Guild Wars 2

But seriously, anything, remove DS if it means we will do proper damage. Necromancers should be in the top 10 currently being looked at issues.

I am glad you guys don’t make quick decisions and are taking your time, but seriously EVERY other class can routinely hit you for good damage, yet we are given what they should have just given Guardian…another HP bar…and crap damage.

Some people say Necros are ok, but no one will tell you they don’t need SOME love.

I don’t even know what to say when I am playing mine.

I love him too much to give Necro up, but seriously Anet….it’s time for a Necro love patch….

They aren’t unplayable, but at the same time…it’s like they just need one or two things or some sort of damage option or just increased condition damage across the board. I dunno, why the heck are so many classes given what we do in a better form anyways?

Who was in charge of balancing from the beginning? You are telling me they didn’t notice we are forced into condition builds while other classes can apply conditions the same if not better?

Give us some kind of explosion when the condition ends, or an explosion if the condition is removed.

JUST PLEASE DO SOMETHING I am gonna go NUTS here Anet.

They’re not interested in conditions, Jon Peters said conditions builds are fine. He’s interested in buffing power builds (even at the expense of conditions).

And the BiP change is your power build quick fix. Be sure to email them a thank you.

That’s just a kitten shame, seriously. You can use every single skill available as a necro and still end up dying majority of the time.

Hell I have gotten the jump on someone afk and still I don’t have the damage output to kill them before they come back.

This is ridiculous.

Sure there are times I have won, but seriously I just wear people down while other people reap the benefits. We have no kitten finishing power!

Please for the love of god do not remove death shroud.

All four abilities have their place and there is alot of hidden synergy you dont see at the surface but you learn as you continue to play.

Necro could use some work in the traits tree, yes. But to say death shroud needs to be removed is simply INSANE.

I didn’t say it NEEDED to be removed, I am saying I would trade mine for proper damage.

The first skill is damage fail to see the hidden synergy…

Don’t pretend you aren’t hitting F1 and mashing 4 like the rest of us

The fear on DS is cool when the fear from staff is down. Useful for getting people off a ram or something at times. Dark path would be amazing to combo with some of the closer ranged weapons we weirdly are forced into using…but still I dislike throwing even a tanky char like this into melee as after I press 3 buttons I have nothing to use. Then yeah the MIGHTY Life Transfer. That skill is awesome no complaints.

But I guess my point is, we shouldn’t have to come down to using elite skills and utility skills to do anything. DS is just a in-between filler for when staff is completely down. It has other uses but MAJORITY of the time it’s a filler because you have absolutely nothing off cooldown.

If they added 1200 range to some of the other weapons, I wouldn’t have made this thread. Guardians are the only other peeps in this boat of having to figure out how they are going to get closer than every other class to do ANY damage. They still get great other skills though….

There is a reason 90% of people are running Staff and Scepter/Dagger there simply just is NO other option.

“Don’t pretend you aren’t hitting F1 and mashing 4 like the rest of us”

Sigh

4 is actually my least used DS ability. I am a support/tank speced well necromancer. I often use dark path to catch up to someone, dodge in front and fear them back into my group. Sometimes I use dark path to get in the middle of an enemy group and drop my bombs (wells). The fear is great for stopping people trying to finish my teammates and to stop enemies from reviving. I use a dagger/focus and staff, so dark path is great for getting back in melee range to pound their face after building up stacks of might shooting them with death blast. I use ability 4 mainly for healing my group, not as a damage dealer.

There are many more uses that I can think of. Just because all you mainly do is spam 4 doesn’t mean that is all everyone does. Death shroud is a second HP pool for us, so I stack toughness / use protection traits to maximize the strengths my class has. I often win 1v1s purely through attrition. I have enough CC to stop my enemy from ever escaping as well for all the people complaining about that.

Nobody argues DS is pretty good on a power spec. The problem is that it is really lame for a condition spec, which is the most viable spec and certainly a big part of the class.

You know what…I will give it a try Punny. I am going to play an hour like a warr/thief with extra HP and skills of DS, but seeing as so many said it pretty much still isn’t good not getting my hopes up…well see.

@Sundial

You aren’t going to Dark Path to someone and do anything in fights like 10v10 and more. Range is 900…You are just going to be seen and focused down and then limp away alternating between DS and whatever you have to stay alive. Sure in 1v1 you can own anything. My point isn’t really 1v1 related. Thief should really be limited to being best at 1v1 in terms of “generic assassin lore” however they have plenty of options when the fight gets bigger.

Add invisibility to DS Anet. You know you want to, so I can be a Voodoo Shaman ASSASSIN!

