I use it in my pve build to get an extra 4 stacks of bleed onto my target (with a good duration), refill my LF bar so i can life blast a few more times, and in general, ensure that I had 100% LF at all times for when I got in over my head while out enjoying myself. So for me, it will be a small increase in damage, but a decrease in survivability in clinch situations.
I don’t do any form of pvp so I won’t comment on that state.
What I am most sad about is how it doesn’t even resemble the BiP we learned to love/hate in GW1. It was a stretch before, now I think it should be renamed, as its a farce.
Edit: Forgot the last sentence in 1st paragraph. Added to finish the thought.
IMO it’s a huge burst buff! using it with plague signet for more bleeds and add 3 more might stacks and numbers are poping like hell. as for spvp, nice dmg for hybrid condition and power and LF is no issue.
I have been crying all over these forums since day 1 for the devs to give us some way to make condition damage also feel a little more “bursty”. While so many of you are in disagreement with this change , I welcome it. Was it a change that I am 100% satisfied with? No, mostly because I feel the power increase should of gone on a scepter ability instead of a utility ability. I also don’t think changing BiP to no longer give life force was a wise choice.
Perhaps some of the changes they have down the road for us will compliment these changes we are seeing now.
Please keep in mind Anet if you have a design scope in mind, now would be a good time to share it with us. The Necro forums are not filled with patient smiling people.
BiP has been a staple of my gameplay right there beside Epidemic. This change is not good. The slight gain in DPS does not justify losing the lifeforce loss. I was already on the fence about Necro in WvW, feeling like most of my damage was fluff damage. I enjoyed spreading debuffs but even at 12+ stacks of bleed it isn’t a huge amount of pressure. Time to start power leveling an Ele. (Which I hate. They are like the justin bieber of casters)
The problem with the duration for BiP is that they seemed to of balanced it around how much condition damage was average for level 80 necros. Since the skill was changed to make builds feel more burst like, wouldn’t it of made sense to just shorten the duration time for the bleed associated with BiP and thus make it a true bleed burst skill along with power gain?
@Teknomancer
I agree. It would actually make it a skill that (gasp) works well on both levels of its intended use! As it stands though, the bleeds are just not worth their weight to have the damage spread over 30secs.
Fort Aspenwood~ Archmage Logan(80 Necro)
(“Big Hat”)Praise the Sun!
Seems to me this isn’t really about the change to BiP and more about generating LF in sPvP. Personally I think they should buff Signet of Undeath to apply its effect out of combat and reduce the timer on it, I don’t think a passive that could top off our LF every couple of minutes would be OP by any stretch of the imagination. It’d be mostly irrelevant in PvE and WvW where things die enough to fill our LF faster than the passive could.
Levetty.1279 – No it actually made warlocks useful for shattering and yeah 0 cd on a projectile absorbing phantasam that did around 1k damage (mind you its a defensive ability) is totally balanced and intended if you had PHaste and Wardens Feeback.
Also no, Epidemic has a 600 radius, still a 1200 range, the bug was if you casted epidemic of a high ground, you it could have up to 3000~ range no matter how small the high ground was.
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
I really love this change, we have more options for power-based builds in every patch they make.
I tried a power build based on BiP and Reaper’s Might and it was fun hitting guardians and warriors with Lich Form’s auto-attack around 3k
I really love this change, we have more options for power-based builds in every patch they make.
I tried a power build based on BiP and Reaper’s Might and it was fun hitting guardians and warriors with Lich Form’s auto-attack around 3k
If that makes you happy, perhaps knowing that with Close to Death, you can churn out 4.1k lifeblast crits would make you ecstatic.
What I feel?
I feel that skill incredibly powerful, it actually stands out from the average useless Necro skills.
Seriously, it applies 2 bleed (+2 on you transferible) stacks plus gives you 10 stack of might which actually increases the condition damage of an amazing 300 points (30 damage per tick if I’m not wrong).
Who can say that skill is useless or it is a nerf? I think that now it is a must on every Burst/Condition build bar.
What I feel?
I feel that skill incredibly powerful, it actually stands out from the average useless Necro skills.
Seriously, it applies 2 bleed (+2 on you transferible) stacks plus gives you 10 stack of might which actually increases the condition damage of an amazing 300 points (30 damage per tick if I’m not wrong).
