Condition Damage vs. Power-Which One?
Personally, I wouldn’t go with a condition damage focus without at least 20 in Curses. 10 damage/bleed/second is a surprising amount of damage, and that’s not including the fact you’re giving up Terror or Master of Corruption. With that trait setup, I would go with a power build instead as you lack the really useful traits for a condition damage setup.
Instead, try a 20/30/20 setup. You lose Death Nova (oh well, not like you lack for Poison) and minion siphoning (you don’t need it), but gain lots of condition damage and boosting traits. Weakening Shroud is better in WvW and Hemophilia is better in PvE, so there is your adept level. Terror is your next target (or whichever of the adept tier I mentioned that you didn’t take, they work fine in tandem). Lingering Curse caps it out (most of your bleed stacking comes from the auto-attack on scepter).
(edited by Drarnor Kunoram.5180)
pve: power (condi caps makes organised pve a major pain whilst many encounters are anti condi… but minions or condi are pretty decent solo pve)
wvw zvz: power (condis dont have time to ramp up and minions melt)
wvw roaming: condi (but… you lack the escapes -spectral run and;if norn; leopard form)
Desolation: 80 ranger [Nightwither], 80 necro [Dusk Grimsoul]
80 warr [Blaze Steelsoul], 80 ele [Blaze Nightstrike], 80 mesmer [Grim Shatterwhirl]
80 guard [Dusk Grimlight], 80 engi [Flintgear]
80 warr [Blaze Steelsoul], 80 ele [Blaze Nightstrike], 80 mesmer [Grim Shatterwhirl]
80 guard [Dusk Grimlight], 80 engi [Flintgear]
Was just a fairly large discussion on condition damage (essentially vs power) a couple days ago.
Worth reading, as it sums up the current struggles with condition damage nicely.
Myrkr Draugr – Necromancer of the Tarnished Coast
Suggestion for Necromancers Lack of Block/Vigor/Evade/Invulnerable
Suggestion for Necromancers Lack of Block/Vigor/Evade/Invulnerable
Go with Celestial and have fun doing both at the same time.With the right build you can do 80% of the DMG a power necro can do,along with good Condi ticks,with Bleed ticks around 110-120.
(edited by Banjal.7328)
Condition damage excells in managing multiple trash mobs and nothing beats it in that arena. Power trumps conditions for single targets. Berserker-hybrid builds improve both stats for maximum dps and squishiness.
Minion Master traits are designed for power, toughness, and vitality. Precision and crit bonus are not as effective trait allocations but, of course, you can still build that way.
Axe was designed as a vulnerability applicator. Your minions’ dps will improve with stacks of vuln. on the target.
i really dont like power builds… lack of cleave and most of dagger and axe skills simply suck… and even if you go full zerker the dmg is still too low(for my taste at least) so i for one choose conditions been using them since the game was released and im pretty happy with them
Power with some condition on the side is the way to go. Celestial is a decent choice for armor with everything else being zerker.
Thanks for the help everyone! But….I still have one more question concerning power. While doing some dps trials in PvP, I’ve begun to notice that, (while using minions) I can do more damage with the scepter/dagger than with the axe/focus over time, but more damage during a shorter period of time with the axe/focus. This should seem pretty obvious, but what I’m getting at is that without minions, axe and/or death shroud damage is pretty sad. I can only hit about 1000 with the main attack, and 4000 with the number 2 attack on the axe, with full berserker and maxed damage.
The only problem is, many other professions can hit quite a bit more than that with maxed berserker set ups.
So why not simply go for what the necromancer is good at: inflicting a ton of conditions. There are obvious reasons, such as condition removal and attacking objects, but I want to know if there is any true disadvantage to using conditions and if anyone else agrees that the axe really does not really do that much damage.
In larger battles, conditions are useless: World Bosses, events, and WvW zergs. In pvp, wvw roaming (and even in dungeons if you’re the only condimancer) condi is fine. It takes unnecessarily long to set up bleeds on dungeon mobs, but it’s fine.
