Guild Wars 2

So i asked my guild mate to help me to test this, and i thank him for the help. I traited the thief for as much damage as i could, I asked my friend to enter deathshroud, waited until he was about 5% in DS, and crited him with my backstab. The outcome can be seen in the attached screen, the overkill damage taken in DS does not transfer on life, it is clearly a bug. Please consider to fix this, because i had a necroillion cases when this happened, and it is frustrating as hell that i waste my damage on such things.

I don’t think it’s a bug. What I do believe happens is when the necro takes more damage than his total health in one hit, it’ll kill him even if he’s in DS. However damage done while in DS does not transfer to his actual HP even if you dealt more damage than he had left in DS. I mean if the damage was transferred to HP the DS’ defensive abilities would be kind of pathetic.

Besides why are you even complaining? You’re able to deal 8k damage in one hit, look at that necro hitting you for 200-500 damage. The necro is one of the classes that deals the least direct damage, has the most pathetic burst damage – remove his defensive abilities and what’s left? I really don’t think it’s a bug.

So the bug should not be fixed, because in a set up scene, made specifically to identify the bug, you justify it by “the damage done by thief is so high, that the bug should remain” and “the damage made by necro is so low, that the bug should remain”, REALLY? get off of your nonsense.
Here is nothing to argue about, i presented real evidence, it is a bug or a feature, the devs knows better. I gave some feedback about a game bug, i hope devs will take it and fix the bug, or will admit that it is a feature.

Working as intended.

Ill have to test that I swear I have had low health low DS and been one shot in the past.

Maybe not I do use DS as a buffer vs thiefs not that it matters unless they are really bad they will kill me anyway or just go away for 20 seconds and comeback and kill me.

Another bug add it to the list.

So guys I was noticing the other day while in SPvP that sometimes out of nowhere a theif would drop my health down from 26k to 0 in less then one second, giving me essentially zero chance to defend myself. Quite obviously this has to be a bug because this is so broken why would it be in the game? This clearly has to be a bug because there is no way the developers would make something so hilariously over powered a feature. Also because I don’t like the fact that it makes my job harder it must be a bug.

Have no idea if this is a bug or not…. But can’t see why this have to be a bug…. might very well be supposed to be like that….

You should just be happy that you can deal that kind of damage in one hit….. Necro’s deal that damage over 30 seconds… :P You are right though, that doesn’t justify us to have a bug, but we can’t possibly know if it is one or not…..

Way to get off the point of this topic people. This isnt about necros whining (Imagine that, do you guys do anything aside this?) that our damage is poor, its about whether or not the damage we take in DS that is over our current pool should or should not leak into our current HP.

Do another test, but this time use a Ranger, im sure more necros will still complain about the amazing damage those rangers do, but at least it wont have the insta hate thief included.

First of all, Zedekiel, i must thank you for being adequate about the problem, it is a rarity in these forums.
I don’t know how to deal a lot of damage in one hit as a ranger, so i can’t replicate it. But i know how to do it with thief, it is the best profession for replicating this particular bug, i could do it with warrior with eviscerate, but hey, it is harder to set up, so why bother? I had situations where necro had about 5% hp and entered his DS which had also about 5% just to mitigate the backstab, and it did the job.

I wouldn’t believe this is a bug. Death Shroud isn’t an extension on HP, its a completely new HP pool.

Taking a killing blow in Normal form wouldn’t drop you to negative health, it would take you to 0 and down you and taking a killing blow in death shroud would down or ‘kill’ that form taking you back to normal form.

So necros can DS and fall of the highest mountain in the game, and still be alive? no. Guess why?

Zedekiel.3021:

Way to get off the point of this topic people. This isnt about necros whining (Imagine that, do you guys do anything aside this?) that our damage is poor, its about whether or not the damage we take in DS that is over our current pool should or should not leak into our current HP.

