Guild Wars 2

Silverkey.2078:

Context

Now I won’t claim that the necro is low tier in all game mode, because this is not true. Necro is meta in WvW backline, and has an average place in competitive sPvP. But this “decent” place should not eclipsed the many problems the class has.

I don’t understand the whole point of this thread.

1. WvW: Necro is one of the 4 most important classes. It is the single largest source of damage. The class is meta.
2. PvP: Really strong right now AND has a variety of builds that are viable.
3. PvE: Is there where your concern is? If so, valid point. The issue is how to buff PvE without make WvW and PvP insanely OP. Being OP is only for eles :p

style.6173:

Silverkey.2078:

Context

Now I won’t claim that the necro is low tier in all game mode, because this is not true. Necro is meta in WvW backline, and has an average place in competitive sPvP. But this “decent” place should not eclipsed the many problems the class has.

I don’t understand the whole point of this thread.

1. WvW: Necro is one of the 4 most important classes. It is the single largest source of damage. The class is meta.
2. PvP: Really strong right now AND has a variety of builds that are viable.
3. PvE: Is there where your concern is? If so, valid point. The issue is how to buff PvE without make WvW and PvP insanely OP. Being OP is only for eles :p

1. I said so. I do think DPS of ele may be higher, but I haven’t actually compared numbers + necro corrupts boons which is very strong.
2. I wouldn’t say very strong, I would say average. As for the builds variety, I mostly see the cele signet, the old-syle power necro and minion master (yes, I think MM is at a good spot right now). All of those are different, but all use the same weapons! Necro seems to have only dagger, warhorn and staff. That is why I used the example of axe and scepter rework.
3. I agree this is where the problems are the most severe. It is not only being non-optimal, it is the discrimination that results from this. I have seen many suggestions on how to fix that without breaking PvP, my own suggestion being to use the concept of corruption (but rework them) to remove a lot of your sustain (the main reason why necro has a low DPS) to get very high damage/offensive support instead.

Finally, you may not agree with my post in the first place, but I feel very happy (and honored) that this triggered a wave of answers from Robert Gee .

I have some issue with your summary Style.

1. WvW Meta: While it’s true the Necro is part of the meta, they are only meta because of the damage on wells and nothing else. The utility the wells provide, the removal of boons, the transfer of conditions? No one cares. Give wells to someone else, like what Eles and Mesmers are getting on their specialization, and you’ll likely see Necros leaving the meta because of a lack of anything else of value from the class.

2. PVP Meta: We aren’t seeing too many truly divergent specs right now. Everyone is running a condi oriented build, often in celestial gear, with the passive Plague Signet and Plague signet equipped. Not really seeing power Necros anymore. And this passive signet build is only viable because of the large number of Elementalists still in the meta. So while the Necro is visible, their place is tenuous at best.

3. PVE: You aknowledge the issue and no one knows how to fix this problem. Can’t just increase damage by 25% across the board, but something must be done.

Personally, I’d find some way to increase well uptime. They’re powerful in WvW, but having them last longer won’t matter because everyone’s moving around so much. The same is true for PvP and the wells aren’t as large as the points. In PvE, where boss encounters are immobile hitting a stack of opponents, longer duration on wells would benefit.

So you could either make it so crits while in deathshroud reduce the cooldown on wells by X seconds or you could make it so wells have a ‘lingering presence’ (do damage for 5 seconds but the field remains for 10) and make it so each crit in shroud makes the shroud active again and increase the damaging portion by an additional 2 seconds on crit.

But that’s just some random thoughts without any real balance or effort put into it.

style.6173:

Silverkey.2078:

Context

Now I won’t claim that the necro is low tier in all game mode, because this is not true. Necro is meta in WvW backline, and has an average place in competitive sPvP. But this “decent” place should not eclipsed the many problems the class has.

I don’t understand the whole point of this thread.

1. WvW: Necro is one of the 4 most important classes. It is the single largest source of damage. The class is meta.
2. PvP: Really strong right now AND has a variety of builds that are viable.
3. PvE: Is there where your concern is? If so, valid point. The issue is how to buff PvE without make WvW and PvP insanely OP. Being OP is only for eles :p

1.They nerfed then destroyed mesmer glamour bombing so we could get a spot chrono wells are nothing to predeath glamour bombing.
2.We’re a counter class if what we build to counter is not here we are not needed that’s why I believe MM is our most potent build despite AI problems,all those specs use the same weapons and none of them cure base flaws.
3.I lost interest in that one but it’s not hard to see why we are the bottom in every category.

Tobias.8632:

Robert Gee.9246:

Regarding general silence, it’s mostly due to how busy everything is at the moment, but also due to how a company as large as ArenaNet works. I’ll see if I can explain a few things to put the situation into context.

