Guild Wars 2

Enough said.

Reaper Greatsword is just not up to par with the other weapons

yeah but look at the positive site. thief have to spam boringly spam heartseeker when a boss drops to 25% health. boringly spamming gravedigger under 50% health is not a dps increase so u can continue spamming the exiting dagger auto attack chain xD

GS needs some love, but so do scepter and axe (probably more so than GS).

3 days ago I was convinced that the extra cleave from GS would outweigh the lower dps. And that the slower attack speed being more difficult to deal with, would balance out a bit with the higher burst damage from the individual strikes (pvp wise mostly).

But after playing the reaper I feel that neither of those really hold up.
Dagger holds an exceptional good niche with the fact it builds LF super fast. IMO it should remain a very high dps auto attack weapon (wouldn’t mind if dagger AA > GS AA), but the great swords whole kit should outdps daggers AA.

The slower hits really really hurt. Like A LOT. It’s so easy to interrupt your own attacks right before they land (1 second cast time completely to waste), either by casting a skill, dodging, someone running out of range.
The chill on the 3rd strike is hard to keep up this way. (Let alone that even in a perfect situation it’s only up for like 50% of the time).

The extra target cleave is nice, but it’s only 1 extra target on your auto attack. And the burst from GS so far hasn’t impressed me, especially knowing what kind of burst other classes have. Classes who DO have team support, who DO have high mobility, and outdps us left and right.

On top of all that, the LF generation with GS is annoyingly low and tied to abilities that are quite clunky to use. There are ways you can circumvent that by taking the shout as a heal, and certain utilities like Spectral Grasp, but those are more band aids than an actual solution. After all, one shouldn’t NEED utility skills to patch defects in your weapon set.

Yeah I find it weird that the reaper is meant to be all about shroud and their unique weapon has absolutely terrible life force generation. The two skills that it does have a slow, easily avoided and one isn’t something you’d want to blow just for a teeny amount of life force.

Greatsword definitely needs work; slightly better targeting on GS#5, tweaks to cast times, bump a few numbers and I don’t think asking for GS#3 to have a small leap effect or 600 range is asking too much really as having good uptime on your target is still a little hard even under good circumstances.

I said dozen of time Gs dps will be far worse than dagger …. only deluded minds hoped for something

Tristan.5678:

I said dozen of time Gs dps will be far worse than dagger …. only deluded minds hoped for something

It doesn’t need to be more dmg than dagger, it just needs to fit a role, that role doesn’t necessarily have to be highest autoattack weapon as dagger already does that nicely. Filling life force/melee cc we actually need.

Greatsword auto dps on every profession has always been inferior to another dps weapon. Warrior: axe > gs. Guardian: sword > gs. Ranger: sword > gs. Mesmer: sword > gs. The problem is the damage on the other Necro greatsword skills isn’t high enough.

GS has a lot of AoE so of course it should be weaker against single targets. The problem I have is that range is too close to dagger. It should be a bit longer, perhaps 240 minimum.

yes its kinda sad, that dagger has better damage then greatsword. the greatsword auto and gravedigger could need some improvments. the other skills are kinda fine dmg wise.

Regardless of how the GS hits, I haven’t ever had this much fun playing on a Necromancer before. For reference, I specialized into shroud as much as I could (+50% crit in shroud, LF drains slower, increased LF, etc) and into wells/life siphoning. I couldn’t get much into the shouts except for “Rise!” and the elite shout.

Rushing in with a Shroud #3 to #2 and popping #4 for 100% critical whirling damage, then hopping out of shroud to a GS #4 into #3 and 2-3 wells led to some fun times. I was siphoning around 500 health per second sometimes. The GS itself could use some work, but I had my OH weapons as Dagger/Warhorn (for the siphon and mobility) and that worked quite nicely in 1v1 scenarios.

Having all this AoE damage though is something tremendously wonderful!

Anchoku.8142:

GS has a lot of AoE so of course it should be weaker against single targets.

Why? Dagger has the best LF generation we can get. While the GS offers chill and one additional target. The chill will not be as good as the LF generation, they can give them equal DPS and it would be fair.

Anchoku.8142:

GS has a lot of AoE so of course it should be weaker against single targets. The problem I have is that range is too close to dagger. It should be a bit longer, perhaps 240 minimum.

Its called opportunity cost. The greatsword takes forever to preform its attacks. Because of this, the GS will lose a lot of damage whenever any of these situations arise:

#1: You’re forced to dodge or get out of the way of an enemy attack.
#2: You are interrupted before finishing the long windup
#3: The enemy is killed before you can launch the attack.
#4: The enemy gets knocked away before the attack can finish.
#5: The enemy downs you before you can down it.
#6: The GS is not fighting multiple tightly packed targets.