Back on track:

I mean for the SAME effort put into playing your necro, you would have probably killed 4-5 people on any other class. We have to basically matrix bend over backwards to get ANYTHING done.

i dont prefer it though but if u really want dmg that’s good way

Snowgoons.6349:

You know what…I will give it a try Punny. I am going to play an hour like a warr/thief with extra HP and skills of DS, but seeing as so many said it pretty much still isn’t good not getting my hopes up…well see.

What part of the game do you find Necro to be lackluster in? Because while I find necro to absolutely shine in WvW and PvE, it is rather lackluster besides conditions in sPvP for a number of other reasons.

Yukishiro.8792:

Nobody argues DS is pretty good on a power spec. The problem is that it is really lame for a condition spec, which is the most viable spec and certainly a big part of the class.

I disagree. The only problem with DS for a condition spec is building LF is a real pain. Other than that its fine. Even 4 is cool. Aoe channel that can crit multiple times giving the ability proc two different Bleed on crit effects, good times.

Only talking about spvp/tpvp

@Snowgoons:

Thats funny, because I do that all the time to groups of 10+ people and survive thanks to protection + well of blinding. It creates a window where my group can push in and decimate their group because a good chunk of them can’t fight back and usually dont see it coming especially if they are defending a supply camp.

I am almost NEVER solo in 1v1 situations, I am built for supporting my group in ways besides DPS. Most fights for me I am fighting 5+ enemies.

Sounds like you’re zerging around.

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Yukishiro.8792:

Nobody argues DS is pretty good on a power spec. The problem is that it is really lame for a condition spec, which is the most viable spec and certainly a big part of the class.

I disagree. The only problem with DS for a condition spec is building LF is a real pain. Other than that its fine. Even 4 is cool. Aoe channel that can crit multiple times giving the ability proc two different Bleed on crit effects, good times.

Only talking about spvp/tpvp

LF is very hard to build with condition spec and 1 is complete junk. Meaning there is never any justification for staying in DS more than 3ish seconds. Therefore making it rather lame.

Dibrom.6408:

Sounds like you’re zerging around.

My average group size is 5-10 guys. Hardly a zerg, but we do often fight zergs and I don’t use the same tactics against groups of 20+ people because it is suicide. When we fight zergs we try to string them out and kill them individually when they overextend.

5-10 guys is manageable to push on with dark path assuming the other members of your group know what to do and react fast to take advantage of the window.

Sundial.9015:

@Snowgoons:

Thats funny, because I do that all the time to groups of 10+ people and survive thanks to protection + well of blinding. It creates a window where my group can push in and decimate their group because a good chunk of them can’t fight back and usually dont see it coming especially if they are defending a supply camp.

I am almost NEVER solo in 1v1 situations, I am built for supporting my group in ways besides DPS. Most fights for me I am fighting 5+ enemies.

I mean I am not saying it can’t be DONE. I agree it can be done, I however cannot agree with having to blow 10+ skills just to accomplish what some classes can do with 1. I am not for nerfing any class, but we need some love.

I know what you mean in terms of supporting my team, we are support kings, honestly spreading others conditions to people, keeping people off siege weapons, keeping people off finishing your friends. Hell putting fear mark in clever places to temporarily deny access. BUT still….end of the day we hardly get ANY kills, we don’t get anything for 90% of what we do. If they want to add some sort of bonus for support I am for that too.

You cannot seriously tell me you are getting the same amount of badges and kills and stuff as your other chars on your necro and MAYBE we aren’t supposed to. However we should be listed as a heavy team support char if that is the case and I still think that should have been more the guardian. I honestly think I do more supporting than guardians do and they are named.. Guardians.

Oh boy

I play a power well necro and my damage is great, death shroud is absolutely amazing. I do feel there should be a second option for necros that just want to pump up there damage and forgo the benefits of DS, like maybe a “Deadly Rituals” ability that allows necros to use life force for extra damage instead of a death shroud.

Do not touch dagger/dagger they are great right now, maybe a bump in damage but I’m happy.

I RARELY ever lose a 1v1 in SPVP or WvW, the necro has a lot of amazing counters to other classes. My deathshroud life blast was hitting for 4.8k last night, is it 15k pistol whip damage? No but with all our other abilities and options it adds up to take players down quickly and efficiently.

Only thing I feel is that we should get some utility for dungeons love, well of darkness is amazing and never leaves my bar, and signet of I death is great, but other than that we don’t really have any abilities to help block projectiles or shield teammates like a thiefs shadow refuge (I know it doesn’t “shield” per say bit regen and stealth are great). Even this complaint is a small one.

