Guild Wars 2

Do you guys feel like these two wells should be combined?

I personally like both of them, but only at the same time. They only convert one condition/boon at a time over the course of the 5 seconds they’re active. This behavior is much like that of the Mesmer Null Field (except it completely strips them and it can be extended for longer duration).

In my current build I’m testing WoP and it just seems very lacking to me. The rate at which conditions are applied, depending on the class your against, it just can’t keep up and inevitably becomes a useless utility to even have. The same can be said about WoC but I don’t use it much. Boons stack insanely fast for some professions (as we all know) so while it is easier for it to keep up with boons, it still ends up falling short and is negated by a single cleanse in most cases. To make it even worse, a good chunk of cleanses are on a way shorter CD or at the very least on par with it (even when traited for shorter CD).

The questions are, if they were to be combined into a single utility—what would we replace them with and would it be seen as overpowered? Keep in mind that this would go a long way for Well builds (imo anyway).

I think WoP is pure crap, it should remove all condys on you with the first pulse then 1 for each pulse after that because the cd is way too high to justify this poor skill.

WoC not much to say, no one is gonna stand in the well for the full duration for boons to be changed, im guessing if you plan on well bombing you use it more for the damage than boons to condys, again i feel it should convert all boons to condys with the first pulse then 1 after that for each pulse, the duration on these wells are so short and with high cds they are a bit underwhelming

With current implementation, id rather combine the effect of well of power into Well of Darkness (since corruption is kinda a offensive well it wouldnt make much sense to put a defensive well effect in it).

Andele.1306:

With current implementation, id rather combine the effect of well of power into Well of Darkness (since corruption is kinda a offensive well it wouldnt make much sense to put a defensive well effect in it).

Interesting idea.

Or just reduce the cooldowns so even though they are worse than null field, they can be used more frequently.

Any of these ideas are fine with me. I almost never run WoP for the reasons you have mentioned. It is the weakest well by far. If I use it to support a group, the other professions all have a lot more access to boons and have their own condition removal skills. If I use it on myself and minions…

Additionally, Using only wells, even for a well-spec, is too inflexible for a utility set so I always end up slotting a utility from another family.

Getting rid of WoP is ok by me.

Edit: I suppose WoP is meant as a replacement for CC for a Necro if WoB is used suggesting it may also be combined with WoB.

In GW1, Well of Power gave both health regen and energy regen. Obviously, that mechanic won’t work in GW2 where energy no longer exists. However, if we take the intent of the well (i.e. immediately grant multiple buffs to allies on use), we can apply it to GW2. Have the GW2 WoP apply boons immediately on use.

Since WoB already grants regen, it’s probably redundant to have WoP do the same. Perhaps instead, WoP grants either might, fury, vigor, or stability on use (or some combination of those; might + fury perhaps?). To balance it a bit, the boons it grants ramp up in either stacks or duration for each second allies remain inside the WoP’s perimeter. For example, applying one stack of might for 5 seconds with each pulse.

Then, keep the mechanic that continues to convert conditions to boons intact and I think we’d have a well that would have greater utility while better reflecting its namesake. It’s Well of Power, for Grenth’s sake; not Well of Slowly Converting Conditions to Boons at the Rate of One Per Second (WoSCCtBatRoOPS).

I think Well of Suffering and Well of Darkness are fine as-is. Well, not entirely true. I think the durations are too short and/or the recharges too long for all of the wells; but that’s a discussion for another time.

Back on topic:

Well of Corruption I agree is near useless for the “convert boons to conditions” mechanic; at least in PvP. It’s rare you’re going to get a real player to stay in a WoC long enough to maximize its corruption capabilities.

I like the suggestion above of converting all boons to conditions immediately on use and then continuing to corrupt one boon each second as per its current function. The insta-corruption would only apply to opponents caught within the well’s perimeter on casting; any enemies wandering into the well after it’s been cast would only suffer the “corrupt one boon per second” mechanic.

WoP combined with WoC wont ever happen… the result will be a skill much stronger than Null Field and i think we all can imagine where this will lead…

Having them convert all boons or all conditions at the first pulse would be great, but it wont happen either… Null Field was somewhat like that and it got nerfed. Also what use would corrupt boon be then since we could get a well to do the same job on a larger area?

