Guild Wars 2

We don’t need mobility. Dark Path could use a tracking buff and Spectral Grasp could use a reliability change, but we really don’t need mobility.

Defenses are the primary weaknesses that we shouldn’t have right now.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

Since we are on the subject And anet is trying to bring up unused traits…

Maybe they will make http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickening_Thirst a minor, or better merge it or something..

Problem solved. (for me) ^^

I think imo the best would be to make bloodthirst baseline for all siphons and put quickining thrist into the now free adept slot. And then give us a new master trait.

Muchacho.2390:

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

Since we are on the subject And anet is trying to bring up unused traits…

Maybe they will make http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickening_Thirst a minor, or better merge it or something..

Problem solved. (for me) ^^

I think imo the best would be to make bloodthirst baseline for all siphons and put quickining thrist into the now free adept slot. And then give us a new master trait.

And we would still have only two traits that get used in that slot: Mark of Evasion and Transfusion.

Sad, but pretty true.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Muchacho.2390:

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

Since we are on the subject And anet is trying to bring up unused traits…

Maybe they will make http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickening_Thirst a minor, or better merge it or something..

Problem solved. (for me) ^^

I think imo the best would be to make bloodthirst baseline for all siphons and put quickining thrist into the now free adept slot. And then give us a new master trait.

And we would still have only two traits that get used in that slot: Mark of Evasion and Transfusion.

Sad, but pretty true.

Actually with some buffs to all siphons i would try to use vampiric precision. I think it could work nicely with knights amulet if the buffs would be good enough.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Honestly, I don’t have any hope for this patch. The dagger hitting an extra target is nice, but at this point I feel it is just too little. My list of grievances with the necromancer is magnanimous on traits alone, let alone the general ineffectiveness of utilities and weapons. I imagine what we’ll get with this patch is Signet of Undeath boosting LF generation to 1.2% every 3 seconds, and then a several month wait before another change.

whered you come with qickening thirst? traveler is pretty much best rune for us , even arguably better for 1v1 as the nightmare pony is a 1x shot 90s CD, while traveler makes kiting possible

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

We don’t need mobility. Dark Path could use a tracking buff and Spectral Grasp could use a reliability change, but we really don’t need mobility.

Defenses are the primary weaknesses that we shouldn’t have right now.

We need mobility for non-zerg wvw. Roaming or what you want, because swiftness is not enough.

Without mobility we aren’t bad roamers, we are USELESS roamers. Because any group that see you and decide to chase you is: die or wp back.

Really? I roam successfully all the time on my necro. Yeah, sometimes I get caught by a zerg or havoc group, but just as often I’m soloing objectives or taking out potential dolyak threats.

Blackmoa.3186:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Mayama.1854:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I find that Necromancer is one of those professions that was designed more with PvP in mind. I’m sure all of the professions were made to have viability in both PvE and PvP, but I feel like certain ones were made to be stronger in one or the other. The changes don’t sound that exciting as of yet, but as someone who spends most of their time in WvW, I like what I’m seeing thus far.
It’s unfortunate we’re so horrible in PvE but I’m thankful that we’re at least very devastating in WvW/PvP. And if the changes are anything like I imagine, we’re only going to get meaner. So while I’m not exactly thrilled it appears we still won’t be very viable in dungeons, I am still happy we could potentially become even stronger in WvW/PvP.

Necromancer is not strong in PvP, how many necros do you see in good teams? Necros lack support, can easily be focused and killed because of the lack of defensive skills. Even the defs openly said in that post that necros lack defense. Class has no real burst compared to other professions so zerker is underperforming. Pointcapping isnt that great because our only way to push people out can be cleansed. Tanking? Engineers, Guardians and Warriors can do it better.

The only place that necromancer have in a player versus player enviroment is mindlessly spam marks and wells into an enemy zerg in WvW and roaming as terrormancer.

I disagree.

You can disagree as much as you want, but necro still is one of the weakest calsses in pvp at the moment, if not even the weakest. They offer basicaly nothing another class doesnt do better while being incredibly easy to focus and then being a nearly guaranteed stomp. The thing necros are exceptionaly good at is rallying opponents, which isnt realy a sought after quality.

Yes, the Necro CC.is crud.

Mai trin.
One powerful attack that can be dodged, but not blocked.
One powerful attack that can be blocked, but not dodged.

