Guild Wars 2

Lloyd.8710:

what i don’t understand is why if they were hurting for life force why not just use spectral grasp and pick up the extra trait for more life force gain on use…it shares the same cd as blood is power. they buffed both moves. you can call it a nerf if you want, but by that logic you could also say all horses are alien beings from mars. Doesn’t mean you would be right about that either. If you needed the 20% life force gain for more survival it probably fell down to poor choice on utility skills…spectral armor covers that problem completly

Spectral armor is a untraited 90 sec CD and only give you LF when hit. And as some one else said, Gluttony does not work.

@kKagari.6804
I’ll take “Thinks that are not true Alex” (your signature)

Personally I find the change lackluster. In PvP, I still don’t have a reason to put Blood is Power on my bar over Well of Darkness / Epidemic, Corrupt Boon / Well of Corruption, or Plague Signet / Spectral Armor.

In PvE, I still don’t have a reason to put Blood is Power on my bar over Epidemic, Signet of Undeath, Corrupt Boon, Well of Darkness, Well of Corruption, Well of Power, or Spectral Wall. I sometimes used Blood is Power anyway, on fights like the robot and his turrets in CoE explorable, but in situations where I didn’t use Blood is Power, I still won’t use it now.

This change is unremarkable.

Mathemagician.7314:

Personally I find the change lackluster. In PvP, I still don’t have a reason to put Blood is Power on my bar over Well of Darkness / Epidemic, Corrupt Boon / Well of Corruption, or Plague Signet / Spectral Armor.

In PvE, I still don’t have a reason to put Blood is Power on my bar over Epidemic, Signet of Undeath, Corrupt Boon, Well of Darkness, Well of Corruption, Well of Power, or Spectral Wall. I sometimes used Blood is Power anyway, on fights like the robot and his turrets in CoE explorable, but in situations where I didn’t use Blood is Power, I still won’t use it now.

This change is unremarkable.

This is how I feel as well. Didn’t seem worth using over numerous other utilities before, and still doesn’t. So it’s no real change at all, for my particular playstyle.

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Spectral armor is a untraited 90 sec CD and only give you LF when hit. And as some one else said, Gluttony does not work.

I’m at a loss at what gluttony has to do with my post…like i said if you are hurting on life force and required blood is power for it…you probably made some poor choices. Granted gluttony would make life easier. I just don’t see the logic in people saying they needed life force from the move for their Curses tree when they have trait choices to cover their losses. Arenanet simply closed one door and opened a few more. Id also like to point out that yes Spectral Armor does only give you life force when hit…but if you were using it to soak and then its basically the same concept.

Lloyd.8710:

what i don’t understand is why if they were hurting for life force why not just use spectral grasp and pick up the extra trait for more life force gain on use…it shares the same cd as blood is power. they buffed both moves. you can call it a nerf if you want, but by that logic you could also say all horses are alien beings from mars. Doesn’t mean you would be right about that either. If you needed the 20% life force gain for more survival it probably fell down to poor choice on utility skills…spectral armor covers that problem completly

You said “pick up the extra trait for more life force gain on use” I (and others as there is another post) assumed you were talking about Gluttony.

No Spectral Armor does not do the same thing. If you had played Tpvp you would understand that you start every fight with 0 LF. This means that if your jumped before you have a chance to build any LF your already behind the curve. Using Spectral Armor just for LF gain means i will not have it for the Stun Break. Or the reason its on my bar in the first place.

Spectral Grasp pulls a player to me, if running conditions, this is the last thing i want to do. It also only gives 10% LF. They closed a door with out opening any other doors. The uses for BIP are not the same as the uses of Spectral Grasp. What they took away from BIP was not replaced by anything.

Well I read some unrelated stuff on Reddit and happened on this:

Domesurges:
“so thanks for the blood is power buff”

Jon Peters:
“yeah i think thats will help bring power necro into play. rework even. but more sensible. makes it more of a corruption. give power build uses and specializes spectral skills more. 3 benefits in 1”

So I guess that in the future if you need Life Force you go Spectral.
I guess that the real question is how good they will be after the bugs are fixed.

but blood is power still a Utility skill

if you want play mm? Utility; well? Utility; Condition? Utility
Utility slot? threeeee!!
blood is power have enough space? NO

and compare Warrior’s For Great Justice!
blood is power??? Signet of Spite more useful…

MM AI still fool, Death Magic trait line’s Boon Duration still Useless,
DS still #3#4, Weapon skills still Adornment.

so Jon Peters do anything at all? Nothing!

