Guild Wars 2

Greetings Fellow Nercos

My guild and I are trying to complete the raid and we are have dps issues for the second and third stage. For the group I’m my teams Condi source along with two other people. I’m trying to max out my condi damage while why still also having health and running reaper. My current build is: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vREQNBmWD7kZTo5GscTw6GgeTsgLYxVxu4Yk6M0GiWQXtAwBA-TRSAABYoE8jLAAoq/4sSEZ0NImyLAeCAMt/QHHEASBsoyK-e
How can I max out my condi output while not losing survivability?

Vigil.8205:

Greetings Fellow Nercos

My guild and I are trying to complete the raid and we are have dps issues for the second and third stage. For the group I’m my teams Condi source along with two other people. I’m trying to max out my condi damage while why still also having health and running reaper. My current build is: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vREQNBmWD7kZTo5GscTw6GgeTsgLYxVxu4Yk6M0GiWQXtAwBA-TRSAABYoE8jLAAoq/4sSEZ0NImyLAeCAMt/QHHEASBsoyK-e
How can I max out my condi output while not losing survivability?

Are you the party tanker? Because you toughness is high, more than usual.
About your build you have some choices there that doesn’t add anything to you or your raid benefit.
This is the build i used today and we were successful on vale guardian kill, my average dps was 11~13k with spikes to 17k tops.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vREQNBLRD7kZTo6Gs5GwcTgDHsUMYTJtZQMIuHOETiRBgBQCA-TByXABzq+jeK/m7kAAw+ANuwwo6Fo7BAUjSwAAIAMxJOxJOxJWKAYmDA-e

So far survivability hasn’t really been an issue for me on Necro compared to other classes I tried raiding with. We have a high base health pool, Shroud, access to life-steals and since Scepter builds are doing the bulk of the work from a distance you can also sit at a relatively save range most of the time, which should make it even easier to survive. Try to make sure you stay close enough to still profit from group buffs, pay attention to the seekers, try to not stand on top of your tank and you should be fine.

If dps really is the issue with your group, you might want to think about switching to more offensive gear. I don’t know if this will be helpful to you, but this is what I’m currently testing for raids: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAr4dnM0AV3gN3AmbCs3gFjBb6oFDeBx7wh4RM6nFAOAA-TByBQBLU9HrZDg0U+hl1HAwJBYf6FY2DA4MKBJFwiKrA-e

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNArYWnMbCN2gN3AG1As3glgBLeIuEjiUVhtwvKKBEAiAA-TxyBABSoEUalIA8EAKfhBFMBx8pAoF9Bcpcyo9BeW9nuUSQKgFVWB-e

This is what I’ve been running, not the best by any means, but I haven’t had survival issues. I stand just close enough to AA with shroud 1. I’ve been the last man standing many times. The main way to survive is to just stay alert to your surroundings.

Run the curse line if your condi, the condi duration should help a lot with your dps.

Morgan.5170:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNArYWnMbCN2gN3AG1As3glgBLeIuEjiUVhtwvKKBEAiAA-TxyBABSoEUalIA8EAKfhBFMBx8pAoF9Bcpcyo9BeW9nuUSQKgFVWB-e

This is what I’ve been running, not the best by any means, but I haven’t had survival issues. I stand just close enough to AA with shroud 1. I’ve been the last man standing many times. The main way to survive is to just stay alert to your surroundings.

Run the curse line if your condi, the condi duration should help a lot with your dps.

A shroud build? How it turns out to be? I wanted to try one but used scepter build first.
You have any ideas on your consistent dps and spike dmg? Maybe you can save me sometime or make me want play it right now.

