Dagger/Dagger for WvW?

Dagger/Dagger for WvW?

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Posted by: TIFour.1076

TIFour.1076

Hey there,

I am an immigrant from the Mesmer class. I just started playing this game last month and got a Mesmer to 80, only to discover that I cannot use the Mesmer for anything I enjoy doing in this game. So I need to make a new character and, based off from Traits and stuff, the Necromancer looks like it is right up my alley. However, I cannot seem to find any builds or guides that talk about what I would like to do with this Necromancer, so I thought that I would start by asking here

I primarily would like to focus on defense in WvW. I like setting up defensive siege on the map and keeping eyes open for map activity to report to the commanders. I also enjoy repairing damage done to attacked locations on the map and defending locations from attacks with siege. As anyone who plays WvW can guess, this requires a character that can move around the map pretty fast and also a character that is great for AoE disruption of the enemy in the event that I have no siege to rely upon.

As far as I can tell, I know that a Dagger/Dagger Necromancer with Quickening Thirst and the Locust Signet is the route to go, but I do not know where to go from there. Should I focus on power because of the Dagger or Condition through crits and Bleed damage? Also, how is the Necromancer at healing? I know that there are not very many healing centric options in the game, but can the utility of a Necromancer decently help with healing?

I am not really sure at this point. If anyone could give me some pointers or link a guide, that would be wonderful. Thank you for your time

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Posted by: Roe.3679

Roe.3679

Necros can help with healing, but I believe that even if it’s a big feature in a spec that it still won’t compare to some other classes. A lot of our healing is also group focused as opposed to healing ourselves.

I don’t believe quickening thirst and the locust signet stack, so you can use on or the other. FWIW, I still tend to beat most other classes when running around the map if I stick to locust signet, but usually it’s not quite fast enough to get away from someone or someone’s who really want me dead.

But if you are going to use mainhand dagger, you’ll want power instead of conditions.

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Posted by: TIFour.1076

TIFour.1076

I don’t believe quickening thirst and the locust signet stack, so you can use on or the other. FWIW

Well that sucks with Signet of the Locust and Quickening Thirst. I just looked it up as well and apparently the game mechanic is the highest Movement Speed buff trumps the others :/ Thank you for pointing that out for me before I made a mistake :-p I guess I will just have to somehow buff my Swiftness duration to 100% then and trait the Warhorn fully to have Perma-Swiftness.

Movement speed trumps all other goals with my intentions.

I guess the Boon duration focus though shifts my whole build focus to applying boons then.

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Posted by: Aiden.6483

Aiden.6483

Getting perma-swiftness on a necro is not that hard, but it’s complicated (runes of centaur I think it is, spectral walk, warhorn and some boon duration) but IMO it’s just not worth it. I feel that if you want to be mobile, an efficient scout and a quick repair guy there’s no denying warrior and thief are the highest mobility classes in game at the moment, meaning those will accomplish all your goals fairly well.

Mediocre multiclasser,
PvP & WvW roaming

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Posted by: Roe.3679

Roe.3679

Getting perma-swiftness on a necro is not that hard, but it’s complicated (runes of centaur I think it is, spectral walk, warhorn and some boon duration) but IMO it’s just not worth it. I feel that if you want to be mobile, an efficient scout and a quick repair guy there’s no denying warrior and thief are the highest mobility classes in game at the moment, meaning those will accomplish all your goals fairly well.

Yes, there is nothing more mobile than a thief, and certain ranger and warrior builds have a lot of mobility as well.

Necros are probably one of the least mobile classes, ahead of the mesmer only, probably.

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Posted by: War Mourner.5168

War Mourner.5168

Spectral walk + warhorn with banshee’s wail will (literally only just) get you perm swiftness. Having spectral mastery gives comfortable perma swiftness, whereas having both spectral mastery and banshee’s wail gives very easy to maintain perm swiftness.

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Posted by: Azraeel.1238

Azraeel.1238

Mobility is the weakest point a Necromancer has. True as many stated above you can have swiftness, but you won’t be able to disengage from a fight like some other classes. So if you were defending a point, and 5 people jumped on you, most probably you will end up dead, unless they extremely suck. lol. Most people who want to play a Necromancer in WvW, is solely for zergs.

