Guild Wars 2

So I tried gearing up a reaper for condition damage and played around with this. It ticked for about 400 damage on mobs in Orr.

Even in a full conditionmancer setup, you would never attack with greatsword or use skills that apply chill over your corruptions.

In any power build it’d never be worth taking over the one that gives you attack speed in shroud.

So this GRANDMASTER trait isn’t ever worth taking if you play conditions, and it isn’t ever worth taking if you don’t play conditions, so what’s it for?

Tobias.8632:

So I tried gearing up a reaper for condition damage and played around with this. It ticked for about 400 damage on mobs in Orr.

Even in a full conditionmancer setup, you would never attack with greatsword or use skills that apply chill over your corruptions.

In any power build it’d never be worth taking over the one that gives you attack speed in shroud.

So this GRANDMASTER trait isn’t ever worth taking if you play conditions, and it isn’t ever worth taking if you don’t play conditions, so what’s it for?

It’s one more of the many hybrid traits/weapons this class is saddled with that has kept it in the garbage bin of PvE.

Developers really like these hybrid gimmicks despite having a game that heavily punishes hybrids by forcing you to gear for mainly one stat so you either gear condi or power but are never really optimal at both.

What’s more, hybrid weapons/traits tend to have lower coefficients both on the direct damage and condi application factor.

The trait has its uses, but needs some more power. Comparing it to terror damage wise, it deals lesser even when being under 50% then terror without any other conditions on the target. Now chill is a lot more common then fear, but the damage is not yet grandmaster worthy.

Interesting enough, Reaper’s Onslaught boosted Reaper’s Shroud does less sustained damage than the dagger auto, and the same damage as the greatsword auto. Because of this, there are viable power builds that won’t be needing Reaper’s Onslaught.

It’s interesting because the chill has the same damage as old burning. But it suffers from the same problem as old burning… it does not stack. Reaper now is more of a bursty condi damage with fear, poison and burning on RS, it is quite strong. But chill cannot stack so it becomes a slow DOT.

So I indeed feel it is weak, but I don’t think increasing its coefficient will make it better. It is the whole mechanics which needs to be changed. I think, what reaper needs is a reaper-specific-chill, which stacks in intensity or as some suggested change the trait so that instead of stacking chill, you apply torment or confusion or whatever other intensity-stacking condition (and without iCD).

I’ve seen ticks of at least 800 hundred full condi geared, I expected around 800 but I used target the weak and lingering curses plus some might and vuln. So I think it needs a little more damage so it can become stand alone. What is more important is the condition of the increased damage. Unlike terror you can’t have it’s boosted damage up all the time (I mean an extra condition is not that difficult). Combine that with a long ramp up time for our conditions and a boost in kill speed when you’re foe is low health (you proc chill of death, you get some extra vuln and might,…) you won’t see that boosted damage a lot. So a change in the requirement (like 66%~75%) might be for the best.

Silverkey.2078:

It’s interesting because the chill has the same damage as old burning. But it suffers from the same problem as old burning… it does not stack. Reaper now is more of a bursty condi damage with fear, poison and burning on RS, it is quite strong. But chill cannot stack so it becomes a slow DOT.

So I indeed feel it is weak, but I don’t think increasing its coefficient will make it better. It is the whole mechanics which needs to be changed. I think, what reaper needs is a reaper-specific-chill, which stacks in intensity or as some suggested change the trait so that instead of stacking chill, you apply torment or confusion or whatever other intensity-stacking condition (and without iCD).

I feel that chill needs to remain a duration stack for the purpose of allowing it to have better uptime as a form of crowd control.

Rather then changing chill to work with this crappy trait, they need to completely remove this trait and replace it with something chill-themed that is actually good, like say, +40 % chill duration from all sources, sort of like that fear trait that gave increased duration. That bonus to chill uptime would be worthy of being a grandmaster.

If you bring chill oreintated runes (6 runes of ice) you can already permachill things with the autoattack.

Just delete the yet another attempt at shoving passive damage into the game and replace it with something more active and interesting.

