Guild Wars 2

I recently started playing GW 2 again and picked up my Necromancer and checked the forum for suggestions on what Gear to use if i want to go for Condition Damage and i came across ALOT of comments that said the Necromancer is broken and Condition Damage is not worth it in dungeons if you already have a class with DoTs and in big open World events you wont even deal any damage because the Bleed caps are full instantly.

I actually planned to do some dungeons and WvW because GW 2 was fun again after along time but after these comments i´m really bummed out.

And now i´m not sure,is it even worth playing as a Necromancer with DoTs or do i have to play the Power D/D build to even be usefull in dungeons?

It really depends on the circumstances. As far as necromancers go, they have their highest potential damage from conditions, due to how well they can spread them. Overall, I’d say play how you want and don’t worry too much about it, since there isn’t anything in the game that needs to you to run power. To get into specifics:

Dungeons: you won’t be well liked by elitists, but running a conditionmancer is fine for pugs and casuals. The only time you’ll really run into issues is when you have two or more condi builds in the same group, because then damage can start to drop off. If you have a dedicated group where you’re the only condi user, go nuts. Lately, I’m seeing few and fewer condi builds, so the chances of meeting up with another one in a pug are pretty low.

Overworld: the only time you’ll have a problem against champions and world bosses are the ones that are heavily zerged. Temple bosses, champ trains, dragon champions, the ones where there are 20 or so guys on one mob you’ll see an issue. But, in champions that aren’t fought in large groups, or areas with zergs of mobs themselves, condition builds are fine.

You’ll still do damage, since nearly all condition attacks have direct damage components, so getting credit isn’t an issue.

WvW: Conditions are pretty good here. In small scale fights (anything from 1 vs. 1 to 10 vs. 10), the AoE power from conditions and their pressure can do plenty of damage to other players. It is actually pretty good at doing damage. In zerg vs. zerg, sometimes a well formed enemy zerg will pack a cleansing, but a necro can easily maintain AoE condi pressure despite this.

Personally I just have multiple builds.

Well your comment is very useful to me.Thanks alot,i guess i will go for the build i had in mind after all.

Adding on to that, the last three dungeons I’ve run had three necros in the party, including myself. Each time, I was the only condition build in the party. Not only are fewer condition builds running around, but most of the necros aren’t using them anymore. Which is fine with me, since it just means I get to deal my full damage.

I personally feel that Tequatl is the main reason for this. People switched to power builds so they were actually useful against him and just never bothered going back.

I have builds for both power and hybrid/conditions. If no one else is playing conditions then i will switch to it. I feel it offers a lot of support(weakness, chill, regen, powerful aoe) and is less squishy than my beserker build. I havent done the math but it seems my hybrid/condition build isn’t too much weaker if not on par with my power build with damage. I think i might test that out today.

Heard the condi meta is gating nuked here in a week or so… Anyone know if that’s actually true? Please say it ain’t so!!

Not sure where you heard that. Only three condition removals have been announced as getting changed at all (one of which to actually remove fewer conditions, but reduce incoming duration some, another to remove conditions from allies as well as the user, but no additional on the user, and one on an otherwise useless ranger pet) and the only thing changing with conditions themselves are the scaling at lower levels, which won’t affect PvP at all.

Condi build wrecks in PvE. This guy has several different builds that are highly effective. I recommend him highly: http://www.youtube.com/user/Iamoneandiamlegion

I’m using his condi build and mobs just melt away. Since much of my activity is gathering and open world/LS content, it’s perfect for me.

Not to be taken as a “don’t go Conditions damage”; I was a condition Necro for the first thousand or so hours. My frustration with condition damage is that in many meaningful aspects of the game it is marginalized by the mechanics of the game.

Cleanses primary follow a LIFO system — Last in First Out — so your bleed or vulnerablity (ideally) will be cleansed first. (Relatively fine with this system, as it makes DPS condition covering a skill.)