I do feel we should have some more spec options, as vampiric necro and straight up dps as I said above with a second class ability instead of DS. They definitely have to take if they are going to give, as it stands now if they just flat out buff our damage by A LOT (read A LOT) we will be op.

We really need our bugs fixed before we can fully jnderstand our class actual abilities, more on the class.

You are right about that. I have 2000 or so kills and less than 500 badges. Before you say thats not alot, I spend most of my time outside of zergs running around with my gang of 5-10 people. So naturally I get alot less kills.

As for Guardians: they are very good at supporting a group in ways that buff them, but I don’t think they are very effective in ranged situations or have CC capabilities on the level that we do but feel free to correct me there if I am wrong.

Yukishiro.8792:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Yukishiro.8792:

Nobody argues DS is pretty good on a power spec. The problem is that it is really lame for a condition spec, which is the most viable spec and certainly a big part of the class.

I disagree. The only problem with DS for a condition spec is building LF is a real pain. Other than that its fine. Even 4 is cool. Aoe channel that can crit multiple times giving the ability proc two different Bleed on crit effects, good times.

Only talking about spvp/tpvp

LF is very hard to build with condition spec and 1 is complete junk. Meaning there is never any justification for staying in DS more than 3ish seconds. Therefore making it rather lame.

Not true. With Full LF it hits just as hard as the staff 1. and since you get stuck in staff anyway what the big deal? If your staying in DS so long that it no longer does equal damage to the Staff your playing it wrong. Hell there is no reason to stay in DS for that long unless you go power. This does not make it bad or even useless. Its like saying the Staff is useless because of the 1 auto attack. So Condition Necro’s don’t get much out of DS 1 so what, they don’t get much out of the Staff 1 either. At least with DS your not stuck with it for 10 sec.

I don’t know about you guys, but I hate being pigeon holed into the staff as well. Give us 2h hammer (WOULD LOVE 2h AXE NECRO ANET), similar to how mesmer have their sword.

Open up some proper skills, re-do the traits so again we aren’t pigeon holed.

Then I will stop complaining :P

Necro is a lame let down JUST because they gave us DS. I know some of you love DS, but honestly I cannot see how they can up our damage with DS the way it is now. Maybe give us like some said here and another thread a diff DS based on weapons.

They simply will not let us walk around with 40k+ hp when including DS and do great damage.

Snowgoons.6349:

I don’t know about you guys, but I hate being pigeon holed into the staff as well. Give us 2h hammer (WOULD LOVE 2h AXE NECRO ANET), similar to how mesmer have their sword.

Open up some proper skills, re-do the traits so again we aren’t pigeon holed.

Then I will stop complaining :P

Necro is a lame let down JUST because they gave us DS. I know some of you love DS, but honestly I cannot see how they can up our damage with DS the way it is now. Maybe give us like some said here and another thread a diff DS based on weapons.

They simply will not let us walk around with 40k+ hp when including DS and do great damage.

Maybe give a second racial ability for necros who want max DPS the ability to turn death shroud into a signet like passive that increases damage output a great deal but at the expense of not being able to enter DS until a long cooldown is up.

I really like the death shroud mechanic myself and I don’t want to see it removed. I don’t mind hitting like a kitten (besides dagger mainhand) as long as I am dominating people with CC at the same time with a godmode like tank while providing important support to the rest of our group.

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Yukishiro.8792:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Yukishiro.8792:

Nobody argues DS is pretty good on a power spec. The problem is that it is really lame for a condition spec, which is the most viable spec and certainly a big part of the class.

I disagree. The only problem with DS for a condition spec is building LF is a real pain. Other than that its fine. Even 4 is cool. Aoe channel that can crit multiple times giving the ability proc two different Bleed on crit effects, good times.

Only talking about spvp/tpvp

LF is very hard to build with condition spec and 1 is complete junk. Meaning there is never any justification for staying in DS more than 3ish seconds. Therefore making it rather lame.

Not true. With Full LF it hits just as hard as the staff 1. and since you get stuck in staff anyway what the big deal? If your staying in DS so long that it no longer does equal damage to the Staff your playing it wrong. Hell there is no reason to stay in DS for that long unless you go power. This does not make it bad or even useless. Its like saying the Staff is useless because of the 1 auto attack. So Condition Necro’s don’t get much out of DS 1 so what, they don’t get much out of the Staff 1 either. At least with DS your not stuck with it for 10 sec.

