Guild Wars 2

In PvP I use a Rabid amulet, in PvE I don’t even own a Rabid armor set.
I own a Carrion+Rampager mix which is my favorite, and sometimes I use my Knight+Zerker mix or Soldier’s set for other stuff.

The Soldier’s is pretty useless for anything else than making people waste time killing you in WvW though.

sas.6483:

Personally, if I were to use condi damage in WvW, I’d go PVT with undead runes and carrion gemming.

Hrm. This sounds like an odd way to build for condition damage.

According to the below builder -please correct me if I’m wrong- the sweet spot is a mix:

Weapon: Carrion
Armour: Rabid
Trinket: Amulet Rabid / Rest Carrion

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/necromancer/?5.0|6.1h.h1k|b.1h.h1k.8.1h.h5|1b.716.1b.716.1b.716.1b.716.1b.716.1b.716|1b.9b.1h.62.1h.62.1h.62.1h.62.1h.62|0.u467.a2.0.u49b|30.d|3r.48.3x.3w.4f|e

Ascii,
I am sorry but :
In 24.5 s ,the sigil of earth can only proc 13 times…
24.5/2=12.25 so if the first hit is at 0s,it will proc 13 times if you do only critics.The number of hits doesn’t matter there.
Indeed,you can simplify all this just by supposing that every 2s, a bleed will be proced by the sigil of earth since in 2s you will hit 4 times and you’re supposed to critics 1x every 2 hits which take 1s.And in 4 hits,you proc at least 1 bleeding with the sigil.
Thank you for your post Ascii,i had never realised how much bleeding damage was lost because of the sigil cooldown.Since in a perfect scenario,you do average 1 critic each 1s,for the sigil of earth to proc a bleed,you will need : 1/0.60=1.666 s.
So you need 1.666 s to proc a bleed with scepter 1 with the sigil of earth but because of the cooldown,it can proc only once every 2s.It is a 20% proc bleed damage lost.
I’ve just thought of it,if you notice any mistake ,please tell me.

Sas,
If you have 50% crit, the expected number of hits until proc from an uncooldown state can be from 1 to infinity . The expected number of hits between procs is 5 to infinity …

In 24.5 seconds (49 critical auto-attacks) Earth sigil has a maximum of 19 times to proc and is accurate if you proc on the 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th hit. 60% chance applied to the 19 hits is 11.4 procs on average.

Liquid.9672:

sas.6483:

Personally, if I were to use condi damage in WvW, I’d go PVT with undead runes and carrion gemming.

Hrm. This sounds like an odd way to build for condition damage.

With food, 30 in Curses and ascended accessories you’d still have ~1400 condition damage.
At this point it’s not odd at all to invest in more power and survivability.
The only downside would be having a low critical chance. So on-crit effects are out of the question.

Cempa.5619:

According to the below builder -please correct me if I’m wrong- the sweet spot is a mix: …

Maybe that’s the sweet spot for the build you posted…? It’s hard to say without trying it out. But in general, I believe that even a slight change in traits or choice in weapons means that the sweet spot for gear prefixes shifts one way or the other.

Ascii.9726:

In 24.5 seconds (49 critical auto-attacks) Earth sigil has a maximum of 19 times to proc and is accurate if you proc on the 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th hit. 60% chance applied to the 19 hits is 11.4 procs on average.

Do I have my wires crossed? How can a Sigil with a 2 sec internal CD proc 19/24,5?

I have both and I like rabid more. Reason isn’t on the damage side but more on the survival.

It’s vit vs toughness and I’ve said many times, toughness > vit in pve. They give roughly the same EHP, but you only get half of your HP back when you heal in carrion. While you can heal almost full in rabid. Unless you’re in situations that there’s a lot of armor ignoring damage like condition, toughness > vit.

If they come up with a P(ower)TC with Cond. dmg being the major stat, I’ll definitely jump on that.

Your right flow, my logic flailed. Was a problem with the highlight and drag i used in excel xD.

Mons was indeed right, 13 times @ 49% critical chance with 7.8 being the average (5,719 bleed damage).

mons.1386:

Sas,
If you have 50% crit, the expected number of hits until proc from an uncooldown state can be from 1 to infinity . The expected number of hits between procs is 5 to infinity …

No, I don’t think so, at least for the expectation part.

The number of hits until proc (off cooldown) is roughly geometrically distributed, with parameter p = p.crit * p.proc and expectation 1/p. The expected number of hits until proc once cooldown is begun is equal to the number of hits achieved in 2 seconds + the expected number of hits until proc (off cooldown). The expected number of procs in 100 hits is roughly 1 + (100 – 1/p) / (N.2secs + 1/p).

100 hits = about 14 procs, with an average of about 7.33 hits between each proc at 50% crit. If the hits are coming every half second, you’re getting one proc every 3.5ish seconds, which is perfectly within the cooldown limits. I think that was Ascii’s original problem conditions.

For attack sequences with uneven sequence timings (e.g. scepter) things are more complicated, but only slightly so.

Can’t totally guarantee this calculation, but off the top of my head, it’s roughly right… I can provide a simulation code if you want.

Sas,

What i meant is that the earth sigil can proc a bleed on the 1st,6th,11th,16th hit etc …Or never.
Not expected but a probability as well.

flow.6043:

Liquid.9672:

sas.6483:

Personally, if I were to use condi damage in WvW, I’d go PVT with undead runes and carrion gemming.

