill.

3. You Are All Weaklings can potentially proc this 20 times.

4. If you have allies, they will fart boons on you as well.

No, Blighter’s Boon is fantastic as it is. Chilling Might could probably stand to get nerfed a bit, though. 1 second per-foe ICD should be sufficient.

Alright. I was worried about this skill because I haven’t seen it being used in any theorycrafting. Although, does a chunk might stacks proc it individually each time?

Yeah its going to be a very strong sustain trait. One we really needed. Wont have much use in most PvE content. But its still a very nice addition.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

1. Might stacking, at least in short durations, is very, very easy for Reapers. Reaper’s Might stacks faster than with Death Shroud, but more importantly is Frozen Might, which, if left as-is, will give you Might stacks on every hit if you’re good with your chill application. Up to 55 procs on RS4.

2. RS3 gives 8 stacks of Stability overall, meaning 8 procs on an instant cast skill.

3. You Are All Weaklings can potentially proc this 20 times.

4. If you have allies, they will fart boons on you as well.

No, Blighter’s Boon is fantastic as it is. Chilling Might could probably stand to get nerfed a bit, though. 1 second per-foe ICD should be sufficient.

You cant use utilities while in RS so you are all weaklings will only give you life force.

and dont forget chilling force(if left as is) also gives 1% lf aswell. So while its is giving you extra might(and healing ur hp pool) while in RS, it is also giving you more RS staying pwr.

spoj.9672:

Yeah its going to be a very strong sustain trait. One we really needed. Wont have much use in most PvE content. But its still a very nice addition.

it theoretically could, scythe is a cleave so you can hit up to 3 enemies giving you 6 might stacks per second (auto attack is 0,5s and might from reapers might) which is 6×133hp.
pretty good to tank trashmobs when somebody can give you protection.

So the trick would be to keep chill on a foe indefinitely. Sounds easier said than done, and to use the might on chill, you’d have to give up Decimate Defenses.

Cecilia.5179:

So the trick would be to keep chill on a foe indefinitely. Sounds easier said than done, and to use the might on chill, you’d have to give up Decimate Defenses.

Still have deathly perception which is strong enough enough mixing the two is overkill as you’d reach ridiculous level of crit chance(120+% while in RS.)

If it’s ANY boon gained, including outside sources, it’s actually very powerful. This means if there is any pre-buffing, no longer will Necros have to start with 0 LF.

It does NOT need a buff. That said, I hope it doesn’t get nerfed either. At least not with a ICD because they would completely ruin the team-based defense it gives allowing it to fight front lines. It’s the perfect trait.

Cecilia.5179:

So the trick would be to keep chill on a foe indefinitely. Sounds easier said than done, and to use the might on chill, you’d have to give up Decimate Defenses.

The trick will definitely be keeping chill up.

By my best guess the reaper alone will have at best 40 ish % chill up time while in shroud (without dropping it) & that is by dropping other stats to gain + condition duration.

But ya crit will be nothing to worry about for a reaper as they will get up to 50% from decimate defenses and another 50% from perception of death.

ronpierce.2760:

If it’s ANY boon gained, including outside sources, it’s actually very powerful. This means if there is any pre-buffing, no longer will Necros have to start with 0 LF.

It does NOT need a buff. That said, I hope it doesn’t get nerfed either. At least not with a ICD because they would completely ruin the team-based defense it gives allowing it to fight front lines. It’s the perfect trait.

I hope it doesn’t get nerfed as well but they could put a cap on how many times it can trigger in a short time period. Say 20x in 10 seconds, (ala chilling nova) to keep it from becoming completely insane.

I say this because if you pair it with a staff guardian, or certain types of ele & warrior it could become completely over powered in PvP.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

ronpierce.2760:

If it’s ANY boon gained, including outside sources, it’s actually very powerful. This means if there is any pre-buffing, no longer will Necros have to start with 0 LF.

It does NOT need a buff. That said, I hope it doesn’t get nerfed either. At least not with a ICD because they would completely ruin the team-based defense it gives allowing it to fight front lines. It’s the perfect trait.

I hope it doesn’t get nerfed as well but they could put a cap on how many times it can trigger in a short time period. Say 20x in 10 seconds, (ala chilling nova) to keep it from becoming completely insane.

