Guild Wars 2

Thanks to Occultist’s Flame, I once again have Torch on the mind for a possible necro weapon. There is no way you can look at this torch and say “not fitting for a necro”.

Now, there are some arguments in favor of a torch. It could give the necro access to burning without the heavily controversial Dhuumfire, for example, leaving necros the ability to cause every condition in the game unassisted (Confusion takes either Runes of Perplexity or comboing Spectral Wall) without the issues of the trait.

However, I have an idea for the #5 skill (assuming it was an offhand) that may work out better for necros.

Ghoulfire
Cast time: 1/2 second
Radius: 360
Recharge: 40
Combo Field: Ice

Starts a Ghoulfire at the Necromancer’s location. Each second, the Ghoulfire pulses a condition, giving the Necromancer 1% life force for each foe struck.

1st second: 5 seconds of Weakness.
2nd second: 4 seconds of Cripple.
3rd second: 3 seconds of Chill.
4th second: 2 seconds of Immobilize.
5th second: Stuns for 1 second.

The idea for the skill is an area that saps more and more of an enemy’s strength, feeding it to the necro. The purpose is really area denial. However, the longer you stay on the field, the harder it is to escape it. Other than in PvE, the 4th and 5th tick would probably never occur outside of the necro using good play. The possibility of 25% life force from a single skill is pretty nice, but since it involves having five enemies on a small area for 5 seconds, it should be!

Thoughts? Also, any suggestions for a partner skill on the torch? I’m thinking something like “Lifesight” where, among other things, it applies the Revealed debuff (like 1 or 2 seconds) to enemies caught in its area.

Too many boons. I love the idea of an ice field, but if we were to get something back per pulse, it would need to either be “necro”-y boons (retaliation), HP, LF, or something similar. I wouldn’t mind if it stole endurance in a way, but I still really don’t want them to start adding many boons.

Point taken. I just picked boons because it used existing mechanics and other than the Chill/Fury and Immobilize/Might, it is a pretty decent “siphoning” setup.

Really what I like most on this idea is the “slow to a stop” punishing aspect.

1 second of quickness would be rather useless.

I really like the concept with it, that the longer and more people are kept in the area that the worse it gets for them, I’d just like for them to keep mechanics Necro-y.

As for a #4 ability, what about something like:
Will-o-Wisp – channels for three seconds, enemies trying to move away from the Necro are slowed by X%, deals damage to all enemies in the area, and gives 2% LF per enemy per second channeled. 240(?) radius

I agree with Bhawb here, that’s way too many boons. I like the idea of that skill but you can easily remove the boon part and just add in a bit of damage instead.

Now as for another skill, I personally hope that if Necros do get torch, burning as an offensive condition will play no part in it.

I would mind seeing something like this:
-
-

Cauterize Wound
Set yourself on fire for 1 second and cure all conditions, gain 5% life force for each condition cured.
-
-

Or something to that effect, self burn is short enough so you can’t self cleanse nor would it be worth spreading it. In addition that would also work decently as a compliment to condi/scepter necros as they have barely any LF gain and self inflict bleed, weakness and vulnerability on themselves frequently. A certain signet of ours would also be in a slightly better position.

I can see torch being an off-hand weapon, only, to apply burning to a single target or within a small radius. Range would be short. A second skill could be some form of condition management with an added blind and direct damage.

Too much fire availability could be a balance issue and burning hits hard enough to warrant limiting range and AoE.

I would think that any Torch the necro gets actually shouldn’t have a ranged burn skill. It’s boring. Everyone burns with torches, so let the necro have their own twist on it and do necro-y things.

What about self burning with some added beneficial effect so that you can transfer the burn back to enemy?

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I would think that any Torch the necro gets actually shouldn’t have a ranged burn skill. It’s boring. Everyone burns with torches, so let the necro have their own twist on it and do necro-y things.

Agreed.

And just to add a bit to my previous suggestion. In GW1 necros had life sacrifice and self inflict conditions. My hope is to see more of this in GW2 as to why I would think a Cauterize skill is quite necro-y, self inflict damage/pain for a potential larger gain.

Targuil.3741:

What about self burning with some added beneficial effect so that you can transfer the burn back to enemy?

Something like, “Set yourself on fire and spread it to 5 enemies.”

The first thing that comes to mind with a Necromancer with a torch is using it like a beacon for the dead, so basing it on ghost/ghoul manipulation for CC skills would be a great way to go. A nice solid CC offhand, or perhaps the first mainhand torch user?

