Guild Wars 2

Right, um… I havn’t made a necro yet but I’m very interested in daggers. I’ve never been really interested in staves even though I play an elementalist.

Right now, there are practically zero videos on youtube (as far as I could tell) utilizing daggers as a main weapon set in WvW. I did find a couple for sPvP but they were both outdated and featured a very awful player (sorry) behind the character.

So can anyone tell me a detailed rundown on daggers, traits and gears to go with it, the strengths and weaknesses, how daggers typically plays like and its corresponding tactics and strategies, and so on?

Dagger Mainhand in my opinion is one of the high risk, good reward weapons. In general, compared to condition necros, Power ones will always be closer in the fight and thus get hit more, but Dagger is kind of not easy to get a hang of at first. WvW is slightly harder as your mobility REALLY stands out to be inferior in terms of other classes. Still, its useable.

In my opinion, its one of the more ‘fun’ weapons Necromancer has and does great damage (3k-4k end auto chain. rest of hits do about 1k-2k). It plays great with wells and makes good use of the 30 spite trait, Close to death (20% more damage after 50% hp on enemy). You can usually spike down a number of classes quick through sheer brute force, and since you are a necromancer, you have enough movement-altering CC to really keep on the opponent when you get close. Life force upkeep is generally good, and gets better when combined with Warhorn’s locust. Unlike axe, you can attack stealthed players. These are it’s strengths.

Now for its cons. First thing is that Lifesteal on 2 is horrible (or lifesteal on necro period =/) . Its good for thieves who you know they arestealthing as it still hits them and if you have to range a bit, but still its kinda meh. Obviously, while it is good damage, you will never out burst classes like warrior and Thief. Because of this, as a Dagger player its usually good to take Spectral armor or a defensive offhand like offhand dagger. That way, you can atleast flip into DS to negate theirs and ‘trade’ or weaken them. The other bad part is the range itself vs. Necromancer’s state of the game. They obviously aren’t fast in terms of getting out of heated situations, so in WvW you will often find situations where you wish you had spectral walk and could juke someone or a flesh wurm somewhere. Point is, you are slow so engaging has to be done carefully and watch everything around you so you know when its time to just GTFO. Blind is also a big enemy to you, making thieves a frustrating thing to deal with period. Staff helps this a bit along with Deathly shackles (They both AOE like crazy, and deathly has an immobilize! Its nice if this hits!), but a condition Necro would have done almost 2 times better than you in the same situation.

In terms of traits and gear, most will always tell you to go 30 into spite for Close to Death, but after that alot is fair game. Big common build is 30/10/0/0/30. This gives you decent defense and DPS across the board via, along more crit chance in Death shroud (making you have a reliable ranged option in terms of power to take down runners) or even stability. Gear is a toss up also. Some run knight armor and zerker accessories, while others mess around with tankier setups (PvT armor for example). I personally go the common build with Valk weapons, Knight armor and Zerker Accessories and just rely on death shroud and defensive utilities for my defense. (Spectral Armor, Well of Power, Etc).

Anyway, that’s just my personal thoughts on dagger. It takes some getting used to, but I enjoy it, more so than D/D Ele.

T_T;; I hope I didn’t type too much. Il try to fix any errors if I find some o_ o;;

I’m about to start playing again, ill breathe some life back into dagger necro!

Here’s roughly the dagger build I like to use in PvE.

It’s a very active, in-your-face style of play with very high single-target damage and apocalyptic point-blank AoE damage.

Here’s how I approach a fight:

1) Is this going to be a tough fight? If so, eat food and use oil, then swap out something more useful for Signet of the Locust. The perma-speed is invaluable for map travel but the signet’s active is pretty bad in a fight. Well of Darkness can be a great option, as can Spectral Armor/Walk if I think I’ll need a stunbreaker. When in doubt, slot Signet of Spite for the passive and don’t use it unless you need to Blind+Weaken+Cripple a tough mob.

Sometimes I’ll skip this step if I’m feeling lazy.

2) Pop Flesh Golem and Blood is Power. I like Runes of Strength so it is imperative that I keep Might up all the time. When Blood is Power ends, pop into DS and get at least #1 off before laying down the hurt.

One fun trick: if you use Blood is Power when you don’t have a target, you don’t get the bleeds. If you’re fighting a bunch of weak mobs rather than one big one, it’s generally best to use it this way since the bleeds on you just won’t be worth it.

3) Drop Well of Suffering in the middle of the enemy group and laugh as it melts them.

