Guild Wars 2

June 2016
Updated build calculator links: WvW, PvP, PvE
I will not update the written guide below (for now), so be advised that a lot of it referes to outdated versions of this build.

Updated August 22, 2015

The original build had 3 corruption skills and the Master of Corruption trait, hence “Staff+Corruption”. I won’t change the title of the thread, just know that it used to be a more fitting and perhaps less misleading description of what this build really is today.

What is this build about:

• This is a staff build. Contrary to popular believe it’s not just a support or wvw-siege weapon, but in this build you can use it as your main.
• It is a hybrid build.
• It’s an all-purpose build that can be used in every game mode.

WvW (solo roaming or zergs) – (outdated build link)

PvP – (outdated build link)

PvE – (outdated build link)
Side note: this build is not optimized for something like dungeons or fractals. (then again, if you want to be king in PvE you shouldn’t play necro in the first place)

Gameplay:

This damage sample is outdated (I will make a new one) but the skill rotation still works:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNi_HLJX8gE

The reasoning behind the build:

The big questions: why bother going with a build that is different from the meta? Why the same build for all game modes? Why pick a hybrid instead of straight up maxing out a single prefix for a pure power or pure condi build?
There’s no simple answer, a lot of the gear and traits have to be seen in context of the entire build or the potential fights you’re going to have, which means that some explanations require an approach similar to the “chicken or egg” causality dilemma. For example: did I like the staff and therefore tried to make a build that would incorporate it in the best possible way, or did I want to make a hybrid and then chose the weapons that fulfilled that role? Considering how long I’ve been using this build and how old this thread is by now, there is of course a historic component to how it evolved with every patch. However, most elements of the build are connected in a synergetic way, so rest assured that it works even if it looks weird on paper.

TRAITS

Specializations:

With the way specializations have streamlined the trait system, making the right choice for any build has become less a matter of picking the best 3, but rather evaluating which 2 you need the least.
In case of this build Death Magic is by far the least attractive, which narrows our choice down to 3 out of 4.
So here’s the tricky part: the weapon traits for this build are in Spite, Blood Magic and Soul Reaping. But Curses has all the juicy condition traits and some buffs to critical chance which are very important for this hybrid.
Interim conclusion: one of our weapons can’t get its respective trait.
You might be surprised that I ended up dropping Soul Reaping/Soul Marks for a build that advocates being a staff build. It was indeed a very tough choice to make, after all, not having unblockable marks in PvP or WvW is a huge drawback. However, Soul Marks is almost the only reason I would pick Soul Reaping at all, while it is a great specialization in general, trading it for either Spite or Blood Magic just wouldn’t be worth it.

SPITE

The reason I need Spite for this build is the might and vulnerability stacking in the minor traits, as well as the cd reductions for the axe.

Adept: Spiteful Renewal vs Bitter Chill

For obvious reasons I have picked the offensive option over the defensive one in PvE, but against players I actually prefer Spiteful Renewal.

Side note: before the trait system rework Bitter Chill was previewed to inflict 5 stacks of vulnerability which might have given it a slight edge, now it only gives 3 stacks (a balancing decision because of the Reaper, no doubt). Additionally, Unholy Fervor was previewed to give a 10% damage increase against vulnerable foes (now it’s just 10% to axe skills), which would’ve definitely made Bitter Chill the best choice for this build.

Anyway, 3 stacks of vulnerability, while not entirely negligible as it not only increases both condi and direct damage but also provides a cover condition, its impact in high frequency cleansing environments like PvP and WvW is too little to justify not taking Spiteful Renewal instead.
Spiteful Renewal does, however, have some issues: the healing doesn’t work through Shroud and the proc-requirement combination of “condition on you + strike a foe + health threshold + icd” makes this one completely unpredictable. I usually try to avoid uncontrollable procs but the cd of only 5 sec makes Spiteful Renewal a somewhat decent cleansing trait.

Master: Chill of Death vs Unholy Fervor

First of all, is Chill of Death a good trait? Definitely. It has the potential to outperform Unholy Fervor by far. But the problem is this: with a lot of aoe and opponents with minions/clones/pets/turrets there’s a very good chance that the trait will proc on some unwanted target and go on cooldown.

So what’s the upside to taking Unholy Fervor instead:

• The cd reduction for the life force regeneration on Ghastly Claws.
  I can’t stress enough how important the sustain aspect here is. The cast time of Ghastly Claws combined with the lower cd means you can use it twice in 10.9 seconds, which is barely more than the cd of swapping weapons. So sometimes Unholy Fervor makes the difference between using Ghastly Claws once or twice before switching back to staff or going into Shroud. Of course you’ll do more damage this way as well, but more importantly generating an extra 12% life force or enough to go into Death Shroud at all can be the deciding factor of a fight.

• The synergy with Spiteful Spirit.
  Spiteful Spirit has the same cd as Unholy Feast. At this point I should mention that a cd for a trait doesn’t make sense if it’s also gated by the cd of Shroud. It does happen quite often that you’re staying in Shroud for less than 5 seconds, in which case the original 15 sec cd would be lapped by one Shroud cycle and effectively double or triple the icd of Spiteful Spirit.
  With Unholy Fervor, however, you reduce the cd of Unholy Feast to 12 seconds. And while it still happens on rare occasions that the cd of Spiteful Spirit is skipped when I spend less than 2 sec in Shroud, for the most part Unholy Fervor removes the icd of Spiteful Spirit and lets you cast Unholy Feast every time you go into Death Shroud.

Grandmaster: Spiteful Spirit vs Close to Death

Like I said, when the cd for Unholy Feast is traited to be low enough Spiteful Spirit becomes a great trait. What used to be (until June 2015) a simple 3 sec of retaliation on DS entry is now a trait that procs an aoe boon corrupting skill which can give you perma retaliation all on its own. And combined with the amount of power this build has, the damage potential of retaliation is actually quite high.

In PvE the damage modifier of Close to Death usually means more dps.

Some words on Signets of Suffering: a great trait for signet builds, not so much for this build even though it uses Plague Sending and Blood Bond. The cd reduction for those two signet procs would be nice, but like I said, I try to avoid hidden icds and rng as much as possible, and Signets of Suffering would only synergize with that.