Chill damage hits for about 800ish with full condi damage gear and some might/vuln. I didn’t get enough time to thoroughly test it, but I guess that with max might and vuln (quite easy with reaper on a medium+ fight), you should be able to get 850 damage ticks on targets below 50% HP.

That is about 30% stronger than 1 stack of burning. (So above 50% it would be roughly equal to burning).

I don’t think the skill is super weak. I mean if you compare it to bleeding, it’s equal to about 3-5 stacks of bleeding.
If the trait would have been: “Whenever you chill, you also apply 4 stacks of bleeding” people would be a lot more positive I think.

I think the trait is still a bit on the weak side, mostly because unlike burning/bleeding it can’t be stacked. But if they would buff deadly chill, it would without restriction become the strongest GM trait for a condi reaper by far.
Reaper’s Onslaught is nice, but currently it really only applies an 1 extra stack of burning with dhuumfire. And like I said, Chilling Death is already stronger (or roughly equal) to 1 stack of burning.
That’s not even mentioning that dhuumfire only works in shroud and chilling death works constantly.

Maybe a removal of the sub-50% restriction for it’s full damage would be a good thing to start with. This game is getting incredibly stacked with backloaded execute phases.

I still think the trait should turn chill into a intensity stacking condition (name it “Frost” or or sth.), that works like chill (actually, maybe removing the attackslow), counts as chill regarding reaper traits and other classes traits that remove/reduce movement impairing conditions, but , as said, is intensity instead of duration stacking. That would also hold the “balance” in itself already : good damage, but very low duration. (And as mentioned possibly only reducing MS).

Part of the problem is the chill cap. with a 5 stack limit your most reliable way of applying chill in a full condition setup is with RS 5+4 combo.

Unfortunately the chilling bolts you send out only apply like a 1s chill, but you send out 20-30 of them. with the 5 stack limit you are hitting the cap instantly but only getting 5s of chill.

I would suggest changing the cap to 10s of chill instead of a number of stacks, and add a “chill extended” to the GM trait that allows you to stack up to 20s of chill.

Then buff the scaling by another 40% and it might be worth taking.

I still think a better overall solution is to just change the trait to “apply 3s of burning whenever you chill a target” and rename it “Fire and Ice”.

You must not have been playing during the time when Dhuumfire was the dominant meta in PvP. Because this is basically that, but better. And for PvE, the extra damage from chill is just awesome. For me, its 500-900 because I’m boss like that. And thats just extra damage from a condition that I’m going to be using anyway.

I just took 11k chill damage in death log from a fellow cond reaper, while playing cond reaper myself. I wouldn’t just shrug off that damage, but I do admit that blighter’s boon’s sustain may trump it.

Targuil.3741:

I just took 11k chill damage in death log from a fellow cond reaper, while playing cond reaper myself. I wouldn’t just shrug off that damage, but I do admit that blighter’s boon’s sustain may trump it.

Meanwhile guardians GM traits and builds let you take 100k+ burn damage in the death log….

Even if it is ok for PvP, it is not good enough for PvE, where balance is just as important now that they’ve gone the raiding route.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Targuil.3741:

I just took 11k chill damage in death log from a fellow cond reaper, while playing cond reaper myself. I wouldn’t just shrug off that damage, but I do admit that blighter’s boon’s sustain may trump it.

Meanwhile guardians GM traits and builds let you take 100k+ burn damage in the death log….

Even if it is ok for PvP, it is not good enough for PvE, where balance is just as important now that they’ve gone the raiding route.

That’s 11k from a single trait on top of everything else. You can’t really compare that to a whole burn build.

If Deathly Chill did, say, 50-100% more damage but upfront (only once, on application), we could burst by using a string of chills. That would also fit risk/reward design pretty nicely by “burning” our soft CCs. EDIT: only issue is how to prevent excessive damage of RS4’s whirl finisher in RS5’s ice field.