I say this because if you pair it with a staff guardian, or certain types of ele & warrior it could become completely over powered in PvP.

Several builds will result in near immortality. Tank siphons being one.

Sigmoid.7082:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

ronpierce.2760:

If it’s ANY boon gained, including outside sources, it’s actually very powerful. This means if there is any pre-buffing, no longer will Necros have to start with 0 LF.

It does NOT need a buff. That said, I hope it doesn’t get nerfed either. At least not with a ICD because they would completely ruin the team-based defense it gives allowing it to fight front lines. It’s the perfect trait.

I hope it doesn’t get nerfed as well but they could put a cap on how many times it can trigger in a short time period. Say 20x in 10 seconds, (ala chilling nova) to keep it from becoming completely insane.

I say this because if you pair it with a staff guardian, or certain types of ele & warrior it could become completely over powered in PvP.

Several builds will result in near immortality. Tank siphons being one.

More like lower/est priority. That’s the whole charm in it. It won’t be amazing alone, but in teams it makes us bulky and lower priority without taking the cop-out way of just giving us a billion CC breaks and mobility. It’s actually genius, even if it’s not their intent.

ronpierce.2760:

Sigmoid.7082:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

ronpierce.2760:

If it’s ANY boon gained, including outside sources, it’s actually very powerful. This means if there is any pre-buffing, no longer will Necros have to start with 0 LF.

It does NOT need a buff. That said, I hope it doesn’t get nerfed either. At least not with a ICD because they would completely ruin the team-based defense it gives allowing it to fight front lines. It’s the perfect trait.

I hope it doesn’t get nerfed as well but they could put a cap on how many times it can trigger in a short time period. Say 20x in 10 seconds, (ala chilling nova) to keep it from becoming completely insane.

I say this because if you pair it with a staff guardian, or certain types of ele & warrior it could become completely over powered in PvP.

Several builds will result in near immortality. Tank siphons being one.

More like lower/est priority. That’s the whole charm in it. It won’t be amazing alone, but in teams it makes us bulky and lower priority without taking the cop-out way of just giving us a billion CC breaks and mobility. It’s actually genius, even if it’s not their intent.

You should be able to hold on long enough after for people to respawn and its not like even in those builds the damage will be lower either…

Sigmoid.7082:

ronpierce.2760:

Sigmoid.7082:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

ronpierce.2760:

If it’s ANY boon gained, including outside sources, it’s actually very powerful. This means if there is any pre-buffing, no longer will Necros have to start with 0 LF.

It does NOT need a buff. That said, I hope it doesn’t get nerfed either. At least not with a ICD because they would completely ruin the team-based defense it gives allowing it to fight front lines. It’s the perfect trait.

I hope it doesn’t get nerfed as well but they could put a cap on how many times it can trigger in a short time period. Say 20x in 10 seconds, (ala chilling nova) to keep it from becoming completely insane.

I say this because if you pair it with a staff guardian, or certain types of ele & warrior it could become completely over powered in PvP.

Several builds will result in near immortality. Tank siphons being one.

More like lower/est priority. That’s the whole charm in it. It won’t be amazing alone, but in teams it makes us bulky and lower priority without taking the cop-out way of just giving us a billion CC breaks and mobility. It’s actually genius, even if it’s not their intent.

You should be able to hold on long enough after for people to respawn and its not like even in those builds the damage will be lower either…

I’m not saying it doesn’t need ‘looked at’. I’m saying it doesn’t need a direct ICD because that will ruin it, and the concept is golden.

Beyond that, numbers, maybe a 10-20x cap per 10 seconds or something might be necessary, but it, itself, is exactly what the build needs to uniquely discourage enemies from ALWAYS focusing down the Necro/Reaper.

never said that was an issue.

Sigmoid.7082:

never said that was an issue.

Guess I’m not really sure what you were trying to suggest then, honestly. Do you think it’s too strong or fine, just so I understand your feelings?

ronpierce.2760:

Sigmoid.7082:

never said that was an issue.

Guess I’m not really sure what you were trying to suggest then, honestly. Do you think it’s too strong or fine, just so I understand your feelings?