4) Autoattack something. Dagger 1 hits extremely, extremely hard and will also rapidly restore your Life Force.

5) Use Dagger 4 and 5 as necessary. Conditions generally aren’t that big a deal in PvE but they can add up. Weakness in particular should be removed ASAP since it destroys your damage. It’s also a great debuff when up against superior numbers.

Dagger #3 isn’t useful all that often in PvE but it can help you kite some big mob or trap someone in your Well who otherwise might feel like wandering. I basically never use #2 unless my heal is on cooldown, I’m out of LF or DS is on cooldown, I’m out of dodges, and I’m kiting around at very low health in a scramble to survive.

6) Death Shroud can be used either offensively or defensively with this build. Obviously you want to make sure you’re keeping 100% Might uptime with DS1, but DS 4 deals extremely high AoE damage. DS4+Well of Suffering accounts for the majority of your AoE, so try to aim them for maximum effect.

DS1 between 0 and 600 range deals slightly less damage than your Dagger autoattack, but because it pierces and stacks Vulnerability on your foe and Might on you, it can sometimes (in group situations especially) be a good idea to use it. If you hit at least 2 targets, you win on damage.

I think that’s about it for the basics. While leveling a Necro, I suggest you use Minions for your utilities, probably going at least 20 points into Death for Flesh of the Master. This build can be kinda tricky to run in open-world PvE before you get all the traits and stats together, whereas minion builds are insanely easy to use.

I used to hate dagger a lot since it is such puny range and doesn’t cleave, but it is quite nice if you can get the immobilized off. In WvW, I like dagger because it isn’t where near badly telegraphed like axe is, well except dagger 3.

I do 0/20/0/20/30. In WvW, a necro finds it tough to go into close quarter combat due to stuns and knockdowns, so Foot in the Grave makes DS an excellent way for you to close the gap, as well as when they try to kite you. Usually I like to briefly switch it or out use life transfer to take out people that try to run away, then I’ll be in their face and stabbing them with the dagger.

I use wells (Suffering and Power), and spectral walk. this gives me 2 stun breaks as well. With spectral mastery and warhorn (also traited), I can have 100% swiftness uptime. You may of course take chilling darkness and plague too for big zerg fights.

Locust swarm is most excellent with dagger, and will greatly increase your damage output. The cripple and swiftness makes anyone that gets caught in it less likely to run away and the most amusing thing is that it easily procs crit hit sigils, such as sigil of fre.

In WvW, my gearing is a kittenaotic, since I’m not going to bother with soldier’s trinkets just for wvw. Basically armor is half knight, half soldier, and rest is zerker. It’s very survivable, at least compared to when I just used zerker.

In PvE, of course soul reaping isn’t necessary, and I’d imagine people would toss it in spite and whatnot.

Edit: They censor Fl ash? Really?

One finally thing to remember is to keep moving when using warhorn or dagger skills. In PvE it doesn’t matter, in wvw they usually don’t let you just stand there and hit them.

Just for funsies I thought I’d try throwing a simple dagger build together. It is single target focused – trys to give you what gap closers we have with grasp and dark path, a few chills to slow them down. It also has strong DS generation for being more tanky and getting in as often as possible so you can finish them off as they run away with 100% crit LB.

I’m not putting serious stock in this, and it’s just an idea for a dagger build that could work – I’m sure veterans can vastly improve on it.

Build

Godless.1857:

…improve on it.

Build

(First of all, I’m a PvP necro, so below is mostly for WvW/PvP)

The build overall seems slightly off both trait and skill wise. It looks as though it doesn’t quite know what it wants to do.

The trait set is rather defensive(Blood, and to lesser extend Soul Reaping), yet the gear is offensive.

Blood magic isn’t really needed at all – your damage comes from dagger 1, which has no cooldown, and dagger 2 should recharge fast enough as it is. The only reason to ever take Dagger Mastery would be for the immobilize, but even then you’d probably be better off going for something else. Quickening Thirst on the other hand isn’t worth spending 20 points for IMO.

My advice would be to go into spite if running a glassy build. I usually run 30/10/0/0/30, but you could give a 20/20/0/0/30 a try.

Next, utilities. I’m not a fan of spectral armor, and without quickening thirst you’ll probably want some mobility. If your really want to keep that spectral focus, I’d go for Spectral Walk instead. I’d personally go for wells, but I don’t want to change your build TOO much.