Who can say that skill is useless or it is a nerf? I think that now it is a must on every Burst/Condition build bar.
You are wrong. The Math has been done to death. Its 350 condition damage, and you only get 5% of that. so its 17.5 more damage a tick.
Also no such thing as burst conditions. That just how conditions work.
Popping in and out of DS is what made the Necro… well… a Necro. Competing special skills with, say, the Guardian or Ranger, DS is otherwise very underwhelming without the ability to use it when needed. Perhaps start off matches with full life force and I’d have a different overview, or increase the power of the 4 attached skills to make the added climb for life force more meaningful (but they’ve already nerfed them several times during development).
I only forsee more nerfs on the horizon.
Alcione Enerjak – Human Necromancer (Level 80)
Guild Leader – The Hakaishin [GODS] (Sorrow’s Furnace)
Website: http://www.hakaishinlegion.com
Its one of those changes that makes you scratch your head. Instead of FIXING obvious bugs like pet UI/pathing/healing, they go and change a skill that nobody thought was a problem and “fix” a skill that was our ace in the hole. Why don’t they just limit the number of targets Epidemic hits while they’re at it, because THAT would be important=)
TBH, we should get power AND LF, so its actually useful in PvE and PvP. Nah, that would be so OP.
So yeah, it changed my feelings. It showed their priorities are FUBAR.
What I feel?
I feel that skill incredibly powerful, it actually stands out from the average useless Necro skills.
Seriously, it applies 2 bleed (+2 on you transferible) stacks plus gives you 10 stack of might which actually increases the condition damage of an amazing 300 points (30 damage per tick if I’m not wrong).
Who can say that skill is useless or it is a nerf? I think that now it is a must on every Burst/Condition build bar.
You are wrong. The Math has been done to death. Its 350 condition damage, and you only get 5% of that. so its 17.5 more damage a tick.
Also no such thing as burst conditions. That just how conditions work.
I meant Burst or Condition, not both xP
However 17.5 more damage per tick isn’t insignificant, it can make a difference considering how fast bleed ticks.
What I feel?
I feel that skill incredibly powerful, it actually stands out from the average useless Necro skills.
Seriously, it applies 2 bleed (+2 on you transferible) stacks plus gives you 10 stack of might which actually increases the condition damage of an amazing 300 points (30 damage per tick if I’m not wrong).
Who can say that skill is useless or it is a nerf? I think that now it is a must on every Burst/Condition build bar.
You are wrong. The Math has been done to death. Its 350 condition damage, and you only get 5% of that. so its 17.5 more damage a tick.
Also no such thing as burst conditions. That just how conditions work.
Yeah it is 350/20 = 17.5.
In all honesty though I do like the change… Sure I realize at the beginning of sPvP matches I’m a little kittened but after I charge up my life force I feel a lot more powerful now. I think this is a plus for sPvP… maybe it is different for tPvP. Maybe they should add 5% life force when used in addition to might to satisfy everyone. 20% was a lot… maybe we just need to tune it down.
Chibong(lvl 80 necro)/Chidawg(lvl 80 thief)
SoS – The Industry[WORK]
What I feel?
I feel that skill incredibly powerful, it actually stands out from the average useless Necro skills.
Seriously, it applies 2 bleed (+2 on you transferible) stacks plus gives you 10 stack of might which actually increases the condition damage of an amazing 300 points (30 damage per tick if I’m not wrong).
Who can say that skill is useless or it is a nerf? I think that now it is a must on every Burst/Condition build bar.
You are wrong. The Math has been done to death. Its 350 condition damage, and you only get 5% of that. so its 17.5 more damage a tick.
Also no such thing as burst conditions. That just how conditions work.
I meant Burst or Condition, not both xP
However 17.5 more damage per tick isn’t insignificant, it can make a difference considering how fast bleed ticks.
They tick 1 per sec. So even with a stack of 10 bleeds that’s 175 damage more per sec. That is a very sad gain in dps. So lets say they last for the full 14 sec.
175*14= 2450 damage increase over that time.
So saying that your could hit 10 stacks instantly (you can’t) and it stay on the target for that long (most of the time it will not, and lets not forget the 25 bleed stack limit) your looking at 2450 more damage.
I do agree a lot of the complaints about the nerf were more based on Necromancer’s losing their method of generating LF quickly in order to compete with other classes.
