First off, Axe and Warhorn have the worst synergy ever.
Second, I don’t know what you mean by “spectral build”. Is it something in line of SAttunement + CDR and 3 spectral utilities? Or what? I do play Power Necro, but using just Spectral Armor with no supporting traits doesn’t qualify I guess.
Third, Axe is a burst rotation/Near to Death build weapon, Staff has inherit poison+chill and is better for less bursty gameplay.
“Spectral build” is typically any build using 2 or more Spectrals and at least one trait for them. By far the best life force generation of any builds Necros have.
As far as Axe/Warhorn, it’s the best kiting you can get from a Power build, so I wouldn’t say it’s without good synergy.
Not a HUGE difference so people play what they prefer. Some pros and cons:
Axe: Deathly claws is a hard hitting skill from 600 range when traited. Unholy feast is good only if you hit 3+ opponents. AA is pretty bad. Synergizes with WH isnt terrible but its better with a focus due to range and chill yhst helps you kite. I tend to only take it if i also have 6 second cooldown on death shroud since dps of axe isnt sustainable.
Dagger: Decent cleave witj AA. AA can be very useful in some pvp maps like khylo to ge erate life force by hitting crates walls and windows or even treb. Good to cleave downed bodies as well. Life siphon is pretty useless unless heavily traited to siphoning. You can still cast it while closing gaps or running away if other skills are on cooldown. Skill 3 immob is vital for setting up burst with your teammates. It can be used to combo like 5 skils one after another and gets better with fear chains here and there.
I take dagger for pvp and axe when im a backliner in WvW. Axe is only better in PvE if you need to kite a single target. But yeah preference :P
axe you can burst someone down no matter how mobile they are dagger your opponent can kite you and avoid damage. dagger has more consistent damage axe is more of a bait out dodges stack vulnerability then hit 2 (and let go of the mouse ;s) for 7k damage
i have found axe better to use after discovering i was the problem with it lol still wish the position of your opponent didn’t matter tho.. because i can stay out of the danger area and kite my opponent while still doing damage and the vulnerability stacking really helps your team down that pesky bunker
I prefer dagger over axe becaue of the auto attack since it received the buff. Life siphon is underrated and a good skill especially against mesmers and thieves if you time it in a way that you start casting it right before they go into stealth. And dark pact + locust swarm + auto attack is a really good burst/life force generation combo. So dagger has 3 good skills while axe “only” has ghastly claws.
If you want to kite, Staff or Shroud with LB do the job much better for Power Necro, imo. Axe is 600-900 range and A/Wh combo:
-has 2 skills with AoE cripple. May be nice, but most meta builds don’t care that much about cripples. To have the second souce of cripple, you have to be in melee contact range what isn’t that amazing. Doesn’t work for me. Locust Swarm is awesome dps/LF gen increase in melee though, procs on clones, pets, eats blinds and blocks, procs tons of Bleeds from Barbed Precision.
-you have cone daze. But it’s easier to land it in melee range, allows you to do more LF gain/damage with dagger against tough opponents like Medi Gaurd.
Wail doesn’t help Axe that much. You can kite, interrupt. But Axe isn’t the main set you go for in tPvP, you don’t want to camp it. It’s aggressive damage follow-up. Dagger does the job much better.
^My opinion, based on 500 hours as an Axe/Dagger+Dagger/Wh power Necro, though
War horn’s trait improvement is in Curses so if you need LS and daze for more than occasional use, i.e., a core skill, your power build will need to compromise. WH supports a condition damage build better than power but is still good, regardless.
War horn’s trait improvement is in Curses so if you need LS and daze for more than occasional use, i.e., a core skill, your power build will need to compromise. WH supports a condition damage build better than power but is still good, regardless.
It’s still precision….. teaching people to take traits based on what lines they are in is bad practice. You take the trait if you want the trait. Not for whatever trait line it’s in.
Attention Moderators I am not:
S P E E D starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD crappy d/D ele NA
Putting 4 in Curses means you cannot have 2 grandmasters in other trait lines. It is a trade, no more and no less.
Eh, Path of Corruption still works fine regardless of Power/Condition Failing that, grab another Master or Adept trait. Curses has enough good choices.
