Guild Wars 2

Note: This will be for WvW purposes only at this time.
Note 2: I’m not going for a glass cannon build; I just would like input from people who actually know what they’re doing with the math better than I do.

Ok so, I’m trying to figure out, for my specific build, how much damage I would be giving up if I drop Signet of Spite. I used it in a condi build a while back and now I’m tinkering with it in a power build for the passive 180 power. I noticed, however, that the power does not stay active while in death shroud so it has become less appealing when compared to Well of Power; especially seeing as WoP offers more utility/versatility.

My base attack without SoS is 1910 (2850 power plus 250 can be added here for sigils). My crit (base) is 14% but is bumped to 21% with food and since I will always have this I would prefer to use the 21%. Critical damage is just at 50%.

Weapons being used are Axe/Focus and Dagger/Warhorn but I pop in and out of Death Shroud a lot; this is why I’m curious if the 180 power is really giving me anything in the first place.

I have 1 sigil on each weapon set giving 5% damage and gain another 5% damage while my LF is above 50%.

Other traits to note are: Reaper’s Might and Unyielding Blast. This isn’t something you have to consider while calculating but I would take some tips on 1) If they are useful/worth having; and 2) if staying in Death Shroud and using the 1 auto attack to build these is gimping my damage.

Mainly I’ve been popping into Death Shroud as soon as it’s full and just blasting my target until I’m either close to 50% or until my CD’s (like healing) are up if I’m taking a lot of pressure.

Thanks in advance for anyone that takes the time to do this. I r t3h nub.

A link to a build calculator would’ve helped.
But either way, your question isn’t that easy to answer. If you want to know how much more damage you do if you’re not in DS then just hit some npc with and without the signet and look at the damage log.
In PvP the situation dictates how much time you can afford to stay in or out of DS. No one will be able to tell you something like: you’ll be spending 63% in Shroud and therefore the signets passive takes effect 37% of which you need to substract another 13% for using heals and other non-damaging skills…

The right advice to give here is rather obvious: drop the signet!
Well of Power will make you survive longer, that’s more important in WvW.

Dmg (avg) = ((Avg. Weapon Dmg) * (Power + (10 * Bloodlust) + (35 * Might)) * (Dmg Multipliers) * Skill Coefficient * ((Non-Crit Damage * Non-Crit Chance) + ((1.5 + Crit Damage) * Crit Chance)) / Target Armor

Or if you don’t need to know specifics you can simplify it for “effective power” and the formula would look like this:

Effective Power = (Power + (10 * Bloodlust) + (35 * Might)) * (Dmg Multipliers) * ((1 * .Non-Crit Chance) + ((1.5 + .Crit Damage) * .Crit Chance))

Or if you just want to know how much of a damage increase you would get from adding power you can do this:

(Power + AddedPower) / (Power) = 1.xxyy

And xxyy would be the damage increase percent.

All you have to do to figure this out for yourself is replicate your build on http://en.gw2skills.net/ and plug in the numbers on google.

Sartori.6758:

Effective Power = (Power + (10 * Bloodlust) + (35 * Might)) * (Dmg Multipliers) * ((1 * .Non-Crit Chance) + ((1.5 + .Crit Damage) * .Crit Chance))

I must add, thats not actually how crits work with skills, but a good numerical representation of your damage potential.

Thanks for the inputs. I suppose the old “go to the Mist and wail on some golems” method is the best option. Probably should have just done that instead of wasting forum space xD

Anyway, thanks guys. Odds are, I’ll just play it safe and sac the damage and go with WoP; Condi removal and a third stun break (although redundant) seems more versatile than the power gain while out of DS.

Chesire.9043:

Thanks for the inputs. I suppose the old “go to the Mist and wail on some golems” method is the best option. Probably should have just done that instead of wasting forum space xD

Anyway, thanks guys. Odds are, I’ll just play it safe and sac the damage and go with WoP; Condi removal and a third stun break (although redundant) seems more versatile than the power gain while out of DS.

If you really wanna go into the math, no SoS is not worth it in a DS/Power build, over a 5 minute fight you get 18-22% of vampiric rituals value from it (since they still do damage and try to heal you), so not having it at all compared to a relatively bad/medicore trait in said build would probably be better (13000 vs 2600~).
That ofc is if you drop said wells on zerg (which should be the default status of wells in wvwvw), not solo.

Thanks Andele.

Only thing is, I’m not using the traditional well bombing build(s) with power so no VR; it’s more like I’m using one of those “viable but likely less efficient for WvW” builds. It still has AE but is more single target focused. So on paper Signet of Spite seems like the 180 passive power would help with “bursting” or overall damage, but I’ve also tried BiP which I didn’t see any noticeable difference either.

After thinking about it like this, WoP just for some condi cleansing seems more useful and versatile. I just hate giving up free damage. You know? Guess I’m just a sucker for big numbers.

I’ll post a build link once I get a little more time to play with it so the concept is clearer. Just trying to avoid the trolls until I get a feel for everything.

Chesire.9043:

Thanks Andele.