A class defining mechanic that reduces your abilities from 10 useful abilities to 4 abilities, with one of them practically useless, is lame. We may have to just agree to disagree. I think it has more to do with the defintion of “lame” than anything else. What you are saying is DS isn’t bad. I don’t necessarily disagree. But it is definitely lame for a condition necro. Your rejoinder that “it’s no worse than staff 1!” sorta proves the point. Staff 1 is also lame.

Snowgoons.6349:

I don’t know about you guys, but I hate being pigeon holed into the staff as well. Give us 2h hammer (WOULD LOVE 2h AXE NECRO ANET), similar to how mesmer have their sword.

Open up some proper skills, re-do the traits so again we aren’t pigeon holed.

Then I will stop complaining :P

Necro is a lame let down JUST because they gave us DS. I know some of you love DS, but honestly I cannot see how they can up our damage with DS the way it is now. Maybe give us like some said here and another thread a diff DS based on weapons.

They simply will not let us walk around with 40k+ hp when including DS and do great damage.

DS is not about upping your Damage. It is a tool, Some build do use it to up your damage, other builds do not. Expecting it to always up your damage will just be a let down in the long run. They can’t give us a tool that lets us live longer than other Prof and have it up our damage at the same time.

The only problem i think DS have is that generating LF sucks for a lot of weapons. And the fact that we start with 0 LF at the start of every tpvp game. Now if we started with 50% than it would be fine. But our main defense is worthless at the start of very game. This makes playing a “bunker” necro near impossible (and makes the other necro’s very hard, good teams know that the Necro starts with 0 LF and target him first), because any burst Prof worth anything will kill you long before you have generated any LF. And even if you do generate LF your already behind, in the fight.

@Angry Flying Squirrel

That’s my entire point, our class defining ability isn’t damage based, 90% of our skills aren’t damage based.

We end up getting majority of our damage from elite and utilities only.

If they don’t want us to do condition spec, either drastically improve our weapon damage or give us a weapon choice like 2h something that actually is damage oriented. Even this is still not enough as our traits kind of suck for power build.

Everything about necro screams, conditions, mass conditions, yet we end up doing it worse than some other classes.

Blue said pistol whip 15k damage I know it’s not ALWAYS this much and rarely is, but still why the hell is our most damaging skill a channeled skill that does MAYBE 4k damage over time?

Why are we not given ANY option to do say 4k damage with conditions?

I still say add a damage explosion to epidemic OR give us separate conditions that actually do damage. Like say add these conditions to our weapons somehow:

Corrupted (2-3 second cast after infected?) aoe, adds a condition which cannot be removed for its duration (10 sec?). This condition explodes an aoe damage explosion when that player walks into a mark. <—- ??

Or

Doomed (4 second cast after infected, can remove it within those 4 seconds) single target, adds a condition that soaks up incoming damage until full then unleashes it on to the player and surrounding players x2? (Maybe too strong?)

Or

Corrosive (2-3 second cast single target), adds special vulnerability that damages the targets armor (temporarily? or maybe even not really damaging your armor) Once armor is burned through: double any incoming bleed effect damage from the originating necro that cast corrosive on you?

I don’t know I am just throwing crap out there.

SOMETHING needs to be done.

Just give necro access to burning via a talent at 25 curses, since the current ability there is pretty lame. It could proc off bleed or add a burn effect to chill (call it frostfire or frostbite or something). That would give necros some decent dps from conditions.

edit: One cool option that would sorta solve the lameness of DS for condition necros is to replace the 25 point curses talent with something that makes all DS abilities burn the target for 3 seconds (call it Spectral Fire). That would make DS a lot more useful for condition necromancers and help deal with the low dps from having only one damaging condition.

Snowgoons.6349:

@Angry Flying Squirrel

That’s my entire point, our class defining ability isn’t damage based, 90% of our skills aren’t damage based.

We end up getting majority of our damage from elite and utilities only.

If they don’t want us to do condition spec, either drastically improve our weapon damage or give us a weapon choice like 2h something that actually is damage oriented. Even this is still not enough as our traits kind of suck for power build.

Everything about necro screams, conditions, mass conditions, yet we end up doing it worse than some other classes.

Blue said pistol whip 15k damage I know it’s not ALWAYS this much and rarely is, but still why the hell is our most damaging skill a channeled skill that does MAYBE 4k damage over time?

Why are we not given ANY option to do say 4k damage with conditions?

I still say add a damage explosion to epidemic OR give us separate conditions that actually do damage. Like say add these conditions to our weapons somehow:

Corrupted (2-3 second cast after infected?) aoe, adds a condition which cannot be removed for its duration (10 sec?). This condition explodes an aoe damage explosion when that player walks into a mark. <—- ??

