Guild Wars 2

Blood Healing
5% of all damage from bleeding also heals the necromancer.

I know it seems overpowered with epidemic, however for what they want us to bring to the fight, I think its balanced. Even though it could be ridiculous in some situations… so can other classes evades/stealths/invulnerabilities.

We need to be able to stand on our two feet.

1) I think it should be a PvP and maybe WvW change only. PvE we don’t need sustain
2) Numbers can be changed. Yes we need to look at the idea of Epidemic, but frankly it is so insanely rare to get a good Epidemic to hit high amounts of bleeding that sticks.

I said it on the other siphon already, take current vampiric numbers, put it one proc pre second for each bleed you have up (so 25-625 heal pre second depending on your uptime), doesnt matter what enemy its on, but that trait would also negate all other necro siphons (not to be a 20k burst healing machine like some other semi overpowered attrition class *cough wink nudge).

Sign me up….

Lets think…. 20 stacks of bleeding maintained on a mob… with 140 average damage per tick (conservatively), would be… 2800 damager per second, or 140 health per second. Even if I was to epidemic that to 5 additional targets, it would only go up to 840 health per second for a few second before it would start to drop off… I would say pacing that with the siphon traits would make for an insane sustain build for condition necros.

Considering I am COMPLETELY geared to bleed, and this is a best case scenario, I actually don’t see this as overpowered at all. I think the problem would be where do you put this trait, and how well could a non-condition player actually make use of it?

If I was in a power build, at about 60 damage per bleed, with say 7 bleeds on the target, that would be 420 damage per second, or 21 health per second. Very underwhelming.

Great idea though…. I certainly support it. Unfortunately I would never want to spend more than 2 seconds in DS for 2/3 to avoid screwing my own healing.

Alternatively you could adjust it so the bleeding generates life force. Since you can’t really sustain bleeds in DS, it wouldn’t create an infinite DS build, and it would allow condition classes a desperately needed life force source.

I really like this idea. I run a hybrid build, so my bleeds only hit around 100 per tick. But that would still be 5 health/second/bleed stack. Which would be nice, but not too overpowered.

It could help Necromancers become on par with other preferred classes.

One of the best ideas I ever read on this forum,

This would benefit power necros, (because most of them go 30 into spite and therefore 30% condition duration) and condition necros,

This will fit perfect with the idea of an attrition class,

There we got the idea for the change of hemophilia (a trait that is utterly useless for most full builds in curses).

I think it’s a bit OP. Why will you ever use vampiric builds, if you can sit there and spam bleeds at range doing damage and regaining health?

and this would not really help any non bleed builds much…

To put it bluntly, I think this idea is way to OP and I’m sur most of the Necro communauty understand this.
Plus, this idea will be strenghten by the vampisms traits from blood magic and, even if they feel underwhelming, they already provide some ok-ish sustain… The more I think of this the more I dislike the idea. Giving a boost on our Ok side while we’ve lack in a lot of area seem inappropriate.
The idea : “the more I dps, the more sustain i gain” is an idea that we can’t allow in a game. Dps should be trad for sustain, you shouldn’t gain sustain with dps.

If there are things that dev should work on (sustain wise), it should be the whole “healing power” thing and the way it work with Necromancers ability.

Dadnir.5038:

To put it bluntly, I think this idea is way to OP and I’m sur most of the Necro communauty understand this.
Plus, this idea will be strenghten by the vampisms traits from blood magic and, even if they feel underwhelming, they already provide some ok-ish sustain… The more I think of this the more I dislike the idea. Giving a boost on our Ok side while we’ve lack in a lot of area seem inappropriate.
The idea : “the more I dps, the more sustain i gain” is an idea that we can’t allow in a game. Dps should be trad for sustain, you shouldn’t gain sustain with dps.

If there are things that dev should work on (sustain wise), it should be the whole “healing power” thing and the way it work with Necromancers ability.

a) shammy gear (condi, tough, healing power) is exactly that.
b) As i suggested before make siphon traits mutually exclusive (siphon on normal hit, siphon on crit or siphon on condi application/condi tick), it would pretty much clear all overpowered siphon effects like press demo eles had with AC weapons at night; the only siphoning that should stack is well siphons since its grandmaster.

Dadnir.5038:

Plus, this idea will be strenghten by the vampisms traits from blood magic and, even if they feel underwhelming, they already provide some ok-ish sustain..

No they don’t.

