Guild Wars 2

Hi guys,

I’m having the worst time defeating Eles,
I’m condi 0/30/20/20/0
1k6 condition damage
1830 toughness
20,5k hp
2k7 armor

It’s always the same thing, I apply all the bleedstacks I can, Corrupt Boon when all his boons are activated, but he keeps on cleansing and healing.

Other classes usually go down fast after Corrupt Boon but Ele’s hardly seem to be bothered at all by this. Don’t ask me what build it was using, it was WvW 1v1.

Thanks for any advice

He was probably running 0/10/0/30/30 or 0/0/10/30/30 . Honestly, only way you can win this is just keep on interrupting him during certain skills. Ether renewal is the big one (they hold out their hands and have particles spinning around them) to watch out for, followed by him switching to water as your conditions will usually fall off during this attunement swap and heal alone.

every water swap if they are running Cleansing Water (10s ICD)basically 1-2 conditions removed, and each cantrips also removes one extra (10 ICD. both seperate). If they also have Evasive arcana, expect a small burst heal+ condi removal every 10s if they roll (10s ICD) . According to my ele friend, that means that you can have a condition removal almost every 5 seconds if the Ele plays smart. Chill will help you some in the fight if you keep it on a good while (both before and when they are in water swap), but it really all comes down to how much pressure you can apply in a short time while they are interrupted or chilled. Even then, you have to remember that they may have 3 condition removal in utilities. Remember, that if they do run from the fight , you have the option to reset the fight yourself.

Im pretty sure there are other Condi necros who can give you more advice than I can. Its a tough battle.

Yes, despite being one of those auto-pilot boon loving specs, the x/x/x/30/30 dd builds will still shrug off corrupt boon if you don’t hit them at the right time.

Are you running terror?
‘ll
Personally, I try to pressure them without CB until earth armour comes up and they come out of a water cycle, that’s your opportunity to burst them out. There’s not much you can do about mist form/RTL escapes but such is like, at least they’ll come off point. Interrupting the heal with DS3 goes a really long way but still, it’s never more than 10 seconds to another water attune, and probably 15 until another heal comes up.

I haven’t fought with my condi spec versus an ele for quite awhile now, so I may be a bit outdated…

It is very possible. You just have to play spot on. The key is to maintain the pressure. Always keep bleeds up. One of things that I like about scepter is even when they remove it, the bleeds get reapplied right away. And so you just keep adding the bleeds and kiting them for days.

(I used S/F so I could keep up a fair amount of chill and cripple)

The timing on CB is of course, crucial. It should not be blown at the beginning of a fight. I almost used it as a way to finish them. Pressure them and pressure them until their health gets low, then hit em hard and fast with CB. It is never going to be a short battle, but you can win it. If you know ele skills well, an ele is more than likely going to get frustrated and try leaving if you play it right.

It is possible to fight Eles, but beating a tanky ele 1v1 is really annoying. You need to interrupt key parts of their rotation, especially if you can delay their heals. Besides what people have said already, you want to save your bursts for right after they leave water. If at all possible, you want to at least put down small condi bursts every single time they leave water, because it is their main tool with dealing with condis. And if you put out enough pressure when they are out of Water attunement, they are forced to scrap a lot of offensive rotations and just continuously drop back into water every time it is up; which means little to no offensive pressure from them (if they don’t deal damage, you won’t lose).

Generally, the key to beating Ele is stopping their heal, and messing up their rotations whenever you can. talk to any ele guildies you have that you think are competent in PvP, or watch good eles play, and learn their rotations. Interrupt their offensive rotations, delay them from being able to get into water often, and they can’t win. Just never allow them to keep cycling through their skill rotations freely.

Enemy of the Ele=Chill.

As with any mediocre player running off a predetermined, optimal build using a predetermined, optimal rotation if you break the rotation, they panic. Because now they have to use their initiative, as their CDs are scrambled ever so slightly and initiative isn’t something certified by good-natured individuals using spreadsheets to be effective.

If you suspect this is the case at hand, CB on stability and blitz both terrors. At the very least it’ll give you a laugh.
However, it gets interesting if the player in question happens to not be running a simple, mental automation. In this case, play it defensive – utilize any movement benefits and penalties, such as the wurm active ability and Dark Path – and wait for the correct moment to CB.

It’s all about the interrupts and cc to let your conditions tick and slowly kill him. I’m playing the following build in pvp and I’m not struggling too much against them: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNArYWjMa96xbub0bKApCPPV47oHEH8xUKKndA-TsAgyCuI+S9l7LzXyvsfNqY5x0DA

This build stacks bleeds VERY fast. every time I dodge into him it adds 2 bleeds+regen on me, switch weapon 3 bleeds, enter DS 2 bleeds+weakness on him plus all my weap skills etc.

