Dagger change idea
For maximum AOE, I usually do locust swarm (Warhorn skill 5), throw down two wells (corruption and suffering), and then go into DS and use skill 4. The numbers are nice.
However, I would love to see a little splash damage with dagger, I mean the Axe for warriors… hits all around, and has almost the same single damage as the dagger.
Edit: fixed silly filter thinking warriors ….. hits as warrior s….hits lol
80 Necromancer (Main) | 80 Thief | 80 Guardian | 80 Warrior
Engineer and Elementalist in progress…
Engineer and Elementalist in progress…
(edited by Azraeel.1238)
Dagger single target damage is insane, it isn’t the place for us to get cleave.
Dagger single target damage is insane, it isn’t the place for us to get cleave.
Insane is an overstatement, but you can’t have cleave on dagger becasue the extra procs on lifesteals would put it over the top, particularly if they ever fix siphoning the way the should by making it scale with a stat (probably healing).
My wishes for dagger are: Dark pact going to a 1/2 cast time (so that well bombing gets less reliant on ally cc/golem kitten charge), Life siphon to lock onto the closest enemy/not be castable without a target (but continue the channel if target goes away) and maybe a bit better actual power scailing (base damage is fine, so it works with critting, but it doesnt even double its damage when your double your power).
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
My wishes for dagger are: Dark pact going to a 1/2 cast time (so that well bombing gets less reliant on ally cc/golem kitten charge), Life siphon to lock onto the closest enemy/not be castable without a target (but continue the channel if target goes away) and maybe a bit better actual power scailing (base damage is fine, so it works with critting, but it doesnt even double its damage when your double your power).
Doubling your power doubles the damage component of life siphon.
Edit: just like every other weapon skill in the game.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
(edited by Softspoken.2410)
Dagger single target damage is insane, it isn’t the place for us to get cleave.
Insane is an overstatement, but you can’t have cleave on dagger becasue the extra procs on lifesteals would put it over the top, particularly if they ever fix siphoning the way the should by making it scale with a stat (probably healing).
Make only dagger #1 cleave.
If it’s insane, every warrior is insane.
Doubling your power doubles the damage component of life siphon.
Edit: just like every other weapon skill in the game.
I ment the aa chain, it has a high base damage, but its total power scailing is quite weaker than from most other auto attacks (a lot like with Lichs Deathly Claws), you dont notice it till you do the comparisons of power does between steady weapon and normal weapon damage (not the full damage done just the increase in damage after you add more power to your stats).
And no life siphon is one of the rare skills that has a 1:1 relation to power in total.
Example of a low scailing high base skill is deathly claws (under 0.3 scailing to 0.4 when on max weapon ratio hit), to a low base of 18 damage but high max scailing from our dear 100 blades warrior channel (over 3.1 – most of it being in the last hit). Its like in LoL Veigar vs LB, sure LB has higher early game damage/good base, but veigar will just be better the more stats (ap in their case power in our) he gets.
Another such example (this time in necro), but for utility skills would be Signet of the Locust (pretty good level 2 damage, but kitten/close to no change at 80) vs well of suffering (ok for a aoe early on but obviously way worse than what it gets at 80).
Ofc tooltip damage does double since tooltips are derpy and dont say everything (they even think all our enemies are in medium armor, what is kinda true for mobs, but still stupid to do instead of having a option/toggle for full calculation).
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
(edited by Andele.1306)
If you are looking for AoE fun, Axe 3 (retaliation) warhorn 5, drop well of suffering, DS 4… if anything is left standing it was probably a champ. Swap to dagger and single target gank since it will be the only thing left standing.
I wouldn’t mind more multi-target besides staff, but I think axe would be most like candidate as far as being in sink with other classes axes. Dagger has always been single target across the classes.
Doubling your power doubles the damage component of life siphon.
Edit: just like every other weapon skill in the game.
I ment the aa chain, it has a high base damage, but its total power scailing is quite weaker than from most other auto attacks (a lot like with Lichs Deathly Claws), you dont notice it till you do the comparisons of power does between steady weapon and normal weapon damage (not the full damage done just the increase in damage after you add more power to your stats).
And no life siphon is one of the rare skills that has a 1:1 relation to power in total.
Example of a low scailing high base skill is deathly claws (under 0.3 scailing), to a low base of 18 damage but high max scailing from our dear 100 blades warrior channel (over 3.1 – most of it being in the last hit). Its like in LoL Veigar vs LB, sure LB has higher early game damage/good base, but veigar will just be better the more stats (ap in their case power in our) he gets.Ofc tooltip damage does double since tooltips are derpy and dont say everything (they even think all our enemies are in medium armor, what is kinda true for mobs, but still stupid to do instead of having a option/toggle for full calculation).
Every single weapon skill in the game uses a similar formula to calculate the damage applied, not taking into account criticals.
Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / Armor
Given this formula, doubling your power doubles your weapon damage, because every single factor in there is multiplicative. Weapon skills don’t have a base static damage number and then additional amounts added on to that, they have a multiplier coefficient that determines how much of your Power * Weapon strength score you get to use. So while certain weapon skills will scale better than others, doubling your power will double the damage done by any weapon skill.
I do not know if all utility skills follow this same trend: I have heard many times that minions, for example, do not scale with your power and I am inclined to believe it.
Do not bring LoL up again. Just. Don’t.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
(edited by Softspoken.2410)
Dagger single target damage is insane, it isn’t the place for us to get cleave.
Insane is an overstatement, but you can’t have cleave on dagger becasue the extra procs on lifesteals would put it over the top, particularly if they ever fix siphoning the way the should by making it scale with a stat (probably healing).
Make only dagger #1 cleave.
If it’s insane, every warrior is insane.
^ This. I was saying, not only just dagger1, but the first part of it. Necrotic Slash only. Not Stab or Bite, which are the two that give lifeforce.
If you are looking for AoE fun, Axe 3 (retaliation) warhorn 5, drop well of suffering, DS 4… if anything is left standing it was probably a champ. Swap to dagger and single target gank since it will be the only thing left standing.
I wouldn’t mind more multi-target besides staff, but I think axe would be most like candidate as far as being in sink with other classes axes. Dagger has always been single target across the classes.
My typical “combo” is Warhorn 5, Well of Suffering and Corruption, then Life Transfer.
I guess what I should be saying is. I would like a melee cleaving weapon, but since it doesnt look like any professions will get new weapons until waaaay down the road (if ever), I am just trying to find a way for Necromancers to get on the “LFG only Zerker Warrior ping gear” level, without making them over-the-top broken.
So, since it seems people didn’t catch this detail the first time I said it: only Necrotic Slash. Just the first move in the auto-attack chain. This would avoid pumping up life-force that you get from Necrotic Stab and Bite (2nd and 3rd in chain).
I really don’t think this would be too broken. With Wars being able to Cleave with Hundred Blades and every auto-attack. Their DPS still comes close to necro single target, and if you add in extra targets, the total damage is far greater.
I don’t think there’s any need for dagger to cleave (If i it did, life force gen would be much lower or non-existant) , the only thing that needs changing imo is giving siphon healing a tiny boost and i’ll be happy.
So, since it seems people didn’t catch this detail the first time I said it: only Necrotic Slash. Just the first move in the auto-attack chain. This would avoid pumping up life-force that you get from Necrotic Stab and Bite (2nd and 3rd in chain).
Skills generating life force fill a percentage of your life force bar, not a percentage of the damage dealt.
So, since it seems people didn’t catch this detail the first time I said it: only Necrotic Slash. Just the first move in the auto-attack chain. This would avoid pumping up life-force that you get from Necrotic Stab and Bite (2nd and 3rd in chain).
Skills generating life force fill a percentage of your life force bar, not a percentage of the damage dealt.
I think the point is that skills that generate life force tend to do so per target hit. You can see it with locust swarm, necrotic grasp, marks with the soul marks trait, and life transfer, at least. So adding cleave / multiple targets to the 2 & 3 steps of the chain would make it so one dagger chain on stacked enemies could conceivably generate 18% life force, regardless of damage.
Edit: I was wrong about Soul Marks, which is only funny to me because of whose post it was that mislead me on that count.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
(edited by Softspoken.2410)
If you are looking for AoE fun, Axe 3 (retaliation) warhorn 5, drop well of suffering, DS 4… if anything is left standing it was probably a champ. Swap to dagger and single target gank since it will be the only thing left standing.
I wouldn’t mind more multi-target besides staff, but I think axe would be most like candidate as far as being in sink with other classes axes. Dagger has always been single target across the classes.
My typical “combo” is Warhorn 5, Well of Suffering and Corruption, then Life Transfer.
I guess what I should be saying is. I would like a melee cleaving weapon, but since it doesnt look like any professions will get new weapons until waaaay down the road (if ever), I am just trying to find a way for Necromancers to get on the “LFG only Zerker Warrior ping gear” level, without making them over-the-top broken.
So, since it seems people didn’t catch this detail the first time I said it: only Necrotic Slash. Just the first move in the auto-attack chain. This would avoid pumping up life-force that you get from Necrotic Stab and Bite (2nd and 3rd in chain).
I really don’t think this would be too broken. With Wars being able to Cleave with Hundred Blades and every auto-attack. Their DPS still comes close to necro single target, and if you add in extra targets, the total damage is far greater.
All is well, I still think if a weapon were to get a cleave/cone it would be the axe, my vote. Many Necros already use dagger because of its great damage potential, the axe seems to be the current ugly poster child, especially since its auto attack is a little underwhelming damage wise. If it were to be turned into a frontal cleavy 3 target cone the damage would be fine as it could now be hitting multiple targets making up for it.
