Guild Wars 2

I’m curious if anyone has tested (either actual or spreadsheet) the actual DPS loss from using Trailblazer’s gear vs Viper’s.

It seems to me that in a condi reaper build most of your damage comes from your conditions with only a small percentage coming from the direct damage of your skills and that using Trailblazer’s would be a HUGE survivability increase for a relatively small damage loss and I’m curious to know how much before I start crafting my gear.

The question is for what do you need survivability?

WvW? Than yes it is good.

I’m not entirely sure about the exact stats, but this is what I used for trailblazer:

1087 toughness (= major stat precision from marauder, couldn’t find major stat toughness)
579 vit (= minor stat vit from marauder)
1096 condi damage (=exotic viper)
38,6% condi duration (= exotic viper)

Your hp will go from 19212 to 25002, while the increase in toughness brings your armor from 1967 to 3054 (ascended gear). The 55% toughness increase equates to a damage reduction of (1-(1/1.55)), or about 36%, which together with the hp increase doubles your effective hp as a necro. The relative increase is a lot higher for low hp classes such as ele.

Exotic viper will give you 2067 power and 32.5% crit chance, which brings your effective power to 2401 (power x (1-crit%)+ power x crit dmg x crit%), which with 25 might stacks goes up to 3273, and up to 3550 with might and fury.

Trailblazer will give you none of that, which results in an effective base power of 1000, 1750 with might stacks, which is about 50% of viper’s power damage, and 1925 with might and fury. A lot depends on your crit% from traits here!

And of course, condi damage is basically the same as viper’s. For full exotic viper this is about 12% higher then ascended sinister which has only 65% condi duration from runes, sigils and food.

In conclusion, this estimate puts us at half the power damage, double the effective hp, identical condi damage.

SoyMilk.4260:

I’m curious if anyone has tested (either actual or spreadsheet) the actual DPS loss from using Trailblazer’s gear vs Viper’s.

It seems to me that in a condi reaper build most of your damage comes from your conditions with only a small percentage coming from the direct damage of your skills and that using Trailblazer’s would be a HUGE survivability increase for a relatively small damage loss and I’m curious to know how much before I start crafting my gear.

I only see a reason to use trailblazer in WvW. For pve viper is just better. Even if just a smal percentage of your damage comes from power its already a boost. Now imagine in raid a 8 minutes fight the dps boost can’t be comparead to trailblazer’s loss.

And if you play a dhummfire build then viper is the right choice, because Shroud 1 scales well of power.

Just throwing it out there since it seems to elude some people: Trailblazer’s could be pretty amazing for a tank with Viper-ish condi dps in raids, if aggro issues allow it.

Why power is always good to run: traited shroud will always bump your crit chance and scale with power.

Viper>other condi sets

Sheobix.8796:

Why power is always good to run: traited shroud will always bump your crit chance and scale with power.

Viper>other condi sets

Not always, only for hybrid dps. If you’re looking for tank builds with great condi dps, Trailblazer’s comes to mind.

Death perception is part of the answer. For hybrid dps, the two main options are traited shroud for dhuumfire hybrids +well-bursting or decimate defenses for a non-shroud build (also up to 50% + around 33% from viper gear + 20% from fury).

Edit:
My answer is also a very rough indication, but since I am Captain Obvious-ing here: basically you’ll want to use the sparsity principle to select your traits and press hard-hitting power and condi skills (reaper shroud 4 comes to mind), while adjusting your build to take the mechanics of the fight and your team comp into account. Nemesis loves hybrid buids, and he’s publishing some new ones soon. Lengthy and more accurate explanations will accompany them.

I’ve got a set of both viper and trailblazer I’ve been using on my reaper. For fractals, open world, and raid I’ve found it a lot better to use trailblazer.
The reason being is I stay in shroud much longer, which is where most of my dps comes from. The shroud1 AA does a small bit of damage when compared to the burning and poison ticks, and losing a lot of power did not seem to make much difference. I do use the power signet though to make up for it over having another pet, but it’s mostly because it’s a great dps bump when shroud drops it drops a pile of condis on the enemy in no time so you can pop back into shroud quick.