I think reducing their cooldown is the best option…
Especially WoP and WoD should be brought down to 45 secs like the rest in my opinion.

Or perhaps if they could convert 2 boons/conditions on each pulse.

I guess if all wells were ground targeted by default and we got another trait in its place it would also help a lot…

In 1v1 situations most wells seem too weak, but if u manage to get 2 or 3 allies or enemies in a well then their usefullness is much clearer… how u are going to do that is another story though..

Enferian.2705:

[snip]

I guess if all wells were ground targeted by default and we got another trait in its place it would also help a lot…

What about a duration increase from 5 seconds to 10 seconds as a trait?

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

Enferian.2705:

[snip]

I guess if all wells were ground targeted by default and we got another trait in its place it would also help a lot…

What about a duration increase from 5 seconds to 10 seconds as a trait?

Would be too powerful.

Chesire.9043:

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

Enferian.2705:

[snip]

I guess if all wells were ground targeted by default and we got another trait in its place it would also help a lot…

What about a duration increase from 5 seconds to 10 seconds as a trait?

Would be too powerful.

In SPVP.. elsewhere it wouldn’t be an issue.

I agree that double duration would be too powerfull…
Especially in pvp (spvp and WvW) the 10 sec area denial alone would be too much.

i d rather they pulsed faster or did more with each pulse

Better pulse and lower cool down is the only way to go I suppose, after it’s all said and done.

I can see well of corruption being used again enemies trying to stomp your ally when they got stability or are trying to revive their teammate. Well of Power on the other hand is too much of a situational tool with a huge CD which makes it completely unappealing. I’ve been considering to take well of corruption instead of epidemic so I can have WOC and corrupt boon but haven’t done it yet. Could work if you combine them. WOC is really nice for keep at the forest for example. If you have both targetable WOC and WOS, those are a very good combination to use on stomping and ressing targets and small capture points.

WOP is situational, i only use it on guild nights when i know our group is gonna be tight and i can actually pull the conversion off.
Outside of that i use Corruption pretty much all the time along with suffering, it’s just keeping players inside the wells that seems to be the difficult part.

WoP seems best when used on the caster provided WoB is slotted, too, instead of Consume Conditions but Putrid Mark can manage conditions about as well, though under different conditions.

Still would not mind if WoB converted conditions to boons at 1 per second and WoP disappeared. Perhaps adding a dark dot or another spectral skill with protection or stability in its place.

Anchoku.8142:

WoP seems best when used on the caster provided WoB is slotted, too, instead of Consume Conditions but Putrid Mark can manage conditions about as well, though under different conditions.

Still would not mind if WoB converted conditions to boons at 1 per second and WoP disappeared. Perhaps adding a dark dot or another spectral skill with protection or stability in its place.

Think that would make WOB too strong… The only reason not to take it right now is mobility, CD, and lack of debuff removal. Give it debuff removal, and in addition to its big heal, that would be pretty amazing.

It would be like giving the blood fiend the ability to transfer conditions on its attack, also too strong IMO. Necros have lots of removal, not sure we would need more.

WOP is okay IMO, as long as the cooldown is reduced…. its useful in duels and such, but the CD is so long, you are going to get to use it once, and if you are covered in conditions, it isn’t going to save you. The flip all conditions on cast would be nice though, even if it was self only, but again…. still think we have enough removal as-is.

More skills hard to balance because of the stupid conquest only sPVP mode.

Everywhere else they are gimpy, or even more gimpy. One easy change might be to make the durations last longer, say 50% longer, in PVE and WvW.

Pendragon.8735:

More skills hard to balance because of the stupid conquest only sPVP mode.

Everywhere else they are gimpy, or even more gimpy. One easy change might be to make the durations last longer, say 50% longer, in PVE and WvW.

The only issue is they are still on the rather useless end in sPvP. Durations need to be around 35-40s mark instead of 45-60; even then they run the problem with being situational.

All wells have too long cooldowns.

I use WoP sometimes when soloing.
And sometimes even in WvW while zerging.

It turns Immobilize and Cripple into Swiftness, meaning I’m harder to pin down.
It allows me run past mobs that immobilize in Orr and TA, too.

