Guild Wars 2

What does everyone think about Foot in the Grave and it’s usefulness?

Right now there is a thread in the balance forum on giving necros more stability (if you haven’t seen it: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/put-stability-on-locust-signet/first) and one of the things brought up in that 5 page thread is that we have stability on Foot in the Grave.

Personally I don’t find the trait impressive, knowing that we have to continuously flash DS and spec heavily for boon duration to have this theortical stability uptime. I know I already use DS defensively and offensively, so adding in another major reason to hit my DS cooldown makes it seem so that this powerful boon is used at the wrong times, and isnt there when I need it.

What does everyone else think? Does anyone feel that FITG helps their build and playstyle?

I found it useful only in SOAC tenderlys bunker build.

Now some x6xx6 condi build could use it, but its not soo good even 1v1. Teamfight theyll just wait 3s to burst u (with DS on CD now ) or thief strips stabilty 100% , mesmer 99% cz u dont have much boons anyway.

Power build cant afford the dmg loss against anything not thief, and the survival coupled with immobilizes isnt that big.

A big hindrance i see is you cant even get a full stomp off without boon duration, and ofc no natural stomping in DS.

Like ive said…well every were ds is not for every build and thise who dont spec towards it get little access to stability. And no one.goes

’Hey ima.play my necro today cause i want to.bounce around like a ping pong ball all day.
Its just another thing (in my opinion) that necros need, that we probably will never see.

I.would.much rather see sOl just get buffed and a new skill added for stability, but thats unlikely, giving sOl stability makes it worth choosing

(Thats stability on sig activation)

Ive had Foot in the grave on probably every build I had for powermancer since I learned how to ds stomp people, but the problem is that it only shines there and the most obvious occurence where its ok flipping into DS (when a thief throws up basilisk). In every other situation, It pretty much doesnt do much. If Im running away from someone, The stability from it doesnt stop people because Im knee deep in DS already at that point. There are multiple instances where I have lost fights just because I was CC damaged out of DS and then just chain CC’d even with 3 stunbreaks. many of my friends told me that ‘dodging’ is the key, but In those instances I usually already ran out of dodges.

So yeah, its a useful trait, but mostly just for one thing; stomping. Because of this, I will take it. But, once your DS burnt, even if you have high HP you can be dead in the water. If you are tanky as all get out, all it takes is a couple focus fire CC chains from slight of hand, hammers or even engie pulls and knockbacks and you are wondering if you signed up to be a guest star in the next iteration of Pinball for Windows 8. I understand that we are supposed to have a weakness, but being vulnerable 100% of the time to CC effects like chill and cripple and daze with the windup + CD times we have should be enough. Stability somewhere should be an option so that we have something that lets us actually keep the theme of aggression. Nothing really is aggressive about something that is both slow and can’t ’stand its ground (get it, guardian skill? cause reverse Guardian).

Anyway, my 2cents.

I really do not think anyone who plays necromancer regulary believes this trait is in a good spot or worth the investment. Loyo pretty much describes it perfectly. 6 Points in a traitline to be able to stomp people. -_-

I love this trait.

It doesn’t help me stomp the people I really need to make sure get stomped though (glass mesmer, thief, ele), and it doesn’t break stun, so it just becomes a happy coincidence when it actually manages to prevent a stun.

But like others have mentioned, we don’t get good boon coverage to really prevent it from being quickly removed, it is short duration, etc.

It would be much nicer if it was a stun break. People will say that is wildly OP, but I wouldn’t think it would be that insane considering what you give up to get it, especially in PVP.

pierwola.9602:

I love this trait.

Would you mind elaborating pierwola?

If they made it a stun break I would take it, and it would not be op. I tried it out the other night instead of deathly perception, but it was horribly unreliable.

Only use I can think of is for frontline necro in zerg. Works well there.
Or for stomping but not worth it imo.

Stun break would make it more useful in pvp but not wvw I would think.
If it was stun break it would be like the warrior new elite that gives extra 1000 toughness but I don’t know if that would be too strong for balance reasons cos we can stay in DS much longer and might mean they have to nerf DS.