Right now I’m waiting to get feedback from the upcoming beta weekend on Chronomancer and Reaper, but I haven’t worked on either of them specifically for several weeks. Many of the changes you’ve seen from Gamescom were locked down weeks ago in order to assure the stability of the floor demo and the upcoming beta weekend. With a game as big as Guild Wars 2 it takes a long time (and a lot of QA effort) to make sure big events like Gamescom go smoothly. My work over the last few weeks hasn’t been for Necromancer or Mesmer and is actually been for the Warrior elite specialization (which I probably can’t say anything else about). I’m also fixing bugs on live for ALL professions this week and next which has kept me pretty busy.

Now this isn’t to say that I’m not paying attention to what’s being said or what’s been said in the past. I take notes on threads I think are relevant for when I have time to work on them. I have notes on things to improve with both axe and scepter as well as a note about skills that we could add projectile blocking to (incidentally RS 2 blocks projectiles because of a suggestion I read here). These are changes I’d like to get to and see happen, but right now iteration on Reaper and Chronomancer are probably going to take priority over that once the beta finishes.

I hope that clears up a few things. I’m not really as talkative as Roy or Karl, but I’ll see if I can show up now and then to answer the occasional polite question.

I just wish the team would stop being so afraid of overbuffing necro.

When other classes get buffs, they get HUGE broken buffs that usually have to be tuned back later and end up being still extremely powerful post-buff. Necro on the other hand is lucky to get minor QoL changes, and anything that ends up being 0.5% too good gets a 20% nerf fairly quickly.

Best example of this is the downstate necro damage which got taken from 50% down to 25%. I feel like necro having huge downed damage was a good way to balance out how terrible the downed 2 skill is. Necro has a massively telegraphed and therefore easily avoidable single target fear on a long cast time. Compare that to guardian having an instant AoE knockdown, or elementalist being able to go into mist form. Those are extremely strong downstate skills, yet no one complains because they’ve just gotten used to it and expect those classes to be strong. You brought necro downstate damage in line with other classes, but you didn’t do anything about the crowd control skill being unusably terrible to balance it out.

It seems like the people in charge of balancing necro are like the only people working on balance who actually have finesse and/or are worried about overdoing it. This is really professional, but maybe it’s time to stop being cautious and just throw out some buffs without worrying too much that they might be too good. Guardian burn damage is still too good. Everything about elementalist is still too good. The people in charge of those classes seem to be fine with them being the best at everything. Maybe it’s time to try the same tactics with necromancer balance and just let them have good things for a bit.

Can I frame this and hang it on a wall?

How are necros complaining right now? Cele signet necro is one of the best builds in pvp right now and and is easily the best 1v1 build in this meta.

Photinous.4628:

How are necros complaining right now? Cele signet necro is one of the best builds in pvp right now and and is easily the best 1v1 build in this meta.

That’s like saying thief is fine because nothing can replace SB #5.

Sagat.3285:

Photinous.4628:

How are necros complaining right now? Cele signet necro is one of the best builds in pvp right now and and is easily the best 1v1 build in this meta.

That’s like saying thief is fine because nothing can replace SB #5.

I don’t understand this analogy. Are you implying that only one build is viable for necro? Because that’s certainly not true since I’ve seen many strong zerker necros, soldier necros and various Cele necros in PvP.

The fact is that Robert Gee did an incredibly good job in the necro revamp to the point of making it meta. Crying about the state of necros right now is selfish, especially when other classes such as ranger don’t even know what meta feels like.

Photinous.4628:

Sagat.3285:

Photinous.4628:

How are necros complaining right now? Cele signet necro is one of the best builds in pvp right now and and is easily the best 1v1 build in this meta.

That’s like saying thief is fine because nothing can replace SB #5.

I don’t understand this analogy. Are you implying that only one build is viable for necro? Because that’s certainly not true since I’ve seen many strong zerker necros, soldier necros and various Cele necros in PvP.

The fact is that Robert Gee did an incredibly good job in the necro revamp to the point of making it meta. Crying about the state of necros right now is selfish, especially when other classes such as ranger don’t even know what meta feels like.

First no one is crying(it might just be doom) and that’s no excuse to fix what still need to be fixed I’m not accepting the sorry state of axe because I have a decent spec,neither starting at 0LF,minions being inconsistent etc. There is nothing wrong with a player wanting needed improvements to his class(es) is what I’m implying.

Ranger is a special case Roy is enjoying himself with rev right now and you might not believe me but outside of WTS ranger can make an impact despite me ranking them below revenant.

Just because nos played cele doesn’t mean its a top build. He spent more time watching a respawn timer count down than he did playing the game.

