Guild Wars 2

I had this feeling that considering the pace of the game and that the cast time/animation of this skill and some others has become a bit long.

I always try and hold out as long as possible before using the heal with a still considerate health pool but lately i tended to notice activating at 1/2 hp is necessary considering the burst damage other professions do usually make me lose that amount of hp whilst im casting CC.

Anyone else have the feeling this skill is very slugginsh considering the quickness that other professions can burst with?

The cast time is a bit long but the skill is ridicously strong so a good trade off.

Burst damage is used so you can prevent the enemy from reacting in time, so I don’t see why Consume Conditions (clearly good against condition damage, not burst) should counter that.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

Anyone else have the feeling this skill is very slugginsh considering the quickness that other professions can burst with?

I agree, but I think it’s supposed to be this way. A good opponent will interrupt your heal if he gets the chance, there’s nothing strange or unfair about it.

Tim.6450:

The cast time is a bit long but the skill is ridicously strong so a good trade off.

The heal is not strong at all.
The full cleanse is good, but considering the necro’s high hp pool and lack of other sources of healing: it is waaaay weaker than it should be.

I have regularly healed for over 10k with the skill, which is pretty significant considering it also fully wipes conditions off you, preventing a lot of extra damage as well. It is an amazing healing skill.

If it was an instant heal with no tell, it could not be interrupted

I think Consume Conditions is already insanely powerful. I don’t really see a problem at all with its cast time, or its base heal. When it goes off in WvW when you have 8+ conditions on you, it almost feels like part of the healing transmits through your mouse and into the player. That’s how good it feels.

Also, I’m off the school of thought that your heal should be used as early as possible without overhealing. Preferably, I like to heal, then pop into DS immediately after to give the cooldown a head start before taking HP damage. Ideally, I start using CC, I get pushed down below 50% health, my traited Spectral Armor goes off, I finish CC to get my health back up, then I go into DS with a “free” Spectral Armor to help keep LF afloat even under burst conditions.

I’m digressing. I love the heal, and I hope it doesn’t change.

I can’t believe that so many people give this skill such high praise.

Healing with 8+ conditions is lucky at best.
And even then, this heals you for what… 10-12k? That is really low, considering that:
1. your hp pool is about twice as high
2. it’s on a 25 sec cd
3. and you don’t have any other significant sources of healing (unless you are also a siphoning MM).

Don’t get me wrong, it’s still the best heal we got.
But the simple fact is: our healing sucks in general. This is of course in part due to balancing it with life force generation, but still, necros are the only class that are not able to heal back to full health once they’ve lost a critical amount until they’re out of combat again.

Even if you’re able to heal 10k every 25sec (which like I said, is lucky), you’ll have to take less than 10k damage in that amount of time to not gradually lose more and more health. If you’re up against any half decent opponent you’ll take a lot more damage than that, and the only thing you can do about it is win before your time runs out.

So again, yes the skill is good because of the cleanse. The healing on the other hand should be much higher by default, and maybe include some extra scaling with opponents like the Locust Signet’s active.

Mesmer: Power Block

Enemies of mesmers beware: they’ve learned how to mess with your skill recharge! The new trait for mesmers allows them to gain additional benefit when disrupting enemy skills. Power Block will be introduced to the Domination line and will change the recharge of an interrupted skill from 5 seconds to 10 seconds. This will not affect skills that have no recharge, but I’d imagine that stopping a necromancer from consuming conditions would surely put a nail in their coffin.

Long obvious cast animations FTW. I still find it funny that they specifically mentioned it screwing consume conditions in their fluff piece. :P

flow.6043:

I can’t believe that so many people give this skill such high praise.

Healing with 8+ conditions is lucky at best.
And even then, this heals you for what… 10-12k? That is really low, considering that:
1. your hp pool is about twice as high
2. it’s on a 25 sec cd
3. and you don’t have any other significant sources of healing (unless you are also a siphoning MM).