The problem is exacerbated greatly by the following fact: Reaper Shroud’s auto attack has, unboosted, higher DPS than the greatsword. It his the same amount of targets, but does so faster. So really greatsword has no excuse.

I’ve been whining about the state of the necro GS so much on the forums that I haven’t touched the actual game. Not so much blue in the face as I am…red and blistered in the fingertips.

Any rate, it’s no question that the dagger is a vastly superior weapon. I’d like to see the following changes, in brief (This will be a summary of the giant post I left the other day):

All greatsword skills gain range. At least their intended 170, if not something closer to 200-220ish.

• GS1 gain a bit of damage and Life Force gen. Perhaps some speed or a bit more chill uptime.
• GS2 gain damage or attack speed, whatever it needs to actually be good DPS. It should out damage dagger AA vs <50% HP targets, IMO. Perhaps a bit of LF gen when hitting foes below 50%, as this weapon’s current LF gen is laughable.
• GS3 Give this a dash mechanic, and distribute its life force generation over some other skills.
• GS4 Self buff the caster with protection, eliminate the aftercast root.
• GS5 More range/width + a better targeting function.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Anchoku.8142:

GS has a lot of AoE so of course it should be weaker against single targets. The problem I have is that range is too close to dagger. It should be a bit longer, perhaps 240 minimum.

Its called opportunity cost. The greatsword takes forever to preform its attacks. Because of this, the GS will lose a lot of damage whenever any of these situations arise:

#1: You’re forced to dodge or get out of the way of an enemy attack.
#2: You are interrupted before finishing the long windup
#3: The enemy is killed before you can launch the attack.
#4: The enemy gets knocked away before the attack can finish.
#5: The enemy downs you before you can down it.
#6: The GS is not fighting multiple tightly packed targets.

The problem is exacerbated greatly by the following fact: Reaper Shroud’s auto attack has, unboosted, higher DPS than the greatsword. It his the same amount of targets, but does so faster. So really greatsword has no excuse.

When I did the math, the greatsword seemed to have better DPS by around 7% compared to the Shroud, assuming everything hits.

Jackalrat.5493:

I’ve been whining about the state of the necro GS so much on the forums that I haven’t touched the actual game. Not so much blue in the face as I am…red and blistered in the fingertips.

Any rate, it’s no question that the dagger is a vastly superior weapon. I’d like to see the following changes, in brief (This will be a summary of the giant post I left the other day):

All greatsword skills gain range. At least their intended 170, if not something closer to 200-220ish.

• GS1 gain a bit of damage and Life Force gen. Perhaps some speed or a bit more chill uptime.
• GS2 gain damage or attack speed, whatever it needs to actually be good DPS. It should out damage dagger AA vs <50% HP targets, IMO. Perhaps a bit of LF gen when hitting foes below 50%, as this weapon’s current LF gen is laughable.
• GS3 Give this a dash mechanic, and distribute its life force generation over some other skills.
• GS4 Self buff the caster with protection, eliminate the aftercast root.
• GS5 More range/width + a better targeting function.

Mostly agree but no more LF generation. I think dagger should remain our LF generator for few targets and GS our LF generator for many targets (GS can generate more LF than dagger if you hit many enemies). But yes, the DPS of GS has to be strongly increased to be viable in any game mode.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Anchoku.8142:

GS has a lot of AoE so of course it should be weaker against single targets. The problem I have is that range is too close to dagger. It should be a bit longer, perhaps 240 minimum.

Its called opportunity cost. The greatsword takes forever to preform its attacks. Because of this, the GS will lose a lot of damage whenever any of these situations arise:

#1: You’re forced to dodge or get out of the way of an enemy attack.
#2: You are interrupted before finishing the long windup
#3: The enemy is killed before you can launch the attack.
#4: The enemy gets knocked away before the attack can finish.
#5: The enemy downs you before you can down it.
#6: The GS is not fighting multiple tightly packed targets.

The problem is exacerbated greatly by the following fact: Reaper Shroud’s auto attack has, unboosted, higher DPS than the greatsword. It his the same amount of targets, but does so faster. So really greatsword has no excuse.

I see your point and agree that GS has a massive opportunity cost but…

GS just cannot support PvP as it is with the long cast and after cast times. My intuition says some of the GS skills will receive time or range adjustments.