I think its fine as it is. It allows us to survive long enough in a match to do several things in team fights or on a point. You can hole 3v1 for a long time as well as in team fights totally make focusing you not a point but you still do enough damage through big hits and lots of vulnerability, chill and might that you cant be ignored. It just feels how the class is meant to be which is perfect.

Only issue is that is outshines unholy sanctuary so badly as a stand alone. Then again together you can avoid death for an extremely long time.

I commend Anet on this specs design since it fits every so perfectly while granting us so many options with things that are currently ignored.

ronpierce.2760:

Sigmoid.7082:

ronpierce.2760:

Sigmoid.7082:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

ronpierce.2760:

If it’s ANY boon gained, including outside sources, it’s actually very powerful. This means if there is any pre-buffing, no longer will Necros have to start with 0 LF.

It does NOT need a buff. That said, I hope it doesn’t get nerfed either. At least not with a ICD because they would completely ruin the team-based defense it gives allowing it to fight front lines. It’s the perfect trait.

I hope it doesn’t get nerfed as well but they could put a cap on how many times it can trigger in a short time period. Say 20x in 10 seconds, (ala chilling nova) to keep it from becoming completely insane.

I say this because if you pair it with a staff guardian, or certain types of ele & warrior it could become completely over powered in PvP.

Several builds will result in near immortality. Tank siphons being one.

More like lower/est priority. That’s the whole charm in it. It won’t be amazing alone, but in teams it makes us bulky and lower priority without taking the cop-out way of just giving us a billion CC breaks and mobility. It’s actually genius, even if it’s not their intent.

You should be able to hold on long enough after for people to respawn and its not like even in those builds the damage will be lower either…

I’m not saying it doesn’t need ‘looked at’. I’m saying it doesn’t need a direct ICD because that will ruin it, and the concept is golden.

Beyond that, numbers, maybe a 10-20x cap per 10 seconds or something might be necessary, but it, itself, is exactly what the build needs to uniquely discourage enemies from ALWAYS focusing down the Necro/Reaper.

as long as necro’s own buffs are excluded from those 10seconds because you can stack 20 might stacks in 10 seconds on your own if you just auto attack in shroud.

and then again we shouldn’t be talking about nerfs already when the stuff isn’t even out yet.

and i applause them for this because it’s a perfect frontliner, designed after the gw1 dervish and a mix between avatar of balthatar and avatar of grenth.

These combos hadn’t even occurred to me. Wow, that is some great sustain in death shroud. Not to mention shroud 1 generates life force as a baseline feature.

Roe.3679:

These combos hadn’t even occurred to me. Wow, that is some great sustain in death shroud. Not to mention shroud 1 generates life force as a baseline feature.

There are cases where it can get out of hand, so that’s why I’m worried it will get nerfed. BUT I want it to be handled properly, an ICD will ruin it into uselessness. A 20x per 10 seconds max eh, can be a little more reasonable I guess. Still might be too much but at least it caps it a bit. Maybe 15…

Okay so like say you have spectral grasp. Because of the way Chilling Force “double dips” with blighter’s Boon, and using Death Spiral hits so many times.

If you Spectral grasp someone (15% LF) and use Death Spiral, which gives 12% LF, each hit would be hitting a chilled enemy giving 1% LF and 1% more LF for each of the mights stacked, so 24% LF on top of the 15% for about 39% LF in a 2-part combo, which lasts about 1.5-2 seconds. Especially if you can pull this off on a guy’s pet to ensure the LF, since the damage itself isn’t a big deal.

Now, if you run Sigil of Strength you’d also be getting an additional 1 might every ~ 1.8 sec on average which would make that combo a nice, round 40% LF, maybe 41%.

The potential is fairly high. Hence why I do think it will need a 10-20x per 10 cap.

But under no circumstance should this be considered to have an ICD. And really, the problem is only the LF portion is potentially problematic. So if it was possible to limit the LF part but leave the healing part alone, that would be ideal since the small heal… really isn’t THAT amazing considering DS would be blocking out things like Regen and support healing at that time, it sort of just makes up for our bad synergy in teams.

Also, as said. Yeah, Chilling Force having a 1 sec ICD (PER TARGET) would be a good fix to this type of issue, as well, maybe even the best fix, realistically.

Also, I’d like confirmation if a single application of 2+ might would be counted individually, or if they would be counted as a single boon gain if they were from the same sources, such as FGJ!.

