[Build] Conditions (Is it still worth it?)
Even the best hybrid build for necro isnt really worth playing in PvE. I have tested it and so have others, you just end up loosing overall DPS. Not sure how condi builds perform in dungeons but im satisfied with standart zerk. Good life force regen makes up for your lack of armor anyway.
In the newer content having condition builds is very much becoming worth it. The issue is not atm the damage potential of a condi class. Its the issue of interference by other players.
Namely. When a power build starts applying large stacks of bleeds.
Confusion and torement focused builds run little chance of being over ridden by other players. As the only people applying massive amounts of these two conditions will be people specced into them. So in combat styles the new content has promoted tis often well worth investing in them. I was in a group with three torment mesmers in my last silverwaste run on husk while I was on my burn guardian (testing out a sinister armor set)
My burn was ALWAYS ticking (since in non stacking conditions the highest ticker will ALWAYS have priority and guardians have the highest burn in the game now) and the mesmers with me said they had absolutely no issue with people over riding there torment. (probably because its rare for builds to appear that could produce massive amounts of it)
As for necros. Here we start to have an issue. Necros dont have anything like a mesmers high torment application or a burn guardians guaranteed high tick.
We do however have one of the highest spread of conditions in the game. But most of our damage comes from (correct me if im wrong) bleeding with bursts of burning.
The issue with condi necro there is that our bleeding which makes up a CHUNK of our damage is easily applied by an absolutely stupid number of POWER builds in the game.
Meaning alot of people are stupidly putting on numerous bleed stacks without even thinking about how much that screws over the necros. Because frankly they dont care.
I honestly find it more annoying than rangers longbow fouring mobs away from me when im meleeing. Even though its pretty much the same thing.
What id like to see is ANET put damaging condition applications in areas that only builds that USE condition damage will find them. So we atleast know as condi necros that when we see our ticks drop momentarrily that were STILL doing our part in making sure the boss is bleeding for a massive amount. Thats the part where we can start organizing and seeing just how many condi necromancers we have.
TLDR: Condi builds are actually very good in the silverwastes as long as idiotic power build users dont go around spamming condition applications. Power necros shouldnt be spamming staff 2 for example unless they need to put regen on themselves. Its actually a better dps method to use staff one again to get your life force up faster so you can reenter deathshroud when you need it. If a solution could be made to seperate conditions/power/hybrid builds when it comes to bleeding and making sure each condi build has its own sure fire “tick” I think alot more condi personnel will appear in PvE
Ghost Yak
I didnt actually try condi in pve. As you said the bleeds have a cap. But bosses dont perform skills fastly enough for confusion to be worth it do they? Also most bosses dont even move making torment inferior to bleeds or burns. Also you need time to set up and apply condis where standard powers just dps right away. Again i havent tested their effectiveness but this is my view so far.
Honestly I feel bleeds should work like burning. With lower damaging ticks being unable to over ride higher damaging ones. Meaning that its normal application until you hit 25 stacks. But if you have 5 stacks for 200 damage and 20 stacks for 50 damage the next bleed for 80 damage should over ride one of the 50s and not the 200s. Letting the stacks for 200 do there full damage before dissapearing unless someone applied enough 200+ stacks to over ride THOSE.
Ghost Yak
I didnt actually try condi in pve. As you said the bleeds have a cap. But bosses dont perform skills fastly enough for confusion to be worth it do they? Also most bosses dont even move making torment inferior to bleeds or burns. Also you need time to set up and apply condis where standard powers just dps right away. Again i havent tested their effectiveness but this is my view so far.
If you look at the new bosses most of them are actually quite mobile. Champion Teragriffs, Thrashers (the ones that spin away leaving toxin behind), Mordrem Wolves, and even the husk boss (something that needs to CONSTANTLY be kited) are all almost continuous movement fights.
Mordrem wolves are also quite susceptible to confusion in relation to there counterparts. With a fairly high auto attack speed compared to most mobs.
OLD content is bad for conditions such as confusion and torment thats definetly true.
But the newer content anet has put out has actually been receiving condition users alot more openly than those before. I think thats partly why they released the sinister set. its there way of saying (hey we made situations where these builds are actually useful…come try them out if you can realize there here)
Id be willing to bet CASH that HOT will have alot of fights where specialized condition builds can shine. Bosses with high movement for torment. Mobs with high attack speeds for confusion. Aoe fights for burning guardians. And even mobs with rapid fire area effect skills for condi guards specced into retaliation (provided the bug gets fixed of course :P),
Anet has been learning from there mistakes. The issue is people continue to judge condition builds on old content. Where the newer style of fighting thats been put forth is alot more friendly. In the open field fights with numerous targets you dont have to worry about some power twit pushing 20 per stack bleeds over your 150+ per stack bleeds like an idiot. And the boss fights themselves are becoming more accepting of specialized builds like torment mesmer (champ teragriffs and champ husks MELT to torment mesmers with kiting)
as long as this is the stlye future content gets released. The biggest issue is gonna be our power focused brethren applying worthless bleeds than honest competition between condi players.
Ghost Yak
After playing with this build I have noticed that it is not at all good for PvE. You can do PvE but not very well. Dungeons and Fractals 1-9 are okay but past that im not sure. PvP wise this build works nice and I can do a lot with it espically in WvW just roaming around or soloing in PvP. Thank you everyone above for all the info and it really did help.