Just to add to Lynnie’s build, tiny modifications for slightly higher DPS. Same basic theory though. However Vipers gear is so god kitten expsensive that it’s a horrible pain to get. Use something cheaper if that’s an issue, like sinister or something. (But even that’s pretty expensive and time gated.)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vREQNBLRD7khGo5Gs6GwcTgDHsUMYTrgZQMIuHOETiRBgBQCA-TRyXABzq6jeK/m7kAAw+ANuwwoaFo7BA6AwTNgaUCGAABgJWiTciTsUAwssC-e

Rirgul.5302:

Just to add to Lynnie’s build, tiny modifications for slightly higher DPS. Same basic theory though. However Vipers gear is so god kitten expsensive that it’s a horrible pain to get. Use something cheaper if that’s an issue, like sinister or something. (But even that’s pretty expensive and time gated.)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vREQNBLRD7khGo5Gs6GwcTgDHsUMYTrgZQMIuHOETiRBgBQCA-TRyXABzq6jeK/m7kAAw+ANuwwoaFo7BA6AwTNgaUCGAABgJWiTciTsUAwssC-e

Interesting change on heal skill. I am just afraid they’ll die to some aoe when i most need the heal. I’ll definitely try this tomorrow.
About the gear cost … get rich of die trying (8) lol

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vREQNAW7YnMbCN3glbCW3A0biliBTqoN0Oax7whYSMKAMASAA-TxRAABzobADlgfcBAA4JAImyPm2fIU1fIFwkitA-e

If you are going condi try this. It has high toughness, and high condi damage. The added toughness from Corrupter’s Fervor increases your condi damage with undead runes as well as Krait Tuning Crystals.

Also I would consider using epidemic as well to take care of any annoying adds. I am not sure about the raids, but I was able to hit 12k/tick burn, 8k/tick bleed, as well as 2-3k poison in DS. Epidemic is awesome!

pdavis.8031:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vREQNAW7YnMbCN3glbCW3A0biliBTqoN0Oax7whYSMKAMASAA-TxRAABzobADlgfcBAA4JAImyPm2fIU1fIFwkitA-e

If you are going condi try this. It has high toughness, and high condi damage. The added toughness from Corrupter’s Fervor increases your condi damage with undead runes as well as Krait Tuning Crystals.

Also I would consider using epidemic as well to take care of any annoying adds. I am not sure about the raids, but I was able to hit 12k/tick burn, 8k/tick bleed, as well as 2-3k poison in DS. Epidemic is awesome!

12k burn + 8k bleed at same time? On your own?

for dps, this is what i use during raids.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vREQNBLRD7khGo5GscTw6GgDHsUMYTrgZQMIeHWETiRBgBQCA-TBSGAB5r+DAKBBW5XuPAAj2HY6FG09kAkueBSBAzyK-e

I do not have enough Nightmare Runes to test it yet. But it is better to have 4 Nightmares and 2 Trappers or 5 Nightmares and 1 Blackdiamond?

10% duration > 100 condi damage unless you are already hitting cap.

Try to max out condi duration. There’s a point where it doesn’t matter as much higher up, but I just found it easier to max it and not worry about the 20/30 damage you’re missing from getting to 100% vs a tiny amount of Condi Damage.

Also there is NO WAY. Necro can get 12k burns solo.

Group settings that is very possible with Soul Spiral in a Fire Field, Sun Spirit, +Condi Group Traits etc..

HoTM you can get 5k burns, which suggests around 7k in the outside world in optimum solo conditions where you have your own 25 might and Vuln. Although having had time to reflect although burning is a fun build, it’s really not all that competitive if you focus on it. It’s useful to turtle up in shroud with, but then you have to take soul reaping, which isn’t too great in group settings.

Altoid.9104:

10% duration > 100 condi damage unless you are already hitting cap.

Yup, but keep in mind, if you are using Sigil of Malice (10%), 5x Nightmare Runes (15%), 1x Black Diamond (0.6%), the Amulet you can get from the HoT-story achievements with Viper’s stats (4.7%) + Viper’s armor and weapons (21.6%) and good food (30%) you will sit at ~82% overall duration and push your Bleeds and Chills to the cap via traits. So you can very well sneak the 100 condi damage from the 5th Nightmare Rune in without lacking duration =)

Edit: If I’m not mistaken, this will net you ~50 condi damage and 25 power, at the cost of 4.7% overall condi duration (which is wasted on Bleeds and Chills) and 37 precision (~1.8% crit chance), so it isn’t really that big of a deal I think.