Here’s a few ideas that I think Torch could do conceptually:

Auto-attack being a series of swipes like the scepter, except it’s used to direct ghosts/ghouls to attack the enemy, applying consistant Chill

A thrust of the Torch to send out a wave of spirits, crippling enemies and granting Retaliation(or something) to allies, with some damage?

You raise the Torch to the air, gathering spirits around you dealing radial damage, acting as a Whirl finisher and applying Blind/Chill/Cripple/Immob/Whatever each second

You breath through the flames, sending out a cone of spectral fire which fears and torments enemies

You pull the fire from the Torch and engulf yourself in spectral flames, curing conditions and healing yourself, but also applies Burning

You throw the Torch to a targetted location and teleport to the location, exploding in spectral flames on both ends, fearing enemies in a radius

You hold out the Torch to an enemy and try and suck out their soul, dealing continual damage and stealing boons, every boon stolen is replaced with a 1 second Chill

Some sort of soul sight where your eyes burst into blue/green flame, acting like the Engineer Utility Goggles. Grants boons to the Necro with related conditions against a target, like Might/Vulnerability, Retaliation/Confusion, Protection/Weakness. I’m not too sure on this one but I believe the concept is sound.

Oh my god, I never thought. The torch should… SUMMON A MINION. It can be like Shadow Fiend, but blue and flamey instead and dark and spermy

Edit: more seriously though, I actually am going to flesh out the idea of a minion for torch, I like the idea, and we could summon a “will-o-wisp” flame that inflicts short chill durations (either 1s every attack on longer attack timers like Flesh Wurm, or have flesh-golem like chain that inflicts on last hit), with an active like I described above.

Bhawb.7408:

Oh my god, I never thought. The torch should… SUMMON A MINION. It can be like Shadow Fiend, but blue and flamey instead and dark and spermy

Edit: more seriously though, I actually am going to flesh out the idea of a minion for torch, I like the idea, and we could summon a “will-o-wisp” flame that inflicts short chill durations (either 1s every attack on longer attack timers like Flesh Wurm, or have flesh-golem like chain that inflicts on last hit), with an active like I described above.

I totally agree with you bro ( I mentioned this idea in another thread )
Most of ( if not all ) our minions attack single target ( normal attacks ) so we need minions that attack AOE.
My Idea was to give us new weapon ( torch ) which summon 2 minions ( 4th and 5th skills ) that burn the area around their targets.

I like the idea but as bhawb said, it gots too many boons going on. Maybe it could stack weakness and chill on opponents in the field and grant stacks of might and swiftness depending on how many opponents are in the circle at a certain period. Also no other skill OP?

Summon Will o’ the Wisp: Summons a Will o’ the Wisp that attacks foes, delivering a chilling blow every X seconds. 30s CD.

Grenth’s Beacon: minion channels for four seconds, chilling enemies that move away from him and granting 2% LF per second per enemy in the range. 300 radius, 30s recharge if secondary active not used.

While Channeling press again to activate
Grenth’s Embrace: cancels the channel and pulls enemies towards the center, granting LF. Distance pulled, LF granted, and damage dealt scales up to 150% extra depending on how long Beacon channeled. 50s recharge

Beet.5768:

You throw the Torch to a targeted location and teleport to the location, exploding in spectral flames on both ends, fearing enemies in a radius

The mobility we’ve always wanted, but will never receive

Bhawb.7408:

Oh my god, I never thought. The torch should… SUMMON A MINION. It can be like Shadow Fiend, but blue and flamey instead and dark and spermy

Edit: more seriously though, I actually am going to flesh out the idea of a minion for torch, I like the idea, and we could summon a “will-o-wisp” flame that inflicts short chill durations (either 1s every attack on longer attack timers like Flesh Wurm, or have flesh-golem like chain that inflicts on last hit), with an active like I described above.

But then I’ll lose my most basic complaint against Protection of the Horde!

Or they could add more weapon skills that summon minions and I’d get over it entirely. Hmmmmmmmm…

1. Will-o’-the-wisp: Haunt your foe and inflict 4 seconds of burning and chilled.

1. Soul candle / Soul fire (sequence skill): Summon a dark light at the target location. Foes entering that zone are Revealed (stealth immunity debuff) and gain you life force. / Detonate your Soul candle and fear enemies in the area.

What trait line do you think the torch will compliment?

I think a new weapon should contain a skill inflicting torment.

I also could imagine a necromancer could use a torch as a mainhand weapon

Gnat.9405:

What trait line do you think the torch will compliment?