Or

Doomed (4 second cast after infected, can remove it within those 4 seconds) single target, adds a condition that soaks up incoming damage until full then unleashes it on to the player and surrounding players x2? (Maybe too strong?)

Or

Corrosive (2-3 second cast single target), adds special vulnerability that damages the targets armor (temporarily? or maybe even not really damaging your armor) Once armor is burned through: double any incoming bleed effect damage from the originating necro that cast corrosive on you?

I don’t know I am just throwing crap out there.

SOMETHING needs to be done.

That was not your point. You never said any such thing in your post. Condition damage will never be burst. Oh and get 20 stack of bleed on a person and that’s 2k+ damage a sec. Who says our Defining mechanic has to be about damage? Really that’s just flat out boring as hell. Look at the warrior their Prof mechanic is very boring. So no thanks.

Do we have some damage number problems? sure. As it stand we do have to use our utilities to help us out in the damage area.

Our damage being low is not a problem, if we had the servivability to make up for it. As it stand we do not. Necro will never every be a high damage Prof. If that’s what you want than perhaps the Necro is not for you.

Yeah Yuki I wish we had burning also. Moreso I wish they just got rid of bleeding for necros and reworked us to have disease or something unique to our class. Yes deathshroud is unique but it is quite frankly lacking for most necros. It takes a very niche understanding of how it plays along with other skills to be used effectively. As it is most necros who do not understand it use it as a last resort ‘oh crap’ button they activate when all hope is going down the drain. If this is what most necros do , just default then it tells us that deathshroud in and of itself is not alluring, potent, or user friendly enough for players to grasp the idea of what it is supposed to be used for. If that is happening as often as it seems then the skill is flawed/ looks ugly/ is the kid in the corner no one wants to play with.
This brings up the idea that most of our skills do not interact well with our other skills and traits. If they did us necros would have more viable and productive builds than “conditions” and “power build”. Sure there are other builds, but most people don’t use them for long or at all. =(
I understand Anet has /had a certain outlook for necros that they were following through with, and for the most part it is a GOOD DESIGN. If it wasn’t a good basic design we wouldn’t all be here loving our necros or discussing changing things. However it really is time to pull whatever team works on balance and necros off whatever bench they are on and get them working things out. The 5-10 new posts per day cluttering these forums about the same old things day in and day out, are not only frustrating to see and read, but must be a big deterrent to people wanting to come play as a necro.
I’m ranting all over the place so w/e

I’ll be on my red-headed step child necro all weekend
Madame Moorshade Teknomancer.

First of all the power build of necros needs either more dps or a longer range on axe skills. A necro in a power build is quite fragile – life force or not (you need to build and replenish it nevertheless).

Secondly, a necro has so much more potential than to be a cliche-mage-wannabe. There are minions, there are conditions which suit such a class much more imo. Too bad that the minions are just lousy (AI, pathing) and take up valuable utility slots whereas off not much in return because most of the die to freak aoe fire etc.

Corrupted (2-3 second cast after infected?) aoe, adds a condition which cannot be removed for its duration (10 sec?). This condition explodes an aoe damage explosion when that player walks into a mark. <—- ??
Or
Doomed (4 second cast after infected, can remove it within those 4 seconds) single target, adds a condition that soaks up incoming damage until full then unleashes it on to the player and surrounding players x2? (Maybe too strong?)
Or
Corrosive (2-3 second cast single target), adds special vulnerability that damages the targets armor (temporarily? or maybe even not really damaging your armor) Once armor is burned through: double any incoming bleed effect damage from the originating necro that cast corrosive on you?

I like all three of these ideas, I also am in love with the idea of epidemic doing a small burst of damage. Perhaps even based on how many conditions it is aoe applying. Yum.

Whoa whoa whoa calm down guys. this is a pretty good discussion thread, really don’t want it to be closed and never looked at =)

That being said Angry Flying,( hmm referenced post removed or something ) I know you have pretty much always had the stance that necros don’t really need more condition damage/ or burst condition damage. I understand and respect that, however from my opinion and playing the game I personally feel we do need it. I’m pretty sure you can look through my posting history that on at least 2 separate occasions and many other posts I have mentioned changing some of our scepter/traits/utility skills to include some sort of burst conditions mechanic. While I don’t think it will fix all the fundamental problems associated with our class in general it will of course gives necros that little bit of edge that just about ever class has: Someway to burst a single target down or give a little more pressure to their hp bar. Can this be done in other ways ? Hell yes. But i Think adding in some sort of burst to conditions would be the easiest was to supplement necros in this area.