Toxic crystals are pushing 1g per use now, so best case scenario I could see that setup working but I’m not willing to dump potentially hundreds of gold into food to make it work long term.

Well, you can just gather/buy the materials and craft them yourself or ask a friend/guild member that can craft them if you don’t have the recipe unlocked. You will save ~20s per crystal that way.
Also I don’t think you always need use the best available food at all times. I feel right now it just is very important in raids, because people are still learning and figuring stuff out, which means you need all the help you can get if you want to be successful.

Lynnie.7213:

pdavis.8031:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vREQNAW7YnMbCN3glbCW3A0biliBTqoN0Oax7whYSMKAMASAA-TxRAABzobADlgfcBAA4JAImyPm2fIU1fIFwkitA-e

If you are going condi try this. It has high toughness, and high condi damage. The added toughness from Corrupter’s Fervor increases your condi damage with undead runes as well as Krait Tuning Crystals.

Also I would consider using epidemic as well to take care of any annoying adds. I am not sure about the raids, but I was able to hit 12k/tick burn, 8k/tick bleed, as well as 2-3k poison in DS. Epidemic is awesome!

12k burn + 8k bleed at same time? On your own?

Through Epidemic.
1. Target legendary/boss with tons of conditions on him.
2. Wait until adds get close.
4.Use epidemic.
5.All the conditions and stacks transfer to adds.
6. Watch them melt like butter in the microwave
7. ?
8. Profit.

Without epidemic I routinely get 3.5k-5k bleeds and a little less than half that with poison. Which isn’t bad just for myself. And that’s not including weapon damage, or damage from any minions I may have.

It may not be as good as power as far as damage numbers, but I enjoy it.

Long lasting conditions are more important in a fight like this then topping off your condition damage. I crafted a viper’s set by taking an existing ascended set and converting it via the mystic forge.

For dealing condition damage at range I would recommend something like this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRArY7dnc0AV3gd2AO3A0biFcBL+K+FHjQDgAwCIar1BGBA-TByXABzq+jeK/m7JAAwyDNuDAdnEgR1P8gSwAAHAB6GM+4jP+4j3uhulCQRlVA-e

That will give you close to 100% Bleeding and chill duration, and the relative difference in condition damage ticks between viper’s and rabid with undead runes is fairly small, especially if and when both builds are fully buffed (might banners and food) Also note that this build utilizes the spite trait line which allows for some automatic chill, automatic self-might, etc.

In terms of skill rotation, open with: 0,7,9,8,2,5,4,3: I.E. use your corruption skills, then transfer conditions to your foe to gain might, then use your most powerful 2 scepter skills, apply blind for an extra condition, then use your scepter skill to apply anywhere between 5-12 stacks of torment onto your foe depending on how long your conditions can stick.

Then autoattack in scepter, use 2,3,5 whenever they are off cooldown. Use your corruption skills whenever they are off cooldown but whatever you do, do not kill yourself with the conditions you apply to yourself. So do not apply self conditions unless your plague signet or consume conditions is off cooldown. (And also you can increase the effectiveness of your healing ability

Reaper with Dhuumfire seems to do a bit more damage then scepter attacks. Therefore if you are willing to play as a glassy hybrid and your party can fully buff and heal you, this will likely deal more damage, but of course it’s more risky.

Not my build btw

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRBLhtu1JzmQzNY1Ng5mA9mYxYwi3hDxjI1SIKUri+ZBgBAA-ThiHQB0T9ngs8AzM9wPleObHgadSAIn+BA8EAIoyAooEMAwBwu1tu1NY8xHf8xHvdDdLFgiKrA-e

The idea would be to put a poison field on your target, go into shroud, soul spiral for a short period of 30 stacks of poison, then autoattack for a combination of burning and power damage.