1~2. This is a standard for most skills take a look at shelter less then 50% on a thirty second cooldown. Healing surge at most around 10K on 30 second cooldown. Elemental glyph around 5K on a 25 second cooldown. elixer H around 5.5K on 25 second cooldown. Most healing skills swim around 50% on 25 seconds.
3. Dagger #2 1800 health on a 12 second cooldown I would call significant. You yourself said vampiric master. The new spite grand master can be considered as a significant healing.

flow.6043:

Even if you’re able to heal 10k every 25sec (which like I said, is lucky), you’ll have to take less than 10k damage in that amount of time to not gradually lose more and more health. If you’re up against any half decent opponent you’ll take a lot more damage than that, and the only thing you can do about it is win before your time runs out.

Are you saying that we are entitledd to outhealing our enemies damag with consume consitions alone?

Another thing that you have too calculate in the heal is the damage you would have taken if the conditions stil ticked.

Just because our HP is high doesn’t mean we are entitled to larger heals. If you look strictly at the amount healed, it matches the best single target heals, and outclasses many. Its ability to remove conditions is huge, because it is a full wipe on a skill that you already want to take. It gives us one of the strongest sources of condition removal in the game (plus it makes it impossible for poison to affect our heal) all packaged in an already good heal.

Tim.6450:

Are you saying that we are entitledd to outhealing our enemies damag with consume consitions alone?

Another thing that you have too calculate in the heal is the damage you would have taken if the conditions stil ticked.

These two comments are very well put, in my opinion. First, it seems like people argue that conditions are too strong because you can apply them faster than you can clear them. Are people supposed to be able to completely negate a type of damage? Similarly, are heals supposed to totally out-heal any direct damage that comes in? That notion is ridiculous.

Second, there are other benefits at play. If you have 10 stacks of bleed, and burning, suddenly you don’t have those anymore. How much damage would those have done if left unchecked? Additionally, Consume Conditions cannot be affected by poison. What other heal boasts that ability that is commonly used?

I’m not saying everyone has to like it, but it’s a really, really good heal.

I think cc is the only solid heal necromancer have.
Our blood well is only useful if you go for healing power and the traits, so it is only good in well or support builds.
Bloodfiend is in my opinion only useful in a minion build.
Signet of Vampirism is useless and needs changes or buffing.

Bhawb.7408:

Just because our HP is high doesn’t mean we are entitled to larger heals.

Actually yes, that’s exactly what it means. Especially considering that our class mechanic and defense is based on having just that, a high hp pool. No blocks, no stealth, no invulnerability, no teleports or other means to evade damage.
Based on that, our healing potential should at least double with every opponent that outnumbers us.

Tim.6450:

flow.6043:

I can’t believe that so many people give this skill such high praise.

Healing with 8+ conditions is lucky at best.
And even then, this heals you for what… 10-12k? That is really low, considering that:
1. your hp pool is about twice as high
2. it’s on a 25 sec cd
3. and you don’t have any other significant sources of healing (unless you are also a siphoning MM).

1~2. This is a standard for most skills take a look at shelter less then 50% on a thirty second cooldown. Healing surge at most around 10K on 30 second cooldown. Elemental glyph around 5K on a 25 second cooldown. elixer H around 5.5K on 25 second cooldown. Most healing skills swim around 50% on 25 seconds.
3. Dagger #2 1800 health on a 12 second cooldown I would call significant. You yourself said vampiric master. The new spite grand master can be considered as a significant healing.

What I made was an example of a best case scenario for necros.
Heal 10k for a 20k hp pool is not the norm. When I roam in WvW my health is somewhere between 25-30k depending on buffs. My base heal on CC is less than 6k, so on average I might cleanse about 2 condis which nets maybe 7k on average. So worst case scenario for me: my main heal fills just 20% of my hp pool, and that’s it for another 26.5 seconds if it doesn’t get interrupted then.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Tim.6450:

Are you saying that we are entitledd to outhealing our enemies damag with consume consitions alone?

Another thing that you have too calculate in the heal is the damage you would have taken if the conditions stil ticked.

These two comments are very well put, in my opinion. First, it seems like people argue that conditions are too strong because you can apply them faster than you can clear them. Are people supposed to be able to completely negate a type of damage? Similarly, are heals supposed to totally out-heal any direct damage that comes in? That notion is ridiculous.