Necromancer has no blocks.

N’ uf said.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Really? I roam successfully all the time on my necro. Yeah, sometimes I get caught by a zerg or havoc group, but just as often I’m soloing objectives or taking out potential dolyak threats.

Its situational. If you play in a low tier server or non NA prime time you have more chances to not get caught by a zerg or big group. Try to roam in a populated server or main times.

I am not talking about fights, I am talking about “INCOMING! Get out of there FAST” and I reply “Don’t worry, I am a necro” and just minimize to check my facebook.

urieldhynne.2743:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Really? I roam successfully all the time on my necro. Yeah, sometimes I get caught by a zerg or havoc group, but just as often I’m soloing objectives or taking out potential dolyak threats.

Its situational. If you play in a low tier server or non NA prime time you have more chances to not get caught by a zerg or big group. Try to roam in a populated server or main times.

I am not talking about fights, I am talking about “INCOMING! Get out of there FAST” and I reply “Don’t worry, I am a necro” and just minimize to check my facebook.

In that case, I pop Spectral Wall and Plague and stall the zerg, letting my allies have a better chance at getting away.

Or waypoint. That happens a lot too.

Why are people saying we need defence not mobility? Are the two not intertwined? With the exception of guardians and engis, isn’;t every profession’s best defence the ability to disengage and reset the fight? Even with necros as they are now, aren’t our best tools for getting otu of bad situations Flesh Wurm and Spectral Walk, for all their imperfections? Sure you can extend the fight by going into DS or Plague, but that’s not gonna save you from dying, it’ll just keep your point capped a few seconds longer.

Also, even if Death Shroud or Spectral Armour or whatever were buffed, how much more survivability would that really give a d/d zerker necro? With no vigor, blocks, evades, and very little access to blind? If someone could 3-shot you before, well, at worst they can 4-shot you through protection.

Mobility, INHERENT mobility, which can be used either offensively OR defensively, is at the root of this game. Knowing when and how to use a movement skill is what separates the good players from the great ones. It’s the reason Mesmers are still being played in the top teams even though they’re in a much worse shape than necro in terms of power, and why thieves never disappeared from the meta even back at the height of the condi meta where if you caught them in your aoe they would melt.

The developers have been focussing on giving us snares instead of movement skills, which I guess is thematically appropriate, but there are problems with that:
a. our frequency of snare application just can’t keep up with the frequency of cleanses – especially if you’re runnign a power necro who has less access to cover condis
b. the high number of movement skills in this game render snares impotent (the max distance of charges is affected by cripple and chill, but you’re still moving faster than normal speed, and teleports/shadowsteps aren’t affected by snares at all)
c. our snares are mostly short ranged (with the exception of Dark Path, which is easy to outrun, and Chilblains, which has a very long recharge), meaning if you’re trying to keep a melee attacker at bay they work (barring movement skills, see b. above), but if you’re trying to chase someoen down they’re useless.
d. both pvp and wvw are inherently based on mobility, so having none sucks!

Because mobility is not part of our design. Its like asking for Guardian to get a bunch of flat mobility (which they don’t have, their only decent mobility is towards targets or on weapon sets that have awful mitigation).

We are built to face tank, our profession’s theme is based on essentially face tanking, so give us the tools to face tank. I don’t want to play ele 0.5, I don’t want to be mesmer pt. 2, I want to be a Necromancer, which does not involve lots of mobility.

Bhawb.7408:

Because mobility is not part of our design. Its like asking for Guardian to get a bunch of flat mobility (which they don’t have, their only decent mobility is towards targets or on weapon sets that have awful mitigation).

We are built to face tank, our profession’s theme is based on essentially face tanking, so give us the tools to face tank. I don’t want to play ele 0.5, I don’t want to be mesmer pt. 2, I want to be a Necromancer, which does not involve lots of mobility.

You’re never going to facetank a guardian/warrior melee train short of being given aoe reduction or a crapton of damage immunity.

This game’s damage was never designed to be facetanked. Mossman at fractal 50 autoattacks for about 9-10k damage, as does the archdiviner. In WvW the concentrated damage is even worse, and warriors/guardians have heavy armor, CC immunity via a crapton of stability on top fo their hard aoe CC on top of immunity skills and actually good heals.