Hrm. This sounds like an odd way to build for condition damage.

With food, 30 in Curses and ascended accessories you’d still have ~1400 condition damage.
At this point it’s not odd at all to invest in more power and survivability.
The only downside would be having a low critical chance. So on-crit effects are out of the question.

Hmmm I took his post to mean PVT trinkets as well, with just Carrion gemming. Not gonna hit 1,400 Cond Dmg that way.

The sweet spot for Sigil of Earth is very likely under 50% crit due to lost procs from the sigil being on cooldown. The more precision you get, the more diminishing returns you will see on how much bleeding is returned from the sigil. Instead could have Power that benefits all the time.

Another problem I had with the Earth Sigil, it screws you up from running an on-swap sigil on your other weapon set, because very frequently when you swap the Earth Sigil cooldown is going and your swap sigil does nothing.

mons.1386:

Sas,

What i meant is that the earth sigil can proc a bleed on the 1st,6th,11th,16th hit etc …Or never.
Not expected but a probability as well.

No worries dood, just pitching in a bit with some math work for ya.

If the hits are every 0.25 seconds, the expected number of procs in 25 seconds should be about 9. That’s a little more than the 7 ish you guys were calculating before. There’s 2 seconds + about 0.85 seconds waiting time between procs.

If the crit rate is 25%, I calculate the expected number of procs in 25 seconds to be about 7 (waiting time 2 + 1.65 seconds). If the crit rate is 5%, I calculate it to be about 2 (waiting time of about 8 seconds before the first proc, + 2 seconds, then 8 + 2 more seconds and you’re done). From this perspective, all crit isn’t quite as critical as you’d think; 25% might be sufficient.

To clarify about my armor choice – I don’t spec condition damage because you give up so much direct damage and straight survivability if you go all into it. I currently spec all PVT gear and use knight’s gems in all slots. But I have thought about going all PVT (everything), using undead and then gem in chryo gems. I think that gets a bleed up to about 75 damage per tick (in my current build) and gives a little more survivability, at the cost of 20% crit. If I were forced to go max condition damage and choose one or the other I think I’d go with carrion rather than rabid, because I wouldn’t want to give up wells.

If you epidemic/corrupt boon go Rabid
If you use wells go Carrion or Carrion/Rabid mix heck even some PVT mixed in the bunch will work great.

You are all kind of getting hung up on minor details. The answer is…. depends on your build and utility choices.

According to builders that allow for gear and consumables the best is a mix of both, something like Carrion Weapon/Armour and Rabid Trinkets.

Cempa.5619:

According to builders that allow for gear and consumables the best is a mix of both, something like Carrion Weapon/Armour and Rabid Trinkets.

If you are going to mix and match, I would just use celestial gear and Carrion armor/weapons. Celestial acessories have nice stat bonuses, good crit hit damage, and some condition damage as well.

I have a full set of celestial acessories, but I am just waiting to use them for when our healing improves.

Rennoko.5731:

Cempa.5619:

According to builders that allow for gear and consumables the best is a mix of both, something like Carrion Weapon/Armour and Rabid Trinkets.

If you are going to mix and match, I would just use celestial gear and Carrion armor/weapons. Celestial acessories have nice stat bonuses, good crit hit damage, and some condition damage as well.

I have a full set of celestial acessories, but I am just waiting to use them for when our healing improves.

Even without the healing-stat taken into account, Celestial items are very good. As soon as you can use 6 of the 7 stats, theyre imo better than normal gear.

Rings for example:
Normal ascended: 239 stat pts
Celestial ascended: 215 stat pts + 6% crit damage

thats an awesome Stats-for-crit-damage-ratio.

I currently use celestial stuff on my ele and guardian cause they also profit of the +Healing, but my necromancer will definitely get a set of them too at some point in the future, when i got enough rings and guild commendations for that.

If healing power had more uses on Necromancer beyond the standard 6 & regen i would use full ascended celestial trinkets without a doubt.

I’ve been running carrion in my necromancer, and I don’t plan to change that anytime soon. I do it for many reasons:

#1: It is easier to hybrid with. You can combine carrion with Power gear to get high power and high condition damage easily, whereas rabid you don’t have any power to hybrid with.

#2: Necromancers don’t have good procs to go with. We get some life-force gain and barbed precision, but that does very little in the long run. The most we can do is use sigils, but with rabid the only sigil you can use is Earth. Sigil of Earth is good in 1v1, but as a WvW Necro the added power is much better for my AoEs.

#3: Necromancer’s have better scaling with vitality than other classes. Since Life Force grows with maximum health and LF is generated on a percentage basis, this provides an alternate form of healing that scales up with vitality. Because of this, vitality has both immediate survivability and long-term survivability on the Necromancer.

Get analysis!!! i was wondering if you guys would post ur conditionmancer builds for comparison.

Thanks!

Don’t see the value in Celestial at all. Not only is healing power weak for Necro’s, but our base damage on attacks is too low for +Critical Damage to be worth much of anything. If you are Carrion based its even worse because your Crit % will be so low. By far the worst damaging stat for us outside melee builds, even if you are getting better ratios on trinkets. The precision isn’t that great either without full Rabid/Earth Sigil setup.