It also turns Burning into Aegis, which can be very nice vs any mob spamming Burning or the floor in one of the fractals.

All in all though it could use a buff of some sort.
If you use off-hand dagger there’s rarely a reason to take the well.
…and in dungeons others are bound to have AoE condition removal anyway.

In sPvP you just don’t have the slots for it.

Well of Power in short:

U
S
E
L
E
S
S

Edit to add: At least Well of Corruption got some damage in it, even if little.

I don’t particularly like any of the wells because of the excessively long cool downs on them. Even traited they feel like the cool downs are still to long. Its also fairly obvious to me that Well of Blood was balanced around having the 20% trait. The cool down on that heal without the cool down reduction trait is just obscene.

Well of Power and Well of Darkness, for what they do, I really don’t feel these skills should have a 1 minute cool down. Well of Darkness especially. Thieves version, even if it is smaller in size, is so much more useful as its practically spammable. Yet their ability to spam it is somehow balanced? Why is ours on a 1 minute cool down? Their version also pulses a lot faster so you end up with twice the blinds on you. I’ll make the Well of Power comparison below in the Well of Corruption paragraph. Honestly, after looking at what Null Field does and all the traits that effect it, I’m seriously wondering what the hell happened during development.

Well of Suffering does decent damage, but the vulnerability it gives doesn’t last long enough, IMO. Compare the vulnerability duration on Spectral Wall and Axe auto attack. ANet needs to up the duration to match these other two skills. Like all wells, the cool down is to long.

Well of Corruption is honestly fine the way it is except for the cool down, until you compare it to Mesmer’s Null Field. Null Field is naturally targetable up to 1200 range, removes both boons from enemies as well as conditions from allies, has a base duration that is 2 seconds longer than Well of Corruption, all on a 30 second base cool down. This doesn’t even include the traits that can reduce Null Fields cool down by 20% (24 seconds), cause confusion for 5 seconds when you step into or out of the field, increase the duration of the field, or blind foes when you drop the field on top of them. Now I feel that Well of Corruption doesn’t do enough after looking at Null Field.

I’m not sure if this has been mentioned or not. Some people might not be aware of this. Well of Power converts condies into boons on the necro that casted it even if the necro is outside of the well. at least it works like this in PVE. Anyway WOP sucks lol.

As primarily a WvW player, I feel wells shine in one place and one place only. And that is zerg portal bombing, or where two sides commit to a clash on one point, either forced terrain, like in a lords room, or open field head on engage sort of like you see in setup GvG events. This is the only place they are really guaranteed to hit a lot of people who aren’t obviously aware to get out of them quickly.

But its just too situational for that to take up 4 of our utilities spots, and generally you are only going to get one use out of them in such a fight. So even if cooldowns were cut down by say 33%, wells would not get more powerful even in these ideal circumstances, because their prime effect would still be on the initial engage or clash, and they would not likely be relevant the same way 25 or 30 seconds later, just like they aren’t now at 45 or 60.

At their current cooldowns, they should last probably 8-10 seconds. However the whole idea of one-off fight style skills on a sustain/attrition class is kind of oxymoronic in the first place.

In sPVP they are good when for stomp/res moments.

Iceflame.5024:

In sPVP they are good when for stomp/res moments.

WoC, yes, you can throw it on a downed ally to strip/fear people trying to stability stomp, or throw it on a downed enemy to do the same to stability resurrects.

WoP will still let you be interrupted by fear before turning it into stability while you are trying to stomp/resurrect [if you are 100% clear of conditions other than fear at the time] and does nothing to stop dazes – as they aren’t considered a condition. Giving it a cooldown similar to well of blood might make it more attractive to me, but still probably not enough to give up a utility slot for.

Iceflame.5024:

I can see well of corruption being used again enemies trying to stomp your ally when they got stability or are trying to revive their teammate. Well of Power on the other hand is too much of a situational tool with a huge CD which makes it completely unappealing. I’ve been considering to take well of corruption instead of epidemic so I can have WOC and corrupt boon but haven’t done it yet. Could work if you combine them. WOC is really nice for keep at the forest for example. If you have both targetable WOC and WOS, those are a very good combination to use on stomping and ressing targets and small capture points.