It’s not just a tPvP thing however. When a Necro needs to start the fight without ANY Lifeforce that means he is immediately behind by at least a weapon rotation in terms of overall acting ability. The Necro has now been forced to focus their attention more on filling their LifeForce bar so they can operate as the class intends instead of starting kitten and having to work their way to becoming on par with other classes.
Why must our class take the time to become on par with other classes?
In terms of the the change to BiP I personally am liking it so far. It is now a Condition utility skill that also has Power viability with Might stacks. The Life Force generation has moved to Spectral grasp which is nice because now the Necro has a Chill/Pull/LF generator all on one Utility.
I prefer picking and choosing which Utility skills I bring to the situation. I can see how this might be an issue outside of WvW but that unfortunately is all I play with my Necro.
What I feel?
I feel that skill incredibly powerful, it actually stands out from the average useless Necro skills.
Seriously, it applies 2 bleed (+2 on you transferible) stacks plus gives you 10 stack of might which actually increases the condition damage of an amazing 300 points (30 damage per tick if I’m not wrong).
Who can say that skill is useless or it is a nerf? I think that now it is a must on every Burst/Condition build bar.
You are wrong. The Math has been done to death. Its 350 condition damage, and you only get 5% of that. so its 17.5 more damage a tick.
Also no such thing as burst conditions. That just how conditions work.
I meant Burst or Condition, not both xP
However 17.5 more damage per tick isn’t insignificant, it can make a difference considering how fast bleed ticks.
They tick 1 per sec. So even with a stack of 10 bleeds that’s 175 damage more per sec. That is a very sad gain in dps. So lets say they last for the full 14 sec.
175*14= 2450 damage increase over that time.
So saying that your could hit 10 stacks instantly (you can’t) and it stay on the target for that long (most of the time it will not, and lets not forget the 25 bleed stack limit) your looking at 2450 more damage.
Sorry but that is just not that much.
But squirrel it is all damage in 30 seconds too… assuming nobody removed it. How else could we have gotten might before? some signet use.. what was that? 3 stacks?
in 30 seconds if I have a full stack of 10 mights we can do a lot of damage. Think about all the rotations we can do in 30 seconds.
Seems like everyone would be happen if they kept this change and just gave us a 50% life force pool at the start.
Chibong(lvl 80 necro)/Chidawg(lvl 80 thief)
SoS – The Industry[WORK]
But squirrel it is all damage in 30 seconds too… assuming nobody removed it. How else could we have gotten might before? some signet use.. what was that? 3 stacks?
in 30 seconds if I have a full stack of 10 mights we can do a lot of damage. Think about all the rotations we can do in 30 seconds.
Seems like everyone would be happen if they kept this change and just gave us a 50% life force pool at the start.
No, 30 seconds is the cooldown of the skill. You have might for 12 seconds.
But squirrel it is all damage in 30 seconds too… assuming nobody removed it. How else could we have gotten might before? some signet use.. what was that? 3 stacks?
in 30 seconds if I have a full stack of 10 mights we can do a lot of damage. Think about all the rotations we can do in 30 seconds.
Seems like everyone would be happen if they kept this change and just gave us a 50% life force pool at the start.
No, 30 seconds is the cooldown of the skill. You have might for 12 seconds.
Oh gotcha so it is 12 seconds every 30 seconds. That’s still a lot. Haven’t PvPed yet with this new patch. Just did a little bit of testing last night.
Chibong(lvl 80 necro)/Chidawg(lvl 80 thief)
SoS – The Industry[WORK]
Did you bother to read my posts? The math is right there. I told you exactly how much damage it is and how much it would do (condition damage). you just keep saying its a lot. And i am giving you exact numbers.
Did you bother to read my posts? The math is right there. I told you exactly how much damage it is and how much it would do (condition damage). you just keep saying its a lot. And i am giving you exact numbers.
@Squirrel
I will take your word for it. I will experiment a bit more later tonight when I get home. My new rotation would be BiP, spam all traps on target then switch to scepter/dagger and when I do that I do get extra might stacks due to offhand weapon sigil and then spam all my weapon skills. Going to test the effect of this 10 stacks of might.
Chibong(lvl 80 necro)/Chidawg(lvl 80 thief)
SoS – The Industry[WORK]
Did you bother to read my posts? The math is right there. I told you exactly how much damage it is and how much it would do (condition damage). you just keep saying its a lot. And i am giving you exact numbers.