Either spite for condition duration or Death magic for themeatic purposes, since any sort of “fire” a necro is rightfully channeling is related to the underworld and spirits.

Brujeria.7536:

I also could imagine a necromancer could use a torch as a mainhand weapon

That’s a great idea. It would really set the Necro and other torch users apart.

Skill 1:
Fetid Ground:

Create an area on the ground that chills and Torments enemies. Torment stacks the longer enemies stand in the field
(ice field)

Skill 2: Vile Miasma

Consume each condition and burn foes around you for 1 second for each condition consumed

Or for more mobility:

Taste of Pain : Steal health from nearby foes, cripple (or weaken) them and leap forwards.
Alternatively, the skill can be a leap forwards and THEN the lifesteal + condition effect can occurs.

Or how about : Eternal Fire – Perma-burn every red name on the map for 300 seconds (unclensable).

We should not have access to burning.

Gutbuster.8745:

Cauterize Wound
Set yourself on fire for 1 second and cure all conditions, gain 5% life force for each condition cured.

I love this concept!

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I would think that any Torch the necro gets actually shouldn’t have a ranged burn skill. It’s boring. Everyone burns with torches, so let the necro have their own twist on it and do necro-y things.

Agreed. Allowing it to give vigor would be paramount imo, especially with the nerf to DS.

Salute to the Dead
Jam your torch into the earth (blast finisher), and gain 8s vigor
long cooldown #5 skill

Scorched Earth
Burn the ground around you (fire field) and evade backwards (range 240)
for damage evasion / kinda generic

Stop, Drop, & Roll
Apply 1s burning to self and gain 2s of (necro equivelant of) distortion.
for damage evasion

In Your Face
Wave your torch in your target’s face, causing blind and vulnerability for X seconds
for a non-condition torch

Wil-o’-wisp:
Projectile: Release a slow moving Wil-o’-Wisp that applies confusion to target. If Target is burning, gain vigor.
Ok this one might be kind of OP but I think the confusion aspect is fantastic for this skill: it’s flavorful and it gives us access to the final condition we are unable to produce naturally. It would move similar to the Guardian’s scepter auto attack.

Cremate:
Channel (3 sec): Apply Torment x5. If Target is under 50% HP, apply burning.

This skill will have burning duration and cooldown appropriate to:
a.) Balance with Dhuumfire
b.) Balance with Tainted Shackles

We should not have direct access to confusion, either.

You make these claims often. Can I ask why you’re against having burning/direct confusion? Is it strictly thematic or do you have mechanical reasons why it’s a bad idea?

Bhawb.7408:

Summon Will o’ the Wisp: Summons a Will o’ the Wisp that attacks foes, delivering a chilling blow every X seconds. 30s CD.

Grenth’s Beacon: minion channels for four seconds, chilling enemies that move away from him and granting 2% LF per second per enemy in the range. 300 radius, 30s recharge if secondary active not used.

While Channeling press again to activate
Grenth’s Embrace: cancels the channel and pulls enemies towards the center, granting LF. Distance pulled, LF granted, and damage dealt scales up to 150% extra depending on how long Beacon channeled. 50s recharge

I like this concept, but I’d take it in a different direction. Possibly something like this…

Will-o-the-Wisp
CD TBD
Minimal or no damage.
Inscribe a mark that inflicts Chilled and Weakness when triggered.
Combo Field: Light
Radius: 240
Range 900/600

Grenth’s Beacon
CD TBD
Moderate to high damage.
Inscribe a mark that detonates summoning a Bone Minion.
Combo Finisher: Blast
Radius: 240
Range: 900/600

Softspoken.2410:

But then I’ll lose my most basic complaint against Protection of the Horde!

Or they could add more weapon skills that summon minions and I’d get over it entirely. Hmmmmmmmm…

I’d love to see them put summons on off-hand weapons (only offhands, I don’t think they want their to be full minion setups where you are useless except to summon and control minions).

As for why no direct access to burning/confusion: it’d be insanely hard to make them fun and meaningful, yet still remain balanced. Our condition damage is already on the border of OPness, and giving us any meaningful amount of burning/confusion, especially on an off-hand weapon set is most likely to just throw us over the line.

That’s fair; I very rarely PvP so sometimes I tend to forget about the ramifications of adding skills, especially to a class that is already excelling in that area. Minions on weapons is something that I was hoping for since launch, and would be a great way to make the MM a viable option. I imagined a minion master that used weapons to buff minions for damage/survival rather than to deal damage himself.