TLDR: Condi builds are actually very good in the silverwastes as long as idiotic power build users dont go around spamming condition applications.
Like there is much of a choice when every darn skill apply some condition…
Anyway, after coming back from a years break and playing up my necro (first time in 2 years its above level 40 lol) its easy to see that the same PvE mechanics still apply. Conditions are pointless. You can have them as a side trick, little else. Playing with power/precision is just so much more fun – and incidently, a direct damage dagger/dagger necro is stupid fun.
I would argue that direct damage is far more fun in WvW as well, but conditions do have a tendancy to slaughter unprepared people.
Because, what necro really needs, is his own unique condition, which is not available for other classes. It can be just bleed with different name.
Otherwise in PvE conditions necro is kind of pointless (even if it is fun to play), because every kitten class in game, can apply stupid amount of bleeds, with every attack.
Lets hope, necros will get some unique condition with Hots.
Because, what necro really needs, is his own unique condition, which is not available for other classes. It can be just bleed with different name.
Otherwise in PvE conditions necro is kind of pointless (even if it is fun to play), because every kitten class in game, can apply stupid amount of bleeds, with every attack.Lets hope, necros will get some unique condition with Hots.
Torment was meant to be a necromancer condition, and look how we got the least access to it out of the classes that can do it.
Here’s an idea for a condition/power build I have for my necro. I enjoy playing as this build but was wondering if it was worth continuing it or if I could build it better. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRQQNArYWn0IS5N2YDW3A/NmoXogeMDg2N6HYCyAqGDA-TRSAABKcGAAV9HnViJ9hAQMlHA8AAGUfTP7P0mSwAAHA7W36ub6u7u7+5nf+5nfud3d3d3d3SBAzcA-e any ideas what I should do with this?
i run hybrid necro for some time (scepter-dagger/axe-focus). For fractals it was sort of ok. for any other type of dungeon, the zerkers in the group would massacre everything before I could build enough stacks of bleed worth spreading.
But then again, even if it was ok for fractals, I still didn’t contribute anything special to the party. No might stacking, no protection, poor vulnerability stacking on bosses, no fire fields, no nothing worth writing home about.
Here’s an idea for a condition/power build I have for my necro. I enjoy playing as this build but was wondering if it was worth continuing it or if I could build it better. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRQQNArYWn0IS5N2YDW3A/NmoXogeMDg2N6HYCyAqGDA-TRSAABKcGAAV9HnViJ9hAQMlHA8AAGUfTP7P0mSwAAHA7W36ub6u7u7+5nf+5nfud3d3d3d3SBAzcA-e any ideas what I should do with this?
Dump Hemophilia and Sigil of Agony entirely. Like all conditions, Bleeding has a +100% duration cap. From traits and food, you have +70% right there, and the Runes of the Krait bump you up to +115% Bleeding duration (you have wasted duration already). You have a trait and sigil that are doing absolutely nothing. Use Weakening Shroud in that trait slot instead.
The Sigil of Malice on your staff is less of a concern. Although it’s not increasing your bleeds at all, it does bump everything else while you’re on staff.
Also, generally speaking, you only need Sigil of Corruption on one weapon set. Having it on both only means you don’t need to keep in mind which weapon set you’re on when you get kills.
Here’s an idea for a condition/power build I have for my necro. I enjoy playing as this build but was wondering if it was worth continuing it or if I could build it better. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRQQNArYWn0IS5N2YDW3A/NmoXogeMDg2N6HYCyAqGDA-TRSAABKcGAAV9HnViJ9hAQMlHA8AAGUfTP7P0mSwAAHA7W36ub6u7u7+5nf+5nfud3d3d3d3SBAzcA-e any ideas what I should do with this?
Dump Hemophilia and Sigil of Agony entirely. Like all conditions, Bleeding has a +100% duration cap. From traits and food, you have +70% right there, and the Runes of the Krait bump you up to +115% Bleeding duration (you have wasted duration already). You have a trait and sigil that are doing absolutely nothing. Use Weakening Shroud in that trait slot instead.
The Sigil of Malice on your staff is less of a concern. Although it’s not increasing your bleeds at all, it does bump everything else while you’re on staff.
Also, generally speaking, you only need Sigil of Corruption on one weapon set. Having it on both only means you don’t need to keep in mind which weapon set you’re on when you get kills.
What would you suggest to replace the sigil then? Something like bloodlust or cruelty or something more like nullification? Also would it be better to replace the staff with a Rampager’s staff to replace the sigil on it with Nullification/ something to do with crits? ( http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRQQNArYWn0IS5N2YDW3A/NmoXogeMDg2N6KYCyAqGDA-TBDBAB8pJgSlgHcCA6U9nqVeAyRAYZlYPfIAA4AEAoeGGeAA6s/QAgDgdrbd3Nd3d3d/8zP/8zP3u7u7u7ubpAgZOA-e )
Only one stacking sigil will function at a time, so don’t use Bloodlust. I would suggest Sigil of Bursting instead.
I have found a condition damage build is not very spectacular in the older dungeons due to bleed caps. Newer content and open world fare better but any target tough enough to take several people to defeat will get capped in bleeding, burning, poison, and vulnerability at the minimum leaving you with only a fraction of the condition damage potential and your direct damage., which is why power builds are talked about more often in PvE.