I’m currently running WoC/corrupt boon, my first major concern was that in tpvp I’d still have to carry undeath as my third utility, so no stunbreaker to speak of.

So far things are actually not bad, I run 0/30/10/10/20 with nightmare runes/shaman amulet, so tanky but not total bunker. I haven’t missed the stunbreak all that much, most of the times I think I’d need it are times when it wouldn’t make much difference, like getting zerged by double burst class alone. Other than that the double corrupt is amazing.

Do it, don’t look back

I’ve been running WOS + WOC with focused rituals so I can target them. Now I switched focused rituals out for banshee wail and am running corrupt boon and epidemic. Been thinking to try running WOC and corrupt boon but am hesitating for now. I always take flesh wurm instead of rez signet cause I’m selfish. Don’t feel like ditching epi for now either cause I get some good moments with it.

I’ve been using WOP combined with ground targeted wells for a while now. It is a helpful aid to provide a bit of extra condition removal to my team, and it’s also handy in areas to make you basically immune to conditions for the duration of the well. But I wish it would last longer, and that it instantly removed all the conditions on first hit. And if an enemy stacks multiple stacks of one condition on me, it would be nice if the well gave you equal stacks of that opposite boon in return. And not only 1 stack.

WOC is absolutely worthless in my opinion. I rarely encounter any enemies in PVE that have boons at all that I want to corrupt. I rarely see foes with any boons. And the effect itself is too weak to dedicate one whole skill slot to. It’s too specific and situational. I’d like to see this skill changed so that it applies to a wider range of situations, and that it’s effect would be more noticeable in battle.

While playing condition well/support in WvW I use both WoP and WoC.

Both are fairly useful in small team and zerg fights “if” allies and enemies aren’t running all over the place in panic/adrenaline driven fight. The more organized two fighting sides are, the more useful wells become. The advantage of these two wells over Null Field isn’t the stripping of boons/conditions, but the conversion of them.

Well of Corruption can be an enemy group/zerg breaker pulsing 6 times, converting all boons to conditions on up to 5 enemies per tick. As a condition build, one well placed epidemic on a converted heavy boon class can cause even more serious problems for enemies.

Well of Power is the opposite in usefulness. When you and your group/zerg are targeted by lots of conditions, not only does it strip multiple salvos of conditions, but also converts those conditions into boons. Nothing like getting 10-20 seconds of protection, retaliation, regeneration, stacks of might etc. instead of being conditioned to death.

Combining WoB, WoP and WoC on a group of allies while a group of enemies charge in can pretty much blunt their attack. However, combining WoP and WoC into one skill would a) be overpowered and b) would wreck their utility at the same time. There are plenty of fights where I want WoP in one place and WoC in another.

Easier to say as a condition build though. Condition damage doesn’t come from utility slots, so its much easier to spec for utility wells as such. Well of Darkness and Well of Power should get their recharge times reduced though. All utility wells should be 45 second base cooldown (possibly 40 seconds).

WoP does have a few gimmicks, for example if you stand in a fire it will spam aegis on your team every seond [nice for the legendary shaman fight, jsut stand still for 5 seconds of block spam]. In pvp shortbow rangers can easily put 30+ seconds of vigor on you by spamming bleeding into the well at the speed of light, any permeating fire field becomes a safe haven.

Reversing a pulsing blind field to stack up fury is fun, too.

Just tweak the cool-downs. Anything else is too hard to balance.

As stated manny times, main problems with wells is that their effect are really poor compared to their duration/cd.
WoD is cool (vs melee attackers) but its cd is definitely too long, 60cd for an aoe blind that you can easily jump out of it.
WoP, to be effective it would require more ppl to stay inside it for all its duration…… nice a whole group packed into a spot ready to get smashed by an aoe storm; its effect is definitely too slow to be nearly good, and kitten ! its on 60cd too! why the kitten 90% of support skills has to be a total crap ?
WoC is the only possible second well paired with WoS, cause they are both good for dropping some aoe on a point. (and being offensive skills they have shorter cd lol ok, got it, they didnt want a game where ppl choose skills to play togheter)

Every well should be at 40s like WoB
WoP should be converting 2 conditions/sec
WoC should be converting 2 boons/sec
WoD effect is fine, just need cd tweak
WoS fine.