Guild Wars 2

Hello fellows necros,
I am sorry if this topic already exists, i looked at the 20st pages and found no trace…
I play a lot in sPvP and i see more and more “Cure one condition every 10secs” Utility… many professions seem to have this utility skill.. I think about Warriors, Guardians, Rangers and Elem… wtf? As a conditionmancer, as well as many necros atm, i just feel useless… especially versus elem. Currently, almost all elem i see just run boons/toughness/dispel build… and more and more Rangers, Warr, Guard use the utility i presented u.
This is quite boring….
What do you guys think about it? Seems like Anet rly hate necros and even more the ones running condition builds

Deathshroud. <—

Try to fight an elem running a boons/toughness/dispel build or any high survivability using this utlity being an conditionmancer then come again with your “Deathshroud. <—”
Btw, thx Zogyark for your constructive answer. /sarcasm off

The metagame is currently all about condition removal. This does negatively affect condition necromancers however that doesn’t mean something should be done to the meta game.

I’d wait until at least 3 months after most of the bugs are fixed before changing that around.

So Anet hates necros because every class can both apply and remove conditions? lol

I don’t know what to tell you if you thought you could just jump into PvP, blindly splash around some conditions, and find success. Learn how the other classes/builds control conditions/boons and you won’t be countered so easily.

We have one, it’s tied to minions. =p

“The metagame is currently all about condition removal” Yes, i know it My point is : so many class atm have dispel potential (healing skills consuming the conditions, skills transfering your condition to your foe, skills turning your conditions into boons etc). It is ok… but the utility skill “remove one condition every 10 secs” is ONE MORE thing, and its getting extremly boring because many professions have it… This utility is not even appropriated on Guard (i mean they rly don’t need it anyway)… and elems? They just can remove many conditions with water spec and some traits…

Just one thing, i am not whining because many prof can dispel their conditions, its just normal and quite funny. But fighting an elem running boon/thoughness/dispel build + Utility “remove one condition every 10 secs”, and a lot of elem are running this build, is just boring… and skill cannot change that if you are a conditionmancer

We place conditions at a much higher rate than ANY profession can cure them.

alanis.6094:

We place conditions at a much higher rate than ANY profession can cure them.

No? :P

Even if you place 14 blood, you know they can remove it all at once right?

Exactly :p Well someone here seems to see the pb

I wouldn’t really complain about this, you have #4 dagger skill that transfers conditions on hit, plague signet, #4 mark that transfer conditions to enemies, well that remove conditions, Remove a condition when in deathshroud death minor trait, so that’s an additional one every 10 secs, 5 secs if you have the grandmaster Soul reaping trait. Healing utility that eats all your conditions and grants you health for them. Minions that remove conditions every 10secs.

Conditions on me are the least of my worries as a Necromancer I’m usually more worried about avoiding burst damage.

Kardiamond.6952:

alanis.6094:

We place conditions at a much higher rate than ANY profession can cure them.

No? :P

Even if you place 14 blood, you know they can remove it all at once right?

Good thing we can put more than one type condition on a enemy.

Kardiamond.6952:

alanis.6094:

We place conditions at a much higher rate than ANY profession can cure them.

No? :P

Even if you place 14 blood, you know they can remove it all at once right?

If you’re placing only bleeding on a target, you’re doing it wrong. Even thieves are typically placing bleeds AND blind.

Sad thing bleeding is our only real source of DoT

@Alekto
We have lots of access to Poison, which I’d much rather have as opposed to Burning.

Confusion is nice, but its 1) very unreliable, and 2) condition Mesmer’s pay a big price in lacking many other conditions when they spec for confusion.

Alekto.8297:

Sad thing bleeding is our only real source of DoT

ummm we’ve got a good deal of poison.

you guys are aware that conditions do more than just dmg right? blind? cripple? vulnerability, chill, weakness, etc? they’re all pretty useful. well maybe not weakness. but the others are pretty useful.

the only class that gives me trouble with cleansing is Staff Ele’s that are full into Water and Arcana, but they’ll be getting a nerf in that dept.

every other class has much longer downtime on their cleanses. Removing one condition every :10 isn’t all the impressive when you consider how many conditions can be applied and fully run their course within that space of time.

edit: the real question is, where the hell are all our boons?

I dunno. 1 boon every 10? I stack bleeds, poison, and weakness like it’s going out of style. sometimes there’s a chill in there too. and sometimes vulnerability. and they all tend to get reapplied quickly, minus the vuln. which is just on my well of suffering (’cause axe is kinda ….)
any conditions they stack on me? i either eat em for HP, or transfer some with dagger4, or transfer the whole lot with staff4 (which is my fav, nothing like dumping a bunch of condis on someone while they do the same to you, they clear theirs, and then you just dump all yours onto them.. ideally after throwing BiP and corrosive poison cloud in there.. they put more on you, you eat em for HP.. you win)

I’m not a fan really of scepter for PvP. It’s too slow. I use it, usually scepter/warhorn sometimes /dagger, but mostly it’s staff. unblockable, huge marks, combo on poison fields for more weakness which is HUGE unless you’re against a condition or crit build — everything that’s not a condition or a crit does half damage? yesplz

I’m not saying the class is A-OK, and it’s a pain against some class/specs.. but i mean, heck, if all someone is doing is pulling off 1 condi every 10 seconds.. mole hill out of a mountain!