This thread is about SPECTRAL power necro. This usually means you go into curses to get spectral attunement because this is where the power of that build comes from: 9 seconds of life force regeneration from spectral armor on a 40 second cooldown with spectral mastery which is also a must have on SPECTRAL builds. And that even twice with last gasp.
WH supports a condition damage build better than power but is still good, regardless.
This is simply wrong. Recall that power builds rely on rather high crit chance and make use of sigil of fire/air.
War horn’s trait improvement is in Curses so if you need LS and daze for more than occasional use, i.e., a core skill, your power build will need to compromise. WH supports a condition damage build better than power but is still good, regardless.
It’s still precision….. teaching people to take traits based on what lines they are in is bad practice. You take the trait if you want the trait. Not for whatever trait line it’s in.
The stats a trait line gives are extremely relevant to the build’s performance. Advising people not to pay attention to the stats they are getting out of a trait line is really bad. The 300 stats you get from going 6 in a line are half as much as the minor stats on an amulet.
Necros don’t have reflects, invulns, vigor, blocks,
extra dodges, real stability, mobility skills,
burst skills, sustain, or good support. GG ANET.
War horn’s trait improvement is in Curses so if you need LS and daze for more than occasional use, i.e., a core skill, your power build will need to compromise. WH supports a condition damage build better than power but is still good, regardless.
It’s still precision….. teaching people to take traits based on what lines they are in is bad practice. You take the trait if you want the trait. Not for whatever trait line it’s in.
The stats a trait line gives are extremely relevant to the build’s performance. Advising people not to pay attention to the stats they are getting out of a trait line is really bad. The 300 stats you get from going 6 in a line are half as much as the minor stats on an amulet.
If it helps it helps. But I would never advise someone to go into a trait line for stats. Or against a trait line because of its stats. Traits are more important. The stats are nowhere near as relevant as the traits.
Attention Moderators I am not:
S P E E D starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD crappy d/D ele NA
Weigh what stats and traits will do for you in a realistic manner.
Curses, I have learned over the years, has always been something of a tease. Condition damage helps bleeding, burning, and confusion but bleeding implies using a scepter for bleed stacking and up-time. The rest of the weapons do not have enough of an average bleed stack to affect dps very much. The curses line also does nothing for blind, chill, vulnerability, and weakness but Spite improves both damage and condition duration. If you are not running scepter, Terror is good but it does not really add condition damage. Instead, it adds damage based on the number of conditions on a target but is not really tied to the condition damage stat other than being in Curses.
The sad fact is that, except for scepter, Necromancer is really geared for power builds with both raw damage and condition duration in the same line. Neither axe nor dagger benefit from condition damage and staff is more of a utility weapon unable to stack anything.
That is why I am somewhat jaded over the whole stats thing. Choose the traits you need for their utility and synergy with your build and let the stats fall wherever but remember the Spite line rewards every build. Most trait lines are pickier than that.
If u can deal with the “range” issue Dagger mainhand is far superior to Axe:
you have a better AA that gives more LF and higher dmg and Cleave
you have a channeled ability that does less dmg but heals you for 3k+ and most important DOSENT get interupted by the slighest breeze
you got a 4sec+ Immob that does kitten good dmg aswell
Since no1 in there right mind takes Axe Training over Chill of Death there even less point in takeing Axe, as I said its a “range” -issue to get over. I think Dagger/Dagger is our best set.
Underjordens Furste 80 Necro Piken-server
Servant of Dhuum
I myself love me some dagger focus. Sure the range on the focus is long compared to the dagger. However if you get off a reapers touch right in someones face. They will die. That skill hits so hard it’s awesome.
I also run Dagger Focus as I prefer the regen and bouncing reaper’s touch. The boon removal on shivers is also nice in the rare event I actually land the skill. I honestly don’t understand why so many Necro skills are on such long cooldoowns.
The only time I really run dagger off-hand is when I’m also running Chilling Darkness which is usually in a zerg scenario if I run triple well.
Weigh what stats and traits will do for you in a realistic manner.
