Guild Wars 2

A friend who’s advice on necro I feel is good advice said that CPC is a very underrated skil and one of the best necromancer utilities.

I tried to dig up opinions on my own through searching but all I found was topics based on how weakness use to work. Then I would agree it’s not very worthwhile.

From a WvW/sPvP perspective how do you guys feel about the skill now in a condition build.

The field duration is really long so the downtime on the skill not traited is 28 seconds which isn’t bad at all. Since alot of necro utilities have long cd’s.

RIght now I am trying out 30/10/0/0/30 but a condition setup with a focus on good life pool and quick ds recharge rate so I always run spectral walk, and spectral armor. I usually run epi but I like to swap epi out from time to time but wanted to get a general idea on what people think of CPC and experiences with it post weakness buff.

I would imagine in places like sPvP where you can almost entirely cover a point with CPC, it would be entirely possible to use it if necromancers weren’t always expected to be the main condi DPS. If you had a support Necro though, I see it being potentially really strong.

WvW it isn’t good enough IMO, people can just move out of it and it will have little effect.

I was thinking about using CPC as an aoe condi cover after an epidemic. It has a dual purpose as well of creating another red ring that players almost always move out of.

I guess it comes down to using CPC after epi to cover bleed/confusion/whatever key stacks you want – or using SoS before the epi to do the same…

For WvW I wouldn’t go and say its bad but there are better options to go with. Depending on if your with a zerg or roaming other skills may be more beneficial and like Bhawb said in any small to medium sized fight people will just move out of it. (kinda the same problem with wells) For zergs, well of corruption is just better for the boon strips or darkness assuming you have Chilling Darkness.

Actually, I might try this out today to see, I think it might actually be a very strong utility to bring to big team-fights for a condition support class. So many bunker builds rely on dodging and small heals, the immense poison and weakness uptime you’d get could be worthwhile.

Though I do consider CPC an underrated skill, I would tend to agree with the assessments offered above regarding it’s lack of direct efficacy in WvWvW. Players can just move out of the ring. That said, there are instances where I feel it is useful:

1) Point control. Getting enemy players to move out of the ring may be exactly what you want. CPC, with its long duration, can fit this role nicely.

2) Large zerg-on-zerg battles. In the lag and particle effect chaos of a massive fight, a CPC ring may be easily buried. Meanwhile, it’s ticking away, undermining your enemies for 12 seconds; a respectable duration.

3) Solo or small-party camp raiding. I’ll equip CPC when soloing supply camps. Find a bottleneck, lure the NPCs, drop CPC, follow-up with Putrid Mark for an Area Weakness combo, and essentially perma-weaken the NPCs. Then finish them while shrugging off their reduced damage potential.

It is technically a ground targeted well – without having to take the trait. The only difference being it lasts 12 seconds and pulses every 2 (For a total of 5 pulses it seems), and being a poison field instead of dark or light.

Its a general meh useful skill, nothing special on the animation, not a really strong or direct effect but quite useful, probably strongest in pvp then wvwvw and least useful in pve. On any other profession it would be way stronger but necros already have good weakness and poison uptime even in power builds. Also Rad field (asura racial) is stronger what is quite weird.

It’s great in wvw if you can hide it in someone else’s red rings. Some people will just sit in the rings if they don’t think the aoe warrants moving (or if they’re getting overheals and guardian prots/cleanses) also it’s awesome for shooing people away from the gates. It’s not as useful as it once was with the new changes to weakness (not as far as a corruption skill goes anyway) because when you get self weakness you used to be able to ignore it because you were mostly only worried about crits anyway o both condi builds and hybrids, but now unless you send it back with plague signet or dagger 4 then it’s risky to bring and just sit on it. As far as pvp, I haven’t done a condi build in there in a while but back before the changes I used it on points like clocktower, where strafing room was limited. But other than that, people usually just walk away from it. In PvE though it’s still plenty strong and useful in nearly every situation. Cleansing self weakness in pve has never really been an issue.

I think it could be really good for that purpose in PvP though. I can’t imagine anyone that would be happy to sit and fight with that much weakness on them, and that gives them a very small area to fight on while still being on the point.

Andele.1306:

Also Rad field (asura racial) is stronger what is quite weird.

That’s my only real complaint about it. Racials are never supposed to be stronger than regular skills or elites. I’m surprised no one has ever seriously examined this.

First off, Hounds of Balthazar are absolutely devastating in my build, far more than any of our other elites by my testing. Granted I am hybrid, so both their scaling gets great, but they are still better than any other choice.