Do another test, but this time use a Ranger, im sure more necros will still complain about the amazing damage those rangers do, but at least it wont have the insta hate thief included.

I think you’re missing the point. People are highlighting the fact that just because DS does something beneficial it’s automatically called a bug. They’re also highlighting the fact that the original poster thinks that this supposed “bug” is overpowered, when in reality even if it is a bug, it’s laughable for it to be called overpowered when you look at other factors. Damage and survivability of the necro is absolutely relevant in the argument of whether or not it’s a bug. Unfortunately right now Anet has done a poor job explaining what is a bug and what is a feature, but I think that we can say with reasonable certainty that this is a feature because A ) It’s not overpowered, and B ) It makes sense

iSinner.4285:

So necros can DS and fall of the highest mountain in the game, and still be alive? no. Guess why?

Because an Ele in mistform can’t either?

“Assume a spectral form and gain new skills, turning your life force into health. Entering this form removes other spectral effects.” Following this, it is working as intended. The life force grants another health bar. When it is depleted, it is Death Shroud ending. No matter how much extra is received.

Overkill doesn’t work on your life bar, does it?

Because an Ele in mistform can’t either?

So the damage does not leak into hp because Ele in mistform takes damage when falling? very interesting.

Following this, it is working as intended. The life force grants another health bar. When it is depleted, it is Death Shroud ending. No matter how much extra is received.

I wonder where do you get all the extra information made up by you.

I hope devs will share some light on this, because as i see necros dont have a clue if it is a bug or not.
From my perspective, it is a bug because in other situations, like taking fall damage while in DS, the damage does transfer to hp pool, and i was convinced in Bug compilation thread that damage taken by mobs does transfer to hp pool ,and in pvp situations, it does not.

From GW2 Wiki – “A fall from a sufficient height will instantly put a character into the defeated state.”

It’s not about overflow damage, when you fall from high enough you’re automatically dead which makes sense. It’s obvious why the devs made it like this, otherwise you could exploit DS and mistform in situations like WvW.

samkong has the first part explained.

Death Shroud is its own life bar. When it depletes, you don’t go into a downed state, you just return to normal form. When you have 400hp and that Warrior hits you for 4k, does it take that from your downed state?

If you are looking at “(NB0115) If you enter DS while getting hit by a channeled damaging ability, the damage “bleeds” through to your regular health instead of / in addition to hitting the DS life force pool”, then you must have read it wrong. I have looked over the confirmed and see nothing. The link does not go to a specific page, as I have seen in some post over 6 pages long. It does not state that it is overkill. If this is actually happening, than it is a bug (still awaiting confirmation).

Life Force and your HP pools are completely separate. When you Life Force pool hits 0 you simply exit the Death Shroud. There is no damage carryover as your backstab did damage to the Life Force pool which is not tied to our HP pool. Just for your information while in DS, the necromancer cannot regenerate their HP pool even if they are out of combat. Your HP pool stays right where it was until such time as you exit DS. I have confirmed this in game.

Maybe you should read the Wiki.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Life_force

This is working exactly as intended. It is the necro version of stealth and avoid death.

iSinner.4285:

So necros can DS and fall of the highest mountain in the game, and still be alive? no. Guess why?

As several people have pointed out, fall damage is separate from player damage in the same way normal health is separate from death shroud health. Fall damage is % damage of your health, if it hits 100% you die, simple.

And one of the reasons fall damage is like this is so people dont exploit Death Shrouds second health bar, falling in DS taking damage that would of killed you and having DS absorb it.

If you are looking at “(NB0115)

No, here is the post that i linked above

iSinner.4285 – simple, make a screenshot, since the simple fact that we die from falling if we are in DS with 8% of LF and full hp from a small fall (since it counts LF as a life bar), but a massive attack from a mob still hits you to hp if it takes your DS away.

It is the necro version of stealth and avoid death.