Seriously, very hard nerf to my Condition Necromancer… Very difficult to generate life force in combat, overall feels much less effective and less fun to play.. I relied on quick swapping of Death Shroud and normal abilities…

Please revert

Kaori.3574:

LastDay.3524:

Well I read some unrelated stuff on Reddit and happened on this:

Domesurges:
“so thanks for the blood is power buff”

Jon Peters:
“yeah i think thats will help bring power necro into play. rework even. but more sensible. makes it more of a corruption. give power build uses and specializes spectral skills more. 3 benefits in 1”

So I guess that in the future if you need Life Force you go Spectral.
I guess that the real question is how good they will be after the bugs are fixed.

but blood is power still a Utility skill

if you want play mm? Utility; well? Utility; Condition? Utility
Utility slot? threeeee!!
blood is power have enough space? NO

and compare Warrior’s For Great Justice!
blood is power??? Signet of Spite more useful…

MM AI still fool, Death Magic trait line’s Boon Duration still Useless,
DS still #3#4, Weapon skills still Adornment.

so Jon Peters do anything at all? Nothing!

I don’t see what that has to do with my post.

LastDay.3524:

Kaori.3574:

LastDay.3524:

Well I read some unrelated stuff on Reddit and happened on this:

Domesurges:
“so thanks for the blood is power buff”

Jon Peters:
“yeah i think thats will help bring power necro into play. rework even. but more sensible. makes it more of a corruption. give power build uses and specializes spectral skills more. 3 benefits in 1”

So I guess that in the future if you need Life Force you go Spectral.
I guess that the real question is how good they will be after the bugs are fixed.

but blood is power still a Utility skill

if you want play mm? Utility; well? Utility; Condition? Utility
Utility slot? threeeee!!
blood is power have enough space? NO

and compare Warrior’s For Great Justice!
blood is power??? Signet of Spite more useful…

MM AI still fool, Death Magic trait line’s Boon Duration still Useless,
DS still #3#4, Weapon skills still Adornment.

so Jon Peters do anything at all? Nothing!

I don’t see what that has to do with my post.

sorry, it’s my mistake, i edited my post

finally tested new blood is power and i have to say i love it. it is very nice boost to condition damage..

After giving it a shot in 3 hours of spvp tonight and some light tourney,

The BiP/Spectral Grasp change is kind of bad if your power build is focused on DS. Spectral Grasp is almost impossible to land, yet alone benefit from the 10% life force. The only time I was able to use it successfully was when my opponent was already on my kitten and at that point I had much bigger things to worry about.

The damage is nice, considering that you can use it against nothing, not get the bleed debuff, and still gain the might charges, but the tradeoff for the life force is not worth it.

Now essentially I have to spend the first 2-3 minutes of the match hoping for someone to be downed so I can horn/dagger them to build life force, otherwise I don’t stand much of a chance to actively build it if I am being attacked. I have to stand behind and staff/drop marks and hope nobody hops on me. The 20% from BiP wasn’t much, but it offered a reliable way to at least gain enough Life Force to defend myself at the beginning of the match, where I am most vulnerable.

So in the end, to me, this has been a slight nerf to my power DS build.

Obviously Necros need a skill to generate life-force, maybe change this one back to it?

Necros don’t need more ways to get life force. People just got dependent on BiP because it was handing life force to them on a platter. Now it’s a utility skill that should only be picked if it complements a player’s build strategy, and people who see power/conditions as mutually exclusive are struggling with it.

Ascii.9726:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

How is it a “huge damage increase”? You guys keep saying this and have nothing to back it up. While i Give you the exact amount of damage it increases for a condition damage.

Testing i just did to ‘back it up’

Top health bar is the damage to NPC done with a completely bare necromancer (no traits, 0 condition damage, 916 stats, no weapon) to replicate Blood is Power damage before the change. Total damage 2,550 over 30 seconds.

Bottom health bar is damage done to the same NPC with +356 condition damage (closest i can get to 350) replicated. (30 in Curses with no traits activated to replicate +300 condition damage, and 2 +28 condition damage runes in armour) Total damage 3,618 over 30 seconds.

Thats a 42% increase in damage before you even add bleed duration increases. Not only that but you also have +350 Power and Condition damage for at least 10 seconds to affect anything else you burst with (seen as most effective condition builds will burst with all there DoTs and Epidemic them.)