Only thing is, I’m not using the traditional well bombing build(s) with power so no VR; it’s more like I’m using one of those “viable but likely less efficient for WvW” builds. It still has AE but is more single target focused. So on paper Signet of Spite seems like the 180 passive power would help with “bursting” or overall damage, but I’ve also tried BiP which I didn’t see any noticeable difference either.

After thinking about it like this, WoP just for some condi cleansing seems more useful and versatile. I just hate giving up free damage. You know? Guess I’m just a sucker for big numbers.

I’ll post a build link once I get a little more time to play with it so the concept is clearer. Just trying to avoid the trolls until I get a feel for everything.

Bip is actually more the bursty skill for power while spite is for condi (350 bonus power and cond damage for 12 seconds that works in DS and applies fodder for consume condition vs 180 that doesnt and is there all the time as long as you dont wanna make a enemy waste their cleanse on kinda meh condis if on a power build).
But truly its falls down to playstyle, pick what you are more comfy with and will play better, no necro skill (except kinda sorta lich) has much of a notable dps impact, unlike stuff like time warp and fiery greatsword.

Andele.1306:

Sartori.6758:

Effective Power = (Power + (10 * Bloodlust) + (35 * Might)) * (Dmg Multipliers) * ((1 * .Non-Crit Chance) + ((1.5 + .Crit Damage) * .Crit Chance))

I must add, thats not actually how crits work with skills, but a good numerical representation of your damage potential.

That’s what it’s supposed to be, a number you can use to compare damage on gear/stats assuming you’re using the same weapon. I guess to further clarify, if OP wants to find out crit/non-crit damage for a particular skill then use these formulas:

Non-Crit Damage = (Weapon Dmg) * (Power) * (Dmg Multipliers) * Skill Coefficient/ Target Armor

Critical Damage = (Weapon Dmg) * (Power) * (Dmg Multipliers) * Skill Coefficient * (1.5 + Crit Damage) / Target Armor

Skill coefficients can be found on the gw2 wiki.

Sartori.6758:

Andele.1306:

Sartori.6758:

Effective Power = (Power + (10 * Bloodlust) + (35 * Might)) * (Dmg Multipliers) * ((1 * .Non-Crit Chance) + ((1.5 + .Crit Damage) * .Crit Chance))

I must add, thats not actually how crits work with skills, but a good numerical representation of your damage potential.

That’s what it’s supposed to be, a number you can use to compare damage on gear/stats assuming you’re using the same weapon. I guess to further clarify, if OP wants to find out crit/non-crit damage for a particular skill then use these formulas:

Non-Crit Damage = (Weapon Dmg) * (Power) * (Dmg Multipliers) * Skill Coefficient/ Target Armor

Critical Damage = (Weapon Dmg) * (Power) * (Dmg Multipliers) * Skill Coefficient * (1.5 + Crit Damage) / Target Armor

Skill coefficients can be found on the gw2 wiki.

We are right now talking about this: I say saying pi is 3 isnt correct for practical use, you say pi as 3 can still be used, result, the zerker flies into jupiter instead of landing on the moon.

Andele.1306:

Sartori.6758:

Andele.1306:

Sartori.6758:

Effective Power = (Power + (10 * Bloodlust) + (35 * Might)) * (Dmg Multipliers) * ((1 * .Non-Crit Chance) + ((1.5 + .Crit Damage) * .Crit Chance))

I must add, thats not actually how crits work with skills, but a good numerical representation of your damage potential.

That’s what it’s supposed to be, a number you can use to compare damage on gear/stats assuming you’re using the same weapon. I guess to further clarify, if OP wants to find out crit/non-crit damage for a particular skill then use these formulas:

Non-Crit Damage = (Weapon Dmg) * (Power) * (Dmg Multipliers) * Skill Coefficient/ Target Armor

Critical Damage = (Weapon Dmg) * (Power) * (Dmg Multipliers) * Skill Coefficient * (1.5 + Crit Damage) / Target Armor

Skill coefficients can be found on the gw2 wiki.

We are right now talking about this: I say saying pi is 3 isnt correct for practical use, you say pi as 3 can still be used, result, the zerker flies into jupiter instead of landing on the moon.

Right. I really have no idea what you’re talking about now, so I’m just going to leave this here:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Critical_hit

Andele.1306:

But truly its falls down to playstyle, pick what you are more comfy with and will play better, no necro skill (except kinda sorta lich) has much of a notable dps impact, unlike stuff like time warp and fiery greatsword.

Unfortunately that’s something I’m coming to realize, but it also means Necro players have to truly hone and develop skill if you want to play anything that we aren’t pigeon holed since we have no way of escape really.

I think I’ll start filming my game play and may make one to put up on the forums for better players to criticize (as bad as that may feed the trolls). I have noticed a few mistakes on my own with situational awareness and look around when I die only to see that I had over extended or tunnel visioned too much.

Baby steps I suppose. Thanks a lot, again, for the constructive input Andele.

Sartori.6758:

I’m just going to leave this here:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Critical_hit

Thank you for the links. I actually tinkered around with that before posting but in the end I wasn’t sure that I was making any real progress towards useful information. I probably just didn’t go into enough depth with it and need to look through it some more as well as go in game to test it all on golems.