Maybe its fine that we don’t have stability? I mean we have ways of transfering soft cc back to target. If we couldn’t do this then maybe we would have stability?

It really needs to break stun. I only take it because there’s no other choice and I don’t like to be a ping pong ball. Also, it’s only useful on power builds because condi builds have little reason to go that deep into soul reaping— a power build can at least make good use of the 2 other majors/3 minors well.

The trait is okay, I still think it could be a little better (the first time you use it will stunned it breaks the stun with a significant ICD), but its not awful. The issue is its our only good access to stability and its completely inaccessible except for semi-tanky power builds, and non Dhuumfire condi builds (who really can’t use it much anyway).

It has the same problem as many other necro things. On paper we have access to all kind of things but we have to invest 90% of our build to make our traits/skills be on par with other classes base value equivalents. Just look at Unholy sanctuary versus any other classes similar mechanic.

Actually I’ve been running a condibuild going 30 points in soul reaping.
- DS cooldown / spectral CD
- Fear duration
- soul marks

but ofc I dont see myself dropping either for the stability. Soul marks is pretty darn important for me to actually generate enough LF in a condi spec.

For a power based build, death perception wins the choice everytime. Near 100% critchance lifeblasts are just too good.

stability should last the duration of death shroud considering how far we have to trait for it. however, consider the fact that if you trait to reduce cooldown of deathshroud, your stability up time is 50% even if it does last three seconds. aka, avoiding the first 10 warriors attempts to stun you with a hammer. the other 30 do just fine with that though.

I use foot in the grave @ bugg DS stomping/ressing..

The trait actually isn’t that bad, it’s just buried too deep in the trait line to be worthwhile. For 30 points in soul reaping I would expect something more significant. Foot in the Grave would have to be made more accessible for me to consider investing in it – in fact, as a whole, necromancers just need better access to stability.

I posted this before to someone and I’ll post it again.

TL;DR:
The issue with necromancers isn’t Foot in the Grave or Near to Death. It’s lack of alternative options for other builds’ survivability.

Zefrost:

Maybe you have a point with Near to Death being the real build defining trait, instead of Near to Death, because that’s kind of true. But let’s say Foot in the Grave and Near to Death swapped places… then every necromancer would take it no matter what their build.

People claim it not to be worth 6 points into Soul Reaping because then they can’t take it without that totally messing with the build that they want (build that has everything like a warrior). Contrary to popular belief, increased life force, increased critical damage and spectral armor are really useful.

Technically, Near to Death being moved to grandmaster and Foot in the Grave to master would not affect any builds using those traits because they all go 6 into Soul Reaping anyway. However, then you make every build have to have 4 into Soul Reaping for stability to stay competitive even if it doesn’t synergize with anything in their build.

Okay, another scenario. Let’s say Near to Death was deleted entirely and Foot in The Grave remained where it is. Would that solve your issues as a necromancer? No, because Soul Reaping doesn’t fit your build.

Okay, let’s say the stability was buffed another 1 or 2 seconds to be 4 or 5 seconds long (which would never be done because then you could have almost permanent stability since higher numbers increase more with boon duration). Would that solve your issues as a necromancer? No, because Soul Reaping doesn’t fit your build.

Let’s say, every shroud dancing trait was buffed and Near to Death was deleted completely. Weakening Shroud became 5s of weakness, Spiteful Spirit became 5s of retaliation, Deathly Invigoration still sucked (lol), Shrouded Removal became 2 conditions removed, Foot in the Grave became 5s of stability and was even moved down to master tier for some reason. Does THAT solve your issues as a necromancer? No, that doesn’t fit your build… but you adapt and change it: Then you create the new dagger/dagger elementalist build in necromancer form which everyone has to take to stay competitive.