Now tell me that’s better then 20% life force.

Sorry but that is just not accurate. You can’t compare it that way. You have to look at what the base damage it will add. Not as a percentage. If you run full condition spec it adds 16% damage not 42%. Because you have to look at the total damage your doing. If you only look at it without any spec’s than you can’t look at how much percentage wise it adds to the base as this makes no since at all.

From your testing it added (2,550-3,618)=1068 damage over 30 sec.

so 1068/30=35.6dps

So in other words it only added 35.6 dps to your damage. That is very little.

Munrock.3092:

Necros don’t need more ways to get life force. People just got dependent on BiP because it was handing life force to them on a platter. Now it’s a utility skill that should only be picked if it complements a player’s build strategy, and people who see power/conditions as mutually exclusive are struggling with it.

Run Tpvp and than come back and say this. We don’t have other ways of getting LF before combat starts. And that is a problem. Necro’s in tPVP start at a disadvantage and start the game missing a very large portion of their defenses. Smart teams know this and target the Necro first. This makes the Necro an easy kill at the start of a match. If the Necro tries to say and fight the Necro will get downed very fast. If the Necro Run than they other team wins by removing a player from the fight.

Ascii.9726:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Sorry but that is just not accurate. You can’t compare it that way. You have to look at what the base damage it will add. Not as a percentage. If you run full condition spec it adds 16% damage not 42%. Because you have to look at the total damage your doing. If you only look at it without any spec’s than you can’t look at how much percentage wise it adds to the base as this makes no since at all.

From your testing it added (2,550-3,618)=1068 damage over 30 sec.

so 1068/30=35.6dps

So in other words it only added 35.6 dps to your damage. That is very little.

I don’t know how i can be any more accurate then what i provided. 1,068 is a 42% increase in the total damage it did before to the total damage it does now.

Before 2,550 bleed damage over 30 seconds did 85 per second.
After 3,618 bleed damage over 30 seconds does 120.6 per second.

Again a 42% increase in each bleed tick before from after. 35.6 damage per tick on this and every other bleed cast during the 10 seconds after using the skill is a huge damage increase.

And i told you why that does not work. and why that 42% is misleading. Any thing looks large if you compare it to nothing. To do a percent increase like that you have to compare it to someone with max stats.

Now you can say that for a power build (that has no condition damage) that it increases his bleed damage by $$% and that would be fine. But you can’t say it increases his damage by $$% because your not taking into account that most of this damage is from DD, and that $$% increase to bleed damage is nothing compaired to how much DD damage he does.

Ok lets say you do 100 points of damage, you increase this by 50 points. You could say the damage as increased by 50%. Now lets say you do 1000 points of damage, and you increase it by the same amount 50 points. Now you have only increased your damage by 5%. Same amount of damage was added but the % of the total damage done is very different.

That is why i was giving number for a condition spec. It is only condition spec Necro’s that are going to care about bleed damage.

I gave you the exact amount of dps that it adds. Going off of your numbers you can see exactly how much Raw DPS it adds. And it just is not that much.

While additional damage is welcome, I realized while playing today again that we are still far away from the dps of other classes. The Blood is Power change certainly didn’t help that much. Also, it makes it a prerequiste to play with…leaving some specs like the minion mancer in the dust once more.

Somehow I get the feeling that A-Net doesn’t know what to do with the class and which direction it should take. The many shortcomming aren’t really justified just because of Death Shroud.

Simply put, I don’t like it. I want my Life Force generation back

ascii you know that test is very bad is like saying 10 migh increase a lot (+40%) the damage of a power build with already 2k power…

10 might (350 power) is a lot if you take the base power (916) but if you have already lot of power (soldier amulet for example) obvious that increase isnt so great.

same for condition build necro that already have near 1300 condition damage, more 350 is nothing near 42% increase condition damage, not even close.

we have only one option to go on amulet choice that is rabid (shaman is totatly crap since we dont benefict almost nothing with compassion…) the other one with power and condition damage dont need say anything because no one is using it as necro condition build.

the rabid amulet alone already give you a good amount of condition damage + 20/30 on curses and the runes almost any necro condition build have near 1300 (and more) condition damage.

so how much BiP with 10might inccrease condition damage in builds already with 1300 condition damage? that is the test you need to do….

Ascii.9726:

This is not a fair debate as the implications vary massively and you have no sound comparison to use. IM saying that 42% more damage on the skill plus 350 Power and Condition Damage for a further 10 seconds is a much better buff then 20% life force.

