Guild Wars 2

spoj.9672:

You want to run scepter and dagger in both weapon sets and use a battle sigil. And you want to drop staff mastery and take path of midnight. Dark path and tainted shackles are good skills for condi. And tainted shackles is good for power aswell. Also if people dont stack might you want signet mastery and aristocracy runes.

This is a good “bad party adivce”. My post was mainly focused on high lv fotm. I expect 25 stacks might even from pugs. So S/D + S/D and battle would be a terrible thing. You also don’t really need the DS cdr, since they won’t make your rotation better, yet a too long staff cd on staff 2 will annoy your rotation. You will go into DS while being on staff, after using 2#, wich is ready again when you left DS.

Batresh.3958:

Xyonon.3987:

When there is no more cap then …

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQNArYWn0ISzN2dDO2A/NmAXok6HgeBCg7N6MoDGBA-TBSAABKcIAwW5X0nAAp1HYt6PA8EA6Z/h2UCSKAImGB-e

… is this the way you should go. You can swap out the stacking sigil if you don’t think it’s worth it, I’m not a fan of them, but it’ll be fun I guess. You can also go 46400 for bigger staff fields too if you really need them, but I doubt it.

With this build you got the highest damage and will cause sick condition damage via epidemic. And most important – 100% weakness uptime.

ignore all this if you meant the build was for pvp… If you go for sinister, you could simply just go hybrid, the staff is useless, weakness is useless, if you need to have most condi damage it’s this build here http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRIQJArYlc0ontV3w7G83MxuQNVSAdAcmxb0TQG0BA-TBSAABFqFI6TggYK/A4BEEq6P9s/Ah6QaTJYAgDgxLeAxH/4jP+4jPe7u7u7u7ulCAmlVA-e
AND! The playstyle goes like this, BiP > Deathly Swarm > Sharpnel Mine > Grasping Dead > 2 Scepter Autoattacks > Enfeebling Blood > DS > Dark Path > and now keyboard roll and volla! you have definitely over 25 Bleeding Stacks Sustainable :>, so the best race for conditonmancer is Charr.. The more you know

When you go hybrid, you focus on power and half conditions. Then you’d be better dropping epidemic and everything too and go straight for power. Hybrid builds always have flaws. You will never go a power and a condi weapon, you will always go full A or B and get a bit of the other damage sources. In this case you must focus on max condi damage for epidemic to have it’s full potential.

As I mentioned above, my build was inteded to fit high lv fotm, where weakness is extremly noticable and aoe with staff, aswell condi transfer + share is highly recommended. We can argue about the usefulness of a staff, yet someone who calls weakness useless clearly underestimates it’s power and must also think boons like protection are useless aswell…

Loubbo.9852:

While this is a great change I always thought the main problem with conditions wasn’t so much the damage (which is low or limited application) but how they don’t work on objects like doors, crates, turrets, and other destructibles?

So even with the change it still wont by any means be desired in any way shape or form over power.

When 4 others can do it I really see no problem in that. Everything has it strengths and weaknesses, so do power builds.

Swamurabi.7890:

Are there any boss fights in HoT beta where the boss has immunity to direct damage but still takes condition damage?

It would be nice to have encounters where both direct damage and damage over time are needed.

There already are high toughness enemies (husks). You deal like 20% dmg but still 100% condi damage since conditions ignore armor. Those are the main targets for condis.

You dont want staff even in an organised group. Even if you dont use battle sigil camping scepter dagger is superior. And path of midnight is a must have.

As long as boss still has zero armor, condi still won’t stand a chance in dungeon.

Bhawb.7408:

Frankly, I almost hope it doesn’t happen because now everyone is going to think its okay to run condi in groups when it is still massively subpar in almost every situation. All of a sudden we’ll have people running condi Necro talking about how they are contributing, as though they aren’t doing half the damage of a proper build.

Its a nice change and it needs to happen eventually, but they really need to fix PvE design at the same time.