:D thx mate i laughed.
Guys, you can really try to justify it, but i really dont care what you think about it, because you can not read devs mind. What i really care, is what devs think.
If they will tell it is a feature, then they will have to fix the damage done by mobs to not transfer to hp pool, if they think it is a bug, then they need to fix the damage done in pvp to transfer to hp pool.
One way or another, it is a bug, because it works differently in different areas, in pve it transfers to hp pool, in pvp not. One of this is a bug for sure.

/Sigh I see the intelligent discussion is over.

Weakness works differently in different areas IIRC. I’m not sure why you’d be surprised if this didn’t. I wouldn’t put all your money on what the developers say either. The latest patch changed a bug for our elite skills into a feature, only to have a dev reply to me stating that this shouldn’t be happening.

kinderghast.8501:

Plague and Lich Form now correctly state:

“Entering this form destroys all minions and removes spectral effects”

And you guys thought you could use minions, as a Necromancer! What a silly idea!

JonathanSharp.7094:

Three things. <———— Edit!

1) The cake arrived. Thank you.
2) I agree that minions being killed when you go into an elite form is not good. We’re going to find ways to fix it. It feels bad to lose your minions (utility skills) just because you use your elite. We did that change to fix skills being unslotted by going above/below water (which WAS a bug), but we’ll need to find a different way to fix it so that minions, if you just use your elite above water, remain.
3) Death shroud is still good, but not a panacea. We do not feel that, “Oh, it doesn’t matter, they have Death Shroud!” So please don’t think that.

kKagari.6804:

Weakness works differently in different areas IIRC. I’m not sure why you’d be surprised if this didn’t. I wouldn’t put all your money on what the developers say either. The latest patch changed a bug for our elite skills into a feature, only to have a dev reply to me stating that this shouldn’t be happening.

Thats because Devs new way of fixing bugs is to not fix them, such as the Elite skills new tool tips and removing orbs of power instead of fixing fly hacking.

By this logic… Necromancers will be removed from the game soon!

samkong.2719:

/Sigh I see the intelligent discussion is over.

-_- Yep. Didn’t expect it to go very far. Still didn’t answer my question about how his life bar functions, either.

iSinner.4285:

So the bug should not be fixed, because in a set up scene, made specifically to identify the bug, you justify it by “the damage done by thief is so high, that the bug should remain” and “the damage made by necro is so low, that the bug should remain”, REALLY? get off of your nonsense.
Here is nothing to argue about, i presented real evidence, it is a bug or a feature, the devs knows better. I gave some feedback about a game bug, i hope devs will take it and fix the bug, or will admit that it is a feature.

What do you expect? You play the class many players find the hardest to survive against or “hate” the most, we have alot of bugs (maby even the class with the most bugs) and you come here an complain/report a minor bug.

Sure this community is alot bether then other Mmo comunitys but still. But we have our own game bug forum section and mmo rule number 1 is: Dont go to another class forum and complain about some bugs/op and so on. You are just going to get yelled at and nothing good comes to it.

Look at the good side, now you know about this “bug” of yours. Next time you whant to smack a necro with your 8k + instant dmg wait to DS is done. Its not hard to see when we pop DS.

Archmagel.1350:

samkong.2719:

/Sigh I see the intelligent discussion is over.

-_- Yep. Didn’t expect it to go very far. Still didn’t answer my question about how his life bar functions, either.

I think its working as intended. Its a separate life bar that in the same way going below 0 health in normal wouldn’t put you at negative health or take the remaining damage of your downed health, falling below 0 death shroud health wont take it off your normal health like;

You fall below 0 downed health, you die.
You fall below 0 health, your downed.
You fall below 0 death shroud health, it dies.

Didn’t expect it to go very far. Still didn’t answer my question about how his life bar functions, either.

I dont have a life bar in real life, so i did not understand what you were talking about, and i just ignored it.

By this logic… Necromancers will be removed from the game soon!

:D funny

/Sigh I see the intelligent discussion is over.