Demandred.7930:

Just throwing it out there since it seems to elude some people: Wanderer’s could be pretty amazing…

Demandred.7930:

Not always, only for hybrid dps. If you’re looking for tank builds with great condi dps, wanderer’s comes to mind.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wanderer%27s_Intricate_Gossamer_Insignia

Trailblazer’s*, not Wanderer’s thanks, edited. :p

I might start towards a set, I think you’d gain substantial survivability with not a massive tradeoff of DPS. I was having troubles staying alive facetanking VG with just blood magic + rise + jagged horrors (actually I was using FG for that, now that i think about it).

What’s a cool bonus about vitality for necros is that it increases your Life Force pool! (and therefore % based life force gains grant you more overall life force.)

Haven’t tested, but I would take trailblazer’s over viper’s every day. In my mind, making sure I stay alive is more important than eking out every last little bit of damage. I use dhuumfire btw. Since dhuumfire is based on staying in shroud, taking less damage and having more life force protects my actual dps.

Fenris Amarok.4052:

In my mind, making sure I stay alive is more important than eking out every last little bit of damage.

Absolutely Fenris, I’m planning to craft both and switch out pieces/tweak my build to a point where I feel comfortable. The dps from Trailblazer’s alone will probably be quite satisfactory.

Why has carrion fallen out of favor with these hybrid builds? is it just that viper is the new FOTM? with Viper you’re getting more power damage than condi, with how low the coefficients are for power damage why not emphasize condi. this would include sinister>viper as well since it also emphasizes condition damage.

Prophet.1584:

Why has carrion fallen out of favor with these hybrid builds? is it just that viper is the new FOTM? with Viper you’re getting more power damage than condi, with how low the coefficients are for power damage why not emphasize condi. this would include sinister>viper as well since it also emphasizes condition damage.

Duration is the strongest stat a condition build can get until you hit 100%.

Pandabro.8743:

Prophet.1584:

Why has carrion fallen out of favor with these hybrid builds? is it just that viper is the new FOTM? with Viper you’re getting more power damage than condi, with how low the coefficients are for power damage why not emphasize condi. this would include sinister>viper as well since it also emphasizes condition damage.

Duration is the strongest stat a condition build can get until you hit 100%.

doesn’t necro have several traits that increase duration? until HoT i mainly played my necro in pvp only so there are certainly things i don’t know. Reaper so far is just pure fun for me.

Only 20% to bleeds and chills, really. The scepter one is added to BASE duration, not towards the standard 100% cap (which is actually crazy good).

To get 80% more is a little more difficult. 30% via consumables, and 50% via gear/runes/sigils.

It should be worth noting that duration isn’t necessarily better if the mobs die quickly. It may well be possible that sinisters can still trump vipers in something like fractals trash. But yes, for most PvE calculations you can treat a 10% increase to duration as a 10% increase to condition DPS, since it will almost certainly tick its full duration over an 8 minute fight. :P

It also is worth noting that condi duration improves non-damaging condis, and to remember in PvP that duration may not be helpful if it gets cleansed before it comes into play. Just some considerations when gearing.

Mega Skeleton.8259:

Only 20% to bleeds and chills, really. The scepter one is added to BASE duration, not towards the standard 100% cap (which is actually crazy good).

To get 80% more is a little more difficult. 30% via consumables, and 50% via gear/runes/sigils.

It should be worth noting that duration isn’t necessarily better if the mobs die quickly. It may well be possible that sinisters can still trump vipers in something like fractals trash. But yes, for most PvE calculations you can treat a 10% increase to duration as a 10% increase to condition DPS, since it will almost certainly tick its full duration over an 8 minute fight. :P

It also is worth noting that condi duration improves non-damaging condis, and to remember in PvP that duration may not be helpful if it gets cleansed before it comes into play. Just some considerations when gearing.

Thanks, I appreciate all the information you put into that response. answered all my questions!