I also don’t like the “increased damage below threshold” part. We have too many execute-like skills/traits. I would either prefer an invariant version, or the polar opposite: the more life a target has, the more you can suck out of it. That would synergize well with our (awfully telegraphed that leaves way too much room for counterplay) Executioner’s Scythe.

What do you think ?

Nyth.3492:

Chill damage hits for about 800ish with full condi damage gear and some might/vuln. I didn’t get enough time to thoroughly test it, but I guess that with max might and vuln (quite easy with reaper on a medium+ fight), you should be able to get 850 damage ticks on targets below 50% HP.

I got a tick for 934 in mostly exotic and some of it has celestial jewels.

I don’t think the skill is super weak. I mean if you compare it to bleeding, it’s equal to about 3-5 stacks of bleeding.
If the trait would have been: “Whenever you chill, you also apply 4 stacks of bleeding” people would be a lot more positive I think.

That’s becuase it would be ridiculous with epidemic . I could stack 20 extra bleeds with it.

Nyth.3492:

I think the trait is still a bit on the weak side, mostly because unlike burning/bleeding it can’t be stacked.

Well I think its on the weak side because to get your damage to a reasonable amount you have to invest in chill, precision for target the weak and slot lingering curses.

Maybe a removal of the sub-50% restriction for it’s full damage would be a good thing to start with. This game is getting incredibly stacked with backloaded execute phases.

I think removal is a bit extreme but certainly a relaxation to 66%~75% would be fine especially since unlike power conditions have a ramp up time (necromancer’s is incredibly long) and if you go spite you will spend so little time with the augmented damage.

Ara.4569:

If Deathly Chill did, say, 50-100% more damage but upfront (only once, on application), we could burst by using a string of chills. That would also fit risk/reward design pretty nicely by “burning” our soft CCs. EDIT: only issue is how to prevent excessive damage of RS4’s whirl finisher in RS5’s ice field.

I also don’t like the “increased damage below threshold” part. We have too many execute-like skills/traits. I would either prefer an invariant version, or the polar opposite: the more life a target has, the more you can suck out of it. That would synergize well with our (awfully telegraphed that leaves way too much room for counterplay) Executioner’s Scythe.

What do you think ?

Sigil of ice, chill nova and chill of death could proc for at least 3K. Frost aura will become broken (even though we don’t have much).

If they fix the break bar bug, and let chill stack to a duration cap instead of an application cap I think it would actually be ok in full ascended gear damage wise.

The biggest problem is that you just can’t stack it very well and it doesn’t even work on bosses at all.

Tim.6450:

Nyth.3492:

Chill damage hits for about 800ish with full condi damage gear and some might/vuln. I didn’t get enough time to thoroughly test it, but I guess that with max might and vuln (quite easy with reaper on a medium+ fight), you should be able to get 850 damage ticks on targets below 50% HP.

I got a tick for 934 in mostly exotic and some of it has celestial jewels.

Good to know. Like I said, i just experimented very shortly with it.

Tim.6450:

Nyth.3492:

I don’t think the skill is super weak. I mean if you compare it to bleeding, it’s equal to about 3-5 stacks of bleeding.
If the trait would have been: “Whenever you chill, you also apply 4 stacks of bleeding” people would be a lot more positive I think.

That’s becuase it would be ridiculous with epidemic . I could stack 20 extra bleeds with it.

I wasn’t suggesting to change it to bleed.
I was merely stating that people see “Chilling now deals X damage” as weak without taking a step back and realizing how much damage it really does. If the condition would have been that every chill application also stacks 5 stacks of bleeding people would have been more content, because it “feels” stronger even though it might not be (disregarding epidemic).

Fun note. Chilling Nova is good fun with Deadly Chill.
Fun note #2: So is Reaper of Grenth the human Elite skill.

Tim.6450:

Well I think its on the weak side because to get your damage to a reasonable amount you have to invest in chill, precision for target the weak and slot lingering curses.

