Everyone knows that after 5 stacks chill no longer continues “growing” but isntead shorter duration chills get replaced by the new one being applied.
The problem this generates is that damaging chill applied by you get replaced but other stacks.
I think that a good way to solve this problem is by capping the duration that we can apply at one time but not the conditon itself. Not sure how clear I was but my point is that after a certain point the duration no longer grows but the stack number does limiting this way the duration of chill that can affect an enemy at one time and at the same time not punish you for the kind of build you are running.
Please leave your opinion below
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Chill Problem
Theres some common misunderstandings about how chill stacking works. Its actually quite easy to maintain dps chill in a group due to how it actually works.
Chill caps at 5 stacks. Any stacks applied after this will not apply. Already applied stacks never get replaced, they have to run out before a new stack can be applied. As long as you have 1 stack owned by you active on the mob you will continue to tick chill damage. So as long as you make sure you are maintaining long duration chills you should never lose chill procs. If chill drops off and people spam chills and cap it then it may take a while for you to get your procs in again. But otherwise it shouldnt be much of a problem.
Basically make sure the high condi damage deathly chill reaper always chills first and you shouldnt have much of an issue.
(edited by spoj.9672)
Theres some common misunderstandings about how chill stacking works. Its actually quite easy to maintain dps chill in a group due to how it actually works.
Chill caps at 5 stacks. Any stacks applied after this will not apply. Already applied stacks never get replaced, they have to run out before a new stack can be applied. As long as you have 1 stack owned by you active on the mob you will continue to tick chill damage. So as long as you make sure you are maintaining long duration chills you should never lose chill procs. If chill drops off and people spam chills and cap it then it may take a while for you to get your procs in again. But otherwise it shouldnt be much of a problem.
Basically make sure the high condi damage deathly chill reaper always chills first and you shouldnt have much of an issue.
My bad, from what I read on the wiki trivia new chill replaced the old one, so thank you.
Still wouldn’t you agree this isnt the best situation for chill builds?
Basically make sure the high condi damage deathly chill reaper always chills first and you shouldnt have much of an issue.
“Just make sure you’re the first person to chill the target. "
But if you’re not the first person to chill the target, you’re screwed until the other person’s stacks drop.
Oh yeah, that’s totally not a problem then… /sarcasm
No you are only screwed if they apply chill first and cap it at 5 before you can contribute. Theres not many situations where that should happen.
Theres some common misunderstandings about how chill stacking works. Its actually quite easy to maintain dps chill in a group due to how it actually works.
Chill caps at 5 stacks. Any stacks applied after this will not apply. Already applied stacks never get replaced, they have to run out before a new stack can be applied. As long as you have 1 stack owned by you active on the mob you will continue to tick chill damage. So as long as you make sure you are maintaining long duration chills you should never lose chill procs. If chill drops off and people spam chills and cap it then it may take a while for you to get your procs in again. But otherwise it shouldnt be much of a problem.
Basically make sure the high condi damage deathly chill reaper always chills first and you shouldnt have much of an issue.
Having a hard time understanding what you are saying, because I am almost certain it isn’t correct.
For example one, If I chill a target for 3 seconds, and then someone else chills a target right after me for 3 seconds, my chill will only tick for 3 seconds, no matter if I apply new chills or not. Subsequently if someone else chills the target, and I chill it IMMEDATELY after him, I have to wait for his chill to wear off before mine does any damage.
This has always been the way it works…. the system doesn’t look at condition damage, it doesn’t have any priority system at all other then order applied first in first out.
To your comment, if five necros had a 3 second chill on the target all applied at the same time, the target would have a 15 second chill, but only one of those necros would ever tick damage at any point in time, not all 5 ticking constantly.
And of course this makes sense, because there is no reason why if I was the 5th necro to apply a chill that I should see damage for 15 seconds… I only chilled for 3 so only see my damage for 3 seconds.
And these type of instanced conditions without stacks have always pushed off oldest when newest is applied. This was a lot easier to see back when bleed would cap at 25. You could use blood is power with a 60 second duration and watch your bleed get kicked off when the 25 cap was hit, and new instances of bleed were shoving off other bleeds until your super long blood is power bleed was kicked off too.
If what you say is true, it would be incredibly painful if your 4 second chill happen to hit when the mob had 5 instances of chill already.. it would just fizzle and do nothing, which is completely untrue. It applies the 4 second chill and kicks off the current ticking chill. If this didn’t happen it would be completely RNG if you got your chill on a mob constantly sitting at 5 instances of chill, which would be far worse.
You just raised an important aspect i forgot to test. So i will check that when i have time.
I only considered extremes because a deathly chill reaper is going to be investing in chill uptime. So they if they are chilling then they should always see chill damage so long as cap doesnt get reached. But as you just pointed out i may have had a flaw in my testing method and missed something. Thanks for bringing that up!
I would just like to point out though. I never had deathly chill downtime while playing reaper tank on Gorseval. And there were other chills going on during the fight.
@spoj, I’m confused as well. At first I thought chills get replaced or overwritten by incoming chills with longer duration. Then I did some testing back during BWE and came to the conclusion that no actual replacing of stacks seems to be going on. Then someone here on the forums pointed out to me that is not the case and that old chills indeed get replaced by incoming chills with longer duration. Now you seem to confirm the conclusion I drew from the bit of testing I did again.
So… how the kitten does this actually work? =P
They do not replace. That i am certain on. If chill is capped no additional chill will be applied. But traits like Bitter Chill will still proc regardless. Obviously the confusion is with Deathly Chill. Which i need to test further.