Fundamentally, an AoE weapon should have lower dps than a single target weapon like dagger (despite dagger now affecting 2 targets on Aa). I feel like Arenanet will keep dagger as max dps for 1-2 targets and scale GS per target.

It might be nice if dagger were refocused in single targets with added damage so GS cleaves and AoE had little to compete with but that is just wishing

I am becoming more convinced GS is meant to compliment, or substitute for, staff. GS could use a little more range but has a purpose.

Axe no longer has a place, even in axe-dreams, and will need rework.

The reason why GS has such bad LF gen is because of two traits:
Chilling force and Blighter’s boon.
Combine those with two shouts, Suffer and Weaklings, and you can easily gain your LF back before F1 comes off cooldown.

With Vital Persistance and not using GS/shouts on single target it’s entirely possible to stay in shroud long enough for the shouts to come off CD.

Tristan.5678:

I said dozen of time Gs dps will be far worse than dagger …. only deluded minds hoped for something

I think we all knew it, we just needed to have it in our hands and see if they fixed it before pointing fingers.

Revenant skill damage went up 20-40% between the last beta and this one.

I’m sure the raw damage of greatsword will be increased too. I’m not worried.

This week was about testing different concepts.

Is permanent chill OP? (no).
Is damage in big chunks stronger or weaker than DPS in small doses? (in this game it’s weaker, in a game like GW1 it’s stronger).
Do the skills mechanically work? (GS 1, third hit, and GS3 are easily sidestepped, GS5 is really clunky and doesn’t really work).
Is the Greatsword trait any good? (No)

Up the damage and chill of all greatsword skills, change the trait completely, and totally rework Gs5.

Do this and you’ll be able to have a defensive life force and lifesteal generating dagger or a glass cannon high risk high reward greatsword.

MiniEquine.6014:

Regardless of how the GS hits, I haven’t ever had this much fun playing on a Necromancer before.

Fun is nice but long term effectiveness is infinitely more better. Since the fun becomes less important than the effectiveness.

Tzozef.9841:

Enough said.

Reaper Greatsword is just not up to par with the other weapons

“numbers are not final”
Despite how many times they say that, people still keep getting upset about numbers in beta.

Kidel.2057:

Tzozef.9841:

Enough said.

Reaper Greatsword is just not up to par with the other weapons

“numbers are not final”
Despite how many times they say that, people still keep getting upset about numbers in beta.

Because the beta is for highlighting which numbers need to be changed and anet can’t be trusted with balancing on their own.

GS should out dps dagger in a situation where I the player never have to interupt an attack to dodge, never have an attack dodged,blocked,evaded,get blinded,etc,etc.

Yet we all know that that will never happen, so yes in a situation we would never find ourselves in due to the way combat in this game works and the speed of GS attacks. GS should should out dps dagger.

So now to even get close to that GS damage just needs to be increased to make the pay out worth the effort of landing slow attacks in a very active combat system.

Klaeljanus.7695:

The reason why GS has such bad LF gen is because of two traits:
Chilling force and Blighter’s boon.
Combine those with two shouts, Suffer and Weaklings, and you can easily gain your LF back before F1 comes off cooldown.

With Vital Persistance and not using GS/shouts on single target it’s entirely possible to stay in shroud long enough for the shouts to come off CD.

This theory doesn’t work because you’re not forced to use GS with Reaper. If you use dagger wouldn’t you be overpowered then?

Each weapon should have sufficient life force generation depending on the way that spec is supposed to be played. if you’re a melee weapon on a melee spec using a melee shroud, life force should flow from every orifice.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

The problem is exacerbated greatly by the following fact: Reaper Shroud’s auto attack has, unboosted, higher DPS than the greatsword. It his the same amount of targets, but does so faster. So really greatsword has no excuse.

I don’t disagree that the GS could use some love. Either more damage, faster attacks, or built-in stability to increase the reliability of landing hits. However, the excerpt I quoted out should be true. Shroud is a class mechanic that costs a class resource, depletes over time, depletes with incoming damage, and makes you a giant, obvious target for CC and interrupt spam. Shroud should always do more damage than being unshrouded with any weapon.

If Gravedigger were tuned up, with the cooldown reduction set to 100% so you could spam it, and the animation hangs cleaned up (or the damage boosted to compensate) then I could see the logical argument for Gravedigger spam surpassing Shroud damage for sub-50% targets. It would also lend to a nice give-and-take gameplay with shroud: Shroud is better for 50-100% targets, GS better for 0-49% targets, but if you use shroud early in the fight, you might not have it available to use as a defensive tool later in the fight.