The problem is that your exact numbers actually are significant, you just aren’t realizing it.
Drusilla Ina Alanis
<The Undead Lords>
Since 1994 – undeadlords.net
How else could we have gotten might before? some signet use.. what was that? 3 stacks?
I have a 30% chance to get might on any crit, and an 80% crit chance. I also get might on every life blast I cast, and I cast it alot. I had both of these things before they changed anything. I could get 20 stacks of might pretty easily, I didn’t need any more ways to get it, and +20% LF is much, much better with my DS build.
Make Spectral Walk give us a flat +15-20% LF instead of LF on hit and I’ll call it even -_-
I understand how most Tpvp necros want to start a match or upon repsawn be at 100% lifeforce. However I doubt that is a change Anet is wanting to make right away or at all. Other classes will start to complain that they do not also get 100% of their mechanic bar filled too. What I think Anet CAN do to help in that regard is making the amount of lifeforce generated by things dying around the necromancer a lot more. Especially for targets the necromancer has damaged previously.
On the subject of BiP, please Anet just take the chance and up the damage of the dot and shorten the duration time. There is really no point besides a dungeon boss that a 30 second bleed is appropriate at all. Also rethink putting the might gain onto scepter #3 attack instead and giving BiP back its lifeforce generation.
Don’t get me wrong i like the change, however it feels like you are trying to help 2 different playstyles by changing ONE ability. Better to put the burst damage to conditions on a scepter attack ( scepter #3 I’m looking at you! ) and put back the life force gain on either a dagger offhand skill or something like that.
Maybe I’m just QQ’ing though. Shrug.
I understand how most Tpvp necros want to start a match or upon repsawn be at 100% lifeforce. However I doubt that is a change Anet is wanting to make right away or at all. Other classes will start to complain that they do not also get 100% of their mechanic bar filled too.
I don’t think so, of the three classes with a resource management element necro has the fewest ways to gain their resource. Warriors have utilities like Signet of Fury and Berserker’s Stance that can completely fill their resource instantly or in a few seconds. And thieves have a multitude of ways to regain initiative on top of its inherent regeneration.
Which is why I think changing Signet of Undeath to work out of combat and not have a 3 second timer would not be OP as it would give necros a reliable way to build up life force when there isn’t lots of things dying around them.
I used BiP with Signet of Undeath :/ I’m all about keeping my LF as high as possible. IMO SoU should have an out of combat LF regen (1% per 3s) and an incombat regen (1% per 1s)
@ Riot Inducer, while I think giving necros a free 100% lifeforce bar is a bit on the overwhelming side. I do agree with you that perhaps making signet of undeath passively work outside of combat a great idea.
As poster above me stated 1% per 3( or even 5 secs) outside of combat and then 1% ever 1( or 2 seconds) inside combat seems pretty good to me.
Those people who used it as a huge life force filler will call it a nurf despite the huge damage increase it provides.
It doesn’t provide any more damage for me, it would just let me get to max stacks of Might slightly faster (if I would actually use it now, which I won’t). The LF was better for me, period. If this is the only way you have to get Might, then you’re under-utilizing Might.
Please if you have accurate data over the Feast of Corruption bug post it where you know.
I feel this is an answer for the “We need more burst”.
We now have 10% LF on the pull skill. (I use this kill to chain-epidemic while solo) and extra LF (if hit) on the Spectral Walk…
Lets try to mix the 4 of them and test how it goes…
Oh, and have you seen how easy is to get x25 vulnerability stacks on mobs now using the traited Spectral wall? That and x10 Might its bananas damage.
Sorry for the PvP guys tought, the change is great on PvE. I hope you will get some fixes too on other skills.
@Deistik how do you manage to get more Might? Runes? Sigils…? DS passives?
Those people who used it as a huge life force filler will call it a nurf despite the huge damage increase it provides.
It doesn’t provide any more damage for me, it would just let me get to max stacks of Might slightly faster (if I would actually use it now, which I won’t). The LF was better for me, period. If this is the only way you have to get Might, then you’re under-utilizing Might.
Alternatively, you could use the new BiP and change your Sigil setup to something different, keeping the might buffs in your build and getting additional damage from a different sigil.
