Guild Wars 2

Hey guys, I recently started playing an engineer and am surprised by how many blast finishers, projectile finishers and combo fields they have. This being said, the necro has almost none of those things as far as I know. Staff is the only combo I use (3 and than 4 to get weakness), but for the rest I’m really missing them.

On some other forum post I saw someone post an idea about spite grandmaster/master trait which makes wells fire fields and increased their dmg by 15%, which I really like as a power necro. How do u guys like it? And are them some hidden combos I might not be aware of?

Fire fields should never exist on necromancer for lore reasons.

That said, minions are basically the access of all our finishers, and our fields are generally wells, death nova, and some assorted others.

My proposed thing was a set of traits that augment our current skills, adding fields/finishers to them. Ice, dark, and poison fields, basically things that apply mainly debilitating conditions, would really help us out a lot on the attrition front. Making it trait based makes it so you can’t have it without giving up some other traits.

Personally i think some of our weapons should just get some finishers on them. But im also ok with buffing spiteful talisman and banshees wail to make reapers touch a projectile and warhorn skills blast finishers. Same with axe i guess, but i really think unholy feast should be a blast by default, the weapon is bad enough as it is.

Necro’s dont really need extra offensive skills/traits or whatever. Rather they should improve survivability a bit.

Well + staff 4 will blast area blindness. Unfortunately usually only power necro’s take wells. The only reliable blast for a necro is staff 4 and that is dependent on the enemy tripping it or you throwing it directly on them.

Axe 2 whirl? Axe 3 blast…. I know we wouldn’t get both but just one would be nice.

I feel like axe3 should definitely be a blast finisher. I mean – it certainly looks like it should be one.

Currently, if you want finishers, you play minionmaster. It’d be nice if we were given the option of finishers without being forced down one path.

HeadCrowned.6834:

Necro’s dont really need extra offensive skills/traits or whatever. Rather they should improve survivability a bit.

Combos wouldn’t improve our offense at all, all our fields would just apply conditions (only poison that deals damage) to debilitate the enemy.

Spoj The Second.7680:

Personally i think some of our weapons should just get some finishers on them. But im also ok with buffing spiteful talisman and banshees wail to make reapers touch a projectile and warhorn skills blast finishers. Same with axe i guess, but i really think unholy feast should be a blast by default, the weapon is bad enough as it is.

I think Axe could get finishers just as a base buff to its skills, since it is pretty much awful as is, although I don’t think finishers would change that. I’d rather see an Axe rework over that.

The other weapons though I think are well balanced as is, and there should be new traits introduced (or if a trait is a big weak, like I think the warhorn trait is) then it can be added there. For example they could have a trait that makes Life Siphon drop an Ice Field and Dark Path turns into a leap finisher. Another trait could add certain fields onto each staff mark (make staff an actual good support weapon? GASP). And you could have one that augments scepter 2 to leave a field, epidemic to blast, enfeebling blood to blast, enfeeble to blast, etc. There are a lot of skills that I think are otherwise balanced, and so can’t have a base buff added, but have the ability to be traited to do so. Fields/finishers are a major part of what makes MM an attrition build, and I think ANet needs to realize that, and just like with MM, open up traits that can allow that play.

Bhawb.7408:

I think Axe could get finishers just as a base buff to its skills, since it is pretty much awful as is, although I don’t think finishers would change that. I’d rather see an Axe rework over that.

The other weapons though I think are well balanced as is

The staff AA needs a change I think though.

Id prefer a blast finisher on dager#5 weakening shroud, as the other weapons would still suck anyway and combined with the weakening shroud trait, it would disturb the natural flow of combat

Bhawb.7408:

HeadCrowned.6834:

Necro’s dont really need extra offensive skills/traits or whatever. Rather they should improve survivability a bit.

Combos wouldn’t improve our offense at all, all our fields would just apply conditions (only poison that deals damage) to debilitate the enemy.

Spoj The Second.7680:

Personally i think some of our weapons should just get some finishers on them. But im also ok with buffing spiteful talisman and banshees wail to make reapers touch a projectile and warhorn skills blast finishers. Same with axe i guess, but i really think unholy feast should be a blast by default, the weapon is bad enough as it is.