@Teknomancer.8475
Speaking from spvp/tpvp

The problem with buffing condition weapons and such is that we are already viable as a condition Necro. The Buff needed to get condition on level with Burst would make Necro’s gods. It does not address (in my opinion) the real problem with the Prof. Condition damage is about out lasting our opponents. Right now the Problem Necro’s are having is that we don’t outlast our opponents. Burst damage is so high that we can be killed long before our Bleeds do much of anything. This is not a problem with Bleeds (or our condition damage), its a problem with Burst in this game and the lack of surviviablity of the Necro.

It also shows some real problems in the game. Vitality is not worth as much as Toughness. Even maxing out toughness a Necro can be easily killed. This really shows it self at the start of tpvp games.

The other problem this game has is that A.Net introduced an different game mode than tpvp. Something they said they would not do. As soon as they made spvp 8v8 they kittened up balance, and the perceived balance of the players.

When you play tpvp, our problems are not nearly as bad. With many of these problem only being problems due to the number of bugs the Necro has. One of the biggest problems for a condition necro is LF gain. This might be fixed when Gluttony is fixed. Until we get those fixes it is very difficult to see were we stand.

People are asking for damage buffs for the Necro, saying how we don’t compare to other Prof in terms of damage. That is true we don’t compare, but we might never compare. That is what makes a Necro a Necro. We are the Prof that outlasts. It is expected that we use our tools to outlast and use our lower dps but higher survivabilty to take us to victory. That is what makes playing a Necro different than any other Prof.

While I would still argue that we need some form of burstiness ( which the change to BiP was a ..weird step in the right direction to me ) I see exactly what you mean by our survival is what holds our class back from being able to do what we are supposed to do. I actually don’t think necros do bad damage at all. I just wish we had a way to frontload that damage into a skill or burst. I can see though how me wanting that burst is probably a direct effect of the fact that , as you said, I cannot survive another players burst at all. So I am wanting us to have burst to make up for that fact.
But the questions still remain on how do we increase necro sustain and survival generally and without making all the other classes cry about us becoming unkillable monsters ?

=P
Madame Moorshade Teknomancer.

Snowgoons.6349:

Don’t pretend you aren’t hitting F1 and mashing 4 like the rest of us

No, I actually utilize Death Shroud (geared and specced for it), and I can rock mobs for 5k+ life blasts. Death Shroud is my highest source of damage… in fact, my entire build is based on staying in DS as much as I can.

Teknomancer.8475:

While I would still argue that we need some form of burstiness ( which the change to BiP was a ..weird step in the right direction to me ) I see exactly what you mean by our survival is what holds our class back from being able to do what we are supposed to do. I actually don’t think necros do bad damage at all. I just wish we had a way to frontload that damage into a skill or burst. I can see though how me wanting that burst is probably a direct effect of the fact that , as you said, I cannot survive another players burst at all. So I am wanting us to have burst to make up for that fact.
But the questions still remain on how do we increase necro sustain and survival generally and without making all the other classes cry about us becoming unkillable monsters ?

=P
Madame Moorshade Teknomancer.

And that is a real problem and the reason why we were nerfed so hard. Nothing pisses people off more than not being able to kill someone. To answer your question, i really don’t know. I think if we could generate LF faster and easier we would have the tools to out last a lot of that burst (tpvp). Or other Prof’s need to have their burst lowered. Upping our burst to be on pair while sounds good, would in my opinion be bad for the game, and not fix the real problem. For condition spec’s if they convert the scepter bleeds back to 4-7 sec bleeds that would go a long way to upping our damage. We would be able to stack more bleeds and would up our damage by a nice degree.

Right now glass cannon builds are just to viable. Thief’s will stop having god mode as soon as they stop having perma stealth, through the bug. When that happens your going to see a bunch of Thief’s crying about how much everyone owns them. Because of that bug they are getting way more defense from stealth then they were supposed to, this in turn will make glass cannon build less viable and so in turn lower their damage.

I just started a Necro and i have a 80 thief (#2 spam anyone?) and a 80 guardian.. I like the necro alot more in WvW then both the other classes.. Love the guardian in pve and thief is just meh.

I dont think there is much wrong with necro atm, hopefully it will get buffed but i love it as is. DS FTW in WvW i must say!

Well I enjoy the necro, but I’m not blind to the bugs, and I understand others wanting to play the necro differently. Some people just enjoy the necro class in general in any game.

Knowing this I really feel that there should be an option for necros that want to spec pure damage and forgoe deathshrouds survivability to up that damage. I understand with DS why we cannot have high damage, but I don’t think that should be forced on everyone. I seriously would like to see an option to use life force to boost damage by a large margin and in return completely forgoe the survivability gained from life force and DS.