Robert Gee.9246:

Regarding general silence, it’s mostly due to how busy everything is at the moment, but also due to how a company as large as ArenaNet works. I’ll see if I can explain a few things to put the situation into context.

Right now I’m waiting to get feedback from the upcoming beta weekend on Chronomancer and Reaper, but I haven’t worked on either of them specifically for several weeks. Many of the changes you’ve seen from Gamescom were locked down weeks ago in order to assure the stability of the floor demo and the upcoming beta weekend. With a game as big as Guild Wars 2 it takes a long time (and a lot of QA effort) to make sure big events like Gamescom go smoothly. My work over the last few weeks hasn’t been for Necromancer or Mesmer and is actually been for the Warrior elite specialization (which I probably can’t say anything else about). I’m also fixing bugs on live for ALL professions this week and next which has kept me pretty busy.

Now this isn’t to say that I’m not paying attention to what’s being said or what’s been said in the past. I take notes on threads I think are relevant for when I have time to work on them. I have notes on things to improve with both axe and scepter as well as a note about skills that we could add projectile blocking to (incidentally RS 2 blocks projectiles because of a suggestion I read here). These are changes I’d like to get to and see happen, but right now iteration on Reaper and Chronomancer are probably going to take priority over that once the beta finishes.

I hope that clears up a few things. I’m not really as talkative as Roy or Karl, but I’ll see if I can show up now and then to answer the occasional polite question.

Yes! Please, fix the bugs. There are a lot of bugs on all professions and I feel like the game is throw to the wind and no effort is made to fix them. I do know that you are all busy with the expansion, but don’t forget the game exist now. A lot of things are not viable not only because balance, but also bugs.

If you fix the currently bugs I’ll marry you.

Mikau.6920:

If you fix the currently bugs I’ll marry you.

I thought we wanted him to fix the bugs?

Dead.5829:

Mikau.6920:

If you fix the currently bugs I’ll marry you.

I thought we wanted him to fix the bugs?

:P

Dead.5829:

Mikau.6920:

If you fix the currently bugs I’ll marry you.

I thought we wanted him to fix the bugs?

so mean!!! XD

Bhawb.7408:

Just because nos played cele doesn’t mean its a top build. He spent more time watching a respawn timer count down than he did playing the game.

This was part of abjured’s plan to stall 2v1 and 3v1 fights and outrotate orng to avoid tage. When it came to 1v1s, nos was a beast in WTS and they were always forced to +1 him.

Basically, a necro’s job is to stall the enemy team as much as possible when it comes down to it. Yeah, they can hold point and rotate depending on build, but a lot of it is stalling and making the other team use more resources to take you down.

For those of you who watch Rooster Teeth stuff on YouTube, you may recognize the term “Bum Bait.” Basically, in the context of GW2, that can be applied to mean that we are hard to take out but can still do some decent damage depending on spec, and that leaves those players weakened. Which means they need a little time to recover/take the point, and alternately can open up a relatively easy kill by a teammate of yours

Sagat.3285:

Photinous.4628:

How are necros complaining right now? Cele signet necro is one of the best builds in pvp right now and and is easily the best 1v1 build in this meta.

That’s like saying thief is fine because nothing can replace SB #5.

This made me laugh more than it should have. Well played, sir. Well kittening played.

Ok, so the beta weekend happened, we gave feedback, any announcements on when to expect some announcements on changes?

Cecilia.5179:

Ok, so the beta weekend happened, we gave feedback, any announcements on when to expect some announcements on changes?

Already have. About 5.5 hours ago.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Reaper-Changes-for-Next-BWE/first#post5382776

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Cecilia.5179:

Ok, so the beta weekend happened, we gave feedback, any announcements on when to expect some announcements on changes?

Already have. About 5.5 hours ago.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Reaper-Changes-for-Next-BWE/first#post5382776

Whoops, didn’t see that

My work over the last few weeks hasn’t been for Necromancer or Mesmer and is actually been for the Warrior elite specialization (which I probably can’t say anything else about).

Not telling you how to do your job or anything but warriors desperately need a magic fairy wand (scepter) that shoots rainbows and has a visual only polymorph effect on every skill. No joke, they are lacking in that right now.

Mikau.6920:

Yes! Please, fix the bugs. There are a lot of bugs on all professions and I feel like the game is throw to the wind and no effort is made to fix them. I do know that you are all busy with the expansion, but don’t forget the game exist now. A lot of things are not viable not only because balance, but also bugs.

If you fix the currently bugs I’ll marry you.

did you honestly believe that they’d release beta and it wouldn’t have bugs, and devs don’t test the game to know if it has bugs? there is not a single mmo that doesn’t have bugs on beta. even single player games have bugs before final build/version, and majority have bugs even after the release. i’m looking at you Batman Arkham Knight