Good lord it’s not a 42% increase. Some other guy explained this to you 5x in a row and you still don’t get it apparently.

It’s a 42% increase if you are a naked necromancer with no gear. But nobody is a naked necromancer with no gear.

If you are a normal condition spec necromancer it’s a 15% increase.

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Munrock.3092:

Necros don’t need more ways to get life force. People just got dependent on BiP because it was handing life force to them on a platter. Now it’s a utility skill that should only be picked if it complements a player’s build strategy, and people who see power/conditions as mutually exclusive are struggling with it.

Run Tpvp and than come back and say this. We don’t have other ways of getting LF before combat starts. And that is a problem. Necro’s in tPVP start at a disadvantage and start the game missing a very large portion of their defenses. Smart teams know this and target the Necro first. This makes the Necro an easy kill at the start of a match. If the Necro tries to say and fight the Necro will get downed very fast. If the Necro Run than they other team wins by removing a player from the fight.

Basically this. The 20% Life Force wasn’t much, but at least offered a venue to prolong your death until some teammates showed off to peel. Now you are really left in the open.

Honestly, I think most of the SR tree needs to be reworked, because for a DS centric build, you have to make some pretty tough decisions on traits that overall don’t really give much of a benefit compared to how slowly Life Force generates. For whatever you’re doing, the 25% slower degeneration trait is a must. If you’re doing power you need to prolong the LF pool before it hits 50% as much as possible. This isn’t very feasible because you end up chewing a lot of damage, and by the time you are in a position to actually utilize DS for damage, you are now close to, or below the 50% threshold. If you use DS defensively, you need it because the slower it degenerates, the more damage you can take instead.

If there was a 30 point trait that removed that damage limiter, or removed the degeneration of life force while in DS, that would be awesome. Aside from the 30 point trait that reduces the cooldown to DS by half, there’s no real point of going that deeply into SR, and even then, the cooldown reduction is iffy because again, you don’t really generate much life force to really swap in and out of DS that often in pvp.

In PvE, this isn’t really an issue, because life force generation is generous, especially more so with that signet that gives 1% life force for every 3 seconds in combat.

Actually, if that thing generated life force while out of combat too, it would be pretty beneficial for all builds all around.

But then again, this is just me trying to get my build to work. So QQ

@Ascii.9726
An addition to it not being a 42% increase it’s also NOT 30 SECONDS. Why does everyone in this thread think the cooldown is the duration? The might lasts 12 seconds. Way to try the actual skill.

now without the 20% LF we could get from BiP every 24s, build LF is very hard (last gasp is good mainly because is a BS and give protection not because give LF everytime someone hit me…).

the only option now is invest 20 on SR and get the trait that give 3% LF with every mark, gluttony will change lot of things but who know how much time they will take to fix that? ( im not a programmer but how hard is to correct that bug???)

Dibrom isnt only 10s base time?

Dibrom.6408:

@Ascii.9726
An addition to it not being a 42% increase it’s also NOT 30 SECONDS. Why does everyone in this thread think the cooldown is the duration? The might lasts 12 seconds. Way to try the actual skill.

To be fair, he’s not noting the cooldown. He’s noting the duration of the bleed, which is 30 seconds. The Might applied will affect the full bleed duration, because it was active when the bleed was initially applied. In that, he is correct… and you are a troll.

However, to play devil’s advocate, no PvP opponent (unless they’re AFK) is going to let that bleed tick for 30 seconds. Most professions could have removed the bleed twice or more in that span, and anyone with half a brain will bring some form of condition removal.

That said, you become much more reliant on one of two things… the life force gain that you lost, or the +350 Power – which, as mentioned for a Power build (or even modestly stacking into it with Zerker amulets/Eagle runes for a crit DD build) is not anything to celebrate.

20% life force instantaneously and reliably however? That is something worth noting.

You love it so much you’ve never even slotted it.

To be fair, he’s not noting the cooldown. He’s noting the duration of the bleed, which is 30 seconds. The Might applied will affect the full bleed duration, because it was active when the bleed was initially applied. In that, he is correct… and you are a troll.

No it doesn’t. Have you ever played the class?

I’d pick troll over dumb anyday.

Belay my previous post, my wife actually rant the test already. It is only affected by the Might’s duration.

