Guild Wars 2

Titles says it, so can we? It is such an annoyance when you’re in pvp (pve wise also) and your minion is running around, at 50 HP and so much as tickle kills it, when you need it most. It would be fine if the cool down timer started as soon as you summoned the minion. If not, at least give us an option to dismiss our minions so we don’t have to wait until someone kills it, to then wait for a long cd just to re-summon them.

Yeah, for some reason only flesh golem heals after combat, for everyone else I had to use mark of blood/healing seed to at least somehow let them live a bit longer

I think minions not healing in combat is AN’s attempt at a middle road between Summons (Elementalist’s Elementals, for example) and Pets (Ranger’s pets).

Historically and lore-wise, Minions are involuntary servants of a master who were not loyal to the master and the master had on loyalty to the Minion. Minions are simply disposable pawns. Pets, however, have mutual relationships and loyalties with their masters. A game can’t be slave to lore or “real-world” or history, but that’s the background.

Summons are time-based summons where you basically have one (maybe two) and they die after N seconds. You have no control over them or their skills.

Pets last indefinitely, unless they’re literally overwhelmed and killed, and you have much greater control over their actions and skills.

Minions and Illusions are somewhere in the middle between Summons and Pets. Illusions are not summons since they’re not time-limited, but like summons you can’t control them. The key difference is that they’re tied to a particular target and only ever directly attack that target, and if the target dies the Illusion goes away.

Minions can last indefinitely and some of them provide some skill control to the Necro. But they don’t regen, so if they’re actually used in combat they will eventually die. I’d actually classify the the Flesh Golem Elite as a pet, since it regens and has a skill that’s controllable by the Necro (and that can force it to attack a target).

If all Minions regen’d, they’d be almost the same as a pet, and considering a Necro can have a handful of them out, I’d say a lot of Rangers would be unhappy that the masters of pets can only have one out while these Necro guys can have 4 or 5 no problem.

In my mind, AN has to maintain the Summons/Minion/Illusion/Pet distinction so if AN closed the Minion-Pet gap with Minions regening, they’d have to open it up again by making Minions weaker in some sense (or restricting how many we could have at one time, or something like that).

The exception is that our Elite is in fact pet-like, though of course we can only have one of them at a time.

But a minion with a sliver of life left after a battle is a useless minion, which happens very often. Should we wait around for another 30 sec twiddling our thumbs waiting to re-summon? Or, blow a healing well and wait AGAIN for that timer? That’s not fun, nor intuitive. Minions are not nearly as tough as pets or controllable at all, so a minion who regens OOC doesn’t effect anyone. Its not overpowered or unbalalnced. If someone can explain an imbalance that it creates, I’d love to know.

Seems like something any braindead tester would notice within minutes of playing back in an alpha stage. How it got into beta, I’ll never understand.

A full pet build also takes ALL of our utility slots. That is a pretty steep cost. It is true that mesmers have Phantasm utility skills but they are widely ignored, especially in regards to pvp situations.

I would rather jagged horrors just flat out not decay. 9/10 they’ve decayed and died before I even get to the next fight.

Vexor.3640:

A full pet build also takes ALL of our utility slots. That is a pretty steep cost. It is true that mesmers have Phantasm utility skills but they are widely ignored, especially in regards to pvp situations.

You don’t need to go to the extreme to surpass the Pet Profession, Ranger. Heck, the Flesh Golem (Elite slot) is already as good as a pet: it regens and can be commanded to attack. You only need to use one more utility slot to have twice as many as a Ranger, leaving two free slots… IF Minions are basically as good as pets.

The fact that you could fill your utility slots with Minion-like Pets is just adding insult to injury.

Vexor.3640:

I would rather jagged horrors just flat out not decay. 9/10 they’ve decayed and died before I even get to the next fight.

I’ve never heard a Necro that likes JH. I’ve seen and mentioned three or four changes in other threads. JHs are a totally different kind of thing which isn’t summon, minion, illusion, or pet. And it doesn’t really work very well.

I am curious what the community thinks of this idea.

Instead of giving minion regen, make it so the Blood Fiend also heals minions. This supports the MM build while keeping the game play mostly similar for power/condi builds (while giving them a hybrid MM option).

QSpec.4298:

I am curious what the community thinks of this idea.

Instead of giving minion regen, make it so the Blood Fiend also heals minions. This supports the MM build while keeping the game play mostly similar for power/condi builds (while giving them a hybrid MM option).

Anet can make different option as allowing us to use mark of blood any time on our minions ( without the existence of foes ).

adding regen to pet wont help.

I have enouf boon buff to get 8 sec from 1 mark of blood and i can use mark of blood every 4 sec plus i have added the mark of blood cast when you dodge , i pretty much can keep regen on them all the time but it still wont keep them alive .. pets survibility is pure garbage even with the 50% health buff they die in like 4-6 hits and if there aoe damage they are dead in a blink of a eye

I am minion lover and is the reason i started playing necro and the reason i stop , pets system on this game is broken and useless atm

This is a pretty simple “Quality of Life” fix that should have been in all along, just like the sorts of fixes Ranger pets have received.