Regardless. I think it could use a little more umph, purely because it’s a GM trait. I think the problem we have now is that the other reaper GM traits aren’t really all THAT strong either. So just buffing Deadly Chill would indirectly make the other 2 GM traits less attractive. (Granted DC is only interesting as condi reaper).

I think the trait should cause all chill inflicted by the player to also apply a condition called “frostbite” which stacks in intensity, and perhaps has another control effect.

Nyth.3492:

Tim.6450:

Nyth.3492:

Chill damage hits for about 800ish with full condi damage gear and some might/vuln. I didn’t get enough time to thoroughly test it, but I guess that with max might and vuln (quite easy with reaper on a medium+ fight), you should be able to get 850 damage ticks on targets below 50% HP.

I got a tick for 934 in mostly exotic and some of it has celestial jewels.

Good to know. Like I said, i just experimented very shortly with it.

Tim.6450:

Nyth.3492:

I don’t think the skill is super weak. I mean if you compare it to bleeding, it’s equal to about 3-5 stacks of bleeding.
If the trait would have been: “Whenever you chill, you also apply 4 stacks of bleeding” people would be a lot more positive I think.

That’s becuase it would be ridiculous with epidemic . I could stack 20 extra bleeds with it.

I wasn’t suggesting to change it to bleed.
I was merely stating that people see “Chilling now deals X damage” as weak without taking a step back and realizing how much damage it really does. If the condition would have been that every chill application also stacks 5 stacks of bleeding people would have been more content, because it “feels” stronger even though it might not be (disregarding epidemic).

Fun note. Chilling Nova is good fun with Deadly Chill.
Fun note #2: So is Reaper of Grenth the human Elite skill.

Tim.6450:

Well I think its on the weak side because to get your damage to a reasonable amount you have to invest in chill, precision for target the weak and slot lingering curses.

Regardless. I think it could use a little more umph, purely because it’s a GM trait. I think the problem we have now is that the other reaper GM traits aren’t really all THAT strong either. So just buffing Deadly Chill would indirectly make the other 2 GM traits less attractive. (Granted DC is only interesting as condi reaper).

It isn’t really comparable to a similar stack of bleeds. for instance:

1. Chill has a 5 stack limit. Bleed does not. If it applied 5 stacks of bleed but bleed capped at 5 you probably wouldn’t be that impressed

2. Chill stacks in duration not intensity. if it stacked 5 stacks of bleed it would be awesome because they would stack in intensity and you could do crazy damage (obvious too much). But it doesn’t. It stacks in duration, so it is more comparable to the old burn, which was not that great (hence why it was buffed so much)

3. Chill doesn’t work on bosses, bleed does, so again not comparable.

4. Professions don’t have “bleed duration reduction” traits, yet almost every profession has a trait to reduce chill duration by 50-66%.

5. Chill has a base duration of 1-2s in most applications. if you were applying 5 stacks of bleed for 2s people would also call that very weak. Most bleeds are 10-20s in duration. If we were applying 10-20s chills at this damage then it may be ok.

Combine all those things together and chill is currently just not worth it.

Its never going to do more damage than terror so thats something to bear in mind.

How about something along the lines of “When you strike a chilled target, inflict Torment (5 sec). If the foe is below 50%, inflict 2 stacks.” Then the trait supports intensity stacking and isn’t purely a 1v1 kind of trait (numbers obviously subject to balancing)

If they insist on leaving it “Terror-style” (Chill causes damage over time, no intensity stacking) is to buff the damage to the point where it’s worthwhile despite the lack of intensity stacking. Something like 600+0.6CD (900+0.9CD when target<50% HP). That might be enough to make it worth it. It’s also more than Terror (currently 444+0.4CD), so they would need to buff Terror while they’re at it. It honestly needs the buff, as it’s currently not so good either, especially when it’s competing with Master of Corruption and Path of Corruption.