But for chill in general its simple. Each stack successfully applied cannot be replaced. Once you reach 5 stacks no new chills can be applied until the first stack runs its course.
You just raised an important aspect i forgot to test. So i will check that when i have time.
I only considered extremes because a deathly chill reaper is going to be investing in chill uptime. So they if they are chilling then they should always see chill damage so long as cap doesnt get reached. But as you just pointed out i may have had a flaw in my testing method and missed something. Thanks for bringing that up!
I would just like to point out though. I never had deathly chill downtime while playing reaper tank on Gorseval. And there were other chills going on during the fight.
How did you determine you had no downtime on chill damage? As far as I can tell this game still hides all relevant information away from the players. I did notice there is some windowed DPS meter third party deal now, but I can’t imagine you ran that during a raid. And unless you went frame by frame on a recording….
In either case it is easy enough to test… have 5 necros focus 5 a target, have a 6th necro focus 5 the same target 1 second later. If the timer on the debuff resets to full which happens every time a condition is “refreshed”, then you know it kicked one off to make room. The first necro who hit the target would lose his condition ticks.
Every time I have ever cast a chill on a target, that timer has reset to full (even in big groups)… the duration that tool tip reads is dependent on the other instances of chill, but I have never seen it just ignore my cast and continue ticking down.
However, after thinking about this a few weeks ago I determined a raid is never going to take more than 1 to 2 people who are going to be using chill for the purposes of break-bar and damage, and so it shouldn’t really be a problem, as long as there is no whirling in a chill field, or other applications of poor short duration chills by non condi necros.
That said, the condition should have another way of being triggered where there is no risk of losing the damage. Because if I am right, someone can have their chill pushed off… and if you are right, someone can have their chill completely ignored. Considering this is now the ONLY condition that works this way, I don’t think it will be changed anytime soon.
It doesn’t kick off stacks. But as for damage im unsure how that works because if i start it doesn’t stop ticking until chill runs out or I completely stop applying. I need to test it further. 2 necros is enough to test.
Combat log shows condis now. You have been away too long.
It doesn’t kick off stacks. But as for damage im unsure how that works because if i start it doesn’t stop ticking until chill runs out or I completely stop applying. I need to test it further. 2 necros is enough to test.
Combat log shows condis now. You have been away too long.
If someone applies chill before/in between your chill, you won’t be doing any damage.
Some testing.
It doesn’t kick off stacks. But as for damage im unsure how that works because if i start it doesn’t stop ticking until chill runs out or I completely stop applying. I need to test it further. 2 necros is enough to test.
Combat log shows condis now. You have been away too long.
I will admit defeat on the kicking off stacks. Tested it and it does not kick off stacks at 5 as you mentioned. It holds in memory the last 4 people to chill and the current chill and ignores all incoming chills of any duration from any source.
I can’t say this makes me feel any better though. You essentially don’t want anyone else chilling in the raid otherwise you might run the risk of a chill going off and having no effect… and since there is no push, any chill someone other than a condi necro casts that sticks is going to create a locked period of time with no chill damage.
It is definitely a problem looking ahead for maximizing damage, but since I don’t think any raid group will be running a condi necro for “optimized” damage, I suppose it may not matter.
Yeah i tested it further. It switches between who ticks. And its kind of random when it does it. What it seems to do is swap when the oldest stack runs out. Even if the next few stacks are owned by the first player. So im not really sure whats going on with it.
But in actual gameplay you should see very little deathly chill downtime so long as noone is trying to stack chill intentionally. You can maintain it permanently if you hold the cap whenever other people apply a passive chill. Which isnt hard to do on a condi viper build.
Holding the cap isn’t really going to be a thing though, because you have no control over when the stack count is going to drop from 5 to 4. If it just so happens to occur right after your last chill proc, and then someone else sneaks in a 2 second chill, it will lock out your damage guaranteed for that 2 seconds, not to mention the cap preventing your chill from going on in the first place.
Point being maintaining 100% uptime would require people to just stay away from chill completely, which is a pretty silly design decision.
Yeah i tested it further. It switches between who ticks. And its kind of random when it does it. What it seems to do is swap when the oldest stack runs out. Even if the next few stacks are owned by the first player. So im not really sure whats going on with it.
But in actual gameplay you should see very little deathly chill downtime so long as noone is trying to stack chill intentionally. You can maintain it permanently if you hold the cap whenever other people apply a passive chill. Which isnt hard to do on a condi viper build.
Still the problem is that Chill damage is super underwhelming specially when you compare it to something like Burn, not only that but as you mention it requires a team effort for you too maintain that damage.
We really need this condition to stack like the rest to make us competitve with the rest of the condi builds.
As I mentioned before this skill might require a duration cap but it really needs to stack in damage to make it usefull.
I keep saying it doesnt require team effort. Everytime i tank with power reaper on it i have almost perma 600 chill ticks on gorseval. :P
In theory you can lose a lot of damage. But in my experience that rarely happens. Sure an improvement would be nice. But its not nearly as bad as most of you are making it out to be.
I keep saying it doesnt require team effort. Everytime i tank with power reaper on it i have almost perma 600 chill ticks on gorseval. :P
In theory you can lose a lot of damage. But in my experience that rarely happens. Sure an improvement would be nice. But its not nearly as bad as most of you are making it out to be.
The problem is still that every time I apply chill I feel as if its being thrown away, the rest of the conditions in game are allowed to stack making it rewarding to continue to apply it. This is clearly no te case with chill, no matter how much chill you apply it will not stack and the damage will be cosntant making my efforts go to waste. Compared to other condis like burn a 600 tick is nothing.
You bug testers are doing God’s work