CURSES

More conditions, more condition damage, more critical chance. Perfect for a hybrid build.

Adept: Plague Sending

Basically the default trait for any necro who uses Curses these days.
Terrifying Descent (a falling damage trait) is out of the question. And Chilling Darkness (chilled on blindness) would be way too situational for this build as it would only work with transfers, corrupted fury or blasting wells with Putrid Mark.
Bottom line, I’m forced to take a hidden icd signet proc. Not great, especially for PvE, but against other players Plague Signet is actually quite powerful. Occasionally it can save your life and hard counter condi builds, so overall I’m not complaining.

Master: Terror

The damage isn’t much, in fact I think it should be merged with a minor trait, but the buff Terror gives to certain skill rotations is enough to make it a worthy pick over the other traits in this tier.
You might think that Master of Corruption would be a decent choice here, maybe for the cd reduction of Epidemic and Blood is Power in PvE, or a 20 sec cd Consume Conditions in PvP. But the additional self-inflicted conditions spoil the trait and don’t justify the loss of Terror.
Path of Corruption: 2 corrupted boons on a 15 sec cd skill isn’t exactly mind blowing. I would take it if Terror wasn’t competing for the slot, but it’s not really necessary considering all the other boon corrupting skills the build has. I’m sure Path of Corruption will be more popular in combination with the Reaper’s 6 sec cd Death’s Charge.

Grandmaster: Weakening Shroud

Not only is this an excellent trait, but it’s also an easy pick over Lingering Curse (because no scepter) and Parasitic Contagion (because no one should use this as long as it doesn’t work in Shroud).

BLOOD MAGIC

What used to be by far the worst necro trait line is now one of the best specializations.
Blood Magic is the complete package, there’s support, there’s damage and most importantly: there’s healing that works through Shroud and scales with the number of opponents.
Also, with Blood Magic we get the traits for the warhorn and wells.

Adept: Blood Bond

A lot of traits in Blood Magic are default picks for this build and Blood Bond is one of them. No dagger, no Quickening Thirst. No tank/heal/rez build, no Ritual of Life.
Blood Bond is a good trait though. The Lesser Signet of Vampirism provides some decent healing and extra damage. Beware that it is bugged at the moment. Unlike the original Signet of Vampirism, the active leeching charges will not heal you through Shroud. And like the original Signet of Vampirism, it requires facing your target, so if you happen to inflict enough bleeding on targets behind you (which happens all the time) the trait will trigger the signet but it will miss and go on cooldown.

Master: Banshee’s Wail vs Vampiric Presence.

Banshee’s Wail turns a good weapon into an amazing weapon. 20% cd reduction combined with a 50% effectiveness increase almost doubles the uptime of Locust Swarm, which then provides (almost) perma swiftness on its own and inflicts over 4 seconds of cripple per hit when combined with food. And turning the unblockable aoe daze of Wail of Doom from 2 sec (30 sec cd) into 3 sec (24 sec cd) might not sound like a lot, but the difference really is huge.

So when is Vampiric Presence a viable alternative? During some group content in PvE or zerg fights in WvW if there are no other necros providing Vampric Auras. Sometimes extra leeching hits from allies can net a higher total dps than your extra Locust Swarm ticks. So considering a trait switch here is rather a matter of buffing team damage than survivability. Of course, depending on the situation, you might actually get better sustain with Vampiric Presence, but the cd reduction and effectiveness increase of Banshee’s Wail can usually make up for that with more life force, better kiting ability and a higher frequency of dazing your opponents.

Grandmaster: Vampiric Rituals

Again a default choice since Unholy Martyr and Transfusion would only fit a support/tank/minion type of build. But as it happens wells are great utility skills, so being able to pick Vampiric Rituals here plays right into our hand. And it’s a great trait too, now we get our wells with lower cooldowns, protection and about ~150 extra damage and healing per pulse and hit, which means that each well has the potential to deal an extra 900 damage per target and heal us for up to 4.5k hp (before factoring in might stacks and Last Rites)

WEAPONS

The Staff is generally considered a mandatory pick in PvP as a secondary weapon for its utility, and a suboptimal choice for PvE. Why is it different for this build? Well, it both is and isn’t. It is different in the sense that the gear and trait choices support a playstyle that is different from other builds. And it isn’t different in the sense that the staff is generally underrated as a primary weapon. A lot of players don’t even realize how often they use the staff even if they see it as their secondary weapon. Part of this mentality comes from a time when not every build had the old Staff Mastery (lower mark cds) and Greater Marks (240 radius + unblockable) trait combo in Death Magic. In June 2015 every old staff trait was either baselined or – in case of unblockable marks – merged with Soul Marks in Soul Reaping. And since Soul Reaping is a popular specialization, most necros today get a staff buffed in a way that used to require a heavy trait investment before the specialization system.
Regardless of what some people think, the staff is the necro’s single greatest PvP weapon because of its ranged aoe and utility. What necros lack in combat mobility they can make up with the 1200 + 240 (+60 trigger radius) range of marks. And marks have a lot of properties that other classes/weapons don’t have: they are non-projectile high range skills, they can be precast for area control which also effectively lowers their cooldowns, they don’t require for your character to face the casting direction, and all of this can be traited to be unblockable (which regrettably is no longer part of this build).
Plus, Necrotic Grasp’s 4% life force regeneration per hit (4.4% with Gluttony/Soul Reaping) makes this skill have by far the highest lf regen potential with up to 20% (22%) per cast.
And as a bonus, with Blood Magic every staff skill has the potential to trigger 5x Vampiric for an extra ~200 hp per cast.

The Warhorn is without a doubt the best off-hand weapon the necro has, regardless of build or game mode. Combine that with Banshee’s Wail and Blood Magic siphons: bam! Awesome sauce!
Not only are the skills great by themselves, but the 15 second duration of Locust Swarm means it even works long after you’ve switched back to the staff.
Some number crunching: 15 Locust Swarm ticks means a potential 75 hits. And since one hit generates 1.5% life force and ~40 hp we’re looking at up to 112.5% lf regen and 3k healing.
Good damage, great sustain and an unblockable aoe daze as a cherry on top.