And most importantly guardians/warriors have a 5 man cleave. Raising necro dagger to 2 targets is a joke when warrior axe autoattack already does more damage than dagger autoattack and cleaves more targets. When warriors get their new arcing slice, that thing hits for ridiculous aoe damage on targets at 50% just you watch.

And the thing is once they buff you to deal with guardians and warrior combos, a necro will just crap on mesmer/eles too much.

What they have always needed to do is nerf warrior/guardian/thief, but we know that will never happen.

Finally, a melee cleave. Now they just need to increase it to 3 targets over two and then add in some proper team utility and necro will be on it’s way to almost usable in group pve.

Zenith – neither guardians nor warriors have 5 target autoattacks excepting hammers which do hit 5 targets on the last part of the attack chain iirc.

Bhawb.7408:

Because mobility is not part of our design. Its like asking for Guardian to get a bunch of flat mobility (which they don’t have, their only decent mobility is towards targets or on weapon sets that have awful mitigation).

We are built to face tank, our profession’s theme is based on essentially face tanking, so give us the tools to face tank. I don’t want to play ele 0.5, I don’t want to be mesmer pt. 2, I want to be a Necromancer, which does not involve lots of mobility.

Saying it’s not part of our design is redundant, I know that, it’s the reason I’m moaning about this! And that’s not an argument for us not to have mobility, it’s just a completely arbitrary design decision, which doesn’t work anyway: our “attrition” is a joke, and our durability practically nonexistent. Also, saying Guardian doesn’t have mobility and then giving examples of Guardian movement skills just makes me wonder whether you even realise you’re contradicting yourself. I see plenty of DPS guardians running around with GS (there was at least one in TOL2 tonight in fact!), so I don’t get why you’re dismissive of it.

I think it’s plain that the developers’ design concept just doesn’t work. You can’t take a cloth class, give it no ability to disengage from a fight, give it no abilities that allow it to stay in a fight either (eg vigor, blocks, invulnerabilities etc), and tell them they’re supposed to facetank damage using only DS. Taking some tired, overworked developer’s fevered ideas from 3+ years ago and holding them as gospel despite them being completely idiotic is the very reason this game is bleeding players and alienating the ones still left.

manveruppd.7601:

Bhawb.7408:

Because mobility is not part of our design. Its like asking for Guardian to get a bunch of flat mobility (which they don’t have, their only decent mobility is towards targets or on weapon sets that have awful mitigation).

We are built to face tank, our profession’s theme is based on essentially face tanking, so give us the tools to face tank. I don’t want to play ele 0.5, I don’t want to be mesmer pt. 2, I want to be a Necromancer, which does not involve lots of mobility.

Saying it’s not part of our design is redundant, I know that, it’s the reason I’m moaning about this! And that’s not an argument for us not to have mobility, it’s just a completely arbitrary design decision, which doesn’t work anyway: our “attrition” is a joke, and our durability practically nonexistent. Also, saying Guardian doesn’t have mobility and then giving examples of Guardian movement skills just makes me wonder whether you even realise you’re contradicting yourself. I see plenty of DPS guardians running around with GS (there was at least one in TOL2 tonight in fact!), so I don’t get why you’re dismissive of it.

I think it’s plain that the developers’ design concept just doesn’t work. You can’t take a cloth class, give it no ability to disengage from a fight, give it no abilities that allow it to stay in a fight either (eg vigor, blocks, invulnerabilities etc), and tell them they’re supposed to facetank damage using only DS. Taking some tired, overworked developer’s fevered ideas from 3+ years ago and holding them as gospel despite them being completely idiotic is the very reason this game is bleeding players and alienating the ones still left.

What is redundant is people like you who keep suggesting mobility for necromancer when it was clearly stated by anet that it is against their philisophy. You might as well ask them to give us stealth while you’re at it.

http://awesomegifs.com/wp-content/uploads/dead-horse.gif

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Really? I roam successfully all the time on my necro. Yeah, sometimes I get caught by a zerg or havoc group, but just as often I’m soloing objectives or taking out potential dolyak threats.