They provide bugger all sustain. It’s laughable…

Yeah… even mentioning vampiric in this makes you lose all credibility to me…

I think its a fine and balanced trait.

I started with 5%, but I could even go to 10% and it be fine.

Hey guys, here is what i’m playing in WvW since already 2 month (In Eu T2 and T1, and I never felt weak in 1v1 or 1vX. And In zerg, sometime you even feel godly with the massive amout of regen you gain) :

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQRBHhhu1IjWleymmG/mCQqA2TP42bxjPgM9h1B-jUyAYrAhuAxXwZvioxW2KiGreBTdKkqhjs/QINGAzA-w

It’s a pure vampirism build. You know why I tried this? It’s simply because I though vampirism on Necro was crap. So I gave it a try just to see how it would work. At first, when i saw the laughable numbers I said WTF is this Sh**! Then I used it in real fight and yes it’s viable! It’s Ok-ish. Not overpowered. Maybe it would be good to up it but, It’s not a total garbage.

All you seem to want is an overpowered trait that give the already Necro strong point (condition damage) even more interest. Balance wise this would be only a big mistake. And like I said, this suggestion won’t answer the real problems on Necromancers, It wil just strenghten something that’s already strong while there are tons of weak point that should be strenghten.

“a) shammy gear (condi, tough, healing power) is exactly that.” Absolutely not! His trait create sustain from condition damage not from healing power. You won’t take a shammy gear with this trait because the healing power will just be a pure wast. You will just take a classical Condi/prec/tough that will be way better cause you can have bleeding on crit, making your sustain even more efficient. Like I said if you want a better sustain you should trade damage for it, that all. The whole “% of damage into heal” is a bad idea balance wise.

PS.: Daecollo, you’re a well known troll that even said on warriors forum that vampiric was OP. Are you backing on your words here?

Vampiric is crap. When did I ever say it was OP?

I like the idea in principle but I don’t want to see 10 little green ticks on my character every single second, if they could find a way to stack all the bleed heals per second into one siphon number, that would be peachy.

Daecollo.9578:

Necromancer’s get 110 health every time there minions hit something, 50 health every time they hit something, and another 50 health every time they critical, and 1036 health every 2 seconds from there minion hits.

They DO have high passive healing. Your argument is VERY invalid.

Sorry my bad you didn’t said that it was “OP”, you said that Necromancer had High passive healing because of it. My mistake!

Don’t get me wrong Daecollo, I’d really like to see some improvement on the Necro but this suggestion can’t make it. If you had said :

Blood Healing
All tics from bleeding also heals the necromancer by 1% of his healing power.

I would have said : “Yeah that’s the way to go!” or “Shut up and take my money!” . Necromancers needs diversity. Most of us are already to tied to condition damage. Making it even stronger would just bring us down.

If you take the Necromancer as a whole, not seeing at other profession, you’ll see that there are already things that ain’t well balanced. For exemple, let’s talk about our weapons:

We’ve got staff : aoe damage (condition wise and power wise), combo finisher, combo field, aoe boon provider, aoe condition transfer, long range.

other weapons : mostly single target, medium to close range, no combo field, no combo finisher.

It create the “I must have a staff” situation and that’s a situation that is imbalanced. If you have imbalanced things in a profession, it destroy diversity and when you lack diversity, your profession tend to be predictable and you end being easy to counter.

And what you suggest will lead to the “I must have Blood healing” situation plus “I must have a staff” and then, your second set of weapon (scepter/dagger) and most of your traits will be predictable, even your stuff and food will be easy to guess. And that’s a dead end because :

1- possibility: You end up unkillable with beast damage → Nerf bat
2- possibility: There is a type of build that is the perfect counter to us → whine “We’ve got no diversity!” “We are to easy to deal with!” “See how other classes laugh on our dead body.”

Oh! and if you want some more Imbalanced improvement to add on another thread I can give you my favourite :

Dagger autoattack should cleave <- It would be really really imba! I’d enjoy it to my heart content.

Dagger has too much damage to cleave, maybe axe should cleave, that sounds better (ranged, low damage, like trident 1)

Dagger does LESS damage then hammers from other classes. And hammers can cleave up to three targets.

Necromancer Daggers should also hit and cleave three targets. However the animation should be a bit different.

Considering Necromancer Daggers are more of a focusing tool for their magicks, cleave could work. Although I’d agree that we might want to look at damage vs. targets struck, in order to balance it out.
As for this thread’s original idea, I actually like the basic concept of fueling my own power as the enemy weakens, however, it might actually work better scaled with a percentage of Healing Power. This’d open up some interesting build specs for Necromancers in general, considering Lifesteal sure as sin doesn’t scale with H. Power.