Obviously it depends on the amount of damage we’re supposed to be outhealing.
Many other classes have no problem healing back full in combat from almost zero hp, in addition to having mobility skills, invulnerabilities and blocks.
Is it really that outrageous to point out our lack in healing compared to that?
Any power build lands a 15k damage spike on me at the beginning of the fight. On my engi or thief I’d have no problem to get back to full hp. On my necro: never! I need at least two main heals just to compensate for that initial burst, not to mention any other damage I’d be taking since then.

So yes, I believe we are “entitled” to having all our main heals buffed, not just CC. Plus, every source of healing should go through Death Shroud.
And we should get additional sources of healing that are more easily accessible than wasting trait points on our current vamp traits, and most importantly: they should scale with the number of our opponents.
Parasitic Contagion and Unholy Sanctuary are steps in the right direction, but it’s not enough by far.

Also, I’m off the school of thought that your heal should be used as early as possible without overhealing. Preferably, I like to heal, then pop into DS immediately after to give the cooldown a head start before taking HP damage. Ideally, I start using CC, I get pushed down below 50% health, my traited Spectral Armor goes off, I finish CC to get my health back up, then I go into DS with a “free” Spectral Armor to help keep LF afloat even under burst conditions.

Good tip , ill try it out..

The problem i have is that everyone i fight with DS powerbuilds simply dodges evades every single LB waits for DS to run out, and i let it run out to get the quick CD. i do fear just before leaving to get that extra bitof time to cast CC . but even at 3/4 Hp i simjply cast CC and get wrecked before it goes off (this is without heavy conditions on me)

Chain: Fear> Leave DS> Control my opponent (blind/fear)> blink skill(sw/fw)>cast CC> get burned down by conditions and direct damage before CC is completely casted> respawn.

I know people wait for DS to run out or try to burn that down first before using their bursts so i also consider positioning etc.
my little complaint is usuall with skills that automaticly let a player close the gap to their enemy without LoS and have instant interrupts..

iow, i position myself behind and away from an enemy with SW / FW.. i immediately get a leap on me covering 800+ range and get CC-ed within the casting time of CC.

I do agree CC is a great heal (if speced and covered with conditions you can get great healing out of it) just the fact the the damage done to you even midigated by SW or SA in the time that CC is casted (not even control skills) is so enormous and spammable that there is simply nothing to do about it.. (but dodge ^^)

^^ maybe the patch witll be something of a surprise..

Are you saying that we are entiteled to outhealing our enemies damag with consume consitions alone?

just wanted to respond on this. you are right no heal should go to full. but you are forgetting the extra heals that go with the other professions. Boons/partyheal/healing while attacking (the one heal necro’s should have but we have “Signet of bad” and not useful siphon), healing while using their professions ability, healing on crit/ healing on this that and everything…. i think that is the issue here. (besides my previous remarks )

just came out of a match with an engie having 4-5 protection /healing and power boons reapplied every strip within seconds, having a duration of 30+ seconds and minimum of 15 stacks each time ^^

Blood Fiend is absolutely terrible. The passive heal is virtually non-existent and the active heal is not high enough to matter either. Well of Blood is highly situational, as are wells in general. Haven’t used Signet of Vampirism yet but it seems lackluster as well. Consume Conditions is the only decent heal necros have.

Sundar.1735:

Blood Fiend is absolutely terrible. The passive heal is virtually non-existent and the active heal is not high enough to matter either. Well of Blood is highly situational, as are wells in general. Haven’t used Signet of Vampirism yet but it seems lackluster as well. Consume Conditions is the only decent heal necros have.

Blood Fiend is significantly better since it was buffed. It used to heal less and die much easier. BF’s use is viable with a full MM build but not with a partial build.

p.s.
Blood Fiend does not have condition management so I do not use it in serious fights without traiting for condi-removal.

BF’s only real issue is the lack of other traits/mechanics to be used alongside it outside of a full MM build. If we had other strong condition removal, and ways to mitigate burst, I’d use him more. But as it stands, the loss of CC’s removal is really hard, and the loss of a way to heal a lot right away (when I can’t avoid burst well), seals the deal in anything but an MM build that has so much sustained healing and condition removal that it covers up for him.

flow.6043:

Heal 10k for a 20k hp pool is not the norm.

