Guild Wars 2

Why ask the community what needs to be fixed? needs love?
I don’t get it. do they need an excuse to ignore some classes?

Don’t they know the profession with the most players will come out on top?
Did they ignore the subforums for the last 6+ months?

I’m kinda seeing ranger and ele spam across the board, not without reason, but this probably shows how few people main a necro.

:sadface

I guess we should spam the CDI, that allie linked to

That is the difficulty with what they are asking. I feel as Necro is the least played class, there are less people willing to discuss its shortcomings etc. Instead they just want to blast our ability to apply conditions. Though they do appear to agree with our underwhelming PVE abilities.

I just hope they take a look at the class. I don’t think we are weak, but we are pigeon holed, and we have three builds that are somewhat viable

Condition bomber – MM – powerbuild (30/10/0/0/30).

WHiel that is not bad, we have a slew of traits that are utterly useless or downright underpowered. In addition, as a whole our traits really lack synergy, which drastically limits our flexibility.

For example, if they moved dhuumfire to the Grandmaster Curses trait (and left everything in place) I think it would open up more condition builds instead of our somewhat forced 30/20/0/0/20 terror/dhuum build to remain viable. I would immediatley go back to my 0/30/0/10/30 condition stability build if they moved dhuumfire to curses (or whatever variant they change it to be because we need another dmg condition – in my opinion). I know people say that DS hurts a condition build, but if you shroud dance, in conditions, you can keep bleeds up, gain some and gain some stability.

Power builds definiately need more reasons to go into death and blood, and death magic and blood magic traits just bore the crap out of me if im not rocking MM. Death is good for MM, but just bad for everything else, which cuts down on a power builds ability to add some defense and still have utility. I mean you can go 30 into death magic to pick up 300 toughness and maybe some increased staff ability, but other than that your just hamstringing yourself.

MM builds are fun for PVP,but just blow outside of PVP, and in WVW. Just too much AOE damage in WVW to keep them up.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Hey everyone,

For our upcoming CDI projects, we would like to collect your ideas for professions that need balancing. Since there are 8 professions, we would like to do one at a time and would like you to vote on which one comes first.

When I counted the votes about 10hrs ago necro was third with engi following close and warrior/guardian with the least amount of votes.
Somehow the ranking will get considered as well, but eventually necros will get their turn to be balanced.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

Don’t they know the profession with the most players will come out on top?

and yet, not many ppl vote for warrior or guardian, the most played professions by far

I’m kinda seeing ranger and ele spam across the board, not without reason, but this probably shows how few people main a necro.

I understand voting for rangers cause theyre stuck with a class mechanic that doesnt work.

But ele? maybe theyre a bit weak (no idea, honestly. i hear ppl whining about them but i also see the screenshots of fullzerk-hammereles with ridiculous damage), but at least the class is finished and all and works, unlike necros.

At least necro has a decent place currently in WvW and sPvP, but it still needs some tweaks ofc. However in PvE …
We should take non-biased vote or the whole CDI is pointless.
As the votes stands now, ranger will be the #1 by far.
Ele will be #2 by a high chance (overnerfed in sPvP, squishyness etc).
And we have a great chance to be on the third place with engi. Sadly our imba Dhuumfire build recently made people highly biased toward necro being OP, so it will be a rough ride, but hope we will get more attention

RashanDale.3609:

But ele? maybe theyre a bit weak (no idea, honestly. i hear ppl whining about them but i also see the screenshots of fullzerk-hammereles with ridiculous damage), but at least the class is finished and all and works, unlike necros.

I personally believe that ele’s have a problem in design. I have played ele a bit and these are a few of my observations on the ele which compelled me to vote on the ele.

Elementalist are very active class, they have lot’s of weapon skills with lots of combo field and finishers and in return have very few passive boosts.

The problem is that those skills are blocked due to attunement cooldowns plus their own cooldowns. The utilities are either weak (like signets) or have long cooldowns (like cantrips) which hinders this active playstyle as well. In fact I believe that engineers and their kits are what an elementalist should be with his weapons. It would require a bit of work though with some on attunement switch traits.

Another problem is that elementalists have to interrupt their dps uptime due some long cast times, the need of doging or the fact that they need to switch to eath or water to defend themselves. The last one forces them for +- 10 seconds out of their preferred attunement which is not good.

I totally agree rangers need some help.
About elementalists i am not sure either, if played right they are incredibly powerfull i might even say bordeline, especially with the upcoming buff’s as presented in ready-up.
not to mention the mechanics bugs “exploited” for more damage. then again they have the same problems as most cloth classes, their niche use.