Meanwhile, I can’t wait to see the kittenstorm in dungeon forum. Wait….the dungeon forum….

spoj.9672:

You dont want staff even in an organised group. Even if you dont use battle sigil camping scepter dagger is superior. And path of midnight is a must have.

It’s really not that bad. You roll marks and then use DS for DS5 + 2 + 3 + 4 (if >2 enemies nearby, 1 otherwise for 2 casts), drop DS, cast Mark of Blood and at that point you can swap back to S/D. Since you’re Sinister it’s actually a DPS boost (especially if you are fighting >1 enemy) compared to camping S/D.

I’ve actually also been comparing Sinister S/D DPS to Sinister D/W DPS with Sigil of Earth and Sigils of Geomancy and I’m pretty sure D/W is higher. In that case, it’s a major DPS boost to use Life Transfer because the numerous hits proc a number of bleeds.

Game will be broken beyond belief if this extended to WvW or PvP. Don’t really see the point in doing it in PvE either, I think conditions as a whole just need to be changed in some way, removing the cap still won’t make condi builds wanted in PvE for the most part.

Would be better to just use staff marks out of combat and then swap weapon. Because in an extended fight you arent going to want to get stuck with staff for 10 seconds. It only works as an opener.

L Step.8659:

Game will be broken beyond belief if this extended to WvW or PvP. Don’t really see the point in doing it in PvE either, I think conditions as a whole just need to be changed in some way, removing the cap still won’t make condi builds wanted in PvE for the most part.

I don’t think it would be. If you’re getting focused enough to hit, say, 30 bleeds, you should be dying regardless of what kind of build is attacking you. Condition clears are so prevalent in WvW and PvP that the chance of actually hitting the cap now is unheard of. Increasing the stack cap won’t change that.

spoj.9672:

Would be better to just use staff marks out of combat and then swap weapon. Because in an extended fight you arent going to want to get stuck with staff for 10 seconds. It only works as an opener.

That’s why a majority of those 10 seconds in Staff are actually spent in DS. Because you’re Sinister, the power components of DS skills still really shine.

If you get 25 stacks of bleeds on you in PvP/WvW and you have no way to condi clense it within 2-4 seconds of noticing you’re dead anyways (which doesn’t happen). If 25-100 extra stacks are allowed to be built up by an enemy group/zerg on you or your allies in WvW, you deserve to die. :p

The only thing I could see in PvP/WvW is stacking loads of condis on a high health NPC and using Epidemic spams to condi nuke defenders into oblivion.

Edit:

Rising Dusk.2408:

spoj.9672:

Would be better to just use staff marks out of combat and then swap weapon. Because in an extended fight you arent going to want to get stuck with staff for 10 seconds. It only works as an opener.

That’s why a majority of those 10 seconds in Staff are actually spent in DS. Because you’re Sinister, the power components of DS skills still really shine.

I found myself doing that already in non-precision based condi builds that rely on weapon swap bleeds and Mark of Evasion for extra DPS. Start with Staff /Marks, switch to S/D to drop those skills and AA, switch back and drop any Marks that recharged, go into DS and drop Dark Path, Tainted Shackles, Doom and Life Transfer, exit and repeat.

Except when Sinister you can actually hang out in DS and still DPS quite well using Life Blasts, while still DoTing with massive duration and damaging bleed ticks.

This is the build I have been using for a year now, and I think it will only get better with this change:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQNArYWjc00cb1Ne3wfbCchaqnA6DIAu3ozgJYEA-TByCABAcEAO+BAglyPh2f4S1fm4QAon+gxUCGA4AY36W3dDY3d3d3d3tUAwssC-e

I will probably swap to sinister and a new rune set and see how that goes. I would have done it already… but infusions are expensive and not easy to transfer… I wish there was a non gem store infusion remover.

You have 3 corruption skills and still won’t trait them? Screw the minor fear damage, cdr op!