Application follows a FIFO system (as far as we can tell), First in First Out, which means another players 2 sec 0 condition damage bleed on crit (that they can’t control) will remove my Blood is Power 42 sec 2100 condition damage bleed. (This for me is a huge concern because of clipping ~ a non-condition specced character that is forced to take the minor (IE. Barbed precision in Curses) can actually signicantly reduce your dps.)

WvW: I play on Tarnished Coast (so Tier 1.5 :P)

Large Scale:
Pretty well every large scale fight has massive (Relatively Passive – IE. Added effects to utilities) condition cleanses.

Many classes can AoE Cleanse (5 Targets). Some examples: Warrior Warhorn Converts One, Shouts + Soldier Runes Clear Two, and Guardian Shout + Soldiers Convert One/Clear One.

On top of this in T1 and T2 it is common to come across Zergs running Lemongrass-esq food (-40% condition duration). (If you don’t have at least 40% condition increase to compensate Terror will not even tick once and Dhuumfire will tick only once instead of 3 times.)(http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bowl_of_Lemongrass_Poultry_Soup)

Havoc (Small Squad WvW)
Conditions are more powerful, but it is not uncommon to come across a small squad with 2 or so Warriors/Guardians with AoE cleanses or players running Runes of Melandru + Lemongrass (Total 65% passive condition duration reduction)

PvE Dungeons

Most trash dies too fast for it to really matter, but on boss fights a single Necro can hit bleed cap (using 133% duration bleeds, due to the way the GM Curses scepter trait works). So even passive (crit procs etc.) clipping hurts your damage.

This also has the sad effect of making my condition build feel lack luster if we have more then one condition class in a dungeon.

PvE Meta-Bosses

With the FIFO application system, condition damage is essentially null. At least on Tarnished Coast crits from the number of players that show up will push off almost all meaningful damage.

Open World Champs

On higher pop./higher guested servers, you will not be able to get credit on the majority champions (particularly Frostgorge) with conditions.

sPvP

Conditions are an effective tool; many of Necro’s most powerful builds are condition based. Limited types of gear, small team sizes, and no food make a huge difference.

My hope at this point is that:

“We’re also looking to make conditions scale better in PvE/WvW leveling so that they’re more viable at different junctures in the level scale.”

Source: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/October-15th-balance-skills-updates-preview

Means they are looking into ways of addressing the problems above.

Buddy kept saying, why don’t you go condi on your PvE necro. It’s soo much better.
We did a HotW P1 with 3 ‘bleed heavy’ condi types. 1 Mes & myself on my power necro. Took ages longer than usal. The one time I died it pretty much halved the damage done.

It’s the stacks cap. A single necro can fill it. It’s also overwritten by weaker conditions. So someone with no condi power, adding 1 sec bleeding on crit, will pull off someone with as much condi power as they can gear’s 30sec bleed they pressed a long CD button to use.

Myrkr.5803:

My hope at this point is that:

“We’re also looking to make conditions scale better in PvE/WvW leveling so that they’re more viable at different junctures in the level scale.”

Source: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/October-15th-balance-skills-updates-preview

Means they are looking into ways of addressing the problems above.

Same but i’m 99% sure all it means is that they’re upping condition damage when leveling up or downscaled from 1-79. I don’t believe they’re touching the condition damage calculations when level 80 and doing level 80+ content. The only bonus is that non level 80 dungeons etc. conditions will be more useful because the max condi damage we’re allowed to have will be upped.

Other than that we’re going to have to wait for the big “condition patch” if it ever happens. I would like to finally see conditions do damage to objects and some bonus for keeping or maintaining condition stacks (or maybe Anet can actually find a way to raise the cap).

Balekai.6083

I would like to finally see conditions do damage to objects and some bonus for keeping or maintaining condition stacks (or maybe Anet can actually find a way to raise the cap).