On to rad field. Akittens core, it is not better, but different. Rad field lasts 3 seconds longer, has 300 higher cast range, and has a 20 second longer CD, 28 seconds if CPC is traited; with a 25% uptime, and 18 seconds of both conditions inflicted without duration, assuming all ticks hit. CPC has a 30% uptime, 37.5% traited, and 15 seconds of both conditions assuming the same, but also self poisons.

CPC is strictly better if you look solely at the fields, with quite a bit better uptime. But the problem is, the 300 less range and self inflicted weakness really hurt its “real life” viability. I think they need to fix that in some way, either by making CPC cast at the higher range (meh), reducing the self weakness now that it is really hurtful, or (my favorite) increase the radius on it.

Bhawb.7408:

First off, Hounds of Balthazar are absolutely devastating in my build, far more than any of our other elites by my testing. Granted I am hybrid, so both their scaling gets great, but they are still better than any other choice.

On to rad field. Akittens core, it is not better, but different. Rad field lasts 3 seconds longer, has 300 higher cast range, and has a 20 second longer CD, 28 seconds if CPC is traited; with a 25% uptime, and 18 seconds of both conditions inflicted without duration, assuming all ticks hit. CPC has a 30% uptime, 37.5% traited, and 15 seconds of both conditions assuming the same, but also self poisons.

CPC is strictly better if you look solely at the fields, with quite a bit better uptime. But the problem is, the 300 less range and self inflicted weakness really hurt its “real life” viability. I think they need to fix that in some way, either by making CPC cast at the higher range (meh), reducing the self weakness now that it is really hurtful, or (my favorite) increase the radius on it.

HoB dont scale with the user… But they are the strongest burst pets despite their total hp being spread over the2 instead in one basket (i think we talked over this with the golems vs elementals vs fern hound vs golem vs hounds thread a while ago)

Benefits of both: cheezing field behaviour for 1 more tick pre field (so a 40 vs 47% uptime if cpc is traited), weakness on blast finishers, long range
Benefits of CPC – if you got transfer long weakness on single target, can be casted while moving, option to trait it in, higher net pre combat uptime
Benefits of Rad field – No requirement for transfer use, longer range, because of locked in animation you can prepare other skills that use character actions (that would interrupt cpc)

For short for a condi necro (with high cond duration, and long range dagger offhand) cpc is better, but in any other situation, especially power builds getting close to death, rad field is better.

I had been told they did, and I was pretty sure I had checked that before… oh well.

Bhawb.7408:

I had been told they did, and I was pretty sure I had checked that before… oh well.

They dont, but they do scale with zone level (and in some they are 81 or 83 for some reason).

Edit after test on mesmer: Seems that they count as clones, thus benefit from condition duration and damage since the clone fix patch. I know they didnt scale for jack-kitten before. Sadly their power/leap attack and normal skills still dont benefit from power and are just as tanky as before no matter what gear.

I’ve never actually thought of using CPC, since, well the general consensus appeared to be that it was just plain bad. However, after you asked about it, I thought to try it out and it seems to work quite well.
I’ve had lots of trouble with thieves, who doesn’t right? Well some of em at least, the ones that keep up blind constantly while zipping around… anyways, I wanted a defensive utility, however I don’t like most of em. Many have too long CD’s and to low uptime for it to be worth it. But I like the fact that CPC has a long duration and short enough CD. Even if people get out of it, I can still hit them with my scepter.

I wanna add that I am a pure condimancer, no power, so in essence I don’t care whether or not I have weakness on me, in fact it’s only good for me, as I can either consume it for more HP, or I can transfer it to others.

CPC isn’t terribad, I just feel that there are usually better skills.
I think that it just needs a larger radius because it’s too easy to get out of considering it’s effect.

240 Radius is alright for offensive Wells because they have powerful effects and short durations.
Standing inside a Well of Suffering or Well of Corruption for 5 seconds is much more dangerous than standing the same duration inside a CPC.

CPC has the same 240 radius and a 60 second (or 48s) cooldown but a 12 second duration.
Making it much bigger could make it very useful while also distancing it from Wells.

Adding Cripple to it might work too, but it’d probably just make condi bursts even worse.

LastDay.3524:

CPC isn’t terribad, I just feel that there are usually better skills.
I think that it just needs a larger radius because it’s too easy to get out of considering it’s effect.

240 Radius is alright for offensive Wells because they have powerful effects and short durations.
Standing inside a Well of Suffering or Well of Corruption for 5 seconds is much more dangerous than standing the same duration inside a CPC.

CPC has the same 240 radius and a 60 second (or 48s) cooldown but a 12 second duration.
Making it much bigger could make it very useful while also distancing it from Wells.

Adding Cripple to it might work too, but it’d probably just make condi bursts even worse.

CPC is 40s not traited 32s traited.

I looked at the wiki I’ll have to test to confirm. I thought it was a pulse every second.