^ You can roam just fine as a Necromancer, this guy gets it. Yes I strongly agree that if people come your way it’s either die or WP but if you know your limits it happens a lot less. I very much prefer to be solo because often times when people want to group up with me they go balls deep in fights they won’t win then get mad when I’m not helping. You have to know what you can and cannot survive and what’s the best path to take to avoid being spotted. Roaming isn’t about fighting it’s about being a pain in the neck for the offending servers. I’m not saying you should avoid fighting other players because it’s a huge part of what makes roaming exciting, I’m just saying if you have no mobility you should really take the time to decide whether it’s a good idea or not first. I had been roaming for a long time on Jade Quarry and recently transferred to Desolation, both of which are T1 servers and rarely have any periods of inactivity and I still have very little trouble. Honestly zergs almost never kill me, it’s 4 – 5 man groups that are the problem. I can deal with solos and occasionally duos just fine, it’s the havoc squads that will chase you across the map that are a pain.

Anyway on topic: I don’t think we need mobility we need sustain, and this patch is apparently addressing that. So we’ll see what becomes of us after the update. All I know is that as of right now, I can out tank people better on my Ranger than I can on my Necromancer so I see some problems in the way of “attrition” at the moment. I’ve always loved the idea of siphoning so I seriously hope they make it stronger. With how quick dagger attacks are you can get a fair bit of health return when using siphoning traits but it’s still not enough because of how close we have to be to our targets to even hit them. Dagger range is like non-existent.

Dont ask for more mobility we aint getting it, we have Spectral Walk, Wurm, Locust Signet, Quickening Thirst (wich I wouldnt use if u payed me) but we aint getting more thats made perfectly clear by Anet.

They want the Necro to stay and fight, to win by “attrition” (a word tnx to Anet I learned to despise)they want us to soak up damage like spunge and the tools we have bin given for this purpose is: Condi pressure, Life Siphon, Deathshroud and highest health-pool.

Condi Pressure well I can say I dont loose to any other Condi-Specced proffesion 1v1 when Terror-specced but attrition it isnt. Deathshroud I do love and is the main reason I play Necro but it synergys better with power then Condi imho and its still much more a offensive tool then a defensive attrition-tool… mainly cause the “new” XIII-traits is utter crap.

Life Siphon here is were they need to Focus imo, they need to bring this upto par with Warriors Healing Signet and Eles Signet of Restoration/Water attunement. Make it viable, here is were we Necs can get a taste of Anet’s “attrition”….

and plz dont put Life Siphon traits in 3 diffrent traitlines

I have mained a Necro for a while and until recently I played Elementalist and Mesmer (with a sprinkle of Guardian) instead of my Necro. Their mobility/defense was a real thrill to play…. being able to run between and through a group of 10 enemies (in WvW) almost effortlessly and surviving was unbelievable. But then I stopped to think… my guardian and my ele did extremely low damage because I threw everything I had so I could be a super tank/support. My mesmer did huge damage, but mainly to a single target and couldn’t catch a grandma with a cane. When I came back to Necro… it took me a while to re-adjust. Not only did I live almost as well as my other professions, but I dealt 100x more damage… in AoE (Krait Runes > Torment Runes it appears). After a few days I lived as well as my other professions and I wasn’t even specced to be a tank. Necro is not underpowered… it’s mainly people who play the profession wrong when coming to it from something else and expecting it to be the same xD

If the updates give us more life force generation through our weapon skills and utilities to give us more sustain (through deathshroud) … honestly.. I’ve seen nothing but buffs for my Necro xD

Edit: Oh god. Too bad it’s late… after reading page 2 I’m more than tempted to correct a few people.

MethaneGas.8357:

If the updates give us more life force generation through our weapon skills and utilities to give us more sustain (through deathshroud) … honestly.. I’ve seen nothing but buffs for my Necro xD

I hope that instead of buffing our LF generation they buff our siphon skills/traits.

The problem with DS in general is that it will extent your fights and allow you to stay in fights a long time but it doesnt give you sustain like healing does. No matter how good our LF generation is at some point we have to leave Ds.

I think apart from szepter and dagger offhand our weapons have enough LF generation. And giving us survivability though other means like siphons, protection boon, regneration boon, blinds, weakness etc. is a better than making DS our only defensive mechanism.

Honestly so glad Axe animations are being “tuned to be more fluid”. But you can’t really tune #1 animation to make it look fluid, because it just isn’t. Start over, because it’s just the clunkiest looking thing ever. Or add 3rd part to the chain.