I think it WOULD be nice if we had easier access to more conditions. Still not sure how we didn’t get any burning, and so little access to chilled… but eh! maybe some day we’ll get hammers and instead of a scythe blade they’ll get a black fire thing and it’ll be a melee condition build and that would make me very happy ;]

Condition Necros are always more powerful when partnered with other classes, especially Engineers and Guardians. Our access to burning and confusion may be very limited and/or situational but that is a necessity with the bleed durations we can achieve. I just wish we had more combo options i really miss those when playing Necro.

Nuhj.8372:

Condition Necros are always more powerful when partnered with other classes, especially Engineers and Guardians. Our access to burning and confusion may be very limited and/or situational but that is a necessity with the bleed durations we can achieve. I just wish we had more combo options i really miss those when playing Necro.

I play Necro and Mesmer, and am unfortunately the only condition Mesmer that we run with. I’d be all sorts of giddy if we had another condition Mesmer that throw 8-12 stacks of confusion on a target that I could Epidemic.

We can remove 1 condition on ourselves every 5 seconds. Near to Death + Shrouded Removal.

As others have said above, Necros have a large amount of condition removal that isn’t traited. I have 3-4 ways to get conditions off of myself in my builds, some of which are weapon skills and all of which remove multiple or all conditions. Consume Conditions, Putrid Mark, Dagger 4, the list goes on. IMO, other classes need that “remove 1 condition every 10 seconds” to keep up with us.

Before I suggested a signet that passively converts 1 condition to 2 stack might (10s) every 15 secs then when activated grants 5 stack of might (20s) and cools down for 60 minutes.

imo we need more might giving skills as it goes well with either power build or condition build.

Sucks doesn’t it? You waste three CDs and using your DS to help apply that 12+ stack of bleeding (1 of 2 damage conditions necros have access to) and 1 tick from my healing signet its gone. What? the entire stack you say? Yes the entire stack. My guardian is much more scared of a condition engi then a necro. My engi can stack bleeding, burning, and confusion so that cure one condition utility isn’t really that great. yes yes you have corrupt boon but any guardian worth his weight in salt won’t blow save yourself until after you use corrupt.

Honestly, I find that its 50/50 when going up against a bunker guardian. Either their focused hard on condition removal at which point I’m not going to do much of anything, or they’re not and I’m going to bleed them dry. And to be honest, any class that goes that heavily into condition removal is going to be susceptible to burst damage, so they can still be beaten (just not necessarily by you, haha).

Between a staff and scepter/dagger, a necro can apply 7 out of the 11 potential conditions. If you don’t include fear and blind which are much shorter duration, that’s still 5 different conditions you can keep up on an enemy. Therefore, the odds of bleed being the condition that is removed is only 1/5, or once every 50 sec on average. Add in how quick it is to get that stack up to where we usually have it through scepter 1, 2, and staff 2, its really not that big of a deal even if it is taken off.

TL;DR 1 condition removal per 10 sec really isn’t that big of a deal as a condition necro.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAnYWjMaV6Zaea07JCpCWD6h71lzoe4uyhOA;T4Ag0CnoKyUkoIbRuikFtEZUyRkdEPRmRA

Cure one condition every 5 seconds… or when you crit… or when you heal… or when you use your elite… or when you kill something… or when you drop a well… or when you use your staff 4… or when you use your dagger 4

D: !

“Bad link” is bad and you should feel bad!

hackks.3687:

So Anet hates necros because every class can both apply and remove conditions? lol

I don’t know what to tell you if you thought you could just jump into PvP, blindly splash around some conditions, and find success. Learn how the other classes/builds control conditions/boons and you won’t be countered so easily.

Obviously you play no (cond.) necromancer. It takes for a pvp environment ages to build up some meaningful bleed stacks…which get so easily removed it is not even funny anymore while direct damage easily hits you instantly for 1k+. This holds true if the enemy has 2 guys with access to aoe cleansing..yaaay

Add to that that downed state removes all bleeds and it gets funny.

However, obviously it is fine for you to " just jump into PvP, blindly splash around some direct damage while ignoring conveniently all conditions".

Many people seem to be convinced that a necro’s ability to apply conditions is subpar relative to many other classes. I think its important to remember that other then the scepter’s auto-attack, almost every condition a necro applies is aoe. Throw epidemic on top of that to spread whatever bleeds you applied through scepter and the damage potential of a condition necro is through the roof.

I guess what I’m saying is don’t compare a necros damage on one target to an enemy’s single-target damage on you. Instead, compare your total damage output to that same single-target enemy and I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised.

Ground Stop.9538:

“Bad link” is bad and you should feel bad!