Its a pulse every 3 seconds according to the wiki the poison and weakness is applied at creation then once every 3 seconds which is probably why the duration is so long still not bad as most conditionmancers have condi duration anyway.

CPC is actually pretty good in keep defense. People love to spam water heals over the rams and this is a great way to massively reduce the effectiveness of that tactic.

Is poison a good condition though? I haven’t used it much myself. And often in PVE I noticed other classes already applying poison on bosses, and since it doesn’t stack in intensity (only in duration), mine would seem rather redundant. As for weakness, Enfeebling Blood does that just fine.

I’ve tried using CPC in the Queen’s Pavilion. It seemed to do something to the huge mobs, but it’s hard to tell just how effective it really is in the middle of a zerg.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Is poison a good condition though? I haven’t used it much myself. And often in PVE I noticed other classes already applying poison on bosses, and since it doesn’t stack in intensity (only in duration), mine would seem rather redundant. As for weakness, Enfeebling Blood does that just fine.

I’ve tried using CPC in the Queen’s Pavilion. It seemed to do something to the huge mobs, but it’s hard to tell just how effective it really is in the middle of a zerg.

In PvE I wouldn’t say Poison is all that great I’d argue it is pretty bad in PvE.

How to beat those Zerker builds out there? Poison their kitten so they cant heal efficiently, and weaken them so they have 50% less damage output, then throw any number of others conditions (no matter if youre Zerker too) so they can erase eficiently your poison and weakness. and Done

In PvE poison is completely unimportant against most mobs, and can be massive against the bosses that heal. Especially in pug groups, the bosses that heal can extend their fights for ridiculous amounts of time if everyone isn’t in good DPS setups or if the group starts not doing well (a few people get downed). If your group isn’t bad though, its still not that important, as you can DPS the bosses down through it often enough. But still, it is vastly better in PvP where the 33% reduction in healing is massive.

Its a bad skill because power necros don’t want it, and condition necros already have numerous ways to apply both weakness and poison, so why waste the utility slot?

I am not arguing there are circumstances where it can be useful, but it doesn’t bring anything to the table in WvW, where those two effects are nearly meaningless to a zerg, and small scale fights are too mobile.

CPC vs Spectral wall – Spectral wall
CPC vs pretty much any well – Any well
CPC vs. SOS or blood is power – SOS or blood is power
CPC vs. Epidemic – lol

If I had 6 utility slots, I might consider it situationally, but for how slow the pulse is, and how meaningless circular area deny is (if they even bother to move out), I won’t use it.

I could never find a use for it myself. There are several problems with the field that makes it so I could never get any use out of it:

#1: The conditions it inflicts are slow and terminates as soon as you leave the field. Most people just casually walk out of CPC.
#2: The damaging condition it inflicts is poison. Poison doesn’t do much damage, and the necro already has many sources of poison.
#3: On condition builds, the weakness is redundant. I already have weakening shroud and enfeebling blood, and those cause weakness instantly in an AoE. This makes CPC inferior and redundant.
#4: The weakness might be useful on power builds, however the self-weakness cripples the utility. Power builds don’t have the condition transference to make use of self weakness, so it ends up being a limitation.

Because of this, CPC is on the bottom tier of the utilities. Nearly everything a necromancer can take has more use than CPC.

It may be pretty useless for power builds but it it immensely useful for many hybrids, or was until the new weakness change. It still can be if you can get your timings perfect and cleanse off that self weakness immediately, but many hybrids rely on those crits to be effective, so it’s very important to get that taken care of immediately. I will agree that the area is pretty low considering that once people walk out of it the conditions pretty much cease. As far as pve goes, poison is only ineffective for the most part when you’re running zergs. CPC can be very useful in dungeons and small group play. I once used it as a supplemental support tool in one of my support builds and a few friends and I made quite the nasty team setup using a warrior and ele as frontline tanks to ball them up while I CC’d and did my other support tricks. It was quite impressive but sadly most of the things we used have been changed not only on necro but the other classes so we can’t really run that anymore.

TL;DR CPC isn’t terribad, but it only has niche uses and isn’t appropriate for many necro builds.

its ok, I swap it in for keep defense when im not running ground target wells

for me it’s not worthy of a full time spot on my bar in any spec i run though

I wonder if they keep statistics on the usage of skills. Maybe one day they’ll review the skills that are barely used to work out why, and start improving them. I would think they’d need to do this before designing additional new skills as they open up more weapons to more classes.

Godless.1857:

I wonder if they keep statistics on the usage of skills. Maybe one day they’ll review the skills that are barely used to work out why, and start improving them. I would think they’d need to do this before designing additional new skills as they open up more weapons to more classes.