It’s clumsy and stupid to have to rely on Well of Blood / Mark of Blood / etc as an out of combat regen; playing the class for five minutes should make that apparent to anybody; that people have gotten used to working around this oversight doesn’t make it any less of an oversight.

Nope, nope, let’s take it back to Guild Wars 1. When you have a pet skill equipped, you get a F2 ability, Blood of the Master. Take some damage, maybe even a short self-bleed, heal all minions and give them regen for a short time.

Durian.5419:

Nope, nope, let’s take it back to Guild Wars 1. When you have a pet skill equipped, you get a F2 ability, Blood of the Master. Take some damage, maybe even a short self-bleed, heal all minions and give them regen for a short time.

You have forgotten the main healing source to our minions which was http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Blood_Bond ( heal them with each hit , heals more if the foe died during the curse )

Druitt.7629:

Vexor.3640:

A full pet build also takes ALL of our utility slots. That is a pretty steep cost. It is true that mesmers have Phantasm utility skills but they are widely ignored, especially in regards to pvp situations.

You don’t need to go to the extreme to surpass the Pet Profession, Ranger. Heck, the Flesh Golem (Elite slot) is already as good as a pet: it regens and can be commanded to attack. You only need to use one more utility slot to have twice as many as a Ranger, leaving two free slots… IF Minions are basically as good as pets.

The fact that you could fill your utility slots with Minion-like Pets is just adding insult to injury.

Vexor.3640:

I would rather jagged horrors just flat out not decay. 9/10 they’ve decayed and died before I even get to the next fight.

I’ve never heard a Necro that likes JH. I’ve seen and mentioned three or four changes in other threads. JHs are a totally different kind of thing which isn’t summon, minion, illusion, or pet. And it doesn’t really work very well.

2 things:
1. the ranger’s pet is far stronger than anything we get as utilities. The ranger pet not only scales with much more intensity than necromancer minions, but they also have 4 abilities of their own and are much easier to control. The only reason the flesh golem is comparable is that you have to use your elite slot to get it in the first place.

2. The jagged horror is a minion, the problem is that it doesn’t do much [read: anything] even if the necromancer is running a minion build. I personally like Jagged horrors myself, but it simply is too lacking to be useful.

Drakent.9605:

adding regen to pet wont help.

I have enouf boon buff to get 8 sec from 1 mark of blood and i can use mark of blood every 4 sec plus i have added the mark of blood cast when you dodge , i pretty much can keep regen on them all the time but it still wont keep them alive .. pets survibility is pure garbage even with the 50% health buff they die in like 4-6 hits and if there aoe damage they are dead in a blink of a eye

I am minion lover and is the reason i started playing necro and the reason i stop , pets system on this game is broken and useless atm

You can’t use Mark of Blood outside of combat. I have the same thing, with quite a few points in healing, and I still run to the next battle with pets on half or less HP very often.

I agree it’s dumb to run into a fight with pets on low HP so that they die instantly, making it so they go on recharge. At least some of the pets you can destroy and resummon, but you still have to wait on recharges. It’s just obnoxious.

I’m new to Guild Wars, but I can’t help but think anyone that wants minions to regen doesn’t understand the minion’s purpose. I mean they are summoned undead, there is no “quality of life” for undead creatures. They aren’t pets, they aren’t meant to last and survive battles, their job (save for the Flesh Golem) is to distract your enemy long enough for you or your Flesh Golem to finish them off. They’re cannon fodder, and aren’t meant to pose any real threat. You’ll notice that the weaker minions have a CD timer of 30-40 seconds whereas the only minion that regens health is on a 60 second timer, that seems to point to my minion philosophy being the intended philosophy. At least this is how I view/treat my minions, and I think they’re working as inteded.

Cue the veterans ganging up on the new guy for having an opinion.

Megothier.3847:

They’re cannon fodder, and aren’t meant to pose any real threat

No they don’t, they can do a lot of dmg.
Also, they would be cannon fodder if they hadn’t 30s cd.

GW1 minions COULD be cannon fodder.

Megothier.3847:

I’m new to Guild Wars, but I can’t help but think anyone that wants minions to regen doesn’t understand the minion’s purpose. I mean they are summoned undead, there is no “quality of life” for undead creatures. They aren’t pets, they aren’t meant to last and survive battles, their job (save for the Flesh Golem) is to distract your enemy long enough for you or your Flesh Golem to finish them off. They’re cannon fodder, and aren’t meant to pose any real threat. You’ll notice that the weaker minions have a CD timer of 30-40 seconds whereas the only minion that regens health is on a 60 second timer, that seems to point to my minion philosophy being the intended philosophy. At least this is how I view/treat my minions, and I think they’re working as inteded.

Cue the veterans ganging up on the new guy for having an opinion.