The ranged build also has the advantage of being able to go on lightning bomb [or green circle of death] duty without losing any effectiveness in terms of damage]

Why Chilled to the bone over Lich? Chill doesn’t do much unless you really want the CC on mobs while Lich gives you a good 10-15 stacks of bleeding that you can upkeep. I also don’t see the point of plague signet since dagger 4 is more than enough to get rid of the conditions that matter from Blood is Power. I prefer going blood over spite since the group synergy is good (also means more damage) but if you prefer spite then the extra 20% damage from Close to Death seems better than making your signets slightly better.

I also don’t agree with Dhuumfire build dealing more damage than scepter / dagger.

Altoid.9104:

Why Chilled to the bone over Lich? Chill doesn’t do much unless you really want the CC on mobs while Lich gives you a good 10-15 stacks of bleeding that you can upkeep. I also don’t see the point of plague signet since dagger 4 is more than enough to get rid of the conditions that matter from Blood is Power. I prefer going blood over spite since the group synergy is good (also means more damage) but if you prefer spite then the extra 20% damage from Close to Death seems better than making your signets slightly better.

I also don’t agree with Dhuumfire build dealing more damage than scepter / dagger.

I’ve never used Lich form for a condition build. The tooltip says you are summoning 5 jagged horrors which can each deal 10 seconds of bleeding on hit. I suppose the effectiveness would depend on how long you can keep the jagged horror’s alive. If they aren’t healed then your jagged horrors will be dead by the time your lichform cooldown is at 140s or so.

This might not be an issue in raids but the choice of plague signet was to serve both as a stun breaker and a method of removing the extra conditions from both the poison field and blood is power, also because signets can be used to generate might.

The scepter auto attack seemed weaker to me then dhuumfire but I’m willing to have my mind changed on that. At least if your condition duration is at 100%. Not that you would strictly autoattack in one or another.

In Vale / Gorseval my jagged horrors regularly survive into a second casting, they very rarely die before then. Just starting Sabetha but I imagine the trend will continue.

[edit] Decided to take this portion out, TLDR: I feel dhuumfire isn’t worth it but without meters it becomes harder to judge.

Never optimized my condi necro too much but will probably use for the last 2 bosses in raids. A few questions:

1) Normally condi duration is more important than condi dmg but if epidemic isn’t affected by the % duration of the necro, is it really worth it to max out duration instead of trying to get the biggest epidemic bursts? Would zerker runes/bursting sigil be better for stronger epidemic bursts? Similarly, more sinister instead of viper?

2) If there are multiple necros/other people in the group that chill, what do you take instead of Reaper? Is SR worth it for the shorter CD on lich form? Death magic extending the life of Jagged horrors as well as spawning minions when the adds die seems potentially more useful than what amounts to 2 burn stacks (that won’t always tick when other ppl chill) and 50% crit chance. Has anyone tried death nova on the 2nd and 3rd fight and do they proc when adds are killed?

3) Why don’t I see warhorn in the offhand for these builds? Swapping to on CD, not just for geomancy but for WH#5 to proc more bleed on crits seems worthwhile compared to scepter auto? Might as well trait WH too if other necros have VA? 20 sec CD on the CPC/BiP/D#4 is plenty of time to get to wh and back.

Could someone explain or direct me to an in-depth explanation of why Condi Reaper is a good choice?
I fail to understand why the Chill is so good (is the DoT high or?).

rogerwilko.6895:

Could someone explain or direct me to an in-depth explanation of why Condi Reaper is a good choice?
I fail to understand why the Chill is so good (is the DoT high or?).

Chill is “meh”, it will tick for 1k, but adds some cc.

(1). Epidemic uses your condi damage stat with the remaining duration and can be used to bounce the condi to Gorseval’s adds and the wall.