Drusilla Ina Alanis
<The Undead Lords>
Since 1994 – undeadlords.net
Bad change that does very little to address the fundamental problems with the class. One of those changes that really makes you wonder what the devs are thinking.
This ability always confused me as to why it gave life force in the first place. Our other corruption spells did not do the same. When they changed this to granting might and took away the life gain, this spell makes sense now. I mean the title says Blood is Power! Therefore it should boost our power. I support this change and look forward to experimenting with new builds.
On a side note I agree with the spectral grasp change as well.
Bottom line: Those people who used it as a huge life force filler will call it a nurf despite the huge damage increase it provides. Condition Necromancers do have a hard time building life force yes but you shouldn’t be relying on one skill to build it all the time anyway.
Its a buff and quite a big one in my opinion, why?
well… with 106% critical damage…
How is it a “huge damage increase”? You guys keep saying this and have nothing to back it up. While i Give you the exact amount of damage it increases for a condition damage.
Bottom line: Those people who used it as a huge life force filler will call it a nurf despite the huge damage increase it provides. Condition Necromancers do have a hard time building life force yes but you shouldn’t be relying on one skill to build it all the time anyway.
Its a buff and quite a big one in my opinion, why?
well… with 106% critical damage…
How is it a “huge damage increase”? You guys keep saying this and have nothing to back it up. While i Give you the exact amount of damage it increases for a condition damage.
I think it is perceived as any damage boost is a huge damage boost for us. =(
Or that since the damage boost comes in terms of might, it can be used however we want and is thus, a damage boost to every single damage skill we have, right?
Bottom line: Those people who used it as a huge life force filler will call it a nurf despite the huge damage increase it provides. Condition Necromancers do have a hard time building life force yes but you shouldn’t be relying on one skill to build it all the time anyway.
Its a buff and quite a big one in my opinion, why?
well… with 106% critical damage…
How is it a “huge damage increase”? You guys keep saying this and have nothing to back it up. While i Give you the exact amount of damage it increases for a condition damage.
I think it is perceived as any damage boost is a huge damage boost for us. =(
Or that since the damage boost comes in terms of might, it can be used however we want and is thus, a damage boost to every single damage skill we have, right?
True, but it was a damage nerf if you use DS to do damage.
Bottom line: Those people who used it as a huge life force filler will call it a nurf despite the huge damage increase it provides. Condition Necromancers do have a hard time building life force yes but you shouldn’t be relying on one skill to build it all the time anyway.
Its a buff and quite a big one in my opinion, why?
well… with 106% critical damage…
How is it a “huge damage increase”? You guys keep saying this and have nothing to back it up. While i Give you the exact amount of damage it increases for a condition damage.
Its like 15-16% for 12-14 seconds, on a 24-30s cooldown. And that is just counting the bleeding damage, not what you’d be getting from several abilities that rely on power (FoC, PM, LB).
I think its pretty accurate to call it a 10% overall damage increase for my 0-30-20-0-20 spec.
Drusilla Ina Alanis
<The Undead Lords>
Since 1994 – undeadlords.net
what i don’t understand is why if they were hurting for life force why not just use spectral grasp and pick up the extra trait for more life force gain on use…it shares the same cd as blood is power. they buffed both moves. you can call it a nerf if you want, but by that logic you could also say all horses are alien beings from mars. Doesn’t mean you would be right about that either. If you needed the 20% life force gain for more survival it probably fell down to poor choice on utility skills…spectral armor covers that problem completly
I think you are forgetting that the might will affect your other skills too? Btw, using percentages in this instance is wrong. 350 power/condition damage is exactly that, its not a percentage.
“We just don’t want players to grind in GW2” – C. Johanson “it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun, rather than having fun”
Guild missions say otherwise.
what i don’t understand is why if they were hurting for life force why not just use spectral grasp and pick up the extra trait for more life force gain on use…it shares the same cd as blood is power. they buffed both moves. you can call it a nerf if you want, but by that logic you could also say all horses are alien beings from mars. Doesn’t mean you would be right about that either. If you needed the 20% life force gain for more survival it probably fell down to poor choice on utility skills…spectral armor covers that problem completly
Gluttony isn’t working properly at the moment, Spectral Grasp is absurdly unreliable.
“We just don’t want players to grind in GW2” – C. Johanson “it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun, rather than having fun”
Guild missions say otherwise.