Oh ya forgot about objects. <sighs> (Teq Fingers, WvW Doors, Siege, etc.)

Just can speak for PvE and there conditions (especially when focusing on bleeding) are no go.

I’ve played since launch and I actually don’t even own a pure-condition armor set.

I only ran it in Blue or Green rarity ages ago, and after trying gear of same rarity with different stats I concluded that Power just adds a ton of build variety and helps in many of situations in PvE.

Without Power Death Shroud deals way less damage and anywhere where you need to fight objects (like burrows in AC) you’ll be dragging others down.

Any world boss, like the Shatterer tends to constantly have 25 stacks of bleed on them, making your damage without Power so low that you might not even get credit even if you are there from the beginning.

Of course you could try doing things like killing the mobs that spawn, res NPCs etc. for credit instead.

I will say, though, that pure Condi is great for AoE.
Use Epidemic well and it’ll deal a TON of damage.

Personally I just run Hybrid if I wanna Epidemic something.
Leaves me with enough Power to Life Blast or Lich Form things that conditions are bad for.

In PvP it’s a different story, though.
There pure condi is very powerful and Death Shroud rarely lasts long.

In PvE certain dungeons are much harder with a condition damage focused build. (specifically, ascalonian catacombs exp paths 1 and 3 due to the burrows, CoE due to alpha cleansing conditions, the ice fractal with the elemental “object” boss, and the dredge fractal where your condition damage isn’t amplified by the debuff). These instances are harder either because your condition damage doesn’t hurt objects, or the enemies/bosses cleanse them constantly.

The other problem, like others have said, is that condition damage builds have little to no synergy with one another. On top of that, there aren’t any conditions that really support one another. However, there is a condition that supports direct damage (vulnerability) and direct damage stacks with more direct damage without any problems.

Condition damage takes a huge blow when you’re down leveled. At lower levels flat stats (power, vitality, and toughness) “scale down” the best while “supportive stats” (precision, healing power, condition damage, critical damage) tend to scale down for crap.

as of now, conditions are weak in PvE (just like how summons are weak in PvE) because they are currently balanced for PvP. Anet will eventually make PvE only balance passes to make them work in PvE more effectively.

I have to say that even running pure condition damage, I never have failed to get credit for events. Always gotten Gold, even on the massive world bosses.

So, the people saying you don’t get kill credit are just blowing steam. Yes, you aren’t doing much damage in those cases, but you do still get credit.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I have to say that even running pure condition damage, I never have failed to get credit for events. Always gotten Gold, even on the massive world bosses.

So, the people saying you don’t get kill credit are just blowing steam. Yes, you aren’t doing much damage in those cases, but you do still get credit.

Most people confuse the small window of time (2-3 seconds or less), when you can tag a mob before it dies, and not get loot/credit, with a lack of direct damage. That window of “failed to get credit” is the same in power builds as well. Quite a few patches ago, they changed credit to be such that if you do ANY damage at all, you get at least bronze, and in most cases any damage will net you gold.

Problems with condition:
1) Condition cap.
2) Ramp up time & lack of burst
3) Doesn’t out dps direct damage build with (2) as disadvantage
4) Only 2 offensive stats in rabid vs 3 stats with zerker, maybe the cause of (3)
5) Boss cleanse conditions
6) Doesn’t work on object
7) Advantage would be armor ignoring but in pve, nothing has super high armor to justify it.

That said, for most of the pugs out there, condition build is fine.

Afya.5842:

3) Doesn’t out dps direct damage build with (2) as disadvantage

After the initial ramp up (which isn’t all that long) and assuming no buffs from other sources, condition necro (I don’t know about other classes) actually outdps zerker builds in sustained damage (I’m not aware of a zerker build that it doesn’t). The thing is that when you start adding might, vulnerability, fury, banners, potions, empower allies, spotter, etc. direct damage scales way quicker and with way more, thus leaving conditions far behind.