DS: Much better, but not quite there yet
I disagree with essentially every single point that you have made on this post.
Just Doom and Tainted Shackles alone provide a condition Necro with more from their class mechanic than any other class with their respective class mechanic in my opinion. These two skills are the bread and butter of the Necromancer whether they are Power/Hybrid/Condi based. This is not mentioning all of the other benefits Death Shroud provides for condition Necros.
Death Shroud is not something the Necromancer is supposed to stay in for extended periods of time. It would be extremely powerful if we were able to stay in it longer than we already do for any Necro spec.
My only gripe with Death Shroud is my inability to see my utility cooldowns while in Death Shroud and Death Shroud abilities while outside of it.
I disagree with essentially every single point that you have made on this post.
Just Doom and Tainted Shackles alone provide a condition Necro with more from their class mechanic than any other class with their respective class mechanic in my opinion. These two skills are the bread and butter of the Necromancer whether they are Power/Hybrid/Condi based. This is not mentioning all of the other benefits Death Shroud provides for condition Necros.
Death Shroud is not something the Necromancer is supposed to stay in for extended periods of time. It would be extremely powerful if we were able to stay in it longer than we already do for any Necro spec.
My only gripe with Death Shroud is my inability to see my utility cooldowns while in Death Shroud and Death Shroud abilities while outside of it.
As I said in my initial post. It may be a difference in opinion with the devs. Currently, in a con build, u pop ds, use a couple skill, leave ds. Or, you keep it up to attempt to not die. With the changes they made in the latest patch, zerkers now benefit from maintaining ds for extended periods of time. I would like the same to be true for con builds
Eh, no different than tracking the cooldowns of my other weapon swap.
My gripe is the fact that necros are the only profession that becomes immune to Regeneration (and all healing) by using their class mechanic. As was said in the last SotG, it’s a pain when you go to heal a necro only to have him jump into death shroud and make you waste your skill entirely.
Death Shroud is not something the Necromancer is supposed to stay in for extended periods of time. It would be extremely powerful if we were able to stay in it longer than we already do for any Necro spec.
I beg to differ if your build includes the new GM trait.
To all the people who are underestimating DS: I’m not going to argue whether or not a Dagger combo will do more damage than DS for now (need more testing), but here’s what I do know.
DS allows your wells to 100% crit. This is actually a huge deal. That plus the DS 4 and even DS5 instantly wipes out 5 mobs and do insane damage to the rest. The AOE aspect cannot be ignored. Not to mention that there will be times when your heals and such are on cooldown, and you need to go in DS. Your “buffer period” in DS now is infinitely more powerful than before.
Oh, and it’s also ranged.
Nobody uses 1.
Honestly, Death Shroud should be melee.
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Nobody uses 1.
Honestly, Death Shroud should be melee.
I would prefere a “F2” as a melee DS form.
The problem with it becoming a “temporary awesome” button is that making DS that strong with the amount of uptime we can potentially spend in it would be over the top. Right now it offers a good reward on every build to swap into. Single target bleed+chill, Torment for AoE on condi builds, Doom for CC and potentially another damaging condion it traited. Power now has a more useful auto with the DS1 changed and AoE damage with DS4.
Morte Novella – Necromancer | Bryker – Guardian
(Jade Quarry) Team Savvy
(Jade Quarry) Team Savvy
I remember the devs talking about how Necromancer is the hardest Profession to kill.
This was before launch, so quite some time ago.
They also keep saying how Necromancer is about attrition.
There was a post about it somewhere, I forgot where exactly.
Yet I feel that Necromancer’s Death Shroud has gotten buffs for offense instead of for delaying enemies.
The life force has helped but there’s no “bunker skill” in Death Shroud itself.
I wonder if Arenanet changed their opinion about what Necromancer should be or if I’m misunderstanding what they mean by “Attrition”.
I don’t really care what direction they take Necro to so long as it’s decent and fun to play, but I’m just wondering what their plans are.
Either way I definitely agree about Resurrecting and stomping while in Death Shroud.
If others are allowed to do those things while invulnerable then why can’t we do them in Death Shroud?
It just makes no sense.
And yeah Life Blast applying Bleed is something I’ve been expecting to see for a long time now.
Benight[Edge]
I want to post this for clarity. I dont feel that ds is awful, I feel that as a class mechanic, that the level of synergy isnt where it needs to be for certain builds, con builds primarily.
I remember the devs talking about how Necromancer is the hardest Profession to kill.
This was before launch, so quite some time ago.
They also keep saying how Necromancer is about attrition.
There was a post about it somewhere, I forgot where exactly.Yet I feel that Necromancer’s Death Shroud has gotten buffs for offense instead of for delaying enemies.
The life force has helped but there’s no “bunker skill” in Death Shroud itself.I wonder if Arenanet changed their opinion about what Necromancer should be or if I’m misunderstanding what they mean by “Attrition”.