(2). Sinister and viper are hybrid stat sets and reaper has good synergies (i.e., decimate defenses) allowing great condi+power dps.

Greeting fellow Necros,

My guild mates and I are trying to clear the first raid boss at the current time and I have been tasked with improving our other necromancer’s dps. He is running a power necro build with zerks gear how could I help him improve his dps output. At the current time time he does not have reaper unlocked.
- Vigil

@ Vigil. I would begin by equipping curses line and soul reaping for two massive crit chance boosters – “target the weak” and “deathly perception”. With that he won’t need half of that zerk gear and will be able to swap it for valkyries – same power, same ferocity, but vitality instead of precision. A much needed survival boost, because worst kind of dps is the dead one.

Also i wouldn’t shy away from ignoring the miliscule damage gains in favour of real cc gains – unless your team has that covered. In my experience soling maguuma content with randoms, my necro’s cc is very real and meaningful. When flesh golem charges break bars take a massive hit, warhorn’s #4 daze is also massive, and fear is poison to break bar – it slowly, but steadily whittles it down, or at least prevents from recharging fast, giving massive time window to finish the job for other ppl. Without fear holding break bar back it would be much more difficult to break it for not too well organized groups such as the ones i was in.

I’m bit tired and not at my finest atm, but the brainpower i can muster atm tells me that there’s little that can be done for his power output and much that can be done for his consistency of outputting it and being useful to his team. /

Also don’t forget necro is the best reviver with blood magic’s “transfusion” grandmaster trait. He can literally pull downed ppl away from red circles of death right to his feet for fast and safe ress. That’s some invaluable dps uptime from those downed ppl that otherwise could’ve been lost or even cause a full wipe.

Unless you’re tanking I think you’re going to need to drop your survivability in some form, you really don’t need the amount of toughness and vitality you have on your gear. But if you’re unwilling to budge, the biggest and easiest change I think would be to drop spite for curses. Spite actually provides very little to condi builds because Close to Death (20% bonus damage below 50% hp) does NOT apply to condition damage, only direct damage. Outside of that spite only really provides some good self-boon and vulnerability, neither of which should be too necessary in a raid setting, since you should be getting a lot of might and vuln from other members.

With curses you can take master of corruption, which means you load yourself up with condis but you should take a dagger offhand to transfer them. The scepter trait is also very good, you can get 10k+ grasping deads properly geared for condi damage.

I’ve been playing with this build and am very pleased:
http://sickestguild.com/forum/m/31644179/viewthread/25151391-spirit-vale-condi-necro

The main thing to note is that CPC/BIP into Dagger 4 is a massively damaging combo. It takes time for its damage to apply, but you are a condition class.

TLDR: I would recommend changing your gear if you’re not tanking, I think necros can survive quite well in vipers, but if you won’t budge, changing spite to curses will do a lot for you without giving up a lick of your survivability. I’m not a fan of staff either, I’d probably just keep scepter/d /whatever your other choice of offhand is.

there are those who think condi nerco = crap :
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Condition-engineers-in-new-raid/first#post5777965
so where is the truth?

rogerwilko.6895:

there are those who think condi nerco = crap :
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Condition-engineers-in-new-raid/first#post5777965
so where is the truth?

The gulf between Engineer theoretical DPS and actual DPS is massive. You see a lot of claims of what they do but not a lot of actual data of what they actually do.

Maxzero.4032:

rogerwilko.6895:

there are those who think condi nerco = crap :
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Condition-engineers-in-new-raid/first#post5777965
so where is the truth?

The gulf between Engineer theoretical DPS and actual DPS is massive. You see a lot of claims of what they do but not a lot of actual data of what they actually do.

As someone who plays both condi Necro and condi Engi fairly regularly, can confirm that. Engi can get pretty insane if you achieve to play it as close to the optimum as possible, but it requires practice to get there. If you just picked up condi Engi, you probably wont do +20k dps (or whatever it is these days) from the get-go just by mashing your buttons.