The only one that even was on topic is Zedekiel.3021, everyone else are just trying to justify what they probably did not even know until they saw this thread.

Ascii.9726:

Archmagel.1350:

samkong.2719:

/Sigh I see the intelligent discussion is over.

-_- Yep. Didn’t expect it to go very far. Still didn’t answer my question about how his life bar functions, either.

I think its working as intended. Its a separate life bar that in the same way going below 0 health in normal wouldn’t put you at negative health or take the remaining damage of your downed health, falling below 0 death shroud health wont take it off your normal health like;

You fall below 0 downed health, you die.
You fall below 0 health, your downed.
You fall below 0 death shroud health, it dies.

Exactly what I was trying to explain to him, but yours is in a neater, easier to understand fashion.

iSinner.4285:

Didn’t expect it to go very far. Still didn’t answer my question about how his life bar functions, either.

I dont have a life bar in real life, so i did not understand what you were talking about, and i just ignored it.

By this logic… Necromancers will be removed from the game soon!

:D funny

/Sigh I see the intelligent discussion is over.

The only one that even was on topic is Zedekiel.3021, everyone else are just trying to justify what they probably did not even know until they saw this thread.

You’re absolutely right, none of us were talking about DS and lifebar mechanics. Nothing we said was relevant. But more importantly do you think people like cats more, or dogs?

You fall below 0 death shroud health, it dies.

And why doesn’t “it” die in pve exactly?

What do you expect?

I expect that this bug will be listed in devs archive for the future fix, or will be flagged as a feature. What people think about thief is irrelevant for this topic, why should i care about how necro is underpowered or overpowered? i dont care at all, you may be as overpowered as you want to be, i dont care. What i care about, is that there is a bug, and it must be fixed.
I am here not to complain, i am here to report a bug. You wanted a discussion, you got it, but i got bored since there is a lot of talking, words words words, and all of it is just people’s opinions. There is no evidence that this is not a bug, and there is no evidence that it is not working as intended, but since it varies from situation to situation, there is a high chance that this might be a bug. Why shouldn’t i report it?
It is important to highlight game bugs, and not people should decide if it is a bug or not, people can only suspect, the ones who decide are devs.
I suspected it is a bug, you are suspecting it is not a bug, i’ve presented evidence and a scenario to replicate it. From this point and on, i only care this to be fixed or called a feature.

i dont ever remember dying in spectral form. I know if my spectral form is done, and have almost nill hp left, i will die in two hits, but never while in spectral form.

I never thought of it as a bug since it makes sense (two different hp bars). But if its a bug, gl getting it fixed.

@iSinner

No, you brought up what you believe to be a bug, you provided evidence.

We provided counter evidence, and examples for why we believe it’s not a bug.

You give us other examples supporting your argument.

We give you evidence why your examples don’t fit current discussion (so far so good).

You dismiss our evidence with no counter evidence or reasoning, you attack our credibility.

Things spiral out of control.

I am glad that you think you provided ANY evidence. I am glad also that you are not a dev. Thank you for your attention.
PS you still have not touched the pve aspect of DS, so please share some light why the dmg in DS does transfer in pve?

iSinner.4285:

I am glad that you think you provided ANY evidence. I am glad also that you are not a dev. Thank you for your attention.
PS you still have not touched the pve aspect of DS, so please share some light why the dmg in DS does transfer in pve?

On the contrary, the only evidence you’ve shown is doing more damage then DS has in Health doesn’t take it off regular health, i haven’t seen any pictures of this not happening in PvE.

This is a quick test i did on Death Shroud on a mob:

As you can see from the video, i took a 1630 hit when my DS life was pretty much done and it wasn’t taken off my Normal Health. (screenshot is to show my HP at full to show no damage was done.)

@Ascii

Thank you for conducting research and finding evidence, Unfortunately in iSinner’s eyes this still means nothing.

It’s obviously not intended, and I hope it’s milked for everything it’s worth until the developers notice it. Every dog has their day, right?