I think Axe could get finishers just as a base buff to its skills, since it is pretty much awful as is, although I don’t think finishers would change that. I’d rather see an Axe rework over that.

The other weapons though I think are well balanced as is, and there should be new traits introduced (or if a trait is a big weak, like I think the warhorn trait is) then it can be added there. For example they could have a trait that makes Life Siphon drop an Ice Field and Dark Path turns into a leap finisher. Another trait could add certain fields onto each staff mark (make staff an actual good support weapon? GASP). And you could have one that augments scepter 2 to leave a field, epidemic to blast, enfeebling blood to blast, enfeeble to blast, etc. There are a lot of skills that I think are otherwise balanced, and so can’t have a base buff added, but have the ability to be traited to do so. Fields/finishers are a major part of what makes MM an attrition build, and I think ANet needs to realize that, and just like with MM, open up traits that can allow that play.

The war horn trait is one of the best traits! (When u use war horn that is) is makes #5 a 15 second swiftness with 15 ticks and more lf regen and more cripple with only a 24 sec cooldown so almost perma swiftness (9 sec not) and #4 a 3 sec daze!

Im using the warhorn at the moment, but I think #4 isn’t a really good skill. Might changing back to focus… but then I don’t have the swiftness from warhorn #5 anymore. Dilemma!

Staff 3—5 should be blast finishers. Staff 2 would be nice as well, but I think its cooldown is a little short to warrant it.

DS 1 should be at least a 20% projectile finisher

WoB should be a water field instead of light, since it is supposed to be blood after all.

As far as current combos, I like to toss staff 4 & SW in spvp. Fear+prot+chaos armor = confused and desperate opponent.

Holl.3109:

The war horn trait is one of the best traits! (When u use war horn that is) is makes #5 a 15 second swiftness with 15 ticks and more lf regen and more cripple with only a 24 sec cooldown so almost perma swiftness (9 sec not) and #4 a 3 sec daze!

Its a good trait, but it is currently bugged so it doesn’t pulse 15 times, and I also don’t think that adding a blast to 4 would make it too strong.

Sors Immani.8429:

Staff 3—5 should be blast finishers. Staff 2 would be nice as well, but I think its cooldown is a little short to warrant it.

DS 1 should be at least a 20% projectile finisher

WoB should be a water field instead of light, since it is supposed to be blood after all.

That would be far too strong as a base change to skills.

Actually Necomancer has a ton of combo finishers, but they are mostly all on minions with long cooldowns or Underwater weapons.

Its like the GW design team thought this would be enough but it’s just not.

Axe 3, Warhorn 4 could use combo finishers.

We are godly underwater with minions.

@Bhawb I respect your opinion on this as I’ve sought out your posts on several occasions for advice in the past, so could you please elaborate? I can understand staff mark blast finishers being a little strong but not the others.

A LB projectile that when traited functions the same as Staff 1 is too strong?

Changing the field from light to water on Well of Blood is a little steep of a change, admittedly, since it’s supposedly one of the strongest heals in the game but a lot of people complain about the necro’s group utility capabilities. This would help solve that issue by granting a (traited) targeted water field that grants (traited) toughness as well.

Again, with all respect, please elaborate on why it would be “too strong of a change”.

Sors Immani.8429:

@Bhawb I respect your opinion on this as I’ve sought out your posts on several occasions for advice in the past, so could you please elaborate? I can understand staff mark blast finishers being a little strong but not the others.

A LB projectile that when traited functions the same as Staff 1 is too strong?

Changing the field from light to water on Well of Blood is a little steep of a change, admittedly, since it’s supposedly one of the strongest heals in the game but a lot of people complain about the necro’s group utility capabilities. This would help solve that issue by granting a (traited) targeted water field that grants (traited) toughness as well.

Again, with all respect, please elaborate on why it would be “too strong of a change”.

Easy to explain:
Chillblains self combo would be bonkers and in general 3 blast finishers on one weapon, even if they rely on enemies to proc is broken (not to even think about wvwvw potential). Like 14s of ice armor or 9 might in a pop or chain aoe blinds with wells.

Life blast could be a 100% finisher, doesnt matter, non factor

WoB would, if a water field, be officially the most bonkers healing skill, having a 5.4 healing power ratio and a 10 second room for additional 1k heals and 0.2 additional scaling.