If you have the choice between a capable Necro player and a kitteny Engineer player, take the Necro.

[Edit] If you are searching for a showcase of what proper epi abuse and a good build does, you might want to have a look at this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3uyisk/condition_reaper_crazy_damage_potential/

I’ve been running this and doing quite well, not doing the #1 spot in dps but definitely can hold my own in raids.

This is going to be one of the better examples of what an engineer is capable of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdYdHZ-bZuo

If you notice early on, the damage is really high and trumps what a condi necro can do in a similar situation pretty dramatically, but as the fight gets more mobile, you can see that DPS drop dramatically, to only a couple thousand or less in some parts of the fight (in those isolated circumstances). A scepter necro can basically keep up his rotation minimally affected by similar circumstances. The only DPS lost because of movement in this fight for a condi necro would be:
-Some poison cloud ticks
-If the boss exceeds 900+ range from lightning.
-The ability to whirl finish as reaper as often as you can normally due to lightning duty.

The long durations of your bleeds means you’ll drop that low much less frequently, if ever, playing properly.

I’d post some footage if I had some of myself, I promise I will when I get my new CPU and RAM.

TLDR: In a stationary situation, a engi will blow necros out of the water. But in any fight with a lot of movement and/or the ability to take advantage of epidemic, it’s going to be at least even, and perhaps necros blowing engis out of the water (but also synergizing with them because of epidemic).

So far, in the 3 encounters we’ve seen I think you can justify bringing a condi reaper to all of them. (Though I’m pretty confident Dom still does more damage than I do overall on VG, people spitting out BS numbers like “25% of what engis do” is clearly absurd.)

rogerwilko.6895:

Could someone explain or direct me to an in-depth explanation of why Condi Reaper is a good choice?
I fail to understand why the Chill is so good (is the DoT high or?).

Two things that make it staple are:

1. Soul Spiral (Shroud 4). Huge amount of Poison damage and can combo with Fire or Poison fields for even more condition damage.

2. Chill becoming a condition. It’s about 1-1.5k DPS which isn’t small. You can’t stack it like you can with other conditions but it’s strong enough that it trumps what a lot of other specialization lines offer.

Decimate Defense also gets you pretty much to Crit cap so you can get rid of as much precision as possible in favor of Condi Duration capping.

Other specialization lines offer very little to a condi build (Other than Curses obviously) so Reaper becomes somewhat default.

Mega Skeleton.8259:

This is going to be one of the better examples of what an engineer is capable of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdYdHZ-bZuo

If you notice early on, the damage is really high and trumps what a condi necro can do in a similar situation pretty dramatically, but as the fight gets more mobile, you can see that DPS drop dramatically, to only a couple thousand or less in some parts of the fight (in those isolated circumstances). A scepter necro can basically keep up his rotation minimally affected by similar circumstances. The only DPS lost because of movement in this fight for a condi necro would be:
-Some poison cloud ticks
-If the boss exceeds 900+ range from lightning.
-The ability to whirl finish as reaper as often as you can normally due to lightning duty.

The long durations of your bleeds means you’ll drop that low much less frequently, if ever, playing properly.

I’d post some footage if I had some of myself, I promise I will when I get my new CPU and RAM.

TLDR: In a stationary situation, a engi will blow necros out of the water. But in any fight with a lot of movement and/or the ability to take advantage of epidemic, it’s going to be at least even, and perhaps necros blowing engis out of the water (but also synergizing with them because of epidemic).

So far, in the 3 encounters we’ve seen I think you can justify bringing a condi reaper to all of them. (Though I’m pretty confident Dom still does more damage than I do overall on VG, people spitting out BS numbers like “25% of what engis do” is clearly absurd.)

good feedback.

I im beginning to think, as a few others have mentioned, that Condi reaper/engi/war together can bring the total highest dps in game. (with might stacks coming from somewhere) the amount of burn and bleeds, and then epidemic for trash, this can (should) be meta for fractals/raids