Tim.6450:

GhOst.4019:

PvP would be lost forever if it went there too.

Why? What builds do ever reach 25+ stacks in solo play?

bleed ranger and bleed warrior can reach it

There are a few that can just reach it, but no one will realistically pass it by much.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQRBLRhG2IHNN2Wdj3N83mAXom6Jg+NDgoN6MoDGBA-TBDFABFrcxXtAAcEA+9BA6AeSJlDHEgM0IkmmAhV/RhTAQc7PolSQSBsowK-e

this is pretty much the build I’ve been running. Although on occasion I might pull 2 points from Spite and blood magic and put it into soul reaping to extend Death shroud and reduce its recharge. Apart from that it’s pretty similar to ZudetGambeous’s.

Some may question the taking of the zerk dagger/warhorn as it drops the condition ticks but boy oh boy is it fun to dive in with a dagger while the ticks are happening.

I’m going to wait and see if the condi cap remains uncapped and also how our specialization will look before investing in Sinister. I would have made it already if it wasn’t for the fact i’m carrying around 3-4 armor sets as it is.

So until then, my ascended chests and mats will remain unused, but I’ve been itching to use Sinister since its release to replace my Rabid set.

who uses zerker for big boss fights? AFAIK most big bosses are considered a special type of structure immune to crit that’s why zerker’s go soldier on tequatal.

Vizardlorde.8243:

who uses zerker for big boss fights? AFAIK most big bosses are considered a special type of structure immune to crit that’s why zerker’s go soldier on tequatal.

Well in the case of Tequatl if you don’t have an issue surviving, the extra Zerker damage is nice for the batteries. I run Zerker for that reason instead of my soldier set.

NeXeD.3042:

Hoping this is for pve only.

Why? With all the cleansing in PvP, I really don’t see a stack change as anything different. When I play condi, I usually maintain around 12 stacks at any given time… Never seen 25 in pvp.

Just a quick interjection with regards to the pros and cons of hybrid builds (Sinister stats). It’s important to keep in mind one of the strengths of a hybrid build, and that is versatility.

A zerker focused party composition will always do more damage to a low toughness stationary mob, as it should. And a pure condi build will always do more damage to a high toughness, mobile and melee unfriendly (PBAoE) mob since dodges only lower zerker damage, but stacked condis tick regardless.

So when faced with the inevitable (fingers crossed) mixing of highly mobile and or ranged, high toughness mobs and others with low toughness and more stationary, instead of a full zerker party only being half optimal the hybrids can switch on the fly (weapon swap) depending on the strengths and weaknesses of what they face.

My point is you can’t judge the effectiveness of the weapon without weighing it against the strengths and weaknesses of the target. Variation of enemy stats / skills will render the ‘one zerker to rule them all’ calculations inaccurate (again fingers crossed).

The combination of removing the condi cap and Anet creating more varied encounters should in my opinion make hybrid builds more ‘viable’ and (more importantly) versatile as the game goes forward and we see more variation in what we face.

ok that wasn’t so quick…but I’m versatile so whatever

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Bran.7425:

Imagine the first boss after the change that transfer the conditions back at the players.

Well of Power -> 30 minutes of might, fury, swiftness, and protection… sounds good to me lol.

This isn’t how Well of Power works, because if Well of Power worked like that it would actually be a good skill.

Do you all think the servers could actually handle keeping up with 25+ stacks on things like bleed and confusion? I’m not sure if PvP would be effected, there’s less people, and it takes more effort to reach above those caps, but in WvW since the stability change the skill lag seems to get crazy on any fight, even if you’re not in it. I believe they listed the servers not being able to handle accounting for all the stacks coming in and out and the various durations as a reasoning for the cap in the first place, but I could be wrong, which correct me if I am. I’m just kind of worried about WvW becoming virtually unplayable.

Even on the stress test I had a few moments where none of my skills were working, and a couple of friends in TS had the same problem at the same time, and it just seemed to happen the few times we fought the wyvern (which is where you had the most players grouped up at during the beta) and that was only 30ish people.