This is one thing I absolutely love in this game is that any class can do any role, why should that stop at the necro?? I see players stating that the mecro will never have high damage and will never do more damage than other classes, and if you dont like it his isnt the class for you, why!? why he hell should players that enjoy a class have to change because they want to play a damage spec!? To me this makes no sense and completely goes against ArenaNets vision they had. More options is Never a bad thing, and if they are worried about balancing changes can always be made. Every profession can fill every role, so Hereford I feel the necro should be able to spec for pure damage and not be hindered by a class mechanic that will always keep them at lower damage. Some player just love damage.

Ps. ANET I am extremely happy that you made necros viable for play without minions, I have always wanted to play a necro in other games, but I absolutely DESPISE pet classes, I can finally enjoy a class I love. Thanks. (I know MM AI need buffed for the ones that do want to play with pets)

BlueprintLFE.2358:

Well I enjoy the necro, but I’m not blind to the bugs, and I understand others wanting to play the necro differently. Some people just enjoy the necro class in general in any game.

Knowing this I really feel that there should be an option for necros that want to spec pure damage and forgoe deathshrouds survivability to up that damage. I understand with DS why we cannot have high damage, but I don’t think that should be forced on everyone. I seriously would like to see an option to use life force to boost damage by a large margin and in return completely forgoe the survivability gained from life force and DS.

This is one thing I absolutely love in this game is that any class can do any role, why should that stop at the necro?? I see players stating that the mecro will never have high damage and will never do more damage than other classes, and if you dont like it his isnt the class for you, why!? why he hell should players that enjoy a class have to change because they want to play a damage spec!? To me this makes no sense and completely goes against ArenaNets vision they had. More options is Never a bad thing, and if they are worried about balancing changes can always be made. Every profession can fill every role, so Hereford I feel the necro should be able to spec for pure damage and not be hindered by a class mechanic that will always keep them at lower damage. Some player just love damage.

Ps. ANET I am extremely happy that you made necros viable for play without minions, I have always wanted to play a necro in other games, but I absolutely DESPISE pet classes, I can finally enjoy a class I love. Thanks. (I know MM AI need buffed for the ones that do want to play with pets)

Because that was not how the Prof was created. In other words your asking for the fundamental aspect of the Prof to be changed. That’s way. You can play however you want. If you want to go full damage you can, but this game is not about making pure classes so you can’t have a pure dps.

Nothing is stopping the Necro from filling all roles.

I don’t see where you get the idea necros shouldn’t be able to do damage when every other profession can. If we’re the odd ones out that suggests the problem is with our design not with the design of every other class.

P.S. Adding burn on DS as the 25 point curses talent actually seems like a really good idea the more I think about it. It makes DS something more than just a gimmick for condition spec and gives some decent “burst” in the sense that burning is the highest DPS condition.

No doubt power specs need some help too but that doesn’t mean we can’t throw around ideas on how to make DS more useful for condition.

@Yukishiro.8792

Please read my posts. I never ever said we could not do damage. We can in fact. But what you can’t ask for is to do the same amount of damage as another Prof while keeping our higher survivability. The point of the Prof was to be an attrition Prof, people are asking for that to be change. If you don’t like that aspect of the Prof please don’t ask it to be changed, just stop playing a Necro. Some of us like the Prof as an attrition Prof. Don’t expect us to be happy with the fact that your trying to change the core aspect of the Prof we wanted to play.

@Angry Flying Squirrel

I don’t know if you read the part, but I’m completely happy with my necro minus the bugs. I love DS and have no problem doing damage on my necro. I was saying as an option for more players that are interested in damage. There is nothing wrong with options.

@BlueprintLFE.2358

You didn’t read my post. Yes some times there are problems with options. In this case it would change the Prof.

You want to see what happens with more options? Take a look at spvp vs tpvp. Most of the posts are people unhappy with balance in spvp, too much zerg, glass cannons running rampant, everyone playing Thief/Mesmer/Guardian. And why did that happen? Because A.net give people another mode of pvp. Those problem don’t happen in tpvp. And so what do people want? They want more options, arenas, something that will make balancing even worse. It will make people complain even more about balance. There are many examples in many products that show that giving an “option” breaks the original.

Dude,

You just don’t add options or content because it messes up balance.

Balance is a continual changing thing, and if you don’t believe they should add new content because it will mess up balance, then I completely disagree. There would never be any expansions if they went by that mode of thinking.