You were lost of whether to go condition or power because MH dagger is power, and OH dagger is condition. However, there is no doubt about it, if you want MH dagger, then power is the way to go, otherwise scepter for condition. As for healing, going 30 into blood trait can make your wells heal, but you will lose damage output, and the healing isn’t ALL too great.

So the roles you are looking for are better done with other classes such as thieves or guardians.

80 Necromancer (Main) | 80 Thief | 80 Guardian | 80 Warrior
Engineer and Elementalist in progress…

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Posted by: TIFour.1076

TIFour.1076

The problem is, Warrior and Thief are just not appealing to me. I do not like either of their class mechanics. But now I am curious if Guardian can achieve the whole Swiftness deal.

Thank you for your replies.

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Posted by: Durante.7913

Durante.7913

It sounds like what you want is very similar to the build I currently play in WvW.

It’s a power/toughness wellomancer with axe/warhorn and staff. Utility skills are spectral walk, well of suffering and well of corruption. You get perma (or 98%) swiftness between spectral walk and locust swarm, and 4 ground-targeted marks and 2 fast wells for pretty good disruption.

Build sucks at 1v1 and single target DPS though. And as pointed out above, you really can’t disengage well with a Necro, regardless of build.

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Posted by: Dredlord.8076

Dredlord.8076

It sounds like what you want is very similar to the build I currently play in WvW.

It’s a power/toughness wellomancer with axe/warhorn and staff. Utility skills are spectral walk, well of suffering and well of corruption. You get perma (or 98%) swiftness between spectral walk and locust swarm, and 4 ground-targeted marks and 2 fast wells for pretty good disruption.

Build sucks at 1v1 and single target DPS though. And as pointed out above, you really can’t disengage well with a Necro, regardless of build.

sounds like something similar to my build, I am blown away you think the single target damage sucks, are you not using axe 2 and lifeblast at all?

I rolled a norn for the extra mobility and the ease of getting into a keep already with a zerg parked at the door.

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Posted by: subcrazy.1098

subcrazy.1098

My last video before I stoped playing is power link to channel in SIG. Most of it is small group play so you know. Ohh and its d/d and staff

LavaFluxx – Ele
Ankle Bitër – Necro – Paxa
Necro and Ele small man videos:Necro/Ele Videos

(edited by subcrazy.1098)

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Posted by: Dylninja.4216

Dylninja.4216

I think OH Dagger is not just a condition weapon, sure it applies bleeding, however, it also applies weakness which helps reduce damage taken so much when im runnin glass. It also has a nice condition transfer skill that blinds. Add that to Weakening Shroud you can get 100% weakness uptime

I roll a a/f + d/d glass necro and small man group a lot.

[PRO] The Protectorate of Fort Aspenwood
Shrouded Bomber

(edited by Dylninja.4216)

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Posted by: Blaine Tog.8304

Blaine Tog.8304

I primarily would like to focus on defense in WvW. I like setting up defensive siege on the map and keeping eyes open for map activity to report to the commanders. I also enjoy repairing damage done to attacked locations on the map and defending locations from attacks with siege. As anyone who plays WvW can guess, this requires a character that can move around the map pretty fast and also a character that is great for AoE disruption of the enemy in the event that I have no siege to rely upon.

It sounds like you want either a Thief or an Elementalist for that. Necros are great in WvW, but if you’re specifically interested in map mobility, it’s hard to imagine a worse profession. Maybe the Guardian, who doesn’t have passive Movement Speed boosts, but I dunno.

Thieves make for the best scouts, period. They can tail a zerg with near-total impunity, get into any besieged building with stealth and teleports, and spam #2 on their shortbow for serious sustained AoE damage. It’s only 900 range, but you can use it on the inside of a door to deal major damage to the people on the outside of the door with 0 chance of retaliation (except, of course, for the boon Retaliation).

Elementalists are also pretty good scouts, though they have a harder time escaping than Thieves after their string of nerfs. It’s also virtually impossible to prevent an Ele from making it into a tower: they can use blinks and invulnerability moves to get near the tower and then pop Vapor Form if they fall to make it inside. Once inside, you can switch to Staff and get some of the best anti-zerg AoEs in the game. I tend to prefer throwing spells on my Ele to using arrow carts.