Unless you can use it vs npc’s WvW is fine,zerg don’t let conditions stack and if you already have close to 25 you are probably dead.

Wasbunny.6531:

Just a quick interjection with regards to the pros and cons of hybrid builds (Sinister stats). It’s important to keep in mind one of the strengths of a hybrid build, and that is versatility.

A zerker focused party composition will always do more damage to a low toughness stationary mob, as it should. And a pure condi build will always do more damage to a high toughness, mobile and melee unfriendly (PBAoE) mob since dodges only lower zerker damage, but stacked condis tick regardless.

So when faced with the inevitable (fingers crossed) mixing of highly mobile and or ranged, high toughness mobs and others with low toughness and more stationary, instead of a full zerker party only being half optimal the hybrids can switch on the fly (weapon swap) depending on the strengths and weaknesses of what they face.

My point is you can’t judge the effectiveness of the weapon without weighing it against the strengths and weaknesses of the target. Variation of enemy stats / skills will render the ‘one zerker to rule them all’ calculations inaccurate (again fingers crossed).

The combination of removing the condi cap and Anet creating more varied encounters should in my opinion make hybrid builds more ‘viable’ and (more importantly) versatile as the game goes forward and we see more variation in what we face.

ok that wasn’t so quick…but I’m versatile so whatever

Dodging lowers condi damage aswell. The game is designed so maintaining high condi damage relies on maintaining your auto attack. If you dodge your stacks of condis drop slightly. DoT damage in GW2 is not the same as it is in other games. You cant fire and forget your DoT cooldowns. You have to constantly maintain and reapply them. Any interruption to that will reduce your dps. And due to auto attack dependance and build up time, dodging causes almost the same proportional damage loss as on direct damage.

The only difference between the two types is condi has build up time and is more effective against very high armour. And direct is more bursty and has faster recovery time. It also has much higher maximum output and sustained dps assuming armour isnt completely off the charts. Direct is also slightly more dependant on buffs to be effective.

I think where the potential for the raised condi cap is in more interactive boss fights. Fights where you cant just sit there and face tank anything the boss is doing and have to be more interactive. Where zerker builds have to actively be attacking to get their damage out there, conditions are still ticking for damage even when youre running and dodging red rings. So perhaps with newer content and in some fractals condi builds will now have their place. Zerker builds SHOULD have a higher maximum damage and burst potential (otherwise the meta would just reverse and we’d have the same problem), but I think where condi’s strengths will lie is in it’s dependability.

Read my post above yours. You lose damage by running and dodging just like you do with berserker builds. You are thinking of DoT damage in other games. It doesnt work the same in GW2.

Yep I just got down to that post, I hadnt switched to page 2 yet when I made my reply XD

This makes me so happy. I will NEVER play a POWER based Necro. WHY? Because from a fantasy perspective, Necromancers deal with DECAY, PLAGUES, CURSES, DEATH, and SICKNESS… Which means, Damage Over Time spells. Not some heavy hitting necro. Psh!

I’m glad my Condimancer will finally see the light of day where my insane condition output will be put to full use!

I might gonna invest time in PvE,

I might.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Speaking of things they could do, what if they made conditions able to critically hit.

It would possibly add some fun use of variety in builds to the meta.

and probably completely kill Spvp in the process.

Certain classes could really benefit this eg. Ranger.
I can already cap 25 bleed stacks w/o Shortbow or crit procs plus have perma burning and poison which is 50% more effective due to it being traited.
So on a boss with SB and crit procs they could stack enough to rival power builds.

MtD Mesmers could do really well, especially on mobile bosses, they can keep a high amount of torment up as well as confusion (which recently got a buff) and have a wide condi application with Staff.

If I could play my condi ranger in PvE dungeons I would be so freaking happy! But that’s probably wishful thinking, we’ll have to taste the pudding before we can comment.