Basically, your build after slight tweaking: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQRAod4YjMah7Vbqb07JEIF7CuEpAZUGqHwD68hA-jUzAYrBRTRCExBkABn8jayLgJwkV60YrgCRqFMVJRUt3QRzfIULEwoFA-w
What I usually use: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAodWjMah7ZaWaM8JEoHvHu4MRFGGqHrD78hA-jEzAYLBRCCIhBg+Al8KiGbboIasqFMVZSVmRW7C4NUWdHRGA-w

I just started playing again, been away 8 months… but I made a build today that worked pretty well in WvW.

It may be weird.. but bear with me. 20/15/0/20/15. I was tempted to go 30 into spite for close to death, or 30 into reaping for the crit chance in DS… but I stuck with this build mainly for the combination of stats I get from it and also the siphon talents from Blood.

Many players disregard the Blood tree but I am very fond of it. I find that all the little siphons really do add up, and I am very hard to kill.

I use dagger/axe/focus. I could use another offhand but my focus cooldowns are only 15 seconds and I use it a lot. My armor is Knights gear with zerker orbs. same with accessories and weapons. For sigils I use 5% crit chance and blood sigil. What this setup gives me is a nice balance between defense and damage. I have 3100 attack rating plus 53% crit chance and 45% crit damage, and my 2700 armor and 22000HP keep me alive a very long time when combined with all my siphons.

Normal hits heal me for 50ish, crits heal me for 58ish, sigil heals for 260ish, dagger #2 if allowed to fully channel feels like a second heal button sometimes. I also use omnom ghosts which heal a lot as well on crits. I also have spectral armor proc at 50% health.

I swap a lot between axe and dagger to use axe #2 for burst, dagger auto attack for dps. well of suffering for AE or burst, locust signet for mobility and an extra heal, and spectral armor for a stunbreak/protection. Sometimes I change the signet for spectral walk for another stunbreak.

@yski.7642

Thanks for the input! It wasn’t a serious attempt at a build per se – I just wanted to see what I could come up with that used daggers as the main weapon. I wanted it to be able to get you to melee range, and either keep the target close with chill/cripple or close the gap with grasp or dark path. Then as you are in their face, toughness and some healing along with good LF regen for either shroud dancing, or finishing them off with some nice big life blast crits.

I was also trying to avoid wells, so that if combat is “on the run” you don’t blow a well and have it only tick once or twice usefully.

@Stx.4857

Looks interesting. I wanted to avoid using axe in the one I threw together, for no real reason, other than I wanted to try and come up with something pure dagger based. It does sound like your build would be fun to play.

I see a lot of build arguments about not being optimal, and while building to be optimal can be interesting to some, I’m liking the idea of trying out some strange seeming builds to see if I can come up with an odd way of doing something that makes an interesting or fun playstyle.

Something I’ve been theory crafting while at work.
Based around dagger and DS dancing.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQRBIRdG2IjW1e4m6GDfCA6xu46ckijXmSB8oD-TwAA1CnIwRhjDHDOScs4MIYVwWk5HA

*Axe is there incase you need to do damage from 600 rather 130range

Just wanna say thanks a ton to everybody for the advice!

Godless.1857:

@yski.7642

I was also trying to avoid wells, so that if combat is “on the run” you don’t blow a well and have it only tick once or twice usefully.

That’s why you have that dagger immobilize. You don’t let them choose whether they stay in the wells or not

Wells are great for bursting down people, the only tricky part is landing that immobilize. You also don’t want to let them heal, so typically when well bursting my combo goes something like this:

Dagger 3, wells, focus 4, dagger 1. As soon as I see that heal animation or something else I don’t like, I go DS and fear them, usually followed by life blasts or alternatively more dagger. Wells + DS 5 and 4 (with fear when needed) or wells + Lich Form is also lovely when someone is trying to revive.

Basically, wells are the most offensive option necromancers have. If it’s (direct) damage you want, wells are the way to go, though there’s nothing wrong with cc/defense focused spectral skills either as far as I know.

power necro is the lesser right now, but that’s just my opinion. you may have some fun with it.

try Dagger/Dagger
with spectral utilities
and power gear

always make your own build. you MUST get to know your traits and skills.

others have given you a lot of good info – except the part about wells.. wells are better in spvp.. in wvw it’s pretty hard to keep people in them. and the guy who said siphon is bad.. it can be great.. especially on a power/crit build with the siphon life with each crit minor trait.

d/d minion builds are popular and strong 1v1 but once again i think they suffer from the freedom of a larger map such as in wvw.
.. but i just hate pets so maybe that’s just me.