With Blighter’s Boon and siphons healing through DS, I could see Spite/Blood Magic/Reaper becoming an incredible bunker build.

Spite would give primarily Reaper’s Might (might on AA, no ICD so about 5-6 procs every three seconds) and Siphoned Power (Might when hitting at target with less than 50% for another proc) Master and GM trait would be a free for all, but any of them (except maybe Axe Mastery) would work, even Spiteful Spirit (as Axe 3 does grant retribution for another BB proc)

Blood Magic would be loads of life siphon, which will heal through Reaper’s Shroud. Since they seem to be doing rework on it, no clue on what traits to take, but if Bloodthirst, Vampiric Precision and Vampiric Aura (which sounded like GM trait material, hopefully replacing Deathly Invigoration) can all be taking together, that’s what you should do.

With Reaper, it’s Chilling Nova, Chilling Force and Blighter’s Boon. Chilling Nova sounds like it should help refresh chill on the guy you crit, and Chilling force would need a pretty big ICD nerf to not be preferable with BB compared to the GS trait.

Weapons would probably be Greatsword and either staff (for chill and Condition transfer) or X/Focus (Focus would provide chill and multiple applications of regen for BB procs to regain LF) Heal would be Consume Conditions for condi removal or “Your Soul Is Mine!” for life force Utilities would be “You Are All Weaklings!” for might stacks and stunbreak (and if it really is the stunbreak, it would have the fastest recharge for Necros by a mile) and two of your choice (note that minions siphon health for you with one of the minor Blood Magic traits, so “Rise!” would be a good choice even without Death Nova) Elite is “Chilled To The Bone!” Regardless if it stays resistance or changes to stability.

Amulet would be Magi (if BB and enough of the post-spec update life siphon traits scale on healing power) or Knights (if they don’t) some Precision would be needing to proc Vampiric Precision reliably, though if you want to pick something else in place of that trait, you could do Soldiers. Rune set would be Vampirism. Sigils would be some mix of Ice, Battle, Strength (if you go with an amulet with precision) Leeching, and/or Energy.

Basic strat would be keeping your foes chilled and the boons incoming, either to build Life Force for Reaper’s Shroud or Health while in Reaper’s Shroud. Mesmers would probably find you unkillable, since illusions mean more targets to cleave which means more life siphon and Reaper’s Might targets for BB. Engineers would have trouble keeping chill off, and though multiple blinds and spamable daze from thieves will be a pain, “Chilled To The Bone!”, GS 4 and Infusing Terror should help counter those strats, keeping it to at least an even fight. LB Rangers would be you biggest weakness, especially if they catch you low on life force, as even though their pet is an extra health source, long range burst with no projectile blocks or reflects will hurt quite a bit, though closing the gap with Infusing Terror might even the playing field. DH Guardians might be a challenge to, depending on how much damage that their longbow can output (though traps makes me think that they’ll be more popular as a more offensive alternative to the current guardian bunker) Shoutbows, D/D eles and Medi Guards might be a struggle (at least, as they are now, not going to take the time to guess how good they’ll be post spec with Celestial amulet getting nerfed and at least Ele having a couple of the meta traits becoming mutually exclusive) with their multiple condi cleanses and active defenses, but if you can keep alive long enough to keep at it, they’d run out of cleanses and energy eventually…

Why focus? Warhorn seems way better with chilling force. Warhorn 5, will pulse 5 might per second before auto attacks are even factored in. Even if they add a 1 second ICD in chilling force, the timing would be perfect with locust swarm.

Also leap finisher! Fire aura for might whenever you get hit. Chaos Armor for random defensive boons. Combo with teammates ftw!

Ooo, hadn’t thought of that.

Question is what the MH would be. Axe might work, but Axe Mastery isn’t worth taking anymore, though that might change. Scepter is only really good with a condi build, and that would either mean dropping Spite (no reaper’s might) or Blood Magic (no extra life siphons)

I guess you could make a condi alternative by dropping Spite for Curses and picking up Chilling Darkness (GS 4 pulses blind, might also pick up Well of Darkness), Path of Corruption/Wail of Doom, and Parasitic Contagion, then go Scepter/Warhorn for the second set and depend on Chilling Force exclusively for might to trigger BB. Might even be the better alternative if BB gets a proc every X seconds limit or, even worst, an ICD.