I think that’s not the best way to go about it. You’d still have the old problem of multiple Reapers not being able to stack their damaging chill (i.e. the problem they reworked the entire condition system to fix). Much better to go with a Bitter Chill style “Chilling a foe inflicts [damaging condition]”, with the condition type, number of stacks, and duration subject to balancing. Torment might be good, Reaper lost access to Tainted Shackles. Or Burning! (haha, fat chance)

It can even be a new effect (“frost”) which applies on top of chill, for the same duration but stacks in intensity! Making it an effect means you cannot cleanse it, but we cannot add tons of chill anyway. It would not be OP, but allow some small condition damage to be ticking despite cleanse.

(THIS IS MY OPINION)ok I started my game with mancer about a year and a couple of months ago and ohh boy do I regret it, in all seriousness whats the point of conditions when burning makes all others trash (confusion being good but not as good, and poison is only good on thief) and a waste of time.. whats the point of tickling your enemy with worthless conditions that don’t do jack s, people say that in wvw mancer is good in groups(but the same could be said of any class specially revenant+ele+guardian combo easily able to overpower 1 to 2 and sometimes to 3 zergs with overwhelming aegis, resistance and condi cleanse, even engineer is better at conditions) and epidemic got nerfed, everybody in zerg is spamming burning with ele with some back up resistance and cleanse making any slow ticking condition as useful as just standing there doing nothing, i remember chill when i first got my reaper going it used to do damage on chill now it stacks 3 bleed which is only a little useful at best but compared to others it is pretty mediocre , since it takes about 25 stacks of bleed for 5 seconds to do as much damage as 4 stacks of burning for the same amount of time, then people fall back on that reaper is bulky, well in my experience going bulk on reaper or mancer means sacrificing power(or something) for super slow ticking condi damage(or at best semi-good at best power), a lot of other classes one being a burning guardian or a perma-stealth thief(that knows what he is doing) would obliterate you before you even notice(in zergs the massive burn and stun aoe’s make bouncing conditions not that good since mancer casting is slow), then the cherry on the cake is that they made plague more worthless than it already was with plaguelands ,while plague was literally the only thing that could possibly help at running away from other op classes it got turned into plaguelands an aoe that would only work on a brainless monkey and still does less damage than a lot of other things. I honestly feel that to give mancer something worth, it would be to go back on the change on epidemic(specially the resistance change) or give a ranged burning aoe or something, the only way to go into acceptable dps with mancer as of now it seems that it is to attack something that doesn’t move in 10-15 seconds. as I’ve experienced the only way to at least be worth something with reaper means becoming a glass cannon something other classes don’t have to even consider.

Our necromantic power has just increased!

Vitali.5039:

Our necromantic power has just increased!

Is Thread Necromancy a problem in the Necromancer forum?

Can it even be a problem?

I was seriously confused when I started reading cuz I was like “Deathly Chill doesn’t work like this at all!” and then I looked at the date… >_<

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Vitali.5039:

Our necromantic power has just increased!

Is Thread Necromancy a problem in the Necromancer forum?

Can it even be a problem?

You know what I say when I see a year-old thread lifeless and neglected?

“Rise!”

Etterwyn.5263:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Vitali.5039:

Our necromantic power has just increased!

Is Thread Necromancy a problem in the Necromancer forum?

Can it even be a problem?

You know what I say when I see a year-old thread lifeless and neglected?

“Rise!”

And you know what i say when a dev closes the thread?

“No! I hand-raised that minion!”

Lahmia.2193:

Etterwyn.5263:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Vitali.5039:

Our necromantic power has just increased!

Is Thread Necromancy a problem in the Necromancer forum?

Can it even be a problem?

You know what I say when I see a year-old thread lifeless and neglected?

“Rise!”

And you know what i say when a dev closes the thread?

“No! I hand-raised that minion!”

“I wish these things had a warranty”

What’s with reviving this old as kitten thread? :/

Famine.7915:

What’s with reviving this old as kitten thread? :/

That’s what us necros do. Revive old dead things.

Lahmia.2193:

Famine.7915:

What’s with reviving this old as kitten thread? :/

That’s what us necros do. Revive old dead things.

Well I have to say…. You got me there.

+1