Gonna take more then animations tuneing to swap out my lovely Dagger for the inferior Axe

So basically the necro is still gonna be the red headed stepchild for dungeons that no one really wants and everyone lets out a little sigh in front of their computer screen when one joins the group…..

Don’t expect any dungeon focused changes. The devs recently stated that dungeons are not something they like and they have no plans of working on dungeons anymore except for bug fixes if they pop up.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Don’t expect any dungeon focused changes. The devs recently stated that dungeons are not something they like and they have no plans of working on dungeons anymore except for bug fixes if they pop up.

I dont believe that, so a Link would be nice. Even if they think like that i doubt they would ever say something like that in our face.

Poplolita.2638:

What is redundant is people like you who keep suggesting mobility for necromancer when it was clearly stated by anet that it is against their philisophy. You might as well ask them to give us stealth while you’re at it.

http://awesomegifs.com/wp-content/uploads/dead-horse.gif

Dude they also said that pvp will always be only conquest and they’re revising that history now. Let’s face it, if that dead horse is ever gonna come back to life it will be on this subforum! :p

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

We don’t need mobility. Dark Path could use a tracking buff and Spectral Grasp could use a reliability change, but we really don’t need mobility.

I wonder if it is enough. I mean you could still dodge dark path and deny so any chances of chasing for the necromancer (we are supposed to hard to get away from). While i also dont think that necromancer need mobility skills that work without targets, having some reliable gap closers would be nice, especially for mainhand dagger. Personally i would change dark pact to be something like teleport (or a leap for more counterplay) to your target and immobilize it for 2 seconds but it would need a target to work. Something similar to the teleport of the guardian one-hand sword. I think comparing things to guardians is the most reasonable since they also not supposed to have good mobility.

But as you said our defensives are, at the moment, more important.

Muchacho.2390:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

We don’t need mobility. Dark Path could use a tracking buff and Spectral Grasp could use a reliability change, but we really don’t need mobility.

I wonder if it is enough. I mean you could still dodge dark path and deny so any chances of chasing for the necromancer (we are supposed to hard to get away from). While i also dont think that necromancer need mobility skills that work without targets, having some reliable gap closers would be nice, especially for mainhand dagger. Personally i would change dark pact to be something like teleport (or a leap for more counterplay) to your target and immobilize it for 2 seconds but it would need a target to work. Something similar to the teleport of the guardian one-hand sword. I think comparing things to guardians is the most reasonable since they also not supposed to have good mobility.

But as you said our defensives are, at the moment, more important.

I really don’t see that as necessary. I never have problems closing on a target even without a gap closer.

Also that skill you described is essentially the mesmer sword #3 skill.

Roe.3679:

Muchacho.2390:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

We don’t need mobility. Dark Path could use a tracking buff and Spectral Grasp could use a reliability change, but we really don’t need mobility.

I wonder if it is enough. I mean you could still dodge dark path and deny so any chances of chasing for the necromancer (we are supposed to hard to get away from). While i also dont think that necromancer need mobility skills that work without targets, having some reliable gap closers would be nice, especially for mainhand dagger. Personally i would change dark pact to be something like teleport (or a leap for more counterplay) to your target and immobilize it for 2 seconds but it would need a target to work. Something similar to the teleport of the guardian one-hand sword. I think comparing things to guardians is the most reasonable since they also not supposed to have good mobility.

But as you said our defensives are, at the moment, more important.

I really don’t see that as necessary. I never have problems closing on a target even without a gap closer.

Also that skill you described is essentially the mesmer sword #3 skill.

Yeah it isnt necessary and i also dont expect any major change in that direction but netherless it would be nice.

Please let me dream a little bit…

Muchacho.2390:

I dont believe that, so a Link would be nice. Even if they think like that i doubt they would ever say something like that in our face.

The actual statement was that they are currently not working on any big changes to dungeons themselves (think the big rework that Aetherpath was, essentially a brand new path for a dungeon), just the small ones they’ve been doing recently. So basically don’t expect a brand new dungeon/path or any large reworks. This is because frankly dungeons aren’t really in line with the core themes the game promotes (doing community events out in the open world with friends and strangers alike).

Muchacho.2390:

Roe.3679:

Muchacho.2390:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

We don’t need mobility. Dark Path could use a tracking buff and Spectral Grasp could use a reliability change, but we really don’t need mobility.