I’m personally really into condi scythe which no one else seems to be thinking too much about.

Lingering curse+warhorn+dhummfire scythe. Curses, SR, Reaper.

For power builds though, I would actually think dagger. Blood, SR, Reaper and a bit more of a bruiser/valkery build with Death perception to guarantee crits for PvP or Spite, SR, Reaper for PvE. Maybe replace Spite or SR with blood if vampiric aura is good enough.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Why focus? Warhorn seems way better with chilling force. Warhorn 5, will pulse 5 might per second before auto attacks are even factored in. Even if they add a 1 second ICD in chilling force, the timing would be perfect with locust swarm.

Also leap finisher! Fire aura for might whenever you get hit. Chaos Armor for random defensive boons. Combo with teammates ftw!

Focus 5 is a boon rip and chill on a low CD + focus 4 which bounces for very high LF on top of hitting, gaining 2% more LF per hit, it also gives you Regen which gives 1% LF on inward-bounces. They both also have much shorter cooldowns, so more room for error.

ronpierce.2760:

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Why focus? Warhorn seems way better with chilling force. Warhorn 5, will pulse 5 might per second before auto attacks are even factored in. Even if they add a 1 second ICD in chilling force, the timing would be perfect with locust swarm.

Also leap finisher! Fire aura for might whenever you get hit. Chaos Armor for random defensive boons. Combo with teammates ftw!

Focus 5 is a boon rip and chill on a low CD + focus 4 which bounces for very high LF on top of hitting, gaining 2% more LF per hit, it also gives you Regen which gives 1% LF on inward-bounces. They both also have much shorter cooldowns, so more room for error.

I guess I prefer the pulsing cripple attack to cover chill and might from that as well. Less room for error? Locust swarm can’t be stripped and has high uptime + swiftness. I don’t get the less room for error.

Boon rip is nice but I guess I was thinking the much shorter CD and aoe ability of the new DS#2 would be better suited at boon ripping for PvP when traited. PvE wise, it’s seemed an obvious choice.

I think some of you might be overestimating the sustain even with constant boon application. Especially considering the boon application requires active play. Therefore stunlocking and bursting will still break through this sustain.

Sustain is just sustain. It wont prevent you from dieing if someone tries to focus you. If the sustain is too much then they should just reduce the heal per boon. Adding any sort of cap is a poor way to restrict a traits power.

Not sure its over estimated since in your shroud you take less damage and will take less again from chilled people which we put out all the time. With most of the siphon traits and then blighters you will gain 1% lifeforce 2~4 stacks of might and around 500 hp a swing in RS to your main health bar VS one target and it scales with the more people you are hitting. We are even hard to lock down as well.

Theory but you can sit in reaper shroud and heal yourself to full before it ends from all the LF gain when you are in it.

Assuming you can stay in DS for long enough though. And its a pointless discussion. The concept of the trait is good. If its too strong they will reduce the healing. Problem solved.

spoj.9672:

Assuming you can stay in DS for long enough though. And its a pointless discussion. The concept of the trait is good. If its too strong they will reduce the healing. Problem solved.

I full expect them to act on " leaching it a bit strong right now so we may lower it" and " this number may be a little high" and lower them all.

Considering they frequently balance with “Best case scenario”, I’m honestly very worried that Reaper will be in a broken state before we get to it.

Sigmoid.7082:

spoj.9672:

Assuming you can stay in DS for long enough though. And its a pointless discussion. The concept of the trait is good. If its too strong they will reduce the healing. Problem solved.

I full expect them to act on " leaching it a bit strong right now so we may lower it" and " this number may be a little high" and lower them all.

I would rather that than put ICD’s or a cap on it. Anyway you dont know what will happen. Numbers are subject to change. I think its important just to emphasize that the concept with no ICD or cap should remain as it is.

I think adding a 1 sec ICD or a max cap per 10 seconds on Chilling Force would fix most of the issues with Bligther’s boon. It SHOULD be great with support of a team, and should be decent with your own abilities. The only thing that makes it get out of hand as a solo trait is Chilling Force. If they added an ICD to Chilling Force they could also make the might last a bit longer.