I see loads of mesmer’s and engie’s going bananna’s too because of longlasting bug’s, then again they have some nifty tricks that make the class able to circumvent these bug’s or make these bug’s less of an issue. simply because the bugs mostly appear in their AI. Clones/Turrets.

As the necro is simply expected to facetank without tricks, UI/ skill bug’s become more apparent and makes the player feel like a mob without any purpose but stand there and take it. hence a simple bug can offset the profession much faster because of the lack of “gimmic’s”

Also the obvious condition meta everyone is talking about is mostly directed at the necro, even though there is basicly little information ingame telling you what profession applied what condition. most of the time people simply point at the necro. because.. well. necro.

I call bullkitten on the CDI. Multiple votes, only vote for 1 or 2 class, suspicius first posts … I don’t know. First time ever that i hope it’s just a PR fluff move from Anet, to impress the playerbase.

Dalanor.5387:

I call bullkitten on the CDI. Multiple votes, only vote for 1 or 2 class, suspicius first posts … I don’t know. First time ever that i hope it’s just a PR fluff move from Anet, to impress the playerbase.

Placate is the word you are looking for. Because we all know that asking the rabble what should be balanced first is the best thing to do.

So this wasn’t enough?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/The-cake-is-not-a-lie/first#post590399

I’d like a cleaving autoattack and a true escape for when I’m ganked in wvw. They did say they want to keep necro mobility where it is, so maybe they could give us some stuff similar to what guardian has – unless he takes teleports he’s usually just about as slow as us, but he has a ridiculous number of invulns and blocks to run away from any size zerg.

Reverting DS to block and an attainable vigor are also on my wishlist but I’m pretty sure those are never going to happen.

The voting makes complete sense as it is now. Necromancers at least have a place in the game. Eles as they are now are absolutely god-awful across the board. Even if there is a spec or two that works, they are very niche, worse than if they rolled another class (by far), and almost any build is forced into Arcana.

Rangers are just boring to play and uninspired. Not to mention not that good.

At least with Necros you can generally make us work. Yes we deserve the #3 slot, but we aren’t nearly as bad off as Ele/ranger.

peterpat.8196:

Approximate estimate and not reliable, but an overview for those interested (thanks to JS and regex) votes up to (including) page 24. (if someone voted multiple times, the newest was used)

Prof               voted 1st   voted 2nd   voted 3rd   total
ele                    200            188               166                 554
mes                  60               57                  86                 203
war                  11                26                49                   86
ranger             446             259             116                  821
necro               90               132             167                 389
guard               7                  6                  9                     22
thief                30                 54                84                  168
engi                 46                157              179                382
total                890               879             856               2625

Even if I would have missed 100 votes, ranger and ele are currently first and second.

We are 3rd, engis got nearly equal votes. Ranger and ele is the top 2 by far.

Ranger will be the topic of the first CDI. Means squat to me, but at least we tried, looks like again we are put on the back burner. Might as well continue playing my warrior for now.

We still have a chance to be part of the CDI, but the actual numbers were really really close to engi.

My guess is there won’t be a single profession balancing CDI. They’ll start with Ranger, but then move on down the list. Necros coming in 3rd place is both encouraging and discouraging. Encouraging because it recognizes the fact that Necros still need work and will eventually have their day.

Discouraging because now that the devs feel they’re collaborating with us through the CDI, they’ll believe they’re off the hook in having to address any other profession’s concerns (short of something game breaking) until that class’ turn in the CDI queue. Which means we’ll have to wait – yet again – for our issues to be addressed.

Ele is the most popular class by far which is the only reason its got so many votes. And even though it arguebly does need some help in pvp it certainly doesnt need that much attention to fix its issues. The results of the poll are disheartening because all it is is a biased popularity contest.

Well we are getting there my fellow necs. Keep on keepin.

spoj.9672:

Ele is the most popular class by far which is the only reason its got so many votes. And even though it arguebly does need some help in pvp it certainly doesnt need that much attention to fix its issues. The results of the poll are disheartening because all it is is a biased popularity contest.

Except Warriors and Guardians got the worst scores, and are the most popular.

Rangers are kitten, in both design and play.
Eles are kitten, especially with build diversity (there is none)
Necros and Engis I’d agree are close.

Engi’s and necros arent even close.
Engi has 1500 range,grenade spam and fields aplying conditions.
Remember those mortar skills that drop caltrops and chill people?
Yes those are fields that tick conditions per SEC for 10 sec etc.
What does the necro have to compete with an engi?

grave of hearts.7830:

What does the necro have to compete with an engi?