I wonder if it is enough. I mean you could still dodge dark path and deny so any chances of chasing for the necromancer (we are supposed to hard to get away from). While i also dont think that necromancer need mobility skills that work without targets, having some reliable gap closers would be nice, especially for mainhand dagger. Personally i would change dark pact to be something like teleport (or a leap for more counterplay) to your target and immobilize it for 2 seconds but it would need a target to work. Something similar to the teleport of the guardian one-hand sword. I think comparing things to guardians is the most reasonable since they also not supposed to have good mobility.

But as you said our defensives are, at the moment, more important.

I really don’t see that as necessary. I never have problems closing on a target even without a gap closer.

Also that skill you described is essentially the mesmer sword #3 skill.

Yeah it isnt necessary and i also dont expect any major change in that direction but netherless it would be nice.

Please let me dream a little bit…

I’ll admit, I am trying to push the idea of tempering expectations so we don’t get people having bad reactions to what could be a solid patch for us. I’m expecting good things.

Just not mobility or vigor.

Roe.3679:

Muchacho.2390:

Roe.3679:

Muchacho.2390:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

We don’t need mobility. Dark Path could use a tracking buff and Spectral Grasp could use a reliability change, but we really don’t need mobility.

I wonder if it is enough. I mean you could still dodge dark path and deny so any chances of chasing for the necromancer (we are supposed to hard to get away from). While i also dont think that necromancer need mobility skills that work without targets, having some reliable gap closers would be nice, especially for mainhand dagger. Personally i would change dark pact to be something like teleport (or a leap for more counterplay) to your target and immobilize it for 2 seconds but it would need a target to work. Something similar to the teleport of the guardian one-hand sword. I think comparing things to guardians is the most reasonable since they also not supposed to have good mobility.

But as you said our defensives are, at the moment, more important.

I really don’t see that as necessary. I never have problems closing on a target even without a gap closer.

Also that skill you described is essentially the mesmer sword #3 skill.

Yeah it isnt necessary and i also dont expect any major change in that direction but netherless it would be nice.

Please let me dream a little bit…

I’ll admit, I am trying to push the idea of tempering expectations so we don’t get people having bad reactions to what could be a solid patch for us. I’m expecting good things.

Just not mobility or vigor.

Vigor is such an underrated boon IMO. Necro’s need it least of all, easy vigor access would be OP……

That being said if mesmers are getting freaking TORMENT on auto-attacks anything is fair game

I hope axe #2 is changed so it isnt the most obvious animation in the game.

Axe needs more damage or faster attack speed on 1, or a 3rd hit, I don’t know. It’s just so weak that it’s not even worth using, Ever.
Axe 2 is good-ish but needs shorter CD
Axe 3 is fine

Focus 2 could use a shorter cast time, 1sec, so it wouldn’t hurt dagger-main so much when cast.

Signet of Undeath is horrible. There’s literally zero situation in where you’ll use this, and I’ve never used it before nor felt like I needed it.
Signet of Locust active needs buffs

Flumek.9043:

whered you come with qickening thirst? traveler is pretty much best rune for us , even arguably better for 1v1 as the nightmare pony is a 1x shot 90s CD, while traveler makes kiting possible

you don’t need traveler runes the signet works too also (what i prefer) use runes of the pack with spectral mastery and 30 into death magic that gives you perma swiftness + the power you lose from not going into spite in made up from the 25 grandmaster. heres a link to the build i use if its easier to understand
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQBJYcbifhS6XIAaXoCTqHjsIYB-TFBPgAgK/AU/pZ/hXlgAA-w

Glov.5342:

Signet of Undeath is horrible. There’s literally zero situation in where you’ll use this, and I’ve never used it before nor felt like I needed it.
Signet of Locust active needs buffs

the signet is useful to banner the lord in wvw at downed keeps and towers
they also use to shorter casts but anet made them longer however i agree they should reduce the cast time in pve

also since im making a post
what they need to do is improve death shroud’s interaction with the game such as

• healing
• interaction
• ui improvement

still will do kitten dmg in pve and be avoided like the plague

our damage output is similar to a warriors damage output here one of nemisis video showing this the damage difference is very little
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Toyhtj0HPU8&list=UUch1FHsuRgkBJkp5o2g2mmw
we also have an advantage of being able to range our target
also keep in mind warrior gs is also getting a damage nerf
the real problem is people think our damage sucks and also we have no group support

To be honest, if they give my Axe a power boost or LF generation boost, I guess that my tpvp build will be even bigger powerhouse and hardly beatable 1v1…

It’s not even mobility im concerned with. It’s sustained fighting and keeping your enemy from resetting / leaving the fight. Our main job is to stay in the fight and keep the enemy in the fight too. As it is now, any class can disengage from a fight against a necromancer and other classes have better tools to keep in a fight with a feeling enemy. This is just a bogus deal.