Zetsumei.4975:

Kidel.2057:

Tzozef.9841:

Enough said.

Reaper Greatsword is just not up to par with the other weapons

“numbers are not final”
Despite how many times they say that, people still keep getting upset about numbers in beta.

Because the beta is for highlighting which numbers need to be changed and anet can’t be trusted with balancing on their own.

then give suggestions about the numbers without getting upset.
never told you to don’t say anything, just relax.

Atherakhia.4086:

Klaeljanus.7695:

The reason why GS has such bad LF gen is because of two traits:
Chilling force and Blighter’s boon.
Combine those with two shouts, Suffer and Weaklings, and you can easily gain your LF back before F1 comes off cooldown.

With Vital Persistance and not using GS/shouts on single target it’s entirely possible to stay in shroud long enough for the shouts to come off CD.

This theory doesn’t work because you’re not forced to use GS with Reaper. If you use dagger wouldn’t you be overpowered then?

Each weapon should have sufficient life force generation depending on the way that spec is supposed to be played. if you’re a melee weapon on a melee spec using a melee shroud, life force should flow from every orifice.

This. Was actually looking to make the same comment, but it’s been said for me.

Weapon skills need to generate life force. This is a big part of why the axe is so mediocre. And sorry, but Blighter’s Boon is NOT sufficient LF generation in remotely high end SPvP where an entire team isn’t split up and all on completely different targets.

Silverkey.2078:

Jackalrat.5493:

I’ve been whining about the state of the necro GS so much on the forums that I haven’t touched the actual game. Not so much blue in the face as I am…red and blistered in the fingertips.

Any rate, it’s no question that the dagger is a vastly superior weapon. I’d like to see the following changes, in brief (This will be a summary of the giant post I left the other day):

All greatsword skills gain range. At least their intended 170, if not something closer to 200-220ish.

• GS1 gain a bit of damage and Life Force gen. Perhaps some speed or a bit more chill uptime.
• GS2 gain damage or attack speed, whatever it needs to actually be good DPS. It should out damage dagger AA vs <50% HP targets, IMO. Perhaps a bit of LF gen when hitting foes below 50%, as this weapon’s current LF gen is laughable.
• GS3 Give this a dash mechanic, and distribute its life force generation over some other skills.
• GS4 Self buff the caster with protection, eliminate the aftercast root.
• GS5 More range/width + a better targeting function.

Mostly agree but no more LF generation. I think dagger should remain our LF generator for few targets and GS our LF generator for many targets (GS can generate more LF than dagger if you hit many enemies). But yes, the DPS of GS has to be strongly increased to be viable in any game mode.

GS outdoing dagger life force gen really isn’t reliably true unless you’re strictly referring to PvE. How many targets do you honestly expect to hit in PvP with GS #3 and #5? Unfortunately, the number is “1 at best.” – Often zero.

If you had practiced this class in SPvP, you would surely know spectral skills end up being the bulk of your LF gen, which just isn’t sufficient survivability for a cloth melee.

Tristan.5678:

I said dozen of time Gs dps will be far worse than dagger …. only deluded minds hoped for something

i said the exact same thing. i was 100% sure that Reaper GS will be underpower. in POI video you can clearly see the slow attack speed and low dmg, the unnecessary cast times on shouts, GS skills including the elite, and RS skills. if they don’t buff the GS i’ll stick with staff. shouts are not worth the slots so i’ll stick with what i use now

Kidel.2057:

Tzozef.9841:

Enough said.

Reaper Greatsword is just not up to par with the other weapons

“numbers are not final”
Despite how many times they say that, people still keep getting upset about numbers in beta.

if we don’t say anything i’m 100% sure they will mess up. when it comes to Necro they always mess up. if we don’t say that attack speed is slow they will leave it as it is cause they think it’s ok. if people say that it’s slow and needs some tweak they might think about it. i hope so cause GS is very slow. a hammer Warrior does auto attack chain in 1.7s while Reaper in 3s. this is ridiculous. hammer Warrior doesn’t have more than 1s cast time skill while Reaper does. Gravedigger has 1.25s cast time. this skill’s cast time should be 0.5s cast time. no more than that. as it is now it has too much unnecessary and useless animation with solely purpose to cover the long cast time. animation is super-duper-wow and staff, but the 1.25s cast time is not cool at all. neither is the 1s cast time on 3rd auto attack. sword Thief does 2s cripple and weak on 3rd autoattack and has 0.5s cast time. increase it to 1s for “balance” and see how many people will rage