The Axe is somewhat of an underdog among necro weapons. Its bad reputation entirely derives from the auto attack and there’s no way of sugarcoating it: Rending Claws is weak.

However, when you compare skills 2 and 3 with the scepter’s and dagger’s, the axe is just straight up better in every single way. So how can you make the axe work in any build? Try to create skill rotations that leave very little room for its auto attack. And this build allows for that.

But let’s take a look at the main reason why we want the axe: Ghastly Claws.
It is the only skill that can do what it does, even though you might see similarities in the dagger’s Life Siphon or the scepter’s Feast of Corruption. Ghastly Claws deals the most damage out of those three skills, the cooldown is the lowest, it generates life force more reliably, the multi-hit channel synergizes with Vampiric and Barbed Precision while having a shorter cast time than Life Siphon, and last but not least: there is almost no precast animation, which makes Ghastly Claws the perfect follow-up skill to use after certain combos.

RUNES

Mad King runes are the perfect addition to this build.
175 power, 5% condition duration, 35% bleeding duration which combined with 20% from Curses and 40% from food adds up to exactly +100%.
And as a cherry on top: the raven attacks when activating an elite skill.
Those “ravens” are actually a 3-target aoe version of the ranger’s Hunter’s Call, which is a channel of 16 hits. They can heal ~2k hp with Vampiric and will trigger an average of 3-5 stacks of bleeding per target with Barbed Precision. Plus, since Death’s Embrace doesn’t have an icd it can stack a high amount of vulnerability on targets below 33% hp.
Hint: It is advisable to go into Death Shroud after using the elite, because this will buff the raven attacks with fury and make life force soak up possible retaliation damage (which can be a lot with 48 hits).

SIGILS

Geomancy for aoe bleeding, no need to explain a lot here.

But why swap sigils for all weapons?
First of all, there’s no rng or icd conflict.
Secondly, necros are rather susceptible to CC due to their low mobility and lack of blocks or invulnerability, so equipping weapons with swap sigils basically turns your swap into an instant cast skill that can be used even when you’re stunned.
That makes the Geomancy/Hydromancy combo on staff rather powerful, and it provides some defense too with aoe chilled and up to 10x Vampiric procs.

Leeching on the axe/wh has a similar purpose, but it is more designed to buff the single target burst after the switch. The Geomancy hit will instantly consume the leeching charge so that alone will buff the burst rotation with an additional 1k armor-ignoring dmg and healing.

Of course there are ways to increase overall damage in PvE by taking something like Bloodlust or Air/Fire instead, but I’d rather have the instant 1k leech on swap.

GEAR STATS

First of all, Carrion used to be the perfect mix between offense and defense for this build. Condition damage and power were a good offensive combo with the 300 precision tied to the Curses trait line, and vitality still is the best defensive stat for necros because of how it scales with life force.

However, the June 2015 patch introduced the following changes:

• Stats tied to trait lines were removed and base stats of characters and gear were raised in return.
• Target the Weak was changed to increase crit chance and give a 13% stat bonus (precision to cond dmg).
• Barbed Precision was nerfed from 66% proc chance to 33%.

With this shift precision on gear became more valuable to this build than it was before.

That is why I mixed a lot of rampager stats into my sinister gear in PvE, it raises my crit chance above 60% without losing out on too much condition damage.
This way fury and Target the Weak can push critical chance above 90% during the burst roation, and that still leaves some room for banners, spotter or a full bar of conditions when fighting world bosses before reaching 100%.
Aside from the buff to direct damage this also allows for a similar amount of Barbed Precision procs as a pre-patch full sinister build.

In PvP I’ve switched to a rampager amulet. With carrion you now only get 4% base crit chance which combined with the lower proc chance of Barbed Precision simply isn’t enough anymore. Does that make you squishier? In a way, yes, with 900 vitality less you are more susceptible to bursts and focus fire. But on the other hand, Blood Magic allows you to recover a lot of hp in combat which actually makes this build have better overall sustain than it had before June 2015. More importantly though, the damage is so much better that it makes the loss of vitality absolutely worth it.
Bottom line: you can totally pull off a rampager amulet in PvP if you play like a boss!

In WvW, however, I had to maintain a higher defense. Supplementing carrion and rampager with the old soldier/sinister/dire trinket mix was either to squishy or didn’t have enough precision. That’s why I replaced some of it with celestial stats. A slightly higher than 32% crit chance doesn’t allow for the same bleed stacking as before BP was nerfed, but celestial can make up for that with higher critical hits because it also comes with ferocity.

How on earth has this post not gotten a comment..not even 1!???

CONTINUED GUIDE

INFUSIONS

WvW-Infusions for WvW, obviously. If you have the choice to go with a defensive or offensive infusion slot (back piece and amulet): pick defensive so you can add more vitality.

It’s a little more complicated for PvE, which is why I’ve left the infusion slots in the PvE build calculator empty.
Here’s the deal, the highest damage is possible if you forge versatile infusions which allows you to put offensive stats into defensive infusion slots. However, they cost an insane amount of gold which you’d be spending on a miniscule stat buff and agony resistance for a build that isn’t the best at running fractals anyway.
I wouldn’t recommend getting them, you might as well buy WvW-Infusions for PvE if you don’t need agony resistance and have a surplus of badges and laurels.

FOOD

Condition duration is easily the best food buff you can get for this build, and Prickly Pear Pie is the best condition duration food. It provides some extra healing (although it doesn’t work through Shroud) and the life steal damage adds up to more than you could get with the 70 condition damage of Rare Veggie Pizzas or Koi Cakes.
Utility nourishment are Master Tuning Crystals in WvW, and either Bountiful Sharpening Stones or Bountiful Maintenance Oil in PvE. Go with stones if you expect to play in groups with Banners or Spotter, during solo content you might get more damage with oils.

As a low budget option for both game modes you can use Super Veggie Pizzas and Quality Tuning Crystals.