Curses, I have learned over the years, has always been something of a tease. Condition damage helps bleeding, burning, and confusion but bleeding implies using a scepter for bleed stacking and up-time. The rest of the weapons do not have enough of an average bleed stack to affect dps very much. The curses line also does nothing for blind, chill, vulnerability, and weakness but Spite improves both damage and condition duration. If you are not running scepter, Terror is good but it does not really add condition damage. Instead, it adds damage based on the number of conditions on a target but is not really tied to the condition damage stat other than being in Curses.
The sad fact is that, except for scepter, Necromancer is really geared for power builds with both raw damage and condition duration in the same line. Neither axe nor dagger benefit from condition damage and staff is more of a utility weapon unable to stack anything.
That is why I am somewhat jaded over the whole stats thing. Choose the traits you need for their utility and synergy with your build and let the stats fall wherever but remember the Spite line rewards every build. Most trait lines are pickier than that.
Since when does precision not reward power builds…..
Attention Moderators I am not
S P E E D Starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD awful d/D ele NA
I like the axe/focus too, but more for utility; building up some quick lifeforce(#2), aoe snare/tags for bags(#3), regen/lifeforce (#4) and debuff (#5) so I guess I look at it as the ultimate tool kit and do most dps-ing with the staff or shroud. Dagger doesnt work for me… have to get too close and not too concerned about individual targets in wvw.
With rune of the pack all you need is the spectral mastery (soul reaping adept trait) for full uptime on swiftness with spectral walk. IMO spectral attunement (curses mastery trait) not that great for the commitment level in the traitline, so if you dont like curses not that big a deal, dont take it and get your precision elsewhere.
The last may be better on condition builds, but it is certainly still good on Power. Regardless, that’s just under half the traits in the line that are good for Power builds. Remove the useless traits in the line (Withering Precision, Toxic Landing) and we’re doing even better.
The last may be better on condition builds, but it is certainly still good on Power. Regardless, that’s just under half the traits in the line that are good for Power builds. Remove the useless traits in the line (Withering Precision, Toxic Landing) and we’re doing even better.
Furious Demise and Target the Weak are also VERY GOOD – minor traits I know
The last may be better on condition builds, but it is certainly still good on Power. Regardless, that’s just under half the traits in the line that are good for Power builds. Remove the useless traits in the line (Withering Precision, Toxic Landing) and we’re doing even better.
Furious Demise and Target the Weak are also VERY GOOD – minor traits I know
Yeah, I was only bringing up the Majors. Mentioning those, now we have exactly half of the traits in the line being good for Power builds.
Since when does precision not reward power builds…..
You can get precision from armor, weapons, trinkets, food, and Soul Reaping. I am not saying the precision in Curses does not have value, just that I typically allocate trait points for their utility and make the rest of the build compensate. You can easily forego points in Curses and just wear Assassin’s gear for precision while dumping most points into Spite and Soul Reaping if you still want to crit a lot.
have fun standing amongst all that aoe from ele then with your dagger I dono I just seem to be top player (usually 200+ points per game) and actually be usefull once I started using axe over dagger it just works for me and I find it easy to kite other necros using dagger warhorn or I could just be against really really really bad players
as for axe being interrupted by a slight breeze.. if they run towards you let go of the right mouse button and you follow them otherwise it will stop working
Since when does precision not reward power builds…..
You can get precision from armor, weapons, trinkets, food, and Soul Reaping. I am not saying the precision in Curses does not have value, just that I typically allocate trait points for their utility and make the rest of the build compensate. You can easily forego points in Curses and just wear Assassin’s gear for precision while dumping most points into Spite and Soul Reaping if you still want to crit a lot.
That wasn’t my point….. do you think your telling me something I don’t know?
also I’m almost never talking about pve when I discuss builds as I’m under the impression that’s the one time where one build does reign supreme. And as far as wvw goes specializations for different situations is ok… Not sure where your hatred of curses is coming from as its minors and majors all seem to work quite well with either condi or power builds or even a condi power hybrid. wish the same could be said for death magic and blood magic.
As far as allocating trait points for utility…. do you mean you allocate trait points for TRAITS like I said is what you should do quite a few posts ago? Or do you mean you allocate points for the stats…. (if you are a strictly wvw player you may have these options as min maxing is much easier to do) since I play all game modes I don’t always have the option. However I do have a few very specific wvw and gvg builds but I allocate points only for the traits I don’t give two kittens about what bonuses I’m getting for going into a trait line.