That said, if you keep your distance from the zerg, there are a few tricks you can use as a Necro to scout fairly safely. A purely defensive build with 20 in Death Magic for Reaper’s Protection and 30 in Blood Magic for all the Life Siphoning effects would be very difficult for roamers to take out quickly, potentially giving you time to escape to the nearest tower. It isn’t going to be the sure escape of a Thief, though; you’re going to have to work for your escape.

Making it inside besieged towers can also be tough for Necros as we don’t have any ways to avoid getting hit by the entire zerg. What you could do is pack some stunbreakers and start in Death Shroud, dodge twice, stunbreak when your DS dies, then pop Plague and hope you don’t get Immobilized for too long before making it to the tower. I’ve done it before, but it’s far from a sure thing.

Once you’re in the tower, our Staff can be really good for area denial or damage, but you’re not going to be able to deal as much damage as a Thief spamming #2 on the shortbow or an Ele blowing all their spells. Both of those guys are way better for taking out rams from the inside, for example.

THAT SAID, Necros are really strong in WvW. Build them power or condition, go class or tanky, take wells or corruptions or spectral skills, focus on Life Siphoning or even AoE healing, all those builds have their place and can work. We excel in zerg fights (as long as you make sure to position well and keep Plague slotted as an oh-kitten button) and can even roam pretty well as long as you avoid fighting more than 2 people at a time, but as far as mobility and disengagement go, those just aren’t supposed to be what the Necro is good at.

(continued in next post)

I main Ele and Necro, though I have an alt of each profession at level 80.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.

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Posted by: Blaine Tog.8304

Blaine Tog.8304

As far as I can tell, I know that a Dagger/Dagger Necromancer with Quickening Thirst and the Locust Signet is the route to go, but I do not know where to go from there. Should I focus on power because of the Dagger or Condition through crits and Bleed damage? Also, how is the Necromancer at healing? I know that there are not very many healing centric options in the game, but can the utility of a Necromancer decently help with healing?

As others have mentioned, take either Quickening Thirst or Signet of the Locust , not both at the same time. They’re both really good options for map movement, though. Signet of the Locust’s active is kinda bad but you could always swap it out before fighting.

Another popular MS option is to take Warhorn and slot Spectral Walk. With some boon duration, you can get near perma-swiftness by spamming Locust Swarm and Spectral Walk, and you get true perma-swiftness if you take the Spectral cooldown trait (the Warhorn cooldown trait is pretty strong too). The downside of this is that you don’t have Spectral Walk available to use all the time, but if you get caught in a fight, you just have to stall until it comes back (whereas you’d be stuck with Signet of the Locust).

As for healing, you’ll heal varying opinions about it. I’ve personally never been all that impressed with Necro healing. We don’t have the worst sustain in the game (Consume Conditions alone is great for this), but Life Siphoning isn’t quite good enough to heal as well as, say, an Elementalist with 20-30 in Water. The big issues are that a) Life Siphoning doesn’t scale with anything except number of hits so you get wimpy healing against one target and pretty ok healing against 5 targets, but if you’re roaming and get caught by 5 targets it’s still not nearly enough to save you from the focus fire of 5 people, and b) our health bar can’t be healed while we’re in Death Shroud. I tried a Life Siphoning well build in a few zerg fights some weeks about and it actually seemed to work pretty well, as long as I was careful to stay out of DS until I really really needed it. But I don’t think it would’ve worked so well if I were running by myself.

EDIT: Oh, and D/D is just fine for WvW. You’ll want to stack power (and probably precision and crit damage) to take advantage of #1’s insane DPS, use #3 for preventing escape, and use #4 and #5 for defense. The bleeds will be kinda pointless but at least they’ll help cover the Weakness (which will eviscerate any power spec’s damage).

I main Ele and Necro, though I have an alt of each profession at level 80.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.

(edited by Blaine Tog.8304)

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Posted by: KinXiao.6240

KinXiao.6240

Wow thanks a lot Blaine for this explanation ! Do you have any build for Roaming CondiNecro I could give a look at ? Would be awesome =)
Thanks !