Ascii.9726:

@Enerjak.2475 i was actually in the middle of Frapsing what i was trying to prove when i realised the bleed DoT drops after the 12 seconds of might ends. The 2 × 60 bleed damage per second drops to 2 × 43 after 12 seconds.

My maths was correct its just my theory wasn’t. I assumed the +350 condition damage boost from the 10 stacks of might stayed consistent in the damage ticks throughout the 30 seconds.

Oh you were wrong for so many reasons. This is not even taking into account that you want to compare the % damage increase instead of how much damage is actually added.

Ascii.9726:

OK time to hold my hands up. I had no idea that the damage over time of DoT remains consistent with your condition damage as it ticks away. I’ve always been under the impression that once its been cast that’s the damage it will do, which i just tested now.

I was going on the Toop-tip data provided before replicating 0 condition damage to after replicating 350 condition damage, which proved a 42% increase in damage. However i was unaware that 42% only applies to the first 12 seconds whist the might is in effect.

so…
(2,550 × 30) / 30 = 2,550 For before the change.
((3,618 × 12) + (2,550 × 18)) / 30 = 2,977.2 For after the change.

2977.2 – 2,550 = 427.2 which is 16.75% Overall increase.

Thanks for the class on live scaling condition damage.

Might actually retroactively affects your condition damage. So if you have 14 stacks of bleed on someone and suddenly gain 10 stacks of might, you will be going from, say 1652 damage a second to 1890.

So with the new change, its better to stack bleeds before you use BIP.

So back to the argument at hand. Is the lifeforce loss to power builds worth the slight if not needed and appreciated buff to condition builds. Seems like devs are not quite sure where to change our class for the better. Take away from one build to give to another all the while making MM necros sit in the corner by themselves.
Really wish we could have anyone from Anet just go over a slight plan for necro development. Even if it is just a casual outline of what they would like to test / go over. that way the necro community can dig our hands in and help somewhat.

Happy Wednesday
Tek.

Teknomancer.8475:

So back to the argument at hand. Is the lifeforce loss to power builds worth the slight if not needed and appreciated buff to condition builds. Seems like devs are not quite sure where to change our class for the better. Take away from one build to give to another all the while making MM necros sit in the corner by themselves.
Really wish we could have anyone from Anet just go over a slight plan for necro development. Even if it is just a casual outline of what they would like to test / go over. that way the necro community can dig our hands in and help somewhat.
Tek.

This! I would like to know what the thought process is from our dev. Do they think the MM is fine and we aren’t playing it properly (maybe we aren’t using DS right :P). Where are they focusing and what can we help by testing or giving feedback.

In the end, I’d just like to get an idea of where they are going. I stopped leveling my “main” (necro of course) at level 54 simply because I’m waiting on the bugs to be fixed and to know what the fun builds may be once they are.

Ascii.9726:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Oh you were wrong for so many reasons. This is not even taking into account that you want to compare the % damage increase instead of how much damage is actually added.

Were else was i wrong at then? the theory was solid it was in my eyes a 42% increase, the numbers spoke for themselves.

I wasn’t applying it to anything i was stating that going from 2,550 to 3,618 was a 42% increase i never applied that to actually fighting someone with armour or condition duration deductions.

Do you read my Posts. I explained why that does not work. If your unable to follow very clear examples there is not much else to do.

If you want the real number of what 10 stacks of might does for a condition Necro, please read my post. I did the calculations. I have also proven how this guys information means nothing and is invalid.

Teknomancer.8475:

So back to the argument at hand. Is the lifeforce loss to power builds worth the slight if not needed and appreciated buff to condition builds. Seems like devs are not quite sure where to change our class for the better. Take away from one build to give to another all the while making MM necros sit in the corner by themselves.
Really wish we could have anyone from Anet just go over a slight plan for necro development. Even if it is just a casual outline of what they would like to test / go over. that way the necro community can dig our hands in and help somewhat.

Happy Wednesday
Tek.

MM and Well necros both. Power Necros take both a boon and a hit (more of a hit in my opinion) and Condition Necros take a a hit.

It seems like people just want their necros to do everything…which seems to be what Arenanet does not want…granted you will be able to do a fair amount of mixing but it will come at a price. My build can build 50% every 15 seconds…i did have to give up a few things and I’m not running around with 4-5 groups of minions but that is the kind of choices we will have to deal with. Maybe in the future they will patch it so we can stack bleed, gain mass amounts of life force, and have 5 pets out, until then people will have to stop being greedy and have to build their characters for a particular reason and work within their means. So many people cry foul its only been changed for a couple of days.