UTILITY SKILLS

Consume Conditions is always our main heal, with very few exceptions in PvE where Signet of Vampirism can increase group dps.

Flesh Golem is always our elite skill, with very few exceptions in WvW zerg fights when you need the tankyness + stability and/or your allies can profit from the aoe blindness of Plague. Other than that Flesh Golem is a better skill, especially when combined with Mad Kind runes. More so in 1v1s or small scale fights of course, but it can also be more disruptive in big team brawls than the other elite skills because the hit box of Charge is rather big and there’s no aoe limit.
Also, Vampiric makes minions siphon hp for you (about ~50 hp and 90 dmg), and that not only applies to the regular attacks of the Golem but also every hit with Charge. So for example, if you make him charge into a zerg and he hits 15 targets, that alone can heal you for about 800 hp.

For PvE Epidemic + Blood is Power + Well of Suffering is the best dps combo, unless you’re fighting just one target, in which case Epidemic should be switched to another well, Signet of Spite for the passive bonus, Corrosive Poison Cloud, or even a racial skill like the Charr’s Shrapnel Mine.
Well of Power is a viable option for higher level maps like Silverwastes where cleansing and stun breaks become a necessity.
In PvP/WvW the choice of utility skills Corrupt Boon + Well of Corruption + Well of Power is primarily defensive. Of course CB and WoC can apply a lot of pressure too, but corrupting might into weakness, retaliation into confusion, or stability into fear has very high defensive value.
Also, Well of Corruption generates 1% life force per hit, so a potential 30% in total.

Keep in mind that – like with any other class – adapting to specific situations or opponents is part of fighting in WvW and PvE. Battlefield awareness and experience should dictate what utilities you have on your bar when you go into combat. Some 1v1s are much more manageable with Spectral Grasp or Spectral Armor, some zerg fights might require you to drop Corrupt Boon for Well of Suffering.
With the skills displayed in the build calculator you’ll be performing well overall, but cherry picking skills or even traits to adept to some situations can make a big difference, which will also make you a better and more experienced player in the long run.

Bonus Screenshot

In PvE, with a proper rotation and a lot of RNG luck, this is about as high as you can stack bleeding during the burst:

I would love to hear from others on this build!

I like that setup. It is somewhat close to what I am running. 0/30/20/0/20 is my choice.
Many people ignore staff and call it a ?? support weapon?? Seems legit…

One problem, Staff on itself is not even a weapon, its a extension of the necro utility bar and as a weapon has to be used with life blast/ds (since it gives it the strongest base damage/direct boost to scailing). That isnt mentioned anywhere on the entire post.
Also runes of undead + Carrion amulet in pvp = fail.

Andele.1306:

One problem, Staff on itself is not even a weapon, its a extension of the necro utility bar and as a weapon has to be used with life blast/ds (since it gives it the strongest base damage/direct boost to scailing). That isnt mentioned anywhere on the entire post.

It isn’t mentioned anywhere because it’s plane wrong.
Life blasting with this build is a huge waste of time and life force.
The only time I will ever use life blast is when I have to stay in DS and all other skills are on cool down.

Andele.1306:

Also runes of undead + Carrion amulet in pvp = fail.

The pvp runes are certainly debatable. If you want to be tankier you can just choose a different one.
But keep in mind, the popular rabid+undead combo (with the same traits) increases your total condition damage by only 29. That’s right: 1339 instead of 1368. This means my bleeds are losing an incredible 1,45 damager per tick!!
So… yeah, huge fail -.-

Andele.1306:

Also runes of undead + Carrion amulet in pvp = fail.

care to explain why? and please dont say because of the 6th rune-bonus. thats just ~31 cond.damage.

flow.6043:

It isn’t mentioned anywhere because it’s plane wrong.
Life blasting with this build is a huge waste of time and life force.
The only time I will ever use life blast is when I have to stay in DS and all other skills are on cool down.

You know life blast does double the damage Ngrasp in the same time if you are over 400~ range…

And again Necro condi damage spect without rabid = fail. With crits you got 2 additional bleeds, weakness and you yourself are protected from it making you way less ignorable.

Carrion is for a fill in with rampager or as a secondary condition caster (as in chill cripple weaken blind bot).

Andele.1306:

flow.6043:

It isn’t mentioned anywhere because it’s plane wrong.
Life blasting with this build is a huge waste of time and life force.
The only time I will ever use life blast is when I have to stay in DS and all other skills are on cool down.

You know life blast does double the damage Ngrasp in the same time if you are over 400~ range…

And again Necro condi damage spect without rabid = fail. With crits you got 2 additional bleeds, weakness and you yourself are protected from it making you way less ignorable.

Carrion is for a fill in with rampager or as a secondary condition caster (as in chill cripple weaken blind bot).

Yeah… this could only come from someone who isn’t familiar with this build.

Necrotic grasp/life blast: Yes, but that’s not how this build works. Auto attacking is the absolute last resort.

Condi damage spect without rabid: This build works because there is no precision.
Changing the prefixes, getting the Sigil of Earth or switching out any of the Curses traits for Withering Precision (I assume that’s what you meant by getting weakness) would make this build much (!!) weaker.

Just to make one thing clear:
This post has been on the forum for over a month but I’ve been running this build for a long time before that.
At the time I didn’t post it to get input for improving or validating it (because it’s already as good as it gets).
I simply posted it because this build wasn’t on the forum yet.

Why not the 10% extra mark damage?

Cempa.5619:

Why not the 10% extra mark damage?

Ah yes, good question. Let’s see:

The mark cooldowns with Staff Mastery are 4,75, 16, 20 and 32 seconds.
Now… I’m not sure exactly how much direct damage each marks does on avarage, because there is always Target the Weak factoring in to some extent, also the occasional crit or the 10 might stacks from BiP.
But I believe it’s something like:
Mark of Blood: 400-500
Chillblains: 600-700
Putrid Mark: 1700-2000
Reaper’s Mark: ~400

So 10% for all of those would add far lower dps than a single stack of bleeding.
Even if I had 20 points in Spite in wvw/pve, I’m not sure I would pick Spiteful Marks.