That would butcher chilling force just to reduce blighter boon. I cant agree to that at all.

At the moment chilling force does the same as forceful greatsword. But requires perma chill. If you cap that or add an ICD it totally ruins the trait. Warriors can maintain perma 25 might and share it with the group when using phalanx + forceful greatsword. I think we should be able to atleast maintain perma selfish might if we can perma chill (probably wont be as easy as it sounds).

spoj.9672:

That would butcher chilling force just to reduce blighter boon. I cant agree to that at all.

At the moment chilling force does the same as forceful greatsword. But requires perma chill. If you cap that or add an ICD it totally ruins the trait.

Refer to empowering might, the trait that is seldomly used by AH guards because it has no use otherwise ( the duration makes it so its capped at 5 stacks tops unless you have boon duration AND ridiculous crit).

Yeah exactly. I would rather not see another weak trait like empowering might.

If it was a longer Might, with a 1 sec ICD per target (forgot that part) and 1% lf, that would by far not be a “useless” nor weak trait and it would certainly fix a lot of the BB issues.

Thing about Forceful Greatsword though, Warriors, last I checked, do not have a Greatsword skill that could have 55 separate hits+whirl bolts in 2 seconds.

That being said, I wonder if the real concern the devs have with that trait is the Life force gained. Never mind the might (especially since Reaper’s Might with the Reaper’s Shroud AA can maintain max might hitting just one guy, never mind three.) Use Soul Spiral against a mass of chilled foes, and that’s over half your life force bar refilled in a single attack.

Or Death Spiral: Hits 6 times on up to 3 targets, for an additional 18% life force, which doesn’t seem like much until you remember that Death Spiral already generates 36% LF under ideal conditions for total of 54% LF gain, on a skill with a 10sec base cooldown.

Numbers like that, you wouldn’t leave RS because you have to, you leave only because you want to.

Foefaller.1082:

Thing about Forceful Greatsword though, Warriors, last I checked, do not have a Greatsword skill that could have 55 separate hits+whirl bolts in 2 seconds.

That being said, I wonder if the real concern the devs have with that trait is the Life force gained. Never mind the might (especially since Reaper’s Might with the Reaper’s Shroud AA can maintain max might hitting just one guy, never mind three.) Use Soul Spiral against a mass of chilled foes, and that’s over half your life force bar refilled in a single attack.

Or Death Spiral: Hits 6 times on up to 3 targets, for an additional 18% life force, which doesn’t seem like much until you remember that Death Spiral already generates 36% LF under ideal conditions for total of 54% LF gain, on a skill with a 10sec base cooldown.

Numbers like that, you wouldn’t leave RS because you have to, you leave only because you want to.

They could simply tone down the LF gain and fix it that way…And this time they didn’T add “we feel this is pretty strong, maybe too strong right now”, so i have somewhat hope it will stay as-is. Maybe they finally realized that with DS being basically our only (and not scaling) defense, it better be a kitten strong one…

LOL, nope.

Doesnt matter that warriors cant hit as much. They still max the might permanently. So the only arguement is the lifeforce generation.

Then again. base GS doesnt have as many hits as reaper shroud. And they might just make chilling force life force portion not work in reaper shroud. They could always tone down death spiral base lifeforce. And i really dont think we should be focusing on ideal unrealistic situations again. Remember all the targets need to be chilled. Thats not going to be too easy in PvP and WvW due to people spreading out and cleansing. In PvE it doesnt really matter.

Foefaller.1082:

Thing about Forceful Greatsword though, Warriors, last I checked, do not have a Greatsword skill that could have 55 separate hits+whirl bolts in 2 seconds.

That being said, I wonder if the real concern the devs have with that trait is the Life force gained. Never mind the might (especially since Reaper’s Might with the Reaper’s Shroud AA can maintain max might hitting just one guy, never mind three.) Use Soul Spiral against a mass of chilled foes, and that’s over half your life force bar refilled in a single attack.

Or Death Spiral: Hits 6 times on up to 3 targets, for an additional 18% life force, which doesn’t seem like much until you remember that Death Spiral already generates 36% LF under ideal conditions for total of 54% LF gain, on a skill with a 10sec base cooldown.