Too powerful, and make only 1 viable build/play style for necro.

Also our 66 chance to bleed on crit, is a 1 sec bleed. With 25 stacks per target, necro’s just push other player stacks off the target for a max of 2 ticks. (1 tick unless con duration max cap)

Dev on the last state of the game, said blood magic vamp/siphon is totally useless… So let’s hope they work out something that fix’s it for non-bleeders aswell as bleeders.

They also, were hinting at working out a fix for heals being useless to anyone who use’s DShroud defensively. Which they seem to think is what makes us soo powerful…

Bweaty.9187:

Too powerful, and make only 1 viable build/play style for necro.

Also our 66 chance to bleed on crit, is a 1 sec bleed. With 25 stacks per target, necro’s just push other player stacks off the target for a max of 2 ticks. (1 tick unless con duration max cap)

Dev on the last state of the game, said blood magic vamp/siphon is totally useless… So let’s hope they work out something that fix’s it for non-bleeders aswell as bleeders.

They also, were hinting at working out a fix for heals being useless to anyone who use’s DShroud defensively. Which they seem to think is what makes us soo powerful…

Explain how it is too powerful… ?

Would love blood healing to be added for cond necros.

Theme-wise and at a high level, I think it’s a neat idea. I like the idea that the longer the fight goes (more stacks of bleeds) the more pressure is put on the opponent and the necro gets stronger. But it does seem like it would make an already popular necro build (if not the most popular) even more popular, and goes against the idea of more build diversity.

I had made a similar suggestion here. The difference being that I was recommending the Hemophilia trait would siphon life with each stack of bleeding on an opponent. Either way, we could use something to improve our sustain. The recent promises by the devs that we’ll be getting improvements in this area bodes well for us. My blood necro is patiently waiting for the patch which delivers on that promise.

Daecollo.9578:

Explain how it is too powerful… ?

Ok, say each bleed ticks for around 125, no sig’s/might or food etc. 1v1 your going to maintain 150-175 heals per sec. All good.

But, say WvW 20 vs 20.
Pressing epidemic will get you healing 3.125k per sec.
10 Points Blood Magic, VI, Life Transfers heals nearby allies:
62.5k Heals per sec, 0 healing power.

Bweaty.9187:

Daecollo.9578:

Explain how it is too powerful… ?

Ok, say each bleed ticks for around 125, no sig’s/might or food etc. 1v1 your going to maintain 150-175 heals per sec. All good.

But, say WvW 20 vs 20.
Pressing epidemic will get you healing 3.125k per sec.
10 Points Blood Magic, VI, Life Transfers heals nearby allies:
62.5k Heals per sec, 0 healing power.

Epidemic has an AOE cap.
It only heals for 5-10% of your bleed, even with 5 people bleeding that is only about 350 hp/s.

Now if it was 100% and not 5-10% I could understand, however..

And, Bweaty,

Blood magic VI work with DS4, nothing else. But, your point is good. Healing should be based on healing power not on condition damage.

Eh! I’ve got a good one to replace Siphoned power ! You gain 5s stack of might for each bleed stack on you (can occur every 10s)

This could very easily become overpowered. To have it even as a major trait in the Blood Magic line, and if they did end up making all the lifesiphoning scale with healing power, you could potentially build a virtually indestructible Apothecary’s Necromancer since your sustain is being bolstered by both your condition damage and healing power.

I disagree with this entirely.

Equinox.4195:

This could very easily become overpowered. To have it even as a major trait in the Blood Magic line, and if they did end up making all the lifesiphoning scale with healing power, you could potentially build a virtually indestructible Apothecary’s Necromancer since your sustain is being bolstered by both your condition damage and healing power.

I disagree with this entirely.

I love when people disagree even without reading,

We are supposed to outlast our opponents, and this is one of the best inputs i ever read on the forum,

Rennoko.5731:

Sign me up….

Lets think…. 20 stacks of bleeding maintained on a mob… with 140 average damage per tick (conservatively), would be… 2800 damager per second, or 140 health per second. Even if I was to epidemic that to 5 additional targets, it would only go up to 840 health per second for a few second before it would start to drop off…

Bhawb.7408:

2) Numbers can be changed. Yes we need to look at the idea of Epidemic, but frankly it is so insanely rare to get a good Epidemic to hit high amounts of bleeding that sticks.