The more interesting question is: why not 10 in Spite and 30 Death Magic for an additional trait?
1. Not a fan of the non-staff and non-minion traits in this line. So there was no real insetive for me to go all the way.
2. When I don’t have a rare veggie pizza, but mf food instead (or I simply forgot to eat more) I’d still like to have 25% instead of 20%. I’m aware of the condition tick mechanic, that even a 1,1sec fear can tick twice with terror. But I just feel more comfortable with an extra round quarter of a second.
Also with 80% bleeding duration (65 cond and 15 bleed) you will be able to maintain a constant 9 stacks of bleeding with Mark of Blood on up to 5 targets. That’s just a pve advantage of course, when conditions don’t get cleansed.

Confused as to why a condition build wouldnt grab some of the other fears in traits or the fear duration. 5 more pts in blood and reapers protection or take the 15 from spite for fear on down or put 20 in soul reaping and have fear on down and master of terror or lf on marks. Just interested in whats so impressive in 3 seconds of retaliation for a condition build

Apollo.7583:

Confused as to why a condition build wouldnt grab some of the other fears in traits or the fear duration. 5 more pts in blood and reapers protection or take the 15 from spite for fear on down or put 20 in soul reaping and have fear on down and master of terror or lf on marks. Just interested in whats so impressive in 3 seconds of retaliation for a condition build

The dealbreaker with Reaper’s Protection for me is the gigantic cooldown of 90 years, combined with how little control you have over when it triggers.

Going 20 into Soul Reaping would cripple the strenght of the staff and the utilities.
Taking either of the fear traits would give you an occasional spike in damage but make you weaker overall.
You would lose all of the very beneficial attributes of the Spite line and trade it in for a bigger lf pool and crit damage, which wouldn’t add much even if I had a higher crit chance (which I don’t).
Soul Marks is a really nice trait, but it’s just not worth the investment. I would probably take it if it was in the Spite line though.

However, Retaliation is not at all as weak as it sounds:
It scales with power and with the amount I have it deals ~360 dmg per hit. So, if I go into ds to absorb a burst, it can easily outdamage a fear-terror tick.
Plus: there is no aoe limit. Everyone who hits you gets damage. If you take a quick bath in the attacks of a hostile zerg, the damage adds up pretty nicely.
Also Spiteful Spirit gives me 4 seconds, because I have 25 in Death Magic. And That’s on a 10 second cooldown.

Its a decent build, I like having more conditions damage at least 1000 before I start putting more into power with my staff builds. Dont use pure carrion unless you are sitting far back you will be paper if some targets you. Better to mix rabid and soldiers with just one or two carrion.

Agree with skipping reapers protection the cooldown is far to long and its a skill you cant control.

The terror/fear build is overrated its faceroll easy to play but kind of weak vs good players.

Xom.9264:

Its a decent build, I like having more conditions damage at least 1000 before I start putting more into power with my staff builds.

I do have 1200 before sigil and 10 stacks of might from BiP.
The soldier mix I have reduces my condition damage by 388, that’s ~19 less for each bleed tick. With a full sigil and the might stacks I’m still reaching 132/tick, that’s good enough for me.
I actually thought about switching some of the soldier trinkets back to the ones with prefixes like Plague Idol (cond dmg/toughness/vit/precision). But I just feel like I’m getting more out of power at this point.

Xom.9264:

Dont use pure carrion unless you are sitting far back you will be paper if some targets you. Better to mix rabid and soldiers with just one or two carrion.

I switched everything in the build calculator to pure rabid (only available with ascended trinkets) and then pure carrion (only exotic trinkets):

Rabid:
Effective Power 1695.67
Effective Health (EHP) 28158
Damage Reduction 34.75%

Carrion:
Effective Power 2185.37
Effective Health (EHP) 28804
Damage Reduction 11.98%

Even without ascended trinkets carrion provides a higher EHP. It’s not as fragile as people make it sound. Also your lifeforce pool is bigger and the Effective Power from pure carrion is much better for this build.
Going full rabid would make a lot more sense though if you were to invest into Soul Reaping for the added crit damage.

Anyway, theses are the stats with my current carrion/soldier mix:
Effective Power 2269.41
Effective Health (EHP) 33916
Damage Reduction 25.43%

Higher EHP, more power, less condition damage.

Xom.9264:

The terror/fear build is overrated its faceroll easy to play but kind of weak vs good players.

true ^^

I like the look of the staff a lot and it just fits the necro theme so finding this has me excited. I look forward to giving this a go real soon

Thanks for posting the idea.

Great post! Would love to hear some more opinions on other builds.

June Patch Update

I’m aware of like ~2 people out there who actually use my build. So for you guys, I updated the guide to accommodate for the recent balance patch.

I’ve rewritten some of the original guide and added a “WvW strategy and 1v1 advice” section.

What changed for the build:

I changed traits from 15/30/25/0/0 to 20/30/20/0/0 so I can take Axe Mastery which is now at master tier.
That’s basically it, gear is still optimal.

To answer some questions that might come up…

• Dropping Deadly Strength for another 5 points in Spite actually gives me less power, toughness and boon duration. So why would I trade this for an axe-trait when this is actually a staff build??
  I’ve explained the reason for this in the guide. But in a nutshell, the buffed utility on Unholy Feast and the burst potential for the “Finisher-Combo” (explained in gameplay) makes Axe Training take the crown.
  Also, my damage is increased when I can’t apply any conditions. Like on structures or Boss battles when bleed caps are maxed.

• Does it even make sense to run a staff-build anymore if you can run a 30/30/x/x/x Dhuum-Terror build instead?
  Yes! The staff is that good and Staff Mastery is that valuable to make it work in this build.

In fact, while keeping the core of the build intact (20 Curses/Death Magic) I’ve tried all sorts of trait combinations to see what the best combo is:

30/30/10/0/0
30/20/20/0/0
5/25/20/0/20
0/30/20/20/0
10/30/20/0/10
5/30/20/15/0
0/30/25/0/15
…the list goes on.

But just to clarify:

Blood Magic and Soul Reaping made this build too weak. So beyond 20 points in every other line the question was: is either Dhuumfire or Close to Death worth losing 30 in Curses.
Answer: nope.