It’s called copy and paste. Well known issue gw2skills sometimes results in bad links.

No worries, haha. Was only joking, good sir.

Ground Stop.9538:

No worries, haha. Was only joking, good sir.

You good sir, must of passed with highest marks!

The current ability to remove conditions is not even closed balanced versus the ability to apply them.

The other pitfall of the Necromancer class is the lack of ability to effectively remove boons versus the ability to generate them.

This is fundamentally why the Necromancer class is broken. If they balanced boon/condition removal with application of conditions/boons the necromancer would be class I think it was designed to be.

I personally think that condition removal needs to be 1/2 aseffective as it currently is to be even semi close to being balanced. Having a necro get 16 bleeds+ on someone to have it wiped out in 1 second by a passive ability on a singet is absolutely game breaking for a class that depends on conditions to do a reliable amount of damage.

As I mentioned before, you can keep 5 different conditions stacked up on an enemy pretty consistently which makes it into a 1/5 chance that the passive is going to hit your bleed stack, and on the off-chance that it does get rid of your bleeds you can usually get the stack back up pretty quickly. As far as removing boons goes, I’d say necros are one of the stronger classes due to having both Corrupt Boon and Well of Corruption which not only remove boons, but convert them into conditions (I could be wrong but I think necro is the only class with the ability to use an enemies boon’s against them like this).

Ascii.9726:

Ground Stop.9538:

“Bad link” is bad and you should feel bad!

It’s called copy and paste. Well known issue gw2skills sometimes results in bad links.

For some reason this forum insists on converting / and friends into % codes.

1) We have a mark that transfers our conditions.
2) We have a pretty fast recasting heal that cures all conditions on us.
3) We can turn them into boons.
4) Can’t remember if it’s a skill or signet, but it sends all conditions to a foe as well.
5) If your DS is full DS till you they go away.
6) You can spec so your minions take conditions.

I think we are pretty dam well off compared to some other classes. Do you realize in a big fight how many conditions one can get in 10sec?

Considering how imperative condition removal is in PvP even when people don’t run dedicated condition builds I find it hilarious that there is still talk about the “metagame” in this context. Condition removal is never going to go out of “meta”.

Of course it will not. It does not help though that Gourds, Mesmers and especially Elementalists can provide really good AoE removal while also being wildly popular for several other reasons. Should bunkers lose teeth to the nerfbat anytime soon things could get a lot more interesting again.

Dariroch.6482

The current ability to remove conditions is not even closed balanced versus the ability to apply them.

The other pitfall of the Necromancer class is the lack of ability to effectively remove boons versus the ability to generate them.

This is fundamentally why the Necromancer class is broken. If they balanced boon/condition removal with application of conditions/boons the necromancer would be class I think it was designed to be.

I personally think that condition removal needs to be 1/2 aseffective as it currently is to be even semi close to being balanced. Having a necro get 16 bleeds+ on someone to have it wiped out in 1 second by a passive ability on a singet is absolutely game breaking for a class that depends on conditions to do a reliable amount of damage.

Maybe 1/2 is a lil exagerated…
Anyway, to remind you my point : im not whining about the utility that removes 1 conditions every 10 secs… i’m just saying that MANY classes have this utility (Anet obviously lack of imagination)… some of these classes don’t even need this utility. I think about elem running boons/toughness/dispel build. Such an elem is a pain for all condition spec classes… As Ground Stop said it, it just not funny at all and it requires ABSOLUTELY NO SKILL to counter condition specs… Ok condition removal skills is part of GW2, many classes have utility which transfer your conditions into a foe, turning your conditions into boons, or even consuming your conditions to heal you… My point is this utility “Remove 1 condition every 10secs” is like “gimme your conditions, please stack up your bleeds, you are a conditionmancer you can’t burst me… so my utility will remove many of your conditions!!! xaoxaoxaoxao”

All others skills removing conditions are ok… this utility is just a joke. Rangers, Guardians, Elem, Warr have it… add them some toughness… add Elems many HoTs and aoe dispel effects… then you have a broken PvP

Regards

While necromancers are moving conditions around most of the tick durations of the conditions are allready used up -

while everyone else is hammering real dammage ontop of the conditions

a necro is just fapping about with its condition movment

conditions are allways inferior to dirrect dammage in pvp because most cases the conditions will be wiped

think im wrong? how many times does your 15 stack of bleeds just dissapear on downstate now you gotta start restacking conditions -

Indeed. The damage reported on a condition tooltip is what you can expect done once the duration has run out. In comparison the direct damage is done the moment the attack animation completes playing.

I find it interesting how the tone of this thread has shifted from conditions being useless because half of the professions get passive condition removal (leading to you doing no damage), to conditions being useless because the conditions are always fully stacked (also leading to you doing no damage). I’m not trying to say anyone is wrong, in fact I find the fact that both sides can be right depending upon the situation to be what really makes the dichotomy interesting.

yep. PvP have the always removed issue, whil PvE have the maxed stack issue.