Cheesy burnterror that made the necro one of the most hated classes in the past few months. :/

Well , the CDI appears to not matter at all..

Are we to take these things serious it would take about a year to go trough all profession , also it’s mentioned as an Extra CDI (read side project , because blance.. who cares right?)

So don’t expect necro to get any attention the next upcoming months.. not that expectations were high or anything..

Special note: it appears the necromancer threads in the bug forums are being moderated to death, under pretense of bumping.

gee gee..

Dalanor.5387:

peterpat.8196:

Approximate estimate and not reliable, but an overview for those interested (thanks to JS and regex) votes up to (including) page 24. (if someone voted multiple times, the newest was used)

Prof               voted 1st   voted 2nd   voted 3rd   total
ele                    200            188               166                 554
mes                  60               57                  86                 203
war                  11                26                49                   86
ranger             446             259             116                  821
necro               90               132             167                 389
guard               7                  6                  9                     22
thief                30                 54                84                  168
engi                 46                157              179                382
total                890               879             856               2625

Even if I would have missed 100 votes, ranger and ele are currently first and second.

We are 3rd, engis got nearly equal votes. Ranger and ele is the top 2 by far.

This happens because in the end people are tired of playing a necromancer full of problems and changes without logic

Bhawb.7408:

spoj.9672:

Ele is the most popular class by far which is the only reason its got so many votes. And even though it arguebly does need some help in pvp it certainly doesnt need that much attention to fix its issues. The results of the poll are disheartening because all it is is a biased popularity contest.

Except Warriors and Guardians got the worst scores, and are the most popular.

Rangers are kitten, in both design and play.
Eles are kitten, especially with build diversity (there is none)
Necros and Engis I’d agree are close.

Yes but people who play warriors and guardians know they dont really need help.

Anyway I wont dispute pvp problems. But from a pve perspective. Rangers are in a fairly decent place, they could use a little help. Mainly changing the sword auto. So i rated them 3rd.

Eles have by far the most diversity from a pve meta perspective. When you use eles in speedruns they never have the same builds and different dungeons require different traits. Also looking back eles were a dominant force in pvp in the past. So it really shouldnt take much to bring them back to a good level. So I didnt rate them.

I rated necro 1st because they are in a terrible state in pve and for pvp they are pigeon holed into cheesy builds. And we all know how terrible the traits are atm.

Engi I rated 2nd because in pve they are in a pretty sorry state aswell. They have some redeeming qualities but overall they miss the mark. Plus their traits are pretty messy aswell. They’ve gradually improved recently though.

spoj.9672:

Anyway I wont dispute pvp problems. But from a pve perspective. Rangers are in a fairly decent place, they could use a little help. Mainly changing the sword auto. So i rated them 3rd.

rangers are stuck with a kittened up, unreliable class mechanic that needs work. maybe theyre fine in terms of power, but something has to be done about the pets and their kittenty AI/cast times.

RashanDale.3609:

spoj.9672:

Anyway I wont dispute pvp problems. But from a pve perspective. Rangers are in a fairly decent place, they could use a little help. Mainly changing the sword auto. So i rated them 3rd.

rangers are stuck with a kittened up, unreliable class mechanic that needs work. maybe theyre fine in terms of power, but something has to be done about the pets and their kittenty AI/cast times.

Pet classes always have this problem, at least in every game I have ever played. If you balance around the pet living, it has to have almost godlike immunity to incidental AOE, making it uncounterable, or it gets blown up easily by AOE.

Balance their damage around the PET and they see a DPS drop no matter when when the pet gets gibbed, or balance around no pet and they are too strong when the pet is up. Pet mechanic classes where the pet is responsible for damage are a terrible idea, always.

What they should have done is diversified the pets and make them more of a utility instead of a DPS source. More active play with the pet and pet skills, less reliance on the pet killing things.

Rennoko.5731:

Pet classes always have this problem, at least in every game I have ever played. If you balance around the pet living, it has to have almost godlike immunity to incidental AOE, making it uncounterable, or it gets blown up easily by AOE.

i never said anything about random AoE and stuff like that. i was talking about how sluggy it is. it cant attack while moving; most of the F2-skills have ridiculous casting times and take ages to perform (because anet loves dem pretty animations). why does a kittening shout or leap need 2 seconds of cast time?

im pretty sure there would be ways to make the pet more survivable in zergs, pve and other aoe-fests without overpowering it.

cap the dps it receives, give the ranger more ways to actively protect it from damage… something like that.