The way they set up some of the other professions leaps / non-target teleports makes them far more versatile not only for chasing but for evading and leaving a fight entirely.

In comparison, we are like old 70-year-old grandmothers who are like “eye get back here you youngsters and you’re super speed” when trying to catch somebody. When trying to flee we’re like “eye you wouldn’t hurt and elderly old cripple would you?”

Thieves, Warriors, Mesmers, Engineers, Elementalists all have superior chase mechanics and disengage mechanics than we do. This is just bogus.

However! This is not to say we can’t chase or disengage. What I’m saying is when you compare our traits and skills used in real play they are inferior to other classes when it comes to mobility overall. One of the main reasons it’s so hard for us to keep up isn’t because we lack so many cripples / chill or things like pulls, its that combines with high mobility that includes non target teleports and leaps they also have the best soft removals that will generally include removing things like cripple, immobilize, and chill. They give us these tools to stay in a fight, to keep our enemy in a fight, but then give them everything they need to counter our attempts.

Another major difference is our class’ skills are comprised almost entirely of target based mechanics. We need to be/see in range of an enemy to use something to do our soft cc or chase them. This is incredibly difficult when most classes in the game counter that without requiring a specific build to do so. Many of these counters like stealth are just built in the class like its almost difficult to not have these mechanics available.

Actually I find it easier to escape than to chase especially in WvW. My escapes include swiftness from either sw or wh5, using ds5 for area immobilize or staff 5 / spectral wall to fear, dark path a mob, and whatever else I can use. This is still extremely difficult and is no where near the simplistic warriors gs leaps while removing cc effects lol and especially nowhere near stealth (offered to thieves, mesmers, engineers and rangers.)

I’m not entirely sure what we need to be honest. Our class is based on restrictions while others are based on what they can actually do. Engineers main theme is to have everything. The very theme of our class is about what we can’t do. Warriors are meant to engage, disengage, deal high damage, have high def, etc, guardians are pretty much the same as warriors instead they heal more than they are mobile, thieves cant be seen, mesmer can’t be seen or even need to show themselves to kill you, elementalists can build the glassiest zerker build in the game and tank more than a guard, rangers can aa you from 20 miles away. Necromancers have bad mobility, have sub par aoe, have handicapped minions, no boons to speak of, no real utility, no major game-breaking mechanics aside from maybe fear (has the most counters of any cc), we cant stomp or res as well as other classes, but we do have health.

I’m not trying to be a complete downer lol. Reading over what i type sometimes I know it sounds that way but I’m saying I think our profession needs a close look at what it’s issues are and I think they are more to do with the foundation of the design.

Faster, more, and more consistent gap closers would help. Undead mobs in Orr seem to have better.

We all understand that Necromancer has poor combat mobility by design but that is to commit the player to combat. Another closer and better reliability cannot be that far from the design intent. I do not expect mobility CC, just a bit more static cling.

Tadsoul.6951:

our damage output is similar to a warriors damage output here one of nemisis video showing this the damage difference is very little
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Toyhtj0HPU8&list=UUch1FHsuRgkBJkp5o2g2mmw
we also have an advantage of being able to range our target
also keep in mind warrior gs is also getting a damage nerf
the real problem is people think our damage sucks and also we have no group support

Nemesis’ videos on things like this were just… well wrong. DnT did a very large spreadsheet on all the PvE meta builds with the DPS they provide under various group buffs, and Necromancer is mid-tier DPS. Quite a bit below DPS warrior, about tied with a more support focused build (EA I think?) and above PS I believe. However those warrior builds that aren’t full DPS also bring far far more support than we could ever dream of.