They have a very hard time cleansing and when I reach 8-9 bleeds I start chain ccing. if they have stability I corrupt boons, then knockback with the golem, then ds chill+fear, then staff fear. If you count with the fear also dealing dmg and all the tiny moves that add bleed they tend to have 12-13 bleeds on them during the whole cc and either die or drop to a point where its hardly recoverable for them.

another very important thing to do is to let them stack a max duration burn then just put it back on them with putrid mark or deathly swarm before the ccing, that really makes a difference. I literally stand in their breath of fire when they use it then reflect and cc.

really what makes the difference is how fast you apply bleeds. They can keep cleansing, every 2 seconds I add another 2-3 bleeds and that really adds up, then its all about timing your 5-8 seconds cc and let them burn in their own fire.

-F

Could you tell us more about your traits, runes and sigils?

I don’t want to make any wild guesses, but I suspect that you just don’t do enough damage…

I use a intensity condition build that focuses on Terror with a mix of carrion and rabid, with +40% duration food Terror is 100% duration and it hurts! I keep chill up really well between staff and DS.

Pop your elite early, I like to use it right off the bat with 100% HP…

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAW7YjMah7tbyb87JApCPH944gNm6B8pfOA-jEyA4MBZaBE5JwpwioxWRLiGrmBTlSEV7QKiWtUAQsGA-w

Don’t see the 1272 Toughness and think its little, I assure you it is not, I can take a beating in this build.

One thing I can share is when I see an ele coming, drop marks if you have time other wise make sure you are in DS -stability- as he charges you and do your thing. Usually, they run away…

You can never kill a good bunker elementalist, at best what you can do is make him go away.
You can do that in two ways, and you have to apply both of them… bunker elementalists have low damage, and rely on fire and earth to deal the real damage… dodge their fire damage, dodge the lightning charge to prevent getting into a CC lock since we don’t have stability, CC them back when they get into water to heal and cleanse all…
Never apply all bleeds at once, but rather have 7-8 bleeds on him, wait to get cleansed, then apply 7 more back…

You won’t kill him… cause he will mist form + blink away… but you will make him go away. That’s the best one can hope for…

A good bunker elementalist has… hmmm… 5 condition removals ?… yeah… i think 5, and on low CDs… That + the mobility they have = no way to win… seriously, just consider them as the condition necromancer counter and focus on other classes.

That’s my take on this.

Basically what Nemesis.8593 said. A good D/D or S/D bunker will win most of the time if you are both on the same skill level.

Maybe this summary of what a ele bunker is able to do will help you though:

Advantages

• Good damage output for a bunker
• Good condition removal
• Good heals on a low CD
• Great team support (boons, heals, condition removal)
• Ok stability uptime
• 3 Stun breaks
• Mist Form
• Mobility (if you hit your target)
• Good for rezzing if Mist Form is off CD

Disadvantages

• Needs boons to be effective => vulnerable to boon removal
• Low HP => vulnerable to burst
• Needs to dodge a lot to tank => vulnerable to immobilize, knockdowns, etc.
• Mobility (if you don’t hit your target)
• Bad for rezzing if Mist Form is on CD

The best way to counter an ele bunker is burst and lots of boon removal. I can’t think of any necro condition builds which are able to counter bunker eles so I guess either ignore them or ask a teammate to help you.

Nemesis.8593:

You can never kill a good bunker elementalist, at best what you can do is make him go away.
You can do that in two ways, and you have to apply both of them… bunker elementalists have low damage, and rely on fire and earth to deal the real damage… dodge their fire damage, dodge the lightning charge to prevent getting into a CC lock since we don’t have stability, CC them back when they get into water to heal and cleanse all…
Never apply all bleeds at once, but rather have 7-8 bleeds on him, wait to get cleansed, then apply 7 more back…

You won’t kill him… cause he will mist form + blink away… but you will make him go away. That’s the best one can hope for…

A good bunker elementalist has… hmmm… 5 condition removals ?… yeah… i think 5, and on low CDs… That + the mobility they have = no way to win… seriously, just consider them as the condition necromancer counter and focus on other classes.

That’s my take on this.

if its a group fight, a good way to get them is also to stack a ton of conditions on someone with few condition removals, then epidemic, corrupt boon, cc and focus on him, I’ve had a few in wvw that way but agreed, they can run away fast and just reset the fight which is why if you didn’t kill him by the end of the cc chain you might as well let him reset the fight (necrotic traversal helps for that)

Nemesis.8593:

You can never kill a good bunker elementalist, at best what you can do is make him go away.

Maybe with your build…

Blackhat.4016:

I can’t think of any necro condition builds which are able to counter bunker eles

With my build they are one of the easiest opponents in wvw.

So saying that a good bunker ele beats a conditionmancer everytime is just false. It comes down to the build.

flow.6043:

Nemesis.8593:

You can never kill a good bunker elementalist, at best what you can do is make him go away.