I completely agree. When they announced new skills and weapons, I rolled my eyes. If they buffed up less-used skills, it would really help out in diversity. Supposely they DO have this data too, which makes it even more confusing as to why they would not do that.

I used to use CPC with the two minion summon skill and staff 4 for maximum area weakness. It’s very useful, but I wanted something a bit more powerful and noticeable so I switched to a custom bleed/condition duration build I came up with.

That switch was a long time ago though. Back before any weakness buff(I might not of been paying too much attention to patch notes lol). It was indeed one of my favorite skills though, and if you accompany it with epidemic and the dual minion summon, you got yourself a pretty decent weakness-poison spread.

You can’t really go wrong with it imo.

For short we can agree that CPC is just another corruption skill (ususally badish for the owner/has no effect if used all the time, but a very strong tool under the right conditions).

Makes life really hard for guardians in pvp, always has (except on graveyard. kitten graveyard). The problem is like Rennoko said, we’re actually kind of spoiled for choice when it comes to pvp utilities. All the spectrals are good. All the corruptions are good. All the signets are good although locust is pretty fringe. Flesh wurm is good. The other minions and the wells are good in the right build. Whether minion builds are good in themselves is a separate matter.

That means it’s competing with like 10 skills for 3 slots, and doesn’t even get a look in for well or minion builds. It was always best at ruining a guardians day, but we have a couple of better options for that, so it would take a fairly unusual build for it to be slotted. Since the weakness buff it seems a bit more versatile, but I still don’t really see much of a role for it. Maybe if some kind of smiteball becomes a thing down the road somewhere. It’s not a bad play against spirit of nature or healing spring I guess? With corruption recharge you could almost match every healing spring with a CPC, and it is an ideal counter for that.

I actually think I’ll try it out in a minion hybrid build I’ve been working on, I think it could work really well with the right setup for disgusting amounts of poison/weakness.

Edit: and I agree with Mammoth. I don’t think the skill is bad on its own, it just fails to be quite good enough akittens job to warrant the slot. What are some ways to make it work better as an area denial skill?

I’ve used it numerous times in all occasions of the game, but always end up swapping it back out for other more popular skills. Maybe it’s just because i can see the detrimental effects of other skills more clearly, while the effects of CPC might actually be more devastating to my enemies than i think.

Bhawb.7408:

I actually think I’ll try it out in a minion hybrid build I’ve been working on, I think it could work really well with the right setup for disgusting amounts of poison/weakness.

Edit: and I agree with Mammoth. I don’t think the skill is bad on its own, it just fails to be quite good enough akittens job to warrant the slot. What are some ways to make it work better as an area denial skill?

Larger radius for one. Change the duration and range to match rad field at least. Personally I’d love torment to be added to it, but I know that’s over the top. They would either have to remove the poison or weakness to add that and then the skill might as well just become a totally new skill altogether. Perhaps if it could cripple for short durations while the enemy was in the field it would make it more useful. Idk I’ve thought long and hard about how to change it but every idea I think of seems to come up overpowered and that might be why they haven’t touched it yet. One last idea I had that seemed mildly feasible: since the name implies it’s a corrosive effect, it could add vulnerability as well. Other than that, I’ll have to jump back in the think tank and see what I can come up with.

What about reducing its pulse to 1-2 seconds, and then reducing the poison/weakness so the overall weakness/poison is the same, but it isn’t as forgiving to people inside, along with an increased radius (300, imo)? I feel like adding vulnerability makes it too much like WoS (same reason I don’t feel like blind/chill because of darkness), and it should remain mainly non-offensive.

Fair enough. Yeah I totally forgot about it only pulsing every 3 seconds. And yes definitely increase the radius. I think that’s a change most of us can all agree on. I still think the duration at least needs to match rad field, but I could prob live with the range being less.

I actually feel the duration is appropriate as of now because of the significantly shorter CD; with the current pulse thing, its actually only one tick less, but with a whole 20s shorter CD, so only 3 seconds less of each condition.

I think CPC should be more punishing to enemies that stay in the aoe. Currently it just pulses and reapplies poison. But if it also ticked damage on top of that from the cloud itself, it would make for a more viable and potent aoe attack. I also want CPC to have a bigger visual effect. Now it just looks like a very minor cloud. Make it a thick green fog instead, that is clearly visible. And maybe it can also apply blindness or vulnerability, like mentioned before.

CPC can catch trigger-happy condi-cleaners off guard because of the pulses. Then, it gets inconvenient to wait for a full CD on a condition remove.

I only use CPC on a corruption or well builds adding conditions with BiP right before Consume Conditions or WoP. CPC with wells is only for PvE when WoC is less useful.

Forgot to add that CPC poison field has uses in WvW essentially buffing other jobs’ ranged attacks. Dark and light from wells is less useful that way.