I don’t really care what direction they take Necro to so long as it’s decent and fun to play, but I’m just wondering what their plans are.
Either way I definitely agree about Resurrecting and stomping while in Death Shroud.
If others are allowed to do those things while invulnerable then why can’t we do them in Death Shroud?
It just makes no sense.And yeah Life Blast applying Bleed is something I’ve been expecting to see for a long time now.
Life Transfer is a bunkerish skill in DS. It quite literally steals Life Force and helps you maintain Death Shroud a little longer. Spectral Walk and Spectral Armor (along with the 15 point Soul Reaping Talent) now work in Death Shroud and this helps with attrition tremendously.
Also, for the record, you can resurrect and stomp in Death Shroud.
Press Death Shroud and your Interact button on downed player within .01 seconds of each other. You can also cast Doom while rezzing/stomping as well.
The fact that Life Force drains every second a Necro is in Death Shroud means that the design for Death Shroud was for them to not remain inside of it for a long time. Say a minute or a longer.
I want to post this for clarity. I dont feel that ds is awful, I feel that as a class mechanic, that the level of synergy isnt where it needs to be for certain builds, con builds primarily.
Maybe we are both speaking in different terms, because when I post, it’s always about sPvP.
I do agree that in PvE Power builds can actually do more damage than Conditions builds and for longer in Death Shroud.
Moreso because the fights are infinitely longer in PvE and actual players aren’t trying to shove their weapons in your hole which dramatically reduces the amount of time one can spend in Death Shroud in PvP.
I want to post this for clarity. I dont feel that ds is awful, I feel that as a class mechanic, that the level of synergy isnt where it needs to be for certain builds, con builds primarily.
With 2 (potentially 3 if traited) damaging conditions DS is fine for condition builds.
Morte Novella – Necromancer | Bryker – Guardian
(Jade Quarry) Team Savvy
(Jade Quarry) Team Savvy
I remember the devs talking about how Necromancer is the hardest Profession to kill.
This was before launch, so quite some time ago.
They also keep saying how Necromancer is about attrition.
There was a post about it somewhere, I forgot where exactly.Yet I feel that Necromancer’s Death Shroud has gotten buffs for offense instead of for delaying enemies.
The life force has helped but there’s no “bunker skill” in Death Shroud itself.I wonder if Arenanet changed their opinion about what Necromancer should be or if I’m misunderstanding what they mean by “Attrition”.
I don’t really care what direction they take Necro to so long as it’s decent and fun to play, but I’m just wondering what their plans are.
Either way I definitely agree about Resurrecting and stomping while in Death Shroud.
If others are allowed to do those things while invulnerable then why can’t we do them in Death Shroud?
It just makes no sense.And yeah Life Blast applying Bleed is something I’ve been expecting to see for a long time now.
Life Transfer is a bunkerish skill in DS. It quite literally steals Life Force and helps you maintain Death Shroud a little longer. Spectral Walk and Spectral Armor (along with the 15 point Soul Reaping Talent) now work in Death Shroud and this helps with attrition tremendously.
Also, for the record, you can resurrect and stomp in Death Shroud.
Press Death Shroud and your Interact button on downed player within .01 seconds of each other. You can also cast Doom while rezzing/stomping as well.The fact that Life Force drains every second a Necro is in Death Shroud means that the design for Death Shroud was for them to not remain inside of it for a long time. Say a minute or a longer.
I always felt that Life Transfer was more for the damage than for the staying power, although it certainly has a bit of both.
Shroud stomping as it’s right now is almost certainly a glitch.
Doom working at almost anytime is intended, though, and definitely also good for defense when you interrupt skills with it.
I believe that Death Shroud degenerates because it used to be Necromancer’s downed mode.
Every downed mode has degeneration and Death Shroud is no different.
You wouldn’t want a Necro stuck in their downed mode in the middle of nowhere with no way to die or rally.
I remember reading stories of a single Necromancer holding off 4 players at the same time with smart Death Shroud use.
This is why we got “You need to master Death Shroud!” so often as a response from Arenanet.
They severely overestimated how good Death Shroud is for defending after it got nerfed so hard.
But yeah I don’t mind if they make it more of an aggression mechanic so long as they give us at least something to help us survive when being focused down.
Death Shroud used to have a shadow step for escaping, but now it has nothing for situations like that.
If we aren’t getting mobility then I’d like to us see some sort of sort invul or a barrier or whatever.
Benight[Edge]
Shroud stomp is as much a glitch as jump/dodge roll. The functionality is the same.
These types of mechanics are what adds additional depth to game play.
I want to post this for clarity. I dont feel that ds is awful, I feel that as a class mechanic, that the level of synergy isnt where it needs to be for certain builds, con builds primarily.