Pet mechanic classes where the pet is responsible for damage are a terrible idea, always.

now that is just baseless generalisation. so DPS-pet is awful because the dps drops when the pets dead. but utility-pets would be better cause…why exactly?

RashanDale.3609:

Rennoko.5731:

Pet classes always have this problem, at least in every game I have ever played. If you balance around the pet living, it has to have almost godlike immunity to incidental AOE, making it uncounterable, or it gets blown up easily by AOE.

i never said anything about random AoE and stuff like that. i was talking about how sluggy it is. it cant attack while moving; most of the F2-skills have ridiculous casting times and take ages to perform (because anet loves dem pretty animations). why does a kittening shout or leap need 2 seconds of cast time?

im pretty sure there would be ways to make the pet more survivable in zergs, pve and other aoe-fests without overpowering it.

cap the dps it receives, give the ranger more ways to actively protect it from damage… something like that.

Pet mechanic classes where the pet is responsible for damage are a terrible idea, always.

now that is just baseless generalisation. so DPS-pet is awful because the dps drops when the pets dead. but utility-pets would be better cause…why exactly?

Because you will have more control over your dps and your pet becomes a trick pony, like minions with some added dps if you are lucky.. though you both are right in your own way ^^

Then again half the damage people do is being lucky..

RashanDale.3609:

now that is just baseless generalisation. so DPS-pet is awful because the dps drops when the pets dead. but utility-pets would be better cause…why exactly?

It is most certainly a generatlization, but I would say my own experience would at least give it some reasonable basing, not that I have extensive experience, but I am getting on in the years. I played a pet class for 5+ years before this game, and suffered with the good and the bad.

The reason why having Utility pets would make more sense, is simply that it would mimic a regular utility, which is reasonable to balance. An orb that floats on your shoulder and does things is much easier to balance when it can’t be targetted, than if someone can burst it down an effectively reduce your effectiveness by 25%… that is what always happens to pet classes in large scale situations. No one wants to play a class where 25% of it’s damage is tied up in a useless NPC.

Obviously immune pets running around doing things would be more annoying than what we have right now, but if they were tethered close to the ranger it would be better. Imagine then they could get a large damage buff to make up for it… I can’t imagine anything other than gold farmers that would disagree with that change.

I certainly don’t have the answers to making pet classes work well, but there are always issues with them no matter how they are implemented, which is why they are the red-headed step child. Lots of classes have clunky weapons, but that isn’t why Ranger is so bad.

Bhawb.7408:

Rangers are kitten, in both design and play.
Eles are kitten, especially with build diversity (there is none)

Talk about pvp all you want, but in pve both of them got more viable and useful builds than both guardians and engie (not to mention mesmers and necros who have 3 functional pve builds each).
One big thing about ele is that they are/were used to having free 90% more stats than the rest of the players and 4 blast finishers/each of their permavigor dodges giving combos and dont wanna admit that just as necro have no solution to combat mobility, eles have no solution to actually being kittenty at micro managing their cooldowns and attunements (you got the defensive tools on both staff and focus to survive anything, if you dont use them or dont want to its not the enemies problem), but a few things are true:
Ranger pets need to be better controlled, but also have less cc that procs at random ai decision (both for pve and probably for pvp… idk for that that much since they usually chase someone out of position), but always a actually good F2 (cough boar picking up gunk aint worth it).
Their traits need to be streamlined into synergy (why doesnt application of opening strikes from sources that aint going out of combat also apply to my pet if i got the trait that says that pets get opening strikes).

Eles need to get their attunement lines to matter having kinda a (Fire/Conjure, Air/Glyph Earth/Signet, Water/Cantrip and Arcane/Arcana) more “our current death magic” feel to it because it actually makes sense for them.

universally: less quadpolar skill trees for all professions.

A fix to Ranger Pet AI may not be so remote from some of the problems Necromancer have.

Pregnantman.8259:

A fix to Ranger Pet AI may not be so remote from some of the problems Necromancer have.

Im sorry but my melandu stalker, jungle spider, Ldevourer and dRake generally obey my F1 and F3. True all ai pathing is kittened up, but in order its: Clones>Elementals>Pets>Spirits>Minions>Turrets (they are bipolar only because they are static tho, would be as bad as minions if they could move).

Talk about pvp all you want, but in pve both of them got more viable and useful builds than both guardians and engie (not to mention mesmers and necros who have 3 functional pve builds each).

Guardians are completely op in pve. Really good damage while also bring insane amounts of utility and support (20/25/0/0/25 or 10/25/0/10/25). If you want to completely faceroll any content just take two decent guardians.