As you can see from the video, i took a 1630 hit when my DS life was pretty much done and it wasn’t taken off my Normal Health. (screenshot is to show my HP at full to show no damage was done.)

I am glad you took some time to present real facts beside just words, this is serious approach, i love it. So this only means that “that guy in bugs compilation thread” is just a liar. What a revelation. Dr. House is right one more time, everyone lies. Especially the ones on the internet. (and now you can understand why i have little to no trust in words and opinions, especially on forums, especially when one side is interested in the bug not being fixed)

Since the pve and pvp aspect is consistent, the chances that this is a bug are low. I thank you one more time for serious approach, others should learn from you.

To everyone else, less QQ, more PEW PEW ©.

Terok.7315:

It’s obviously not intended, and I hope it’s milked for everything it’s worth until the developers notice it. Every dog has their day, right?

I’m not trying to be confrontational, but why is it obviously not intended? Obviously until the devs come out and flat out make a statement on it we cant be for sure either way, but I’m curious as to why you think it’s not intended.

@Ascii
Mother of all the kittens. I really need to get a recording program. I have been trying screenshots for over half an hour. XD I have them though!

What is it with people posting trollbait in this forum lately?

First TanMan with his AxeBuild and insults, now this.
Maybe it’s a bug. maybe it’s not, but seriously, why all the agression to people who simply just beg to differ?

wow,
now I really wish thief gets nerf to the ground after 15th patch.

Its a second health bar that is slightly easier to heal up so we can absorb hits since we have no form of defense or invincible like other class’s. We have DS to take that hit every 10 seconds. That is a our answer to not having anything to migrate damage and to be honest its not that good of one ether since we lose all of our other skills in that form.

People complain about Deathshroud being underpowered, but look at how this thief went nuts and started hallucinating bugs over Deathshroud absorbing his backstab. That must be worth something.

A thief complaining about a necro (what a surprise)… sorry, mate, working as intended.

samkong.2719:
I’m not trying to be confrontational, but why is it obviously not intended? Obviously until the devs come out and flat out make a statement on it we cant be for sure either way, but I’m curious as to why you think it’s not intended.

If this is really happening. it seems unintended that a minuscule amount of life force is able to shield such a high amount of damage without it bleeding over into the necromancers actual health pool. Especially considering the ease of getting the little amount of LF required. Just doesn’t seem balanced…

Gah, I had trouble writing that last sentence considering what the OP plays.

Edit: You know what? The hell do I know. The devs said we are suppose to be the “attrition based” class, right?

Damage taken while up doesn’t bleed over into downed.

Death Shroud used to be a special downed state for Necromancers.

This makes it not surprising to me that Death Shroud can ablate a larger hit than it has points left.

…so unless the Devs decided to change it; working as intended most likely.

Ascii.9726:

iSinner.4285:

So necros can DS and fall of the highest mountain in the game, and still be alive? no. Guess why?

As several people have pointed out, fall damage is separate from player damage in the same way normal health is separate from death shroud health. Fall damage is % damage of your health, if it hits 100% you die, simple.

And one of the reasons fall damage is like this is so people dont exploit Death Shrouds second health bar, falling in DS taking damage that would of killed you and having DS absorb it.

And also to avoid this old MMO classic:
http://www.clichequest.com/index.php?pos=420

Haligator.9615:

People complain about Deathshroud being underpowered, but look at how this thief went nuts and started hallucinating bugs over Deathshroud absorbing his backstab. That must be worth something.

Haha, my natural response to seeing a Thief stealthing or stealing is to-hit F1 and sit in Death Shroud with Retaliation and Fury, Life Transferring.

Death Shroud has its own HP bar, a separate one that isn’t in any way an extension of your original HP pool. When you do enough damage that kills DS, it simply kills DS. Should it damage the original HP pool? The attack wasn’t aimed at that, so I don’t know what the issue is here.