But with WvW zergs, there are so many aoe cleanses or squishies dropping quickly, you’ll only get 2-3 stacks of bleeds, or epidemic a dead target. On the pve end of it, you have to fight to be one of 25 bleeds, or one poison or burn. So you’re limited to less than ~2500 dps -at best-, so you might as well go power anyway.
So if you’re going condi in pvp, you’re fine. It’s just in larger fights, you’ll just be doing your scepter damage, or will be applying bleeds to dead targets.
Thanks for the help everyone! But….I still have one more question concerning power. While doing some dps trials in PvP, I’ve begun to notice that, (while using minions) I can do more damage with the scepter/dagger than with the axe/focus over time, but more damage during a shorter period of time with the axe/focus. This should seem pretty obvious, but what I’m getting at is that without minions, axe and/or death shroud damage is pretty sad. I can only hit about 1000 with the main attack, and 4000 with the number 2 attack on the axe, with full berserker and maxed damage.
The only problem is, many other professions can hit quite a bit more than that with maxed berserker set ups.
So why not simply go for what the necromancer is good at: inflicting a ton of conditions. There are obvious reasons, such as condition removal and attacking objects, but I want to know if there is any true disadvantage to using conditions and if anyone else agrees that the axe really does not really do that much damage.
Axe #2 has three major advantages over most hard-hitting skills: it has a short cooldown, is ranged, and it doesn’t lock you in one place.
Hundred Blades is the highest damaging skill in the game, but while it hits hard and has a short cooldown, simply using it means you get damage OR mobility. If your target takes a step backward, you’re flailing around uselessly because it roots you and is melee.
Churning Earth likewise locks you down and is a glorified melee range skill. Meteor Shower forces you to stand still for a heavy-hitting ranged skill. Both of these have long cooldowns. Same thing with Barrage on Rangers.
No other “high damage” skill has that combination of attributes. Yes, Axe#2 deals less damage than my examples, usually, but since the skill itself is more flexible, it evens out some.
And are you just forgetting to Vuln stack someone? Even when in Knight’s gear, I hit 4k reliably.
Axe #2 has three major advantages over most hard-hitting skills: it has a short cooldown, is ranged, and it doesn’t lock you in one place.
Not to pop your bubble but…
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phoenix
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Smite
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rapid_Fire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Volley
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unload
Yeah, GC is only stronger than the last entry on the line… But even so the last 3 have the advantage of being true projectiles thus always seeking the thing you targeted if they are in a 140~ cone.
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
Umm, so does Ghastly Claws. Sure, YOU can’t see the target, but it still hits them. Being true projectiles is frequently a downside due to the amount of projectile-hate in the game.
Smite: Unpredictable at best, given that each strike hits a tiny location inside that area. Works well for Lupicus and other really big targets, not so well for much else.
Pheonix: Less damage, though more utility. also, a 20 second cooldown is not short, so it’s really irrelevant to the conversation.
Rapid Fire: one of the few skills that does have the advantages I listed. Vulnerability to projectile hate is evened out by the finisher chance and vulnerability stacks. I recall it rooting you in place, but I will check again.
Volley: Not much to comment on here. It certainly has the advantages I listed and does so from longer range with more damage.
Unload: The other skill that also has the advantages I listed. Still weaker than Ghastly Claws.
So, I don’t see how you disputed my point, there. I did say “over most”, so the fact there is really only two skills that hit harder and has the advantages I listed doesn’t make me any less correct. However, those skills all do have superior range. This is more of a weakness of the axe not being sure if it’s really supposed to be a ranged weapon or not.
Ghastly claws doesnt hit hard at all.
Umm, so does Ghastly Claws. Sure, YOU can’t see the target, but it still hits them. Being true projectiles is frequently a downside due to the amount of projectile-hate in the game.
Smite: Unpredictable at best, given that each strike hits a tiny location inside that area. Works well for Lupicus and other really big targets, not so well for much else.
