Guild Wars 2

Lopez.7369:

Balancing the game at lower levels is impossible. Way too many of the perceived imbalances are people just being terrible at the game. For example, look at how many people still complain about warriors and Hundred Blades, which is extremely easy to prevent and avoid. If ArenaNet nerfed this ability, warriors would be gutted at high-end play, where balance actually matters due to tournament play, because a few people at low-level play have no idea how to move or position.

Besides, low-level players will always find something else to complain about. Bad players have a tendency to blame the game before themselves, which is why they stay bad. The best players are always analyzing how they did and how teammates performed, which is why they consistently improve.

Balancing for bad players is impossible yes, but I’m pretty sure its not the case that more bad players randomly roll up Necromancers than other professions. Because it seems clear that more people struggle with this class (and maybe 1 or 2 others), up until or unless they stick with it long enough to get very good, vs certain other profs.

If enough people are ever going to care about this game to be interested in high level tourneys, you first are going to need a flourishing casual game to cultivate that interest. Which is harder to do when any Joe Shmoe can easily jump on a warrior or thief and do well off the bat, but not so much with Necro or other professions. In fact, I think it hurts a profession like the warrior to be so built or dependent on such simple good/bad mechanics like 100B, where there the dividing line of its effectiveness is so much in the hands of the opponent.

Bhawb.7408:

People actually play PvE other than to casual farm? (Fractals not included, I’m level 2 there). I haven’t found a dungeon hard enough to warrant a real armor set, or in the case of CoE, that armor would actually make a big difference.

Right that’s because the mechanics in dungeons are more about defensive measure independent of gear, dodging or positioning, or simply knowing the mechanics of a fight.

I think in PVE any profession can be good and it really doesn’t matter that much if someone can beat an event 10 seconds faster, as they aren’t directly competing. I really don’t care much for dungeons myself, though I have heard some groups don’t want necros, so that could be a problem if true.

WvW is balanced enough except in the very top tier servers. If you are not in the top 1-2 tiers, you will not regularly run into highly coordinated groups, and you can pretty much do what you want. I often WvW on my alts, which are all level 2-20, and do fine just sitting in the back and spamming ranged abilities. I am significantly weaker than what I could be, obviously, but I can still mess around and enjoy it.

I play almost entirely WvW, and while the Necro’s most effective place might be in a big group or siege warfare, it gets boring doing that all the time. And when I roam alone I do pretty well, but still can’t shake the feeling that if I were to come up against my own self on most other professions, having dedicated the same amount of learning and skill to those professions that I have to my Necro, my Necro would lose more matchups than win, and lose certain ones very decisively.

In other words you can be very good on this profession at an individual skill level, but still very much feels like it takes more effort put in to get less out compared to several others. What a lot of people don’t understand, as very few spread their time evenly across all of GW2, each mode is entirely different and independent of each other, and not all experiences or strategies remain truisms across the different modes.

Anet has a real pickle on their hands trying to sort that out as far as balancing, but not trying is not a good solution. I don’t know the hard numbers, but if I had to hazard a guess, right now I bet the WvW scene is far more active than the sPVP one playerbase wise. The relative forum activity would certainly suggest that as well. So any idea that Anet should only care about sPVP and let the rest of the game tilt in the wind as far as caring about balance, as is somewhat implied by some of the posts here (not yours), would be extremely short-sighted by the developers.

Pendragon.8735:

Right that’s because the mechanics in dungeons are more about defensive measure independent of gear, dodging or positioning, or simply knowing the mechanics of a fight.

Just to mention, that while possible to do (a thief did solo GL), it does burden either time (it took him around 2 hours) or the actual design of a fight (aka exploits and cheating a system in place, like using 30+ fishing nets on the Ghost Eater in AC for a 2 minute immobilize that he cant purge when kited away from the traps).
Some dungeons on the other hand (looking at you CoE and SE) plain have broken bosses or enviorment against specific classes (good example would be the consume condition golem who throws fire aoes and bursn around him… and that should a necro attack how?)

as one leveing my lowly Necro.. i am glad that the community has folk like you! can’t wait to check this out soon. will be looking forward to seeing more casts!

Pendragon.8735:

Balancing for bad players is impossible yes, but I’m pretty sure its not the case that more bad players randomly roll up Necromancers than other professions. Because it seems clear that more people struggle with this class (and maybe 1 or 2 others), up until or unless they stick with it long enough to get very good, vs certain other profs.

If enough people are ever going to care about this game to be interested in high level tourneys, you first are going to need a flourishing casual game to cultivate that interest. Which is harder to do when any Joe Shmoe can easily jump on a warrior or thief and do well off the bat, but not so much with Necro or other professions. In fact, I think it hurts a profession like the warrior to be so built or dependent on such simple good/bad mechanics like 100B, where there the dividing line of its effectiveness is so much in the hands of the opponent.

This actually isn’t true at all. League of Legends has ridiculously complicated mechanics that most people don’t come close to understanding, and it’s hugely successful. Some heroes and positions are completely impossible for bad or new players to manage.

