Guild Wars 2

I actually don’t know how scholar works in DS. There used to be a bug that counted you as zero health, but it’s been fixed for siphoned power at least, haven’t tested the runes that trigger on certain health percentages.

Targuil.3741:

Edited for correct values, its 39% not 77% as i first calculated.

Mammoth.1975:

But for total damage you have to factor the 30% extra power per second being applied, and the noncrit damage, plus I think the optimal DS build only has 40% base crit or so.

So (1*0.9*2.62+1*(1-0.9))/(1.3*0.6*2.47+1.3*(1-0.6)) = 1.005. Half a percent difference, very close. All the little extra stuff like 3% extra damage from target the weak over strength of undeath, base attack values and so forth is going to come into play. These are theoretical maximums of course, and we could talk all day about the relative virtues of range, maximum deathshroud uptimes, group compositions with and without fury, etc, etc. I just think it’s probably best if we establish the dps difference, if any, between dagger 1 and ds 1 in a vaccuum before we move ahead with the rest. That makes it easier to apply different situational modifiers to the results.

It would be quite interesting if our ranged option does more dps than our melee option.

Those equations seem to be quite correct after I corrected mine with taking noncrits into account but DS build, with 30/10/0/0/30 with full ascended berserker with ruby orbs has 47% base crit rate without any sigils or food buffs. It might actually be beneficial to go scholar with DS build as you might be able to maintain 90% easier.

Yeah Scholar would definately be better for the DS build. Although I think Scholar would also be good for the dagger build in most dungeons. If you know the mechanics you shouldnt really get knocked below 90% that often.

Mammoth.1975:

Sorry you’re right. And the 30/25 build has 55 (65 average with self fury uptime assuming flawless ds flashing) so the actual equation would be:

(1*0.97*2.62+(1*.03))/(1.3*0.65*2.47+(1.3*0.35)) = 1.01

A one whopping percentage as base value haha. At least we somewhat figured out where to start before applying other modifiers such as food and group buffs.

Mammoth.1975:

I actually don’t know how scholar works in DS. There used to be a bug that counted you as zero health, but it’s been fixed for siphoned power at least, haven’t tested the runes that trigger on certain health percentages.

DS health percentages are fully fixed. They work correctly with traits and runes. That means staying in DS while over 90% gives you the 10% bonus for the whole time in it.

Also I tested the lich again in CoE run. It does indeed take your weapon stats now. Result is huge damage boost to it: 180 power, 128 precision, 10% crit damage, 5% sigil of force, ability to get stacks and 15% damage from axe mastery. Not too shabby. It does definetly surpasses anything else for 30 seconds even though Might may not give it as big percentual boost as to others. Shame the statcaps still exist for lower levels.

Nice, glad that’s fixed. Good to know, thanks

There are too many variables for me to work out the fine details on the comparison. Stuff like TTW, do I assume 8%? How many might stacks does the DS build have on average? How much damage are the bleeds worth on each build?

It would be nice to know the final results but I don’t have the persistence, and some of them are highly variable in actual play too. It looks like ds1 has a slight edge on dagger1, but if all the variables fell in favour of one over the other, I could be off by a pretty significant margin. I’m ready to just estimate them at approximately the same nonetheless, with DS just edging out dagger. The most surprising thing was that adding a warrior with banner of discipline and FGJ doesn’t seem to significantly favour one build over the other, although the lifeblast build does gain a little bit more.

This is with both builds running runes of the scholar, and therefore assuming the DS build has close to 100% uptime on either DS1 or Axe2. If you’re not getting hit in melee range, you’re probably not getting hit at 600 range either. This doesn’t account for the odd hit that is cleaned up with your 6 skill, but then getting knocked out of DS doesn’t require you to spend 1-1.5s casting your 6 skill. That’s actually pretty significant if you’re having to, for example, use consume conditions on recharge, as it means you’re spending 5% of your time just healing, and that’s 5% less dps. Of course then you have potential party heals from someone else in the group, and so on and so forth.

Lifeblast with traits without deathmagic can maintain around 10 might and some vulnerability (around 6-10 on bosses) and double on normal mobs. Also one more noteworthy thing is that dagger build has room for spiteful talisman for quicker vulnerability burst from focus. For TTW 8% could be pretty average and good assumption.

have you guys already tested out what a MM build might bring to this? since mostly everything is single target, running 3 minions each, thats like 15minons, plus 5 players, around 20 doing dmg, would MM build do more dmg than straightup regular?

Bones.5762:

have you guys already tested out what a MM build might bring to this? since mostly everything is single target, running 3 minions each, thats like 15minons, plus 5 players, around 20 doing dmg, would MM build do more dmg than straightup regular?

I highly doubt minions would do any extra damage over the well+DS combo. I could see it possible if all of these are true: Minions survive the whole encounter (time wasted to recast them is way too high anyway, not to mention no dps while dead), the encounter lasts almost until wells would’ve come out of cooldown again and you’re fighting single target only. Also have to remember there is little room for minion damage trait in DS build. For dagger build I you could get it without much problems.