It seems like people just want their necros to do everything…which seems to be what Arenanet does not want…granted you will be able to do a fair amount of mixing but it will come at a price. My build can build 50% every 15 seconds…i did have to give up a few things and I’m not running around with 4-5 groups of minions but that is the kind of choices we will have to deal with. Maybe in the future they will patch it so we can stack bleed, gain mass amounts of life force, and have 5 pets out, until then people will have to stop being greedy and have to build their characters for a particular reason and work within their means. So many people cry foul its only been changed for a couple of days.

Nerf. There is no doubt.

In essence, life force acts as both a heal and damage boost for DS builds like mine. Now I’m forced to use DS less frequently? That just blows my mind. Sure, 10 stacks of might is nice, but it’s simply not as nice as life force.

Our damage is already sub-par, and with this change our survivability is greatly impacted. Not sure what they were thinking when they decided that this change would be a good idea.

Ascii.9726:

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

Testing i just did to ‘back it up’

Top health bar is the damage to NPC done with a completely bare necromancer (no traits, 0 condition damage, 916 stats, no weapon) to replicate Blood is Power damage before the change. Total damage 2,550 over 30 seconds.

Bottom health bar is damage done to the same NPC with +356 condition damage (closest i can get to 350) replicated. (30 in Curses with no traits activated to replicate +300 condition damage, and 2 +28 condition damage runes in armour) Total damage 3,618 over 30 seconds.

Thats a 42% increase in damage before you even add bleed duration increases. Not only that but you also have +350 Power and Condition damage for at least 10 seconds to affect anything else you burst with (seen as most effective condition builds will burst with all there DoTs and Epidemic them.)

Now tell me that’s better then 20% life force.

This is just incorrect, since 42% is the biggest damage increase possible. With every additional point of Condition Damage this increase is decreasing – the Condition Damage gained from BIP is being divided by overall bigger pool of Condition Damage – diminishing BIP effectivness in condition-based builds.

I hope I’m speaking my mind in an understandable way.

I am laughing at the faces of all those people who saying this was a nerf.
Blood is power (2 bleeds on you 2 on the enemy) , 10 stacks of might
Plague signet(transfers all conditions to target)
Signet power(VIII Trait of spite) 3 stacks of might upon usage of a signet.
I’ll give you a true story example.
Me Vs an Engineer
I start with scepter auto attack , I stack 3 bleeds on the engi(1 from scepter, 1 from sigil , 1 from curses 5 point trait)
Engineer attacks me and causes 4 stacks of bleed on me.
I use Blood is power and gain 2 stacks of bleed on me(making it 6) plus 10 stacks of might.
Engi has 5 stacks of bleed on him, I have 6 on me.
Auto attacking, 8 stacks of bleed on the engineer, 12 on me.
I use plague signet transfering 12 stacks of bleed onto the engineer, making him have a total of 20(!!!) and I gain 3 more stacks of might(making it 13)
Thief comes out of nowhere, I use epidemic.
2 people dead in 2 seconds from the time I use epidemic, both of them with 20 stacks of bleed on them(they where getting 2791 damage every second)(yes 2791 every second). PURE WIN!

Now if you think that the 36 seconds bleed is bad for SPvP , I am only going to tell you that as long as you have a condition on you, you won’t get out of combat.

So unless your enemy cleanses it(after you are dead) his health will continue to decrease for 36 seconds, if you spread that to 3 or 4 members of the opposite team, they will lose so many valueble seconds of not getting into combat(or choose to get into it and die)that YOUR team will be able to take all the bases.

Have fun fellow necros,I can officialy say they made us OP.

Sounds like you’re a regular hotjoin hero

So far everybody seems to be focusing on PvP, which I can understand, but in PvE, I like the change.

In dynamic events, life force can practicly fill itself up not to mention killing a harmless bunny gives you 10% life force, so I don’t need a 20% life force skill. Having it swapped for might is better in this scenario.