Taking Dhuumfire would mean 100 precision less (-5% crit chance) and with just 15% crit chance left (24 with the rampager’s axe/wh) and all the aoe of the marks… burning was just too unpredictable and not really that powerful, with this not being a full on condition build.
So the choice really was between Close to Death and Target the Weak.
Altough rather situational, with all the different conditions you can apply with the staff and Tainted Shackles, I’m inclined to say that TtW might have the edge over CtD on average.
Also, in Curses I can take Master of Corruption, while the gm minor in Spite is rather poor.

So bottom line: 20/30/20/0/0 is now the best trait combo for this build in WvW/PvE, hands down.

Edit: In sPvP corruption skills are still the most aggressive option to combo with this build. However, with the growing necro population and the meta shifting more towards condition pressure, you might often be better off adding some stun breaks, cleanses and/or spectral skills to you arsenal. And with Master of Corruption then being less mandatory, you could switch to Spectral Attunement, Banshee’s Wail… or just go another 10 into Spite for Dhuum.

I know the post is pretty old but, any chance for a gameplay video of you using this build in www, I’m not sure what to lvl for my 2nd alt to 80 and I would love to see how this build in action

Or do you have known any videos already existing that use a similar build?

Rmpz.7031:

I know the post is pretty old but, any chance for a gameplay video of you using this build in www, I’m not sure what to lvl for my 2nd alt to 80 and I would love to see how this build in action

There might be a chance. It’s not very high on my priority list though.
I just couldn’t motivate myself enough to do it in the last couple of months… but another players request might push me to finally make one

Rmpz.7031:

Or do you have known any videos already existing that use a similar build?

For all I know this build is quite unique among wvw necros, there might be a few people using it but I’m not aware of any video footage.

Okay I’ll keep any eye on this thread then, so frustrating to figure out what to play in this game, I like 1 weapon set for 3 different professions, but not really any other part of that pretty much what I like about them :P

Iv always felt a bit lackluster with full condition in a fast paced environment my guild chooses to make during WvW and wanted to step into a hybrid build i love my plaque form too much to convert to full power, now in the process of converting from full rabid terror build to this and give it a pop, i will let you all know my opinions although for now im kinda in transition with a Carrion/Rabid armor mix and Ascended Soldier/Exotic Rabid trinkets.

Il be the second to wanting to see the build in action, id make my own but your far more qualified to demonstrate the build than me not to mention the fact i fight zergs and not 1v1 etc lol

Um… I don’t mean to be a negative hater. But andele has a point. This is just pretty much the regular condition spec with some odd/not optimal/debatable choices.
If you are going conditions don’t expect your staff to do … damage. It just isn’t going to happen, even in full zerke,r putrid hits for pitiful amount of damage, when you consider the cooldown. Anyway… as far as conditions go… staff alone is not enough. It will never stack bleeds fast enough to compensate for cleanses/fall offs and definitely will never beat a zergs aoe condition cleansing. And stakitten auto attack is disgusting joke long range. Short range its better… long range against people… no. Just no.

And you are missing the point on why undead runes usually end up being taken. Its because you can get all your durations w/o runes or sigils. There is no purpose in taking more… undead runes provide condition dmg and mitigation stat. Toughness convertion is just a small extra benefit. There is really nothing else that doesn’t provide things you need. Don’t get hung up on that 6 pieces bonus. Anyway it all asumes you are going for maximum pain.

But yes I do encourage people to forget that trashy fire. It was never good to begin with outside of spvp where you lack condition duration. It was simply never justifiable enough to dump 30 points in spite for it.

On swap sigils… ehh. If you want hybrid then build for hybrid not some awkward half way point. If you intend to build purely for maximum aoe damage then you are on right track but instead of trying to reinvent a wheel take wells. And hell take bone minions too. Carrion at that point really is best/only/debatable choice tho instead of rabid.

Anyway There was a lot of good info but it was unrelated to the build heh.

@Axle:

I use this build for solo roaming mostly. I’ll sometimes help out my zerg but for the most part my build serves to be most effective in small scale fights and duels.

The biggest issue if you’re spending your time in zergs will be the Runes of the Mad King. Condition/bleeding duration isn’t that effective in large battles and the 6th bonus (call ravens) can trigger 48x retaliation on yourself if you’re unlucky… which can cut your precious necro hp in half.
Also, when you’re running plague all the time then you’ll trigger it a lot less often than with the Flesh Golem.

Don’t be discouraged to try the runes, but for zerg-only players it might not be the best choice… just a heads up.

@HiSaZuL:

It might look similar to a standard condition build, but the “odd/not optimal/debatable choices” make the play style very different.
Also, keep in mind that my conversation with Andele is 3 months old. A lot has changed since then, so 20 in Spite seems a lot more usual for condi builds today than it used to before the June balance patch.

HiSaZuL.2843:

Anyway… as far as conditions go… staff alone is not enough.

True. But I also have Death Shroud and Corruption skills… believe me, it’s a proper condition build except my conditions tick a little lower with some soldier gear in the mix.

HiSaZuL.2843:

It will never stack bleeds fast enough to compensate for cleanses/fall offs and definitely will never beat a zergs aoe condition cleansing.

Which is why pure rabid scepter-necros are worse off in zergs than I am.

The opposite imo. If you concentrate on maxing out amount of bleeds with highest condition dmg and forgo duration. You can mask them well enough between poison/weakness/chill/and what ever else. Point is to stack the most hurting bleeds and a lot of them instead of long lasting ones.
W/o crit you loose barbed. Frankly as far as I’m concerned barbed outperforms sigil of earth purely on basis that it tends to proc faster they do their dirty deed and they are gone. Staff is too slow for proc application of barbed and earth. And generating enough lf with corrupt/staff is just simply not logical to take a good advantage of DS. Yes you jump in pop torment and doom and gtfo. But you lack speed in applying bleeds.
Don’t get me wrong… poison cloud and spite are great for making cover but you can never be sure what will be cleared off. I’ll take short lived bleeds but ability to throw 20 of them in a span of 10 seconds all with low or no cooldown abilities. Over long cooldowns+may or may not be dodged sources.