Same deal with Starcraft 2. One race in particular is considered much more difficult than the other two, and some of the strategies and tactics professional players do would be simply impossible for low-level players to grasp.

If there’s one profession that most new players don’t grasp but the best players can pick up later and really get a use out of, that’s fine. It’s normal for any competitive game or sport.

A game needs to have some level of casual play, but it doesn’t have to include every class and role. It’s fine if some classes just aren’t accessible to worse players. That kind of diversity in challenge is good for the game.

Lopez.7369:

Pendragon.8735:

Balancing for bad players is impossible yes, but I’m pretty sure its not the case that more bad players randomly roll up Necromancers than other professions. Because it seems clear that more people struggle with this class (and maybe 1 or 2 others), up until or unless they stick with it long enough to get very good, vs certain other profs.

If enough people are ever going to care about this game to be interested in high level tourneys, you first are going to need a flourishing casual game to cultivate that interest. Which is harder to do when any Joe Shmoe can easily jump on a warrior or thief and do well off the bat, but not so much with Necro or other professions. In fact, I think it hurts a profession like the warrior to be so built or dependent on such simple good/bad mechanics like 100B, where there the dividing line of its effectiveness is so much in the hands of the opponent.

This actually isn’t true at all. League of Legends has ridiculously complicated mechanics that most people don’t come close to understanding, and it’s hugely successful. Some heroes and positions are completely impossible for bad or new players to manage.

Same deal with Starcraft 2. One race in particular is considered much more difficult than the other two, and some of the strategies and tactics professional players do would be simply impossible for low-level players to grasp.

If there’s one profession that most new players don’t grasp but the best players can pick up later and really get a use out of, that’s fine. It’s normal for any competitive game or sport.

A game needs to have some level of casual play, but it doesn’t have to include every class and role. It’s fine if some classes just aren’t accessible to worse players. That kind of diversity in challenge is good for the game.

The difference though is in the skill ceiling. For example; no player will ever reach the skill ceiling in Starcraft 2, a celing only a computer can reach, getting 10,000 APM. In GW2, there is a very disturbingly easy skill ceiling, that most players, including casual players can reach.

Players who make 200k to 400k or more a year playing eSports practice as little as 8 hours a day, to as much as 10 hours a day, or unbelievably, reported by Americans who’ve joined Korean houses, they have reported Korean players practicing for as much as 14 to 16 hours a day.

They even purchase houses, and move in players with equal, or better skill to play against during this time, to hone thier skills.

The perception of imbalance in games like LoL, and GW2 only happens when someone hasn’t put in the time needed to compete with those that are defeating them on a regular basis.

It’s a night, and day difference than playing a relaxing, casual game like GW2.

Lopez.7369:

A game needs to have some level of casual play, but it doesn’t have to include every class and role. It’s fine if some classes just aren’t accessible to worse players. That kind of diversity in challenge is good for the game.

GW2 is primarily a casual play game right now though, and that’s why they need to be concerned with the gameplay at that level. It’s where their revenue is at. Comparing it to LoL and SC2 is a little lofty because right now all it has is aspirations to become a competitive game like that. That likely will never be met unless they can draw a lot more interest in. And in this case bottom up looks more likely to succeed at that than top down. Of course you balance for the top first, but you just don’t stop there.

Lopez.7369:

Pendragon.8735:

Balancing for bad players is impossible yes, but I’m pretty sure its not the case that more bad players randomly roll up Necromancers than other professions. Because it seems clear that more people struggle with this class (and maybe 1 or 2 others), up until or unless they stick with it long enough to get very good, vs certain other profs.

If enough people are ever going to care about this game to be interested in high level tourneys, you first are going to need a flourishing casual game to cultivate that interest. Which is harder to do when any Joe Shmoe can easily jump on a warrior or thief and do well off the bat, but not so much with Necro or other professions. In fact, I think it hurts a profession like the warrior to be so built or dependent on such simple good/bad mechanics like 100B, where there the dividing line of its effectiveness is so much in the hands of the opponent.

This actually isn’t true at all. League of Legends has ridiculously complicated mechanics that most people don’t come close to understanding, and it’s hugely successful. Some heroes and positions are completely impossible for bad or new players to manage.

Same deal with Starcraft 2. One race in particular is considered much more difficult than the other two, and some of the strategies and tactics professional players do would be simply impossible for low-level players to grasp.

If there’s one profession that most new players don’t grasp but the best players can pick up later and really get a use out of, that’s fine. It’s normal for any competitive game or sport.

A game needs to have some level of casual play, but it doesn’t have to include every class and role. It’s fine if some classes just aren’t accessible to worse players. That kind of diversity in challenge is good for the game.

You are aware that the devs for both LoL and SC2 actually DO balance for all levels of play right?

Anyway I thought it was a good podcast. The interviewer said he was rank 40 so he’s far from being an inexperienced player. Good interviews are supposed to have back and forths, it’s what makes them interesting. Like I just watched the one with Khalifa on this power dagger necro and it was boring and I learned absolutely nothing because it was just the interviewer asking Khalifa what his traits are, what his equipment is, etc. You can just link a build calculator for that.