Is Near to Death really nerfing every trait so bad? Are 3s durations of boons/conditions/etc. really not good enough/bad? Of course not. The only trait that was even “nerfed” was Weakening Shroud and that is simply because arenanet doesn’t live on the same planet that we do. If you think Foot in the Grave is a bad trait and is only good for stomping, it’s because you haven’t hit the skillcap.

Moving Foot in the Grave to master will not solve any problems at all. If you aren’t taking Near to Death, then you aren’t building for traits like this and it doesn’t affect you whatsoever. It doesn’t affect your condition build that you can’t take FitG, it doesn’t affect your minion builds and it doesn’t affect your well builds – you aren’t building for it so this trait shouldn’t even be on your mind.

The only reason necromancers complain about FitG and Near to Death is because they get focused/CC’d to death and want ways to defend against it. That’s what necromancers need – build diversity. Alternative ways other than FitG to defend against focus fire and CC. It’s silly to attack Near to Death as holding necromancers back when it’s simply a different build type.

One alternative way to survive focus fire/CC that comes to mind, would be the Blood Magic tree if it didn’t suck. Or Holy Sanctuary if it didn’t suck. More access to protection would help as well. Ritual of Protection isn’t a very good trait itself.

+1 and I shouldn’t have to invest 6 trait points in to get a stomp (something everybody else can get), I should just be able to stomp.

It used to be ‘perm’ while in DS. It’s now SOO short, that 1 knockback totally counters it.
(Yes you can spend lots of your build getting it, and that guard your trying to stomp can totally counter it, without even having you targeted. Yet has many options to be immune to your fear with no trait cost.)

I think they assume/fear we are going to try to use it with the 30% DS recharge and maximized boon duration so they prenerfed it.

Problem with that approach is now it’s borderline worthless outside of min maxing it like that, and you’d give up a LOT just to do that.

Hmm I am not fond of it. It’s only handy for stomping with the DS stomp.

I think:

(a) it is a good trait
(b) it is too expensive and should be available at adept tier
(c ) it is located in the incorrect trait line – it should go into a line where both stats are useful to all build types – condi and power i.e., i use this on my power necro and both stats are useful to me – HOWEVER, if I put 6 points to get the trait on my condi build then 300 stat points are pretty much wasted on Ferocity. I would prefer the trait is moved to Death Magic or Blood Magic so the stats are more beneficial to my condi build.
(d) 3 seconds isn’t long enough

I know in WvW when I fight a small experienced group they always focus me first because I’m a necro. So I think given that ‘get the necro!’ attitude and our complete lack of escapes – we should be given ample and cheap stability instead of being perma stunned by hammer warriors and constantly on the back foot because of the focusing.

I hate this trait…
It is the reason necros will probably never get okish stability without investing in a trait tree only power necros want to go deep into.

So while it is not a bad trait, i wish we would get something else and stability on a utility skill…

Muchacho.2390:

I hate this trait…
It is the reason necros will probably never get okish stability without investing in a trait tree only power necros want to go deep into.

So while it is not a bad trait, i wish we would get something else and stability on a utility skill…

:-C I would love to see it deleted and made into a fairly large knockback when we go into ds… get them pesky warriors off us -.-

Foot in the Grave (Soul Reaping XI) is hampered by Near to Death (Soul Reaping VIII) and boon duration stacking, and heavy design issues.

First of all a GrandMaster Trait should define the build, while this is merely an utility that doesn’t define a kitten. It’s just a tool too much expensive to get to be that useful.
Somebody on the other thread stated that stability shouldn’t be too much accessible because it would then become mandatory and damage the build variety.
By the other side we can see what’s happening having FITG high on a talent tree with other competitor traits that are more appealing: the trait is mostly unused and can’t be included in meta builds, nor it shone so much to make some build using it a meta build.
Of course it needs more focus and experience to use it correctly but the problem isn’t the “Skillcap” issue.

The issue is this the wole trait system for the Necromancer has been made with haste, without any aim nor idea of what builds would come out.
It should promote build variety, it should accomodate to the playstyle of players, but the positioning of traits and their effects does the total opposite: forces players in the random builds that came out of this PRIMORDIAL SOUP.