So for instance, an auto attack that empowered minions or something of the sort. It’s kind of hard to put into gameplay perspective so I didn’t put a lot of effort into fleshing it out haha.

Would be cool to see some more minion support though; here’s hoping!

Maybe gs with some minions skills like mesmer with ilusions ?

Shadow Fire
Breath out black flames, Chilling foes and Gaining Life Force.

Nothing too fancy, it’d simply give Necro some Power based AoE along with some crowd control and survivability.

Soul Fire
Block the next attack. (2sec)
Counter by applying Burning and Chill to foes around you with a blast of green flames.

Necros don’t have any Blocks and they really could use at least one.
The Burning and Chill keep with the theme of the Torch and Necro.
They reward you for using the Block at close range while surrounded.

You could still use it for Lupicus etc. just for the Block, of course.

Aoe fire field that damages and chills foes.

Gutbuster.8745:

I agree with Bhawb here, that’s way too many boons. I like the idea of that skill but you can easily remove the boon part and just add in a bit of damage instead.

Now as for another skill, I personally hope that if Necros do get torch, burning as an offensive condition will play no part in it.

I would mind seeing something like this:
-
-

Cauterize Wound
Set yourself on fire for 1 second and cure all conditions, gain 5% life force for each condition cured.
-
-

Or something to that effect, self burn is short enough so you can’t self cleanse nor would it be worth spreading it. In addition that would also work decently as a compliment to condi/scepter necros as they have barely any LF gain and self inflict bleed, weakness and vulnerability on themselves frequently. A certain signet of ours would also be in a slightly better position.

I would like to add to this idea. The self burn to cleanse is an awesome idea! If it was part of the game, it would replace my warhorn in a flash of necrotic burning light!

But I would like to ask one thing; when you came up with the idea, was the burning a condition regular burning, only separated by having no white countdown timer and not a removable condition, but still a condition, or was it something like a guardians virtues? or the lich forms icon when in lich form?

If it wasn’t the second option, would condition duration traits/runes increase the burn you would implement on yourself?

This is all tied into my idea, I promise you.

Basically, my idea is adding a ranged/pulse burn. Perhaps depending on the distance of the enemy, will determine how much burn they get(1, 2, or 3 seconds depending on range?). like 239 range produces 3 seconds, 240-500 produces 2 seconds and 500-600 produces 1 second.

Depending if this was added to the skill you came up with, and depending on if the self burn was infact considered a condition, the burning could actually hit multiple times.

Say you only get 1 second of burning, and it only does one hit every second. Well those of us that use high condition duration could get that to 2 seconds, which depending on if you were able to immobilize the enemy for the full duration, could equal a 6 second burn on them.

Its just an idea I thought up to go along with your idea.
That and the burning on you and the enemy should be green.
lol

This Will-O-Wisp skill and Ghoulfire both sound like they would be awesome imo! I would happily accept both, even if Ghoulfire didn’t do what the original idea did, and rather did necromancer type stuff.

Even if it was just a lifeforce gain.

OH what if the last pulse of Ghoulfire summoned a minion? like say.. a Lesser Fleshreaver?!

Okay, just changed my OP for a better version of Ghoulfire. A little weaker, perhaps, but at least more in line with Necro’s current design. I did, however, up the radius by 50% to make the skill more reliable.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Okay, just changed my OP for a better version of Ghoulfire. A little weaker, perhaps, but at least more in line with Necro’s current design. I did, however, up the radius by 50% to make the skill more reliable.

Now thats more like it. There is only one lil hitch though, Idk how reliable in zergs that would be considering the aoe limit. I don’t necessarily know the cap for aoe’s, but if its what I’m thinking(I’m thinking its 5 enemies), thats still 25% lifeforce gained, which is more than enough to use as a small damage absorber if necessary.

It is, though that would at most be 5.5% life force/second (factoring Gluttony). No damage on the skill, so no critting.

In a Zerg vs Zerg, life force is practically an infinite resource anyway. If it’s you vs. zerg, you’re dead anyway, no matter how much life force you’re generating.

In PvP, you are realistically never going to get 25% life force from this skill. More likely you will get a condition or two off and ~3% life force, but you also forced them off the point.

In PvE, you will get the most life force in situations where you really don’t need tons (trash mobs), which is kind of annoying, but it would still be useful against many bosses.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

It is, though that would at most be 5.5% life force/second (factoring Gluttony). No damage on the skill, so no critting.

In a Zerg vs Zerg, life force is practically an infinite resource anyway. If it’s you vs. zerg, you’re dead anyway, no matter how much life force you’re generating.