Maybe with your build…

Blackhat.4016:

I can’t think of any necro condition builds which are able to counter bunker eles

With my build they are one of the easiest opponents in wvw.

So saying that a good bunker ele beats a conditionmancer everytime is just false. It comes down to the build.

Would you mind posting your build? I can’t think of any condition build which works that well against bunker eles. So far I haven’t seen a single condition necro beating bunker eles easily tbh.

Well “easy” is relative. I’m sure everyone agrees that warriors are easy targets, but a good warrior can also put on decent pressure sometimes.
That’s the same for me with eles, but overall I have yet to meet an ele who can beat me in a straight up 1v1.

Anyway, my build

Small tip what u can afford only in w3 is run away

And while ur running, u can drop all your aoes behind u. The ele has only 300 range. Its a very underused strategy, and yes, a lot of poeple cant resist and actualy do follow u.

Most eles will run away from you if u manage to presure them a lot.
For this reason i found that the more CC u have the better.

And i think this is the key as to why flow can kill eles “easily”.

Sigil of Paralyzation, Terror trait with Doom, reaper’s mark, golem charge, WH daze and Corrupt Boon can put a lot of presure on the enemy in a short amount of time which can lead to victory with a little luck and if used at the right time.

I was able to kill bunker eles with 20/30/20/0/0 and 0/30/10/0/30 or similar builds as long as i had these CCs available, but i would never say i could do it easily. This happened mostly in tPvP though where they had to stay and fight to keep the point for their team. In WvW they usually managed to use a cantrip or RTL to get away before i could finish them off.

As a Condimancer and especially specced in extended terror, you shouldn’t find fighting eles hard. Unless you’re out of LF, you have pretty big advantage via smart play. Bunker eles are Necro’s favourite ones, good ones will stay on feet for a while, but 1vs.1-2 you kill them anyway . They’re pain in bigger group as a support, however most of them will try to avoid Necromancers. DPS ones can make trouble if they get you in opener (initial air→fire→earth) ), but they are rather squishy outside of water. Pro tip: Bunker eles usually carry Earth Armor on their bars, which makes them free kill for a Terrormancer, so most of the times you want to wait for it to Corrupt. DPS however tend to not use this so after they switch out of water, you’re free to CB. General thing vs. DPS elems – trouble only if you’re not LF capped. Avoid Dagger 5, don’t use any skills apart from A-A if hitting water attu, put hard pressure, play offensive.

Interrupting the heal, and timing the corruption boon for when thier 50% HP buffs kick in is the best way to deal with it. Just like with any other sustain class, if you don’t effectively interrupt 1-2 heals in a row, you aren’t going to beat them.

DS3 is an easy to land interrupt, and since they cannot “safe” heal anymore, you should be able to beat them if you stop that heal.

Duel elementalists as often as you can, and it gets easier. High crit damage eles, with good sustain are still going to be nearly impossible, but if you can stop the healing, just like with trap rangers, you can do okay.

Most eles are not running Ether Renewal after the Mist Form nerf. A lot of them still run either signet of restoration, or the glyph heal.

BTW, the ICD on cleansing water is 5 secs, not 10.

Your condi necro will not beat any competent bunker ele.

He’s got cleansing wave, evasive arcana cleansing wave, condition removal from water attunement (and since water attunement applies regen with elemental harmony from arcana, that’s 2 conditions removed just by switching to water attunement).

He’s got Armor of earth, cleansing fire (3 condis removed, does burning on you), and lightning flash.

So he pretty much negates any pressure you can do on him while he’s putting burning on you and smacking you with burning speed/lightning whip, circle of earth.

You can return burning, but he’ll wipe it off, and he’s got more than one source of burning to put on you while he pummels you.

He’s also got 2 40 sec cd cc’s while at best cc breaker you’ve got is a 45 sec traited one, or 60 sec baseline spectral walk.

You’ve got no way to recover your hp from sustained damage outside your heal and a mediocre regen boon. He’s got constant hp recovery from more sources than just regen.

He’ll simply outlast you and shut down your pressure while you’ve got little means to shut down his. He won’t blow armor of earth until you’ve used corrupt boon, and he can cleanse the fear off himself with smart water attunement swap.

A ele spec’d more towards bunker is usually a stalemate. In the end they will end up beating you but it it going to be such a long fight that it will be decided by who gets help first (Most just run away after awhile in WvW). The squishier ele’s can be beaten with smart use of DS#3 to bait stunbreakers/cleanses early then waiting to CB as they leave water and chain your rotation inbetween fears. With low base hp an ele can be melted from ~60% hp if you hit everything as fast as possible. The biggest factor to win these fights is pay attention to both YOURS and HIS swap timers. Being able to do a full staff rotation>immediate swap just as they leave water can make the fight much easier. Also don’t be afraid to use CB to just wipe might stacks if they get it above 15. That is a ton of power/condi dmg to let them hold onto.