Daggers are already pretty strong as it is. I just want to see the Axe get some more use instead of a quick battery fill and retaliation shield before I swap back to my dagger.
Some mobility to daggers its melee weapon mostly. Change Dark Pact into teleport or leap with iImmobilized.
Doubling your power doubles the damage component of life siphon.
Edit: just like every other weapon skill in the game.
I ment the aa chain, it has a high base damage, but its total power scailing is quite weaker than from most other auto attacks (a lot like with Lichs Deathly Claws), you dont notice it till you do the comparisons of power does between steady weapon and normal weapon damage (not the full damage done just the increase in damage after you add more power to your stats).
And no life siphon is one of the rare skills that has a 1:1 relation to power in total.
Example of a low scailing high base skill is deathly claws (under 0.3 scailing), to a low base of 18 damage but high max scailing from our dear 100 blades warrior channel (over 3.1 – most of it being in the last hit). Its like in LoL Veigar vs LB, sure LB has higher early game damage/good base, but veigar will just be better the more stats (ap in their case power in our) he gets.Ofc tooltip damage does double since tooltips are derpy and dont say everything (they even think all our enemies are in medium armor, what is kinda true for mobs, but still stupid to do instead of having a option/toggle for full calculation).
Every single weapon skill in the game uses a similar formula to calculate the damage applied, not taking into account criticals.
Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / Armor
Given this formula, doubling your power doubles your weapon damage, because every single factor in there is multiplicative. Weapon skills don’t have a base static damage number and then additional amounts added on to that, they have a multiplier coefficient that determines how much of your Power * Weapon strength score you get to use. So while certain weapon skills will scale better than others, doubling your power will double the damage done by any weapon skill.
I do not know if all utility skills follow this same trend: I have heard many times that minions, for example, do not scale with your power and I am inclined to believe it.
Do not bring LoL up again. Just. Don’t.
Please learn to play: Skill Coefficient = ( Tooltip Damage * Target’s Armor ) / ( Weapon Damage * Power )
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
Every single weapon skill in the game uses a similar formula to calculate the damage applied, not taking into account criticals.
Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / Armor
Given this formula, doubling your power doubles your weapon damage, because every single factor in there is multiplicative. Weapon skills don’t have a base static damage number and then additional amounts added on to that, they have a multiplier coefficient that determines how much of your Power * Weapon strength score you get to use. So while certain weapon skills will scale better than others, doubling your power will double the damage done by any weapon skill.
Please learn to play: Skill Coefficient = ( Tooltip Damage * Target’s Armor ) / ( Weapon Damage * Power )
You rearranged the formula I referenced from the wiki.
Relevance?
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
(edited by Softspoken.2410)
Daggers need a simple change; Change 2 to a targeting leap that siphons health when it connects, like a vampiric bite.
Now 3 skill combos with the 2 skill. Oh also make the 3 skill do more damage if it hits an enemy with conditions.
Also about the daggers damage, well good- is still NO where near warrior tier damage. So I don’t know where people get off this idea that the dagger is crazy damage. It’s just currently the best flat damage weapon necros have at the moment.
yeah, dagger 2 needs to be a melee attack of some sort. A short leap like Garo suggested is best, but having a ranged channel has poor synergy with a melee autoattack.
The dagger should not have a cleaving attack..
And it sounds like you want another warrior when you say dagger should do the damage of an melee warrior..
Dagger should just have some good mechanics.. like d3 to immobilizie and teleport to the target. then changes to a skill that teleports the necro back to the location where he stands before activating skill 3. That + leap finisher would give the dagger necro a nice mechanic, would buff the attack without being something warrior or another class already has. And the long activationtime and noticable animation (related to possible dogde) are reasonable then.
I think this would fit well in the playstyle for daggernecros because with this skill they can immobilize, teleport to the enemy, then set up their well of suffering and teleport back. The second teleport should only available for 2 or 3 seconds to make sure that if the daggernecros wants to attack, he can’t longer teleport back to safe himself.
And i can imagine a realy nice animation for this. When the necromancer cuts himself just freeze a transparent light gray/green image of the necromancer at this location till the backteleport expires or is used. Then it blows away by the wind (like the green line you have with spectral walk) This should just not look like an phantasm or clone and should look more like an ritual =)
And for the theorycrafting guys. That would buff the dagger not in damage but would make it more reliable in combat and buff the funfactor by over 9000!
I know what you think..“theres no way that can be right”
(edited by Flowerpower.6795)
No, MH dagger is a single target weapon, and it’s the only one we have at that. Everything else including axe has aoe, focus as well via bouncing.
Wells and staff and putrid explosions and charge and life transfer and jesus we have so many aoe stuff…. We dont really need more haha.
I don’t know where people are getting off that d2 and d3 have no synergy. They work beautifully together.
immobilize to back off a little bit and then d2 for a free heal unimposed. Only works of course against melee. But it does work quite nicely.