In PvP, you are realistically never going to get 25% life force from this skill. More likely you will get a condition or two off and ~3% life force, but you also forced them off the point.

In PvE, you will get the most life force in situations where you really don’t need tons (trash mobs), which is kind of annoying, but it would still be useful against many bosses.

True.

Question; does it act like a well or have a well aoe size? or more like a mark? or is it like some sort of aura that just emits from the necromancer? Just wondering on the size of the skill.

I really, really like the idea. Seems fairly balanced at first look, I love how it scales with more people, and appears to have fun and meaningful play/counterplay.

This whole thread is full of win. I’m going to mail an anet guy about it. xD

ArtemusHunter.9521:

Question; does it act like a well or have a well aoe size? or more like a mark? or is it like some sort of aura that just emits from the necromancer? Just wondering on the size of the skill.

Function is very similar to a well, just doesn’t interact with the Well traits.

Gnat.9405:

You make these claims often. Can I ask why you’re against having burning/direct confusion? Is it strictly thematic or do you have mechanical reasons why it’s a bad idea?

Burning is a “burst” condition. We have a lot of ways of deploying condition pressure, laying down a burning on top of it is too much.
Mostly the same for Confusion.
And neither really thematically fit the necro playstyle, as both are signature conditions of other scholar classes.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

ArtemusHunter.9521:

Question; does it act like a well or have a well aoe size? or more like a mark? or is it like some sort of aura that just emits from the necromancer? Just wondering on the size of the skill.

Function is very similar to a well, just doesn’t interact with the Well traits.

Alright. well that’s fine. lol

@Artemus

The self inflicted burn would be the normal burning condition and affected by condition duration, same as all other self inflicted conditions.

Whilst I’m still not really on board with torch being an offensive burn weapon I do kinda like your idea as it would involve my necro exploding in a fiery flash of green flames, potentially.

Mind you, both a condition cleanse, LF gain and offensive burn might be a lot for one skill, especially if the burn duration is several seconds. But then again it wouldn’t be “too different” then Smite Condition for guardians. Except with ours we would also inflict at least 2 ticks of burn on ourselves potentially costing us a fair bit of HP.

So really, might actually be fairly balanced. As I said above, I would like to see this type of necro-y play make a come back, you will damage yourself but for a large potential gain. Ie it is a strong skill yes, but it doesn’t come without a drawback/sacrifice.

Hmm, yes I do like it.

Gutbuster.8745:

@Artemus

The self inflicted burn would be the normal burning condition and affected by condition duration, same as all other self inflicted conditions.

Whilst I’m still not really on board with torch being an offensive burn weapon I do kinda like your idea as it would involve my necro exploding in a fiery flash of green flames, potentially.

Mind you, both a condition cleanse, LF gain and offensive burn might be a lot for one skill, especially if the burn duration is several seconds. But then again it wouldn’t be “too different” then Smite Condition for guardians. Except with ours we would also inflict at least 2 ticks of burn on ourselves potentially costing us a fair bit of HP.

So really, might actually be fairly balanced. As I said above, I would like to see this type of necro-y play make a come back, you will damage yourself but for a large potential gain. Ie it is a strong skill yes, but it doesn’t come without a drawback/sacrifice.

Hmm, yes I do like it.

Self-Sacrifice for the ultimate goal; the necromancer’s way of life!
:D

If they don’t have a skill called cremate I’ll be disapointed

How about this for the #4?

Will-O-Wisp
Minion
Cast time: 1 second
Recharge: 30 seconds
Summons a Will-O-Wisp minion. Will-O-Wisps continue to attack stealthed targets, pulse burning on themselves and they have a blast of flame attack once every ten seconds that burns enemies within the radius (blast finisher).

The blast attack is similar to a Bone Fiend’s crippling attack. It is not the only attack that the Will-O-Wisp performs, but once every ten seconds, it performs this ability instead.

There is plenty of counterplay by those facing the necromancer to avoid the worst of this skill, ranging from killing the minion to timing your avoidance with the blast attack. In addition, the synergy between this and some other Necro skills (Plague Signet and Well of Power both have interesting possibilities) could provide some interesting play options.

Two main problems with that skill. One is that it is too counter-stealth, that will eat up a lot of “strength” of the skill because of how strong it’d be against stealth, and yet that is such a niche use. The other is that it doesn’t seem like it’d be that unique, really. Feels like Shatter/Putrid Explosion, but with slightly different effects.