Dibrom.6408:

Sounds like you’re a regular hotjoin hero

No , actually its pretty simple.
1 stack of might gives you 35 condition damage, which is converted to 1,75 dmg per stack of bleed.
10 stacks of might gives you 350 condition damage, which is 17,5 dmg per stack of bleed.
10 stacks of bleed, while having 10 stacks of might means 175 dmg per second.
Now if we use, say an average of 1700 condition damage,(with the stacks of might) we get
2.5 + 0.5 * 80 + 0.05 * 1700 =127.5 dmg per second for one bleed(2.5 + 0.5 * Level + 0.05 * Condition Damage= dmg per stack per second)
If you use some good condition control you can easily get 10 stacks of bleed on your target, which translates into 1275 dmg per second just from bleeds, you still have a poison on the target(from scepter) and auto attack burst dmg
10 seconds is all you need to get your enemy down

EVERYONE knows that the only “good” build necro have for pvp is a condition one…

Ok in a condition build (septer/dagger, septer/horn or seppter/focus) we ONLY have one skill that gives us life force. ADVICE FOR ARENA NET – no one uses that skill (feast of corruption) because it only hits for 500 damage or so, and even you we use it only gives like 4-6% life force most of the time.

So if we want to have both ofensive and a litle defensive in the only build we can play, blood is power would be great, we bleed the oponent and we bleed ourselfs but this bleed could go to consume conditions ( to heal more) or to deathly swarm (off-hand dagger) to the oponent ( GREAT SKILL and im not kiding)

20% of life force is great to open on svanir for example ( Anet DO YOU KNOW that we start match without life force?) and for every other ocasion…
10 stacks of might in a condition build…hum… septer auto-atak deals 100 more damage in bleed, grasping dead 150 more damage in bleed and so on… even is it was 15 stacks of might it would be ONE BIG NERF in every aspect…
Just think with me, every outher class have a great pvp build that have at least one skills alone that can put 7k damage OR MORE (i.ve reach 21k with 1hundred sowrds so…) we dont have that, so we have to play conditions ( it requires control) not more “little” damage…

i think i speack for all good pvp necros out there, please give us the real blood is power and dont nerf us again ^^

I just need to say one thing to natsos.3692 – 10 seconds and you can kill anyone (if they stay still, like /dance or dont remove conditions or just “noobs”) and in a build with 1700 condition dmg 2 seconds is all a thief/warrior/eng need to kill you ( talking about good ones ^^ ) if you dont move, or /dance, etc

No foikles…No… if you die within 2 seconds by any thief or warrior, sorry but you must look your necro better.
I didn’t talk about 1700 passive condition, but 1700 WITH the 10 stacks of might from Bleed is Power.
Nop, condition is not the only “Good” build for necros out there, myself , I like wells more.
About everyone complaining how we start a match without life force..so..warriors start with 3 levels of adrenalinne?Nop.
It is our filler, is it something we have to fill.
Whenever you play a build, you are not supposed to use ALL your utilities to focus on ONE simple thing, because -lets face it-you are going to get yourself killed in a few seconds.
PvP is not PvE, you won’t get hit for 500 from a monster, and 1k if you are lucky.
You go both offensive and defensive, thats the purpose of this game.

Your life force filler is spectral walk(now) and not Blood is power.
If you want to use Blood is power, it is supposed to take place of one of your offensive utilities, while Spectral Walk will take the place of a defensive, and your life force filler.

Damage Formula for Bleed is as followed: 2.5 + 0.5 * Level + 0.05 * Condition Damage= per stack per second.

Going by 1350+ 350 (Blood is Power) to get 1700 Condition damage, each stack ticks for 127.5.

Without blood is power, 1350 condition damage, each stack ticks for 110. That’s an increase of 17.5 damage per stack. If you had 10 stacks of bleeds, that’s an extra 175 DPS. Oh who are we kidding, we’re PROS here, I got that guy stacked at 20 stacks all day. With 1350 Condition damage, that’s 2200 DPS, with 1700, 2550 DPS, extra 350 DPS. Wow that’s freakin’ game breaking! A 16% increase when you round it up!

/sarcasm off

Not saying power builds can’t find use for it, but BiP currently does squat for condition centric builds.

Also, comparing Adrenaline to Death Shroud is not a very good comparison.
a) Warrior’s survival aren’t balanced around Adrenaline
b) Warrior has way more methods to generate adrenaline anyway (Any weapon, just hit them, getting hit, shouts can generate them, yada yada)

A better comparison would be to the Guardian’s virtues. The design behind Guardians is that they have Virtue of Resolve and Courage that helps them block or recover from damage routinely. Their survival is further augmented by the fact that they have mitigation abilities spread all throughout their weapon sets and utilities. All in all, it’s very easy to justify the low HP Pool guardians have. And no, nothing in their skillset starts on cool down on at the beginning of a match (the equivalent of starting with 0 LF essentially).