I’d actually like to support this view: minions should be disposable. Bone Minions, Blood Fiend and the Flesh Wurm do this very well, since their activation skill is quite powerful, but sacrifices them. As well as a few traits which promote positive effects on their death. (Death Nova is the most obvious example, but the reduced minion recharge time trait also applies)

Unfortunately, some of the minions don’t seem to work this way. Bone Fiend and Shadow Fiend can have their effects triggered multiple times in their lifetime, and can be healed through a few methods. As well, traits like increasing minion damage, removing a boon on attack, and siphoning health are obviously more helpful to the play style that keeps a minion up for as long as possible.

I’m not sure how to take it, really. It could just be that you can have your cake and eat it too by taking as many of the traits as possible, or it could be that they’re left in to give two distinct options of how to play minions. I mean, some of the necromancer audio snippets (No! I hand raised that minion!) imply their death is a huge hinderance, while others (They’re so… Disposable) brush it off as nothing.

Edit:

Also, they would be cannon fodder if they hadn’t 30s cd.

Well, this skill has a 20 second recharge (untraited) and summons two minions. If they’re strong enough to not get one-shot, that’s 4 single target hits soaked. Obviously they can’t soak AoE for you… But very few things can.

We can’t have regeneration on our minions because when we all noobs master Death Shroud, it will become so OP. So it’s better so keep things like they are now and when we reach that mastery, they will see what is OP or needs a buff.

Only HP regen for all pets would make sense for a necro class. Pet Necro players are sick and tired of running around with almost dead Pets all time and enter next fight with the feeling that it starts with an AoE that just killes all pets together in one shot….

Anet isnt doing much in the last days anyway, i guess i let my wife play her warrior for a few weeks before i try Necro again.

AH sorry ! Its not a Necro, its a Warlock !! …… i forgot…. the class just got the wrong name..

Necros won’t get OP because of minion regen, since they will regen health only out of combat it will be basically the same as re-summoning them, just with less annoyance. Stand alone minion won’t and shouldn’t be as powerful as pet, they should be powerful in group and act like zerg (imo given their low hp).

If minions regen out of fight, the only difference will be that they have full life instead of half. They won’t become stronger. They won’t walk out of AoE. They’re still stupid. They still die quickly. It only takes a few hits more.
A ranger can heal his pet in combat. We can’t properly do that. A ranger’s pet will regen after it died. Ours stay dead for good. So giving them OOC regen will never make them stronger than ranger pets. We just have more than one pet if we want to.

Megothier.3847:

I’m new to Guild Wars, but I can’t help but think anyone that wants minions to regen doesn’t understand the minion’s purpose. I mean they are summoned undead, there is no “quality of life” for undead creatures. They aren’t pets, they aren’t meant to last and survive battles, their job (save for the Flesh Golem) is to distract your enemy long enough for you or your Flesh Golem to finish them off. They’re cannon fodder, and aren’t meant to pose any real threat. You’ll notice that the weaker minions have a CD timer of 30-40 seconds whereas the only minion that regens health is on a 60 second timer, that seems to point to my minion philosophy being the intended philosophy. At least this is how I view/treat my minions, and I think they’re working as inteded.

Cue the veterans ganging up on the new guy for having an opinion.

I’m perfectly okay with my pets dying from damage, because that means they distracted an enemy. But it’s stupid to run into a group and a pet IMMEDIATELY dies. That’s not really the same thing as being cannon fodder. If anything, your argument is FOR them having out-of-combat regen. You can’t be cannon fodder if you can’t take any hits.

Can’t you just rotate the skill slot and recast?

Not that this is anything but clunky, especially in PvP.

KirinDave.6451:

Can’t you just rotate the skill slot and recast?

Not that this is anything but clunky, especially in PvP.

If you wait on the recharge every time, yes.

Dispari.3980:

KirinDave.6451:

Can’t you just rotate the skill slot and recast?

Not that this is anything but clunky, especially in PvP.

If you wait on the recharge every time, yes.

It triggers the cooldown if the minion was still out? I was pretty sure last night I was running around leveling my necro doing this and it wasn’t. Is my entire life a lie?

KirinDave.6451:

Dispari.3980:

KirinDave.6451:

Can’t you just rotate the skill slot and recast?

Not that this is anything but clunky, especially in PvP.

If you wait on the recharge every time, yes.

It triggers the cooldown if the minion was still out? I was pretty sure last night I was running around leveling my necro doing this and it wasn’t. Is my entire life a lie?

I tested it before posting. It sets the power on cooldown if the minion is out when you do it.

I support having all minions regen health while out of combat. If the Flesh Golem needs to retain it’s “elite” status as a result, make it so the Flesh Golem has a permanent, unremovable Regenerate boon on it.

Zaxares.5419:

I support having all minions regen health while out of combat. If the Flesh Golem needs to retain it’s “elite” status as a result, make it so the Flesh Golem has a permanent, unremovable Regenerate boon on it.

Flesh golem is already big leap from other minions, I don’t think that it should have passive regen, then it would be a bit OP.