With 2 (potentially 3 if traited) damaging conditions DS is fine for condition builds.
Disagree. TS is nice dont get me wrong, but a 40 cd, 3 stacks of terror, which in a pve setting will likely do less than 3 stacks of bleed. DP is bad compared to your scepter auto attack and has a 15 sec cd. Doom is 20 sec cs w/ a max duration of 3 seconds if im not mistaken.
So when running conditions, ur only likely to pop a ds skill then leave ds. If u stay in ds ur dps and overall effectiveness goes down.
On top of this, consider alternatives. MoB is a 6 sec cd, 3 stacks of bleed, AoE, regen, and a max bleed duration of 16 sec. If you were to commit 10 seconds of time to filling a condition dps role. Using the staff would be better than using ds. I dont believe the necro should work like that.
Let us res/stomp others in DS & Litch.
How come 10sec CD from DS start, if you run out of LifeForce and are force exited. But 10sec CD renewed if you exit yourself.
Some sort of heals in DS. I saw in a live stream with dev’s that it annoys the crap outa other class’s to heal a necro as it’s totally wasted if we in DS.
Nobody uses 1.
Honestly, Death Shroud should be melee.
If you think “nobody” uses 6k crits from auto attack, I cry for your incompetence to comment
[rude]Antagonistka – Revenant, EU.
[SALT]Natchniony – Necromancer, EU.
Streams: http://www.twitch.tv/rym144
[SALT]Natchniony – Necromancer, EU.
Streams: http://www.twitch.tv/rym144
Nobody uses 1.
Honestly, Death Shroud should be melee.
It basically is, now that #1 do best damage within 600 range.
It fits in to condition builds by allowing you to soak up more damage, acting as the trump card, the same way bleed/fire Eles use mist form. Load them full of conditions, when the crux of the fight comes and your opponent commits, pop DS and watch him bleed/poison/burn/torment to death while at no risk yourself.
The only thing that needs to change for DS is for the #2 -
It needs to be a teleport to you target like Judge’s Intervention
The condition effects need to be AOE
The range needs to be set to 1200
DS is 100% more effective now. I ate a warriors 100blades last night just by popping spectral armor and DS4. my LF didnt budge, couldn’t believe it.
a melee DS is a terrible idea. we already have strong single target burst melee.
Grandad Fester / Unruly Pigeon – Necromancer by trade
It fits in to condition builds by allowing you to soak up more damage, acting as the trump card, the same way bleed/fire Eles use mist form. Load them full of conditions, when the crux of the fight comes and your opponent commits, pop DS and watch him bleed/poison/burn/torment to death while at no risk yourself.
Being forced from your current role into ds bc of ur hp vs actually wanting to use ds because it adds flavor to your intended role.
Im sry, but I dont think standing and watching is a good use of a class mechanic ie standing and watching shouldnt define the gw2 necro. It is boring and lacks synergy. I could be wrong, but feel the devs also look at it this way b/c of what they did for zerkers.
You mentioned another class to support ur example. Most/ all class skills dont penalize you with anything other than the cd on the class skill. Imagine if using steal on a condition thief locked you out of con skills for a time, or if using a ranger’s pet skills disabled all ranged attacks.
The only thing that needs to change for DS is for the #2 -
It needs to be a teleport to you target like Judge’s Intervention
The condition effects need to be AOE
The range needs to be set to 1200
Wasn’t in the patch notes, but the range already has been set to 1200. Conditions from Dark Path have always been a small AoE.
It fits in to condition builds by allowing you to soak up more damage, acting as the trump card, the same way bleed/fire Eles use mist form. Load them full of conditions, when the crux of the fight comes and your opponent commits, pop DS and watch him bleed/poison/burn/torment to death while at no risk yourself.
Being forced from your current role into ds bc of ur hp vs actually wanting to use ds because it adds flavor to your intended role.
Im sry, but I dont think standing and watching is a good use of a class mechanic ie standing and watching shouldnt define the gw2 necro. It is boring and lacks synergy. I could be wrong, but feel the devs also look at it this way b/c of what they did for zerkers.
You mentioned another class to support ur example. Most/ all class skills dont penalize you with anything other than the cd on the class skill. Imagine if using steal on a condition thief locked you out of con skills for a time, or if using a ranger’s pet skills disabled all ranged attacks.
Having more HP and using it advantageously isn’t ‘standing and watching’, you should still be actively avoiding damage and using your DS attacks. You don’t lose anything by relying on it in such a way, everything is still available, it just changes how you use it and what you rely on most in what situation. You choose one thing over another, sometimes even between two things that would both be good. That’s how build diversity works. If you’ve chosen to be a conditionmancer then DS already has several viable uses applicable in many situations, only one of which I gave as an example.
(edited by Conncept.7638)