Staff is the way to go for wvw… so is rabbid and wells. But as far as actual condition damage and management in pvp/pve scenario its not on par with what scepter with earth and barbed with high crit can pump . Also high hp pool is wasted since you lack lf generation to take advantage of it. On the other hand toughness is only vulnerable to condition damage and you have plenty of ways to give those back with love.

And rabbid+ scepter is horrible idea on every imaginable level as far as I’m concerned. No amount of power will make scepter direct damage even remotely worth talking about and sacrificing crit chance effectively nullifies any and all use from barbed/earth.

I’m not saying its not a condition spec all I’m trying to say that outside wvw you can do more with scepter under rabid gear.

And yes I agree that if you go for wvw staff/well/hybrid condition spec its very different from how you do it normally. One you rely on being aware that tossing your conditions wells on guardians/ele groups is horrible idea and it will waste most of dmg. Two unlike normal condition its a lot more mobile due to range increase. You can’t run and still smack stuff with scepter with staff and wells you can.

Alright, here’s a short sample against npcs to illustrate how I stack conditions and set up my burst:

I’ll try to gather more video material to showcase proper fights against other players, but for now I hope this gives some insight into what can be done with this build potentially.

EDIT: moved the video link up to the guide.

Im aware of your concerns around Mad king ruins in zerg fights so at the moment due to the 2 gold a ruin TP cost iv gone undead as their extremely cheap.

Personally iv ran full rabid most of my Necro’s existence only changing build and recently been captivated by trying out a hybrid build, the fact you use Carrion is what draws me to your build. With full condition in a fast paced environment it is damage over time and time is often not in my favor. Not to mention there are valid arguments between using Carrion and Rabid, I still believe conditions are the necro’s strongest asset but having a little direct damage is better than none for those single target instances in finishing players etc. Plus the added health adds to plaque form and DS and for me that is very appealing.

Normally my rabid based build would confine me to WvW as i do not have a fixed group for dungeons but yours facilitates little transition between PVE and PVP and makes me viable in both.

All in all i believe Hybrids are the Necro’s future full condition and power based builds are too predictable but with hybrids you’re never quite sure what to expect facing them.

Alrighty, here’s another video.
I put some clips together that I recorded yesterday. Please excuse the qualitiy but that’s what I’m stuck with for now. Should there be a next one then I’ll definitely put more effort and time into it (and music…).

I chose outnumbered fights that I lost just to demonstrate what the limits of my build are. Keep in mind I didn’t have my hydromancy staff equipped except for the third fight and I never had any kill stacks… so damage could have been higher every time. Also I made some mistakes that might have cost me the win sometimes… but whatever.

EDIT: moved the video link up to the guide.

Build looks good!

I realize this is the necromancer forum…..

but Jeebus.

Raising the dead just took on a whole new meaning.

lol

Just fyi, I’m still using this build.
Yes, the thread is old, but I keep it updated since it generated some views even when it dropped back to page ~80.

Why did DarkFQ bump it? We met in WvW yesterday and talked about our builds, I guess he felt my build is worth some more front-page attention…

This build is very viable for tPvP (top eu lb ranking pvp), no worse than classical condi or power builds. Too bad not many ppl know about it, but it does require little more skill than regular ones.
So yeah we do have viable hybrid build for pvp.

I personally am glad this was bumped, I was looking for a good build for my Necro when he reaches lvl 80. This looks promising. [Plus using the Final Rest Skin on a Staff and being a threat at the same time, WIN]

Granted I’m playing a necro in PvE, but I have fun with it.

Saw this guide linked from another thread. Been trying to find something to make playing my Necro fun again. I play predominantly WvW and this happens to be my favorite weapon setup so I’ll definitely be trying this out this week. A budget version, but close enough.

r u the charr w the guildtag [BOSS] who duelled me (lawyrda, ghardiem) in os often? :o (the ele /sometimes mesmer)

Sagramor.7395:

I’ll definitely be trying this out this week.

If you have any questions or need help, don’t hesitate to whisper me in game. In case you’re playing on EU I’m also up for a little sparring session.

Wyrden.4713:

r u the charr w the guildtag [BOSS]…

Yes.

flow.6043:

Sagramor.7395:

I’ll definitely be trying this out this week.

If you have any questions or need help, don’t hesitate to whisper me in game. In case you’re playing on EU I’m also up for a little sparring session.

Wyrden.4713:

r u the charr w the guildtag [BOSS]…

Yes.

finally got to see ur build, fun dueling u:p

flow.6043:

Sagramor.7395:

I’ll definitely be trying this out this week.

If you have any questions or need help, don’t hesitate to whisper me in game. In case you’re playing on EU I’m also up for a little sparring session

Got to spend some time on my Necro past couple days using a more budget friendly setup. Performed quite well. Just trying to settle on whether I want to run Sharpening Stone, Maintenance Oil, or Tuning Crystal. Here’s what I’m working with.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQNBmODbkjmubLvxnG2bTULISWsGkNCEdpMtA-TlCEwAJUCG5gAA5CA4U53IdAg0M0b/BZq/44JAAwEkgAUE-w

That should work well enough.
I’d probably take Tuning Crystals as the best overall choice. Ultimately it depends on the situation though. Sometimes you might get more out of some extra direct damage, in which case I think stones are better than oils.

I’ve been running with the crystals so far , and doing fine. That being the case, I think I’d save the sharpening stones for any high volume ZvZ action. And you’re probably right about the oils. The crit isn’t high enough in this build to make good use of Barbed Precision, nor are we utilizing on-crit sigils.

Thanks again.

Sagramor.7395:

The crit isn’t high enough in this build to make good use of Barbed Precision

Barbed Precision is actually a big damage boost when you do certain combos. It is among the reasons why I use rampager stats on axe/warhorn. With fury from Furious Demise you temporarily have a ~50% crit chance which will make Ghastly Claws alone proc a few bleeds, not to mention any additional hits from other skills.
It’s even more potent with Mad King runes. They cap your bleeding duration at +100%, making Barbed 4 seconds long. And the 6th bonus triggers a 16-hit attack, on average this will add about 4-5 stacks of bleeding.