^ My power ranger(please no jokes) is exactly that, I’m always short on healing.

For some reason, when I play my power necro(axe/dagger & staff) my health almost never goes under 25% unless I die. DS effectively shortens your heal cd by 10 seconds.

2nd best heal in game:)

Consume Conditions is one of the best heals in the game, making it any stronger is unbalanced.
The problem with the Necro is two-fold, DeathShroud stops healing and almost all our supporting heals are tied into life siphon which has pitiful healing ratios.

So while other professions have their main heal and can trait/utility into multiple support heals, we’re left with almost singularly our main heal to restore health to our massive HP pool. That’s a big part of the reason that most Necros lose protracted engagements.

Shower thoughts: Imagine if, instead of Signet of Vampirism, we got a healing skill that interacted with Death Shroud? Like…

“Restore health, gaining additional health depending on how (empty/full) your life force is at time of cast. Generates 20% life force and activates Death Shroud immediately after healing regardless of cooldown status.”

It’s ~dynamic~ or whatever the buzzword for bad ideas these days is.

Furienify, I think a good name for your suggested skill is Unholy Cooter.

Umad.7528:

2nd best heal in game:)

Whats the best one?

Back to Topic: CC is ok, but i would really like to have a heal like healing surge. Something like the less lf you have the more it heals.

Imho, it’s better to heal at <80% health than >80% health. If you heal early your cooldown should be up by the time you need to use it again which will allow you to last longer in a fight given you’re not trying to facetank everything. I try to either heal early on or if my opponent is a condition user I try only to heal when I have around 2 conditions on me to make the health return more potent.
But as for your question, yes. It is kind of slow. And the heal itself considering how much health a Necro has, is kind of bad. But the 100% condition cleanse is amazing. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve gone face first in to an enemy zerg in Plague form, gotten 239847923846 conditions stacked on me and dropped to 10% of my health, come out of Plague popped Consume Conditions and gone back to <90%. Although the heal is kind of crap without conditions on you, with conditions is freaking awesome. Which is the exact purpose of the heal so, just use it wisely.

flow.6043:

Actually yes, that’s exactly what it means. Especially considering that our class mechanic and defense is based on having just that, a high hp pool. No blocks, no stealth, no invulnerability, no teleports or other means to evade damage.
Based on that, our healing potential should at least double with every opponent that outnumbers us.

Flesh Wurm, Spectral Walk, Dark Path = teleports.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

flow.6043:

Actually yes, that’s exactly what it means. Especially considering that our class mechanic and defense is based on having just that, a high hp pool. No blocks, no stealth, no invulnerability, no teleports or other means to evade damage.
Based on that, our healing potential should at least double with every opponent that outnumbers us.

Flesh Wurm, Spectral Walk, Dark Path = teleports.

“….or other means to evade damage”
In that context I was obviously refering to skills like Infiltrator’s Arrow. Or leap skills, something that let’s you escape a fight anyway.
Dark Path is a gap closer, Spectral Walk hardly let’s you escape a fight unless you were precasting it before jumping into the fray, and the Flesh Wurm… I know some people use it but it’s actually a severe liability.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

And the heal itself considering how much health a Necro has, is kind of bad.

Glad to see someone’s on my side of the argument though.

CC is the only necromancer heal that is not nerfed/deactivated by death shroud.

Lets not whine about one of the rare functional interactions with condi maipulation we have (with putrid mark nerf, plague signet nerf and bugs, etc).
Tho it would be nice if all heals (except Mantra of Recovery, Blood Fiend summon, Water Spirit summon and Ether Renewal for quite obvious reasons) had a universal 1s cast time, would help pvp and wvw while improving pve fluidity and consistence.

On that note why is Withdraw (thief dodge heal) without a cast time, but unusable if rooted in any way (same for corrupt boon/all fake instants) can we just add a “fake/symbolic” cast indication (like 1/4) to show that said “instants” cannot be used the same way as real instants?