Bhawb, is nemesis realy that far off in this one? i mean:

1) he makes builds for pugs. most poeple seeking builds are beginers/mediumer at a class and as such I had no problem recomending a new friend his channel

2) he is against exploits , skip or wall shenanigans. he plays it right

3) The diferences , beside trash mobs without a cleave , were very small. Like 10% min/max. To me, thats as close as balance can go + i cant think of some1 complaining it 44s instead of 40s to kill a boss

4) He said that most others used very “ideal” situations. I know wariors scaling goes through the roof, but what he showed seemed like the most common, normal conditions youd expect

I dont play much PvE , i get it that spojs double dagger mainhand deals more dps. But if his easier to play, ranged dps comes close to 90% dps of that full melee build, then i would recommend nemesis build to 90% of the community.

Yes, frankly he is quite far off. This DPS spreadsheet shows the numbers, and its by very trusted members of the community.

1) Pugs aren’t this magical land where everything is awful and people are all running dire gear. Most pugs I am in manage to maintain good might stacks, kill bosses relatively quickly, rarely ever wipe, etc. As long as every player involved knows what to do for the dungeon (or just plays follow the leader), are running meta builds (which generally aren’t hard to play either), and you don’t end up in like a 5 ranger group, the assumptions people use aren’t that crazy. Especially when you consider a single ele with the right build can maintain 21 stacks of might on the group, or a PS GS warrior which maintains the full 25, its not a crazy feat to hit the “ideal” situations in most dungeons. Especially if you are like me and just play that build yourself, in which case every dungeon group you ever have will have max might and fury.

2) Playing it “right” is an argument I won’t delve into too much, but essentially if you aren’t maxing out your DPS through every reasonable mechanic possible that’s on you. Its like refusing to re-bind your keys or some other nonsense. If he doesn’t want to run the dungeon as efficiently as possible that is his choice, he can take 1 hour doing something I’ll do in 10 minutes, and we’ll both be happy.

3) If you look at the linked chart, you’ll see Necromancers start off with sub 7k damage, then if you look through the various levels of buffs, the warriors hover around 2k DPS more than Necros in DPS builds. Meaning about a 20% difference in DPS across the board in DPS builds, while still bringing team support that will boost their allies’ DPS.

4) Its not “very ideal” to have a warrior that presses the button that drops banners, a ranger that summons a spirit and gets in combat, and one ele or warrior that provides 100% of the entire party’s might. Basically as long as you have one person that runs a might stacking build (which are very common) your “ideal scenario” is reality in the majority of dungeons.

The fact is Warrior DPS > Necromancer DPS in DPS builds, by a very noticeable amount, plus they bring team support in their most selfish builds. Hell, even Guang, famous for his “guangmaths” that people now use jokingly, knows that Necromancers just don’t compare DPS wise.

Nemesis has always taken a very biased stance. Refusing to use certain tactics and keep an open mind. Obvious bias leads to incorrect conclusions. He doesnt play anymore so we dont have to deal with his shenanigans.

Scepter needs better animations!

Rym.1469:

To be honest, if they give my Axe a power boost or LF generation boost, I guess that my tpvp build will be even bigger powerhouse and hardly beatable 1v1…

This.

The build that I’ve used for forever was designed specifically to counter the fact that necromancers always get focused and yet still be able to kill my opponents. My attack (~1800) being on the low side means I take a little longer to kill my opponents (unless I use Lich Form, which is why I have it in every build – for burst) but any buff to axe other than the auto attack might make axe too good. It’s a ranged power weapon without projectiles.

Shinya.2598:

Scepter needs better animations!

I agree with this. Scepter #1 and #2 chain should shoot out red orbs and scepter #3 chain should be a green orb. They should then become 20% physical projectile finishers which adds counterplay and is a buff and nerf in one.

Zefrost.3425:

Shinya.2598:

Scepter needs better animations!

I agree with this. Scepter #1 and #2 chain should shoot out red orbs and scepter #3 chain should be a green orb. They should then become 20% physical projectile finishers which adds counterplay and is a buff and nerf in one.

As much as scepter needing animations is an issue, making scepter have orbs is going to give it the same issue as every other projectile in the game in that it will now be sidesteppable. Only if they were super fast in travel and/or homing like life blast would it be reasonable without expecting a massive drop in dps.

Scepter does not need projectiles. That’s part of why it’s quite good: it ignores projectile-hate.