But of course you’re right, a permanent precision boost at the cost of condition damage or power is probably not worth it when crit chance is rather low to begin with.

I’ve been using this build for around a year now, and it’s by far my favourite way to play my necro.

A couple questions:

1. What are your thoughts on taking the 4 points in “Spite” and putting them into “Soul Reaping” and getting DS skill cooldowns and fear duration increase? Retaliation in DS always seemed like a waste to me since I get long durations of this from Axe 3 anyways, and the damage boost + cd on axe seems outshined when comparing to increased fear duration.

2. Since this build is noted for WvW, PvP, and PvE, do you think it outshines current “meta” builds for necro in these areas? Or is it primarily used for it’s versatility. I do WvW a lot now, and I’m not sure if buying full Zerker is simply better in all cases, or if this build does have it’s perks over Zerker in the Zerg WvW meta.

First of all, thx for your dedication to this build, I’m flattered.

Citizen.3869:

1. What are your thoughts on taking the 4 points in “Spite” and putting them into “Soul Reaping” and getting DS skill cooldowns and fear duration increase?

If there’s one trait line worth switching anything for it’s Soul Reaping. Last Gasp is one of our best minor traits and an additional 20% life force on top of all the vitality would be huge.
However, beyond that you have to look at synergy. With a rather low crit chance you’re not getting all that much out of 200 ferocity (+13% crit dmg), so overall power is simply a better dmg modifier.
Then you’d have to compare +50% fear duration vs +20% to all conditions, should you choose to go with Master of Terror at all. In WvW I’d probably pick a different trait because you get 40% from food anyway, in sPvP it would make more sense but there you’d have even fewer options to modify your crit chance to get some use out of the extra ferocity. So you’re really left with the question: more fear vs 20 to all condis. Imo the latter is stronger in regards to both defense and offense. Chilled, cripple and weakness contribute to your defense just as much as fear does, if not more, and extending all damaging conditions usually nets more damage than an additional 30% fear.

Citizen.3869:

Retaliation in DS always seemed like a waste to me since I get long durations of this from Axe 3 anyways

It’s true you can get perma retaliation from Unholy Feast alone, but only if you always hit 5 targets. Also, timing is important here. You might not be on axe/wh when you could use some retaliation or your opponents might be out of range entirely for Axe3 to hit.
And retaliation seems fairly underrated. There are lots of channeled skills that hit several times in which case retal deals really high damage and ignores your attacker’s armor value.
So Spiteful Spirit is one of those traits that are very subtle but have a huge impact on certain encounters.

Citizen.3869:

and the damage boost + cd on axe seems outshined when comparing to increased fear duration.

Like I said, I’m not sure if I’d pick Master of Terror as an alternative in Soul Reaping, but the actual reason you want Axe Training is because of the cooldown reduction for Ghastly Claws. The added damage to axe and Life Blast is just a bonus.
With the trait your cd + channel time is ~8.5 seconds, without the trait is 10.25 sec. Sometimes these 2 seconds can be the difference between using Ghastly Claws 2 times or just once, which does not only mean more damage but also twice as much life force. The skill also tends to provoke opponent’s reactions rather well, be it dodges or as much as forcing them to play more defensively. So 2 seconds might not sound like a lot here but it’s actually the primary reason why I use this trait, and keep in mind I picked it over Chill of Death, that’s how much I value Axe Training.

Citizen.3869:

2. Since this build is noted for WvW, PvP, and PvE, do you think it outshines current “meta” builds for necro in these areas? Or is it primarily used for it’s versatility. I do WvW a lot now, and I’m not sure if buying full Zerker is simply better in all cases, or if this build does have it’s perks over Zerker in the Zerg WvW meta.

In PvE the zerker meta is uncontested.
I do play my necro with this build in most open world content and it’s actually really nice in maps like the Silverwastes. But I mostly do so for fun and because I like the playstyle of this build. So if I need to bring a power build I simply switch class instead of changing the build on my necro.

In WvW you have to make the distinction between roaming and zerging. Against super organized groups you can instantly see how your condi pressure loses value. You’re never completely powerless though and you can still pick off back line players or those who stray off their pain train more easily that power necros. And of course you can do the same debuffing and damage soaking that all other necro builds do, so in a way there’s still some merit to this build even if most of your damage falls flat at times.
As for the roaming meta, I’m not even sure there is one at the moment, but for necros in general you have to have the following mind set: you might not escape if people decide to gang up on you, but you can win every single straight up 1v1 with this build. And when I’m roaming I’m looking for proper fights and good opponents, so being a sitting duck sometimes is fine by me if it means that I can defeat ppl in a fair duel.

Which brings me to sPvP: I consider my build to be stronger than the condi meta in every single way. Defense and offense is simply better while being able to bring more utility and team support to every fight. Also, there are some builds on some class that the condi meta can’t beat, but this build can deal with all of them. There are advantages of playing power builds though, certain damage spikes, downed pressure or lock downs and generally having different defensive patterns with being heavier on DS and spectral skills.
One thing to note here, my build is definitely strong when I play it, but I’ve heard of several players who’ve tried it but either didn’t like it or didn’t have the experience to pull it off properly. So this build, even if it might be stronger than the meta, is probably never going to be meta for two reasons:
1. If you’re a necro veteran you’ve probably settled into playing either condi or power and don’t feel the need to make a change. If you’re new you probably won’t start playing some hybrid either which is generally considered subpar for necros, so they’d too go for something more straight forward like full condi or full power.
So basically the build is too niche on a class that is unpopular in sPvP.
2. Teams are more important than individual players. Map awareness, rotation and skill coordination in team fights heavily outweigh the build of a single player. So when we’re talking about meta builds we’re talking about what most people play and what is popular. And this means that there are a lot of strong builds across all classes that simply don’t matter enough in the grand sceme of things to influence the current meta.

Thank you very much for your feedback, I almost completely overlooked the minor traits.

Thank you for keeping this guide updated, and also hope I see something from you in the way of the GS that necro will (as far as I know) be getting.