Numbers like that, you wouldn’t leave RS because you have to, you leave only because you want to.

The true question is how often will you be able to land 3second duration ability on 5 targets in a 300 radius and 40 sec cooldown. The answer will proably be not often enough to justify a big nerf.

spoj.9672:

Doesnt matter that warriors cant hit as much. They still max the might permanently. So the only arguement is the lifeforce generation. Then again. base GS doesnt have as many hits as reaper shroud. And they might just make chilling force life force portion not work in reaper shroud.

The LF gain in reapers shroud isn’t the issue. The issue has been its synergy with BB. Multi-hitting a target with chill basically gives 2 LF per hit, which ramps up fast. Like the new screw driver can give 24 LF Iin 1.5 seconds. Axe#2 is somewhat similar. The DS life force isn’t nearly as bad considering it is only 1% LF and then some healing and the multi hit there has a 40 second CD.

Unfortunately the synergy WILL lead to one or the other being nerfed, and id rather the master trait that doesn’t have any spectacular purpose get nerfed rather than the GM trait that gives us the ability to front-line in a team.

The master trait has a big purpose. Just because you dont personally see it as important doesnt mean it isnt. If the lifeforce of the two traits combined is the problem. Then thats what needs to be addressed. But any global nerf to chilling force will break the trait. I would not mind the life force portion of chilling force to be removed in fairness.

But also remember you are still talking in ideal situations where all foes have to be chilled and you need to cleave. The only time this would be broken is in PvP and WvW. But how likely are all these criteria going to be met? Not very likely. And its not like it makes the class immortal in these situations either.

This is still all “Ideal circumstance” Theorycrafting, which while I’m sure Anet will end up balancing around anyway, isn’t what will be realistically happening in PvP.

I keep pulling up the exact same example:
The reaper has all this chill and all this sustain (against packed groups), but what is he going to do against the ranger who is blapping him at 1500 away?

Or even in typical team fight, 3v3, mybe with some turrets/pets/clones around, sure you might be making 15% LF per auto chain, but 3 people will focus fire you down a hell of a lot faster then your team mates who have true damage mitigation through invulns/evades/etc.

War Mourner.5168:

This is still all “Ideal circumstance” Theorycrafting, which while I’m sure Anet will end up balancing around anyway, isn’t what will be realistically happening in PvP.

I keep pulling up the exact same example:
The reaper has all this chill and all this sustain (against packed groups), but what is he going to do against the ranger who is blapping him at 1500 away?

Well, this is all “ideal circumstances,” but… Hide behind a wall and force him to get closer? Not every fight in PvP is in an open field with nowhere to hide. In fact, those kinds of fights tend to be the exception, even on maps like Legacy of the Foefire and Battle of Kylho.

Or even in typical team fight, 3v3, mybe with some turrets/pets/clones around, sure you might be making 15% LF per auto chain, but 3 people will focus fire you down a hell of a lot faster then your team mates who have true damage mitigation through invulns/evades/etc.

I didn’t know Necros can’t dodge. Anyway, Executioner’s Strike + Death’s Charge would give you 10% damage reduction from Frost Aura, plus another 15% from anyone Chilled thanks to Cold Shoulder (which will always include any hit after the first thanks to Frost Aura’s Chilled effect, barring condi removal skills/procs) “You Are All Weaklings!” has 6s Weakness which would be an aggregated 25% damage reduction (more if they have a high crit chance) Not to mention Nightfall is going to be a mini Well of Darkness with cripple. Also, and this is just me mind you, any Reaper build I make that’s built to bunker/sustain will almost certainly be using Blood Magic for the health siphon traits that will heal through RS, so that I can actually use my life force as an active shield to protect me while I recover my real health bar via siphons, rather than a last-ditch “second health bar” that is only delaying the inevitable.

Honestly let the devs decide if things are too strong. Asking for nerfs now is only asking for us to be over nerfed and continue to have survivability problems in the future. Im sure noone wants that right?

None of the traits look too strong to me in realistic situations. There are plenty of other even stronger traits and skills on other classes that are strong in really common situations. Why are we so desperate to get ourselves nerfed? It doesnt make sense. Weve been in a terrible state for so long. I dont understand why anyone would ask for nerfs at this point. Especially when the devs have stated numbers are subject to change.