And people aren’t complaining about thiefs and glass cannons because there is another mode of SPVP, people are complaining about balance because that’s WHAT THEY DO. People always complain when class X kills them. Balance could be perfect and some people would still think its wrong or this is OP, that’s just how it is. Yes SPVP might have inflated the complaints as more people are pvping on different skill levels, but you can’t exclude whole sections of playerbases because you afraid of messing up balance. Regardless balance complaints would of happened anyways. Tpvp would of eventually started with balance complaints once classes were played enough where people would have seen strengths and weaknesses. That’s how MMO’s go.

BlueprintLFE.2358:

Dude,

You just don’t add options or content because it messes up balance.

Balance is a continual changing thing, and if you don’t believe they should add new content because it will mess up balance, then I completely disagree. There would never be any expansions if they went by that mode of thinking.

And people aren’t complaining about thiefs and glass cannons because there is another mode of SPVP, people are complaining about balance because that’s WHAT THEY DO. People always complain when class X kills them. Balance could be perfect and some people would still think its wrong or this is OP, that’s just how it is. Yes SPVP might have inflated the complaints as more people are pvping on different skill levels, but you can’t exclude whole sections of playerbases because you afraid of messing up balance. Regardless balance complaints would of happened anyways. Tpvp would of eventually started with balance complaints once classes were played enough where people would have seen strengths and weaknesses. That’s how MMO’s go.

Just shows you didn’t read what i said. oh i give up.

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

@Yukishiro.8792

Please read my posts. I never ever said we could not do damage. We can in fact. But what you can’t ask for is to do the same amount of damage as another Prof while keeping our higher survivability. The point of the Prof was to be an attrition Prof, people are asking for that to be change. If you don’t like that aspect of the Prof please don’t ask it to be changed, just stop playing a Necro. Some of us like the Prof as an attrition Prof. Don’t expect us to be happy with the fact that your trying to change the core aspect of the Prof we wanted to play.

If the point of Necro was to be an attrition profession, the mark was severely missed. Comparing like builds (i.e. survival/bunker to survival/bunker), Necros are only a little better at surviving on average. Necros are markedly better at taking down other condition builds, but there are precious few of these. The direct damage is just too high – Necro damage needs to be boosted so that they can attrit faster or survivability needs to be boosted so they can survive in a glass build markedly longer than other glass builds.

Ahmon.1730:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

@Yukishiro.8792

Please read my posts. I never ever said we could not do damage. We can in fact. But what you can’t ask for is to do the same amount of damage as another Prof while keeping our higher survivability. The point of the Prof was to be an attrition Prof, people are asking for that to be change. If you don’t like that aspect of the Prof please don’t ask it to be changed, just stop playing a Necro. Some of us like the Prof as an attrition Prof. Don’t expect us to be happy with the fact that your trying to change the core aspect of the Prof we wanted to play.

If the point of Necro was to be an attrition profession, the mark was severely missed. Comparing like builds (i.e. survival/bunker to survival bunker), Necros are only a little better at surviving. Necros are markedly better at taking down other condition builds, but there are precious few of these. The direct damage is just too high – Necro damage needs to be boosted so that they can attrit faster or survivability needs to be boosted so they can survive in a glass build longer than other glass builds.

And I agree. Some of this will get fixed with bug fixes. But most people would agree that burst in this game is just way too high right now.

@sundial, I also like my necro for group wvw, I think people are more concerned about spvp here. The devs say they do not balance for wvw.

@ the guy who said 4 is also good for condition spec since you can proc bleeds. No, you’re better off using staff 2 or autoattacking sceptre in that time. Even in aoe situation. DS really does suck a lot for condition spec even with change to 2.

Make dagger cleave or give us extra range or power. It’s ridiculous how I’m doing a ton of damage aiming at only 1 mob while a warrior can let lose his whirling axes or hundred strikes and do EVEN MORE in a conal and circular direction.

BlueprintLFE.2358:

I play a power well necro and my damage is great, death shroud is absolutely amazing.

I play the same and while your damage might seem acceptable at first fighting glass cannons you really have no idea until you actually try the different classes. Once you’ve played a shatter mesmer you will not be able to look at your power necromancer as anything but a giant ( or less giant in the case of asura ) pile of garbage.

An alternative to removing DS would be to split it into parts, so that it is easier to fit into the cycle without the all or nothing deal at present.

Right now it is a modified down state, and as such is even more jarring than popping a transformation like Lich or Plague. The other professions do not have their whole UI vanish when they trigger their F-key abilities, and so has a easier time working them into their rotations.

Think everyone agrees we need something. Anything.

Ball is in your court Anet, ball is in your court.