Attention Moderators I am not
S P E E D Starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD awful d/D ele NA
DAGGER/FOCUS FOR LYFE!!!
Favorite weapon set in da game.
Learn it. Love it.
Dark Pact > WoSuffering > RTouch > 2x dagger AA with 6/2/0/0/6 = pure awesomeness aka. Kill (#)-(#)
One trick pony.
…That still works 50% of the time because people don’t see it coming or don’t expect it becauase power necro is pretty rare. (at least in my PvP games)
Just tested it in the Mists at golems. Same gear and build: Berserker amulet, Pack runes, Air/Accuracy sigils. 6-2-0-0-6 build, Axe training trait taken.
DPS of axe in 1.5 times lower than dagger’s DPS:
* heavy golem died in 13-15 seconds with axe#1 vs 9-10 with dagger#1
but if I using axe #1 and #2 axe’s DPS highly increases: Heavy golem dies in 11-12 seconds.
* Light golem died in 8 sec with axe#1 vs 5 sec with dagger#1
And in 6-7 seconds if use axe #1 and #2 In all tests using dagger#2 leads to lowering DPS by 20-30%.
Also, in my test I’ve tested Life Blast. It has the same DPS as dagger#1 and even a bit lower! Yes, with stacking might and vuln at the every hit and with 100% crit.rate
Just to comparison:
Power ranger, 6-5-3-0-0 build, berserker, Ranger runes, Air/accuracy sigils. Black Widow spider as pet.
* LB#1
Heavy golem: 13 sec with passive pet and 10 with active pet
* LB #1 and #2
Heavy golem: 11-12 sec (pet passive) vs 8-9 (pet active)
#SAVEDONBASS from Ukraine!
Seafarer’s Rest (EU): Liicher (Engi), Lii Cher (Warrior), Swf (Elem),
Licharr (Guard), Lich Eir (Ranger), Alt Fh (Thief). Lii Cherr (Mesm), S Wf (Necr)
One thing you must remember when comparing axe to dagger dps is how much are you able to put out in an actual fight? Axe has further range, so you might be able to get out more dps with axe if you can’t get into the fight.
I prefer dagger myself, but I also like a little more utility in the power build. I usually run 4/4/0/0/6. Sure it is a little less dps, but I’m able to survive better, and I do more damage alive than dead.
One thing you must remember when comparing axe to dagger dps is how much are you able to put out in an actual fight? Axe has further range, so you might be able to get out more dps with axe if you can’t get into the fight.
Agree, but I think this is pretty obvious
But dagger able to hit 2 targets in wide area: something like 180 degree in front of you. And Life Blast piercing up to 5 targets, if I’m not wrong.
But in raw DPS to single target dagger at the top with no any argue.
I prefer dagger myself, but I also like a little more utility in the power build. I usually run 4/4/0/0/6. Sure it is a little less dps, but I’m able to survive better, and I do more damage alive than dead.
Axe and warhorn I like just because of all the utility. My main damage comes from my LB, axe 2, and lich. But I also run a strange power build so I’m probably not the best one to consult on cookie cutter anything.
I don’t think you really need to ask in this instance. You just choose whatever you feel is more comfortable.
P.S. I run 6 points in death magic on my power DS build and have gone toe to toe and won vs plenty of 6/2/0/0/6 builds and other variants.
Right nw I play Dagger, but for the longest time I played Axe.
You are taking axe for the range, and so it is a completely different play style. More like a traditional mid liner, less like a thief.
Axe 2 and axe 3 have longish cool downs, so get used to weapon swapping. Axe/Staff is a weapon swapping nightmare. DPS DPS, Condi Cc bomb from staff, DPS DPS.
Since you are kiting so much, war horn isn’t a necessity, and you can take offhand dagger. The point covering weakness and condition transfer are really nice. What kills me mostly on any necromancer build is immobilize spam, and an extra condion remove is always nice.
. Personally, I don’t like Staff on my Power build. It has no synergy for me.