Necros? Well, because Death Shroud is too amazing, we must build it up. The best way is to put at least 20 into SR and grab Soul Marks and always have a Staff no matter what build you run. Because Death Shroud is too amazing, you also cannot have amazing defensive cool downs. Because Death Shroud is so amazing, you shouldn’t need mobility as you can tank through everything. Because Death Shroud is so amazing, we need you to put yourself in harm’s way now to generate any with your utilities. It’s such a good mechanic that we have to restrict the options for building it pretty much to ONE weapon.

It does not matter how good you try and play with words, at the end of the day, the Necromancer took a huge hit in all areas because of Death Shroud. And Death Shroud just plain underperforms. They’ve also only made it worse from the first BWE til now.

While tPvP builds never ran BiP in the first place (outside of the first few minutes), there are better utilities for helping your team. Trying to tell others that changing one of the ONLY and previously BEST way to generate LF is a buff is well.. Pass me whatever you’re smoking please, I’d like to have a hit.

As you said changing one of the only PREVIOUSLY best way to generate LF(with an other) is indeed a buff.
You might not want to use BiP in your conditions build,this was your life force filler, but don’t you get something better in exchange for BiP, you get spectral walk.
If you get 10 hits(or even 10 bleed ticks) you will get 30% life force,10% more than BiP used to give.
Also it gives you a swiftness boost, a teleport-to-start ability, and a stun breaking wayout.
You are telling me that you used one skill as a LF filler before, now you get a better one because the old is changed, and you are telling me this is a nerf?
No sir, it is a buff.Two skills changed, both buffed,both in diffrent ways.

Also yes, DS needs a bit reworking.

You’re greatly underestimating something, that you NEED to take the damage. I agree, I love the new spectral walk, but it’s not the savior or messiah that will turn this class around. The issue with Necros run deeper than that and it does very little to change the status quo. Spectral Armor gives you protection for 6s, while it could be better, we’ll have to take what we’re dealt with.

But like everything else with the Necro now, you have to put yourself more in harms way than ANY other class in order to get meaningful yield from some of your skills. That’s fine and cool design but it just doesn’t work out when the yield isn’t quite on par with the risk.

Spectral Walk requires you to take damage to get any LF out of it, it also does not grant anymore than SA does without reducing your incoming damage. If you want to take those 10 bleed ticks, go ahead, it just means you’re going back into shroud. Cancelling any of these abilities early also means no LF.

Whenever I see a Necro pop either of these two, I chain CC them. (Spectral Recall does not break stun twice like thieve’s SHS). It’s quite easy to scare them into shroud once that happens and then they become sitting ducks. The easiest way to kill necros is to force them into shroud when they’re at ~33% so even if they take a few seconds to walk around as a black shade, they’re vulnerable and pretty much dead the moment they come out.

Plus Spectral Walk isn’t that great in tPvP, if you need to swiftness off the point to get some breathing room, you’re seceding the point to the other team meaning you’ll be behind in score. You can then port back but once they neutralize the point, you’re already behind.

I played with it the last whole day in wvwvw and I liked it very much.
The guys which I dotted up and used epidemic on with 145/tic and 10+ stacks didnt’t liked it so much.

Whether I like the change or not is irrelevant. I just don’t see why this change is here in the first place.

It’s not a bugfix. We don’t need abitrary tooling around with abilities and changing the effects and benefits of them, we need bugfixes. You can’t seriously balance a profession without weeding out as many bugs as possible. Do we work? Yes, we do. But come on – 90-100 bugs that still need squashing. Takes time, too. Time and hard work. So why are we getting ability changes beforehand?

Still, great job giving the Necromancer car a new paint job while it has a flat tyre.

I agree Kaarnak. Why are they trying to balance out random skills already? Makes me wonder how Overpowered they think we are that once the bugs are fixed; they’re going to have to nerf us so might as well do it all at once. Hahah

Tl:dr this whole thread

If your good, you used it for LF generation at the start and swapped it off anyways
If your bad you see might = more dmg= we are better nao right!?
Fix the bugs first before fiddling with skills. God I thought blizzard was bad at release, how much of a share did you give NCSoft Anet? What happened since gw1

Not going to make me take wells or spectral walk off my bar for WvW.

I can definitely see uses for it in sPvP though as using it + wells when a melee class comes for you will be devastating.