Sors Immani.8429:

Staff 3—5 should be blast finishers. Staff 2 would be nice as well, but I think its cooldown is a little short to warrant it.

DS 1 should be at least a 20% projectile finisher

WoB should be a water field instead of light, since it is supposed to be blood after all.

As far as current combos, I like to toss staff 4 & SW in spvp. Fear+prot+chaos armor = confused and desperate opponent.

+1 (but what is SW?)

@Andele— the implication on mark finishers is that the field would be left after the blast, or that the blast would occur on “detonation” (however you want to look at it), so no self-combo on Chillblains.

Additionally, I was under the impression that all provided suggestions are given on the assumption that there would be associated buffs, nerfs, implementation times, et al, involved as well to promote balance. The WoB water field would require its healing power coefficient revised, obviously.

Could you please explain what you mean by LB projectile finishers being a non-factor? It could allow 2 stacks of burning to be applied (Dhuumfire + fire field), could heal + remove conditions (Renewing Blast + light field), or any other various combinations, given the talents that exist for it. If nothing else, one of the existing traits such as Unyielding Blast or Reaper’s Might could turn LB into a projectile finisher.

@Holl— SW=Spectral Wall. It creates an ethereal field in addition to its normal effects.

Sors Immani.8429:

@Bhawb I respect your opinion on this as I’ve sought out your posts on several occasions for advice in the past, so could you please elaborate? I can understand staff mark blast finishers being a little strong but not the others.

A LB projectile that when traited functions the same as Staff 1 is too strong?

Changing the field from light to water on Well of Blood is a little steep of a change, admittedly, since it’s supposedly one of the strongest heals in the game but a lot of people complain about the necro’s group utility capabilities. This would help solve that issue by granting a (traited) targeted water field that grants (traited) toughness as well.

Again, with all respect, please elaborate on why it would be “too strong of a change”.

A 20% chance on LB to finish just isn’t much of a change, imo. I thought you meant just a 100% projectile finisher, which at a 1s CD is actually really strong because of how prevalent fields are in group content. Think of it this way, if DS had a permanent 1s burning per auto, that’d be considered a massive buff (it’d literally be stronger than Dhuumfire), or if it had any of the other projectile finisher skills attached to it. Because essentially that is what would happen in team-fight cases, the skill would be constantly proccing pretty strong of buffs. As a trait? Sure, I’d probably say its balanceable, but as a flat buff it would be compensated with pretty severe nerfs to its damage (that we don’t want).

Same with staff. The marks all being blast finishers would end up basically leaving each of the skills as non-existent uses outside of finishing, because of the accompanying nerfs. Again, as a trait this could be possible, maybe a Master Death Magic trait (have them, as you said, blast THEN drop a combo field would be an easy way to avoid self finishing).

In Well of Blood’s case, it is already the single highest healing and highest scaling AoE heal in the game, bar none. It has a massive ratio, and with high healing power can heal quite a few builds for more than their own healing skill. Now in group content, allowing that to be a water field on top would make it insanely strong. My minion build, for example, would heal me for 6769 on WoB activation, then 8404 over the 11 pulses, plus 1455 for the Water rune proc, plus 3252 for each bone minion explosion. Meaning a total healing of 19880 healing (my entire HP bar) and 13111 in an AoE. That is absolutely crazy, and would result in big nerfs to WoB in some way.

In these cases, the issue is that you are proposing buffs to mainly good skills already, just maybe ones that are less common or who belong to builds that aren’t good for separate reasons (ex: WoB is strong in support/healing builds, but those builds aren’t viable, not because of WoB but because of other lacking things).

Traiting, however, is a separate thing, and could potentially introduce this, because the “cost” of the added power isn’t considered as part of the power of the skill itself, but the positioning of the trait. Essentially the issue isn’t necessarily that a base Necromancer is weak compared to another base profession, but that once you get into traiting, weapons, etc. other classes have so much better access to things than we do, and so a fully traiting other profession can bring much better and more needed things than we can. So Necromancer should be fixed not through a lot of base buffs (although some are needed in very specific spots like Axe), but through increased traiting, elite/utility skills, and weapon options.

Bhawb: I understand a good bit better, now. Thanks for the civilized and in-depth response!