Its true eles and mesmers have a lot of builds but if considering actually good builds they are more variants of the same build. Whereas necros have 3 completely different builds and all of them are pretty bad for pve.

It certainly doesn’t help that guardians only add to Stack Wars 2 in dungeons. I remember when I first did the final boss of AC path 3, it was hard, and I struggled to use Plague Signet to deal with confusion on the party. Then I went on my guardian with a guildmate who was also a guardian. We stacked in one spot. Our health bars did not move.

Guardian: Someone gets some nasty conditions? I shout and heal their conditions. I wave my glowing sword and heal their conditions. I fart in their general direction and heal their conditions.
Need some healing? I’ll just roll and hit some things and yell a lot and you’ll be healed.
Need some DPS? I’ll just stand in one spot and cleave everything with my blinding particle effects of JUSTICE. Speaking of blind, did you know that every time I kill something I can press F1 to do blind, vulnerable, burning and might? Way cooler than life force.
Need boons? There’s more where that came from. Taste area stability and might on crit!
Need a rez? I’ll just toss on one of my many blocks and wave my hands over your body until you are good as new.
Need to solo something tough? Sure, no problem. By the time I somehow get a booboo with permanent vigor, one of my heals/blocks/invulnerabilities should be ready to help me out.

Necromancer: Someone gets some nasty conditions? Well, hopefully Well of Power will be enough, because Plague Signet does whatever it wants to and Putrid Mark got demolished. Condition master, no more.
Need some healing? Sure, I’ll just throw on this healing build and do less healing than a berserker elementalist, then get kicked out of the group for being worthless.
Need some DPS? Well, I have that…I guess…still not as good as some other people who have things besides DPS too…
Need boons? You better ask someone else.
Need a rez? Hope Signet of Undeath is fast enough, because I can’t rez you in Death Shroud, my source of defense.
Need to solo something tough? Pfffft. My thief has better solo sustain than my necromancer, the attrition profession.

The difference between guardian and necromancer: guardian gets defense in the form of area buffs/healing/blocks/reflect. Necromancer gets defense in the form of some extra health with a 7-10 second cooldown.

Decent guardians dont take heal on dodge or shout cleanses. I was talking purely from a meta perspective. Did fractals the other day with some guildies. And we usually dont run guardians but we decided to take 2 to see how easy it was. Both full dps meta builds and we didnt wipe once. Ascalon and dredge was a breeze. We didnt need stealth we just LoS’d and dps’d every group of mobs with barely a single down. If you do this kind of tactic with a more balanced group in meta builds theres a good chance that people will lose a lot of hp and maybe have 1 or two wipes at some point in dredge due to mistakes with reflects or just bad rng.

That being said necro is another class that can faceroll dredge pretty easily but if your group is bad you will have a hard time.

Even if a guardian doesn’t take shout cleanses, it is trivial for guardian to put down a field and finish for area condition clense of everybody who is stacked.

Anyways, ranger probably needs the most help, elemental it’s second, but necromancer is third and necromancer will not be as easy to fix.

How to fix ranger:

1. Bows should pierce without the trait. Warrior bows do.
2. No skill (in the game not just ranger) should need more than 2 traits to max out
3. Some new trait or weapon skill condition removal.
4. Some pets should melee cleave

How to fix elementalist.

1. New 30 pt trait to specialize and dramatically lower cool downs in fire, ice, earth, wind. Attune swapper should not be the only viable play style. (this will greatly help the skill cap problem)
2. Fix FGS exploit.
3. Increase damage on auto attacks,

Done. Elementalist and ranger fixt.

How to fix necromancers.

1. Cleaving melee attack
2. Heal in Death shroud
3. Some sort of party support. boons would be nice something like spotter better
4. #Bringbackshade.
5. No skill in the game should take more than 2 traits to max.
6. Finishers on weapon skills, at least one finisher on a death shroud skill.

Rangers also rely heavily on pets. Utility and huge chunk of dps comes from the pet. If you take it away (permanent stow), you just go around a class mechanic, making it useless, along with a whole traitline, but Arena net already did this with necro, so i dont see a true problem. Sword auto is also clunky as hell and annoying.

Ele is just squishy and requires a decent group, to not melt after a few seconds, but at least they provide heavy offensive support via dps, fire fields and might / fury stacking.
Fixing FGS (alongside with every “gap closer” to require a target) will cause an inevitable drop out from the meta, especially if Anet manage to fix the 1 attunement problem. Ele shouldnt sit in only one attunement to be effective.

Agree on necro. And some improvement across the board with conditions would be nice to see, since its a big problem against players too.