Pheonix: Less damage, though more utility. also, a 20 second cooldown is not short, so it’s really irrelevant to the conversation.
Rapid Fire: one of the few skills that does have the advantages I listed. Vulnerability to projectile hate is evened out by the finisher chance and vulnerability stacks. I recall it rooting you in place, but I will check again.
Volley: Not much to comment on here. It certainly has the advantages I listed and does so from longer range with more damage.
Unload: The other skill that also has the advantages I listed. Still weaker than Ghastly Claws.
So, I don’t see how you disputed my point, there. I did say “over most”, so the fact there is really only two skills that hit harder and has the advantages I listed doesn’t make me any less correct. However, those skills all do have superior range. This is more of a weakness of the axe not being sure if it’s really supposed to be a ranged weapon or not.
Ghastly claws has a angle of around 60, true projectiles have more than double of it (so strafing doesnt weaken your skill just as much, but true you can negate projectiles in a just as easy way).
Smite is kinda situational true with the same weakness as GC, but overall will do the same damage in a pvp fight and more in most pve fights. And doesnt require channels
You know that ph hits a total of 3 times, projectile going out, explosion, projectile going back, with not only a higher power ratio, but less retaliation damage taken and gives not just more utility but flat out being a better skill since it covers your defensive needs. But that argument be countered by higher cd which is true (but i dont really think that cds really matter on a ele either way in most cases).
RF allows movement during cast (its barrage that roots you).
Overall i just wanted to point out that there are skills that are overall better in at least 2 points over GC/that GC doesnt have a real advantage in comparison to other skills and that there are way harder hitting similar skills at range (also a zerker unload does around the same damage as a GC).
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
Ghastly claws doesnt hit hard at all.
Mine does 7-9k
Ghastly claws doesnt hit hard at all.
Mine does 7-9k
A scepter 3 with 5+ condi does the same amount on crit in hybrid builds (ok it might scale a bit too strong with power and damage pre condition for a skill on a condi weapon), sooo your point is?
15k is a reasonable “hard hit” from a channel skill in any kind of offensive power build, if you get under 10k damage on a power build with your “bursts”, you are better off doing a condi build with consistent 4~6k dps from poison and bleeds since you can multiply it by 5 with a decent epidemic and do insane stuff on some of the new bosses without defiant via terror builds.
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
Ghastly claws is incredibly weak for its channel time. Its one of the weakest “burst” skills in the game. Yeah you can hit 15k over 3 seconds but thats pretty terrible lol.
Ghastly claws doesnt hit hard at all.
Mine does 7-9k
A scepter 3 with 5+ condi does the same amount on crit in hybrid builds (ok it might scale a bit too strong with power and damage pre condition for a skill on a condi weapon), sooo your point is?
15k is a reasonable “hard hit” from a channel skill in any kind of offensive power build, if you get under 10k damage on a power build with your “bursts”, you are better off doing a condi build with consistent 4~6k dps from poison and bleeds since you can multiply it by 5 with a decent epidemic and do insane stuff on some of the new bosses without defiant via terror builds.
My DMG numbers come from WvW,I dont do PvE much.
There is no point,people said Axe 3 doesn’t hit hard,but it does.
(edited by Banjal.7328)
There is no point,people said Axe 3 doesn’t hit hard,but it does.
Talk is about Axe 2, Axe 3 is ther for the retal and boon removal and is awesome already/would be really strong if reduced to a 3/4 cast time (what i personally find the optimal cast time for necro skills, longer than the typical 1/2, but not so long that even a lazy person like myself can interrupt it without actually paying attention).
And for wvwvw, why is anyone even talking about power vs condi, condi for zerging and attacks (because epidemic and carts), power for defense (wells n chill plague), easy.
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
Ghastly claws is a channel that can be traited for extra toughness. I often use it as a defensive measure so there is that. However, just the autoattack is worth it if